Future of Russian Government

[deccie]

Just FYI, I don't think all classes of chemical weapons would classify as a WMD. I won't go into details, but does a stink bomb count?

Battlefields of WW1 are still filled up with old chemical munitions ready to be dug up.  Has it degraded? .. well they still have warning signs everywhere but not one guard in sight. 

It would be interesting to know what types of agents were found.. maybe that is the secret part.

It's worse than that. There are many dumps in the oceans around the world. Off the coast of Australia, off the coast of the US and the UK. Generally they don't cause a problem. Until some trawler brings up something in a fishing net.... 

[deccie]

For those that think UN inspectors will bury WMDs without neutralizing them and film the location on camera, you need to think more. Besides exposing the location of the burial on camera for terrorists to recognize, environmental conditions change and what is buried now may turn up in 50 years. The UN may not have done a good inspection job but those guys are smarter than that when they found and want to discard a dangerous weapon.

Billy, I said the shells were intact not that they had not worked on them to render them useless as a viable weapon. I specifically said that I was not aware of the processes they applied to the weapons before burial. However, one comment I'd make. Those inspectors were wearign full hazard suits so they weren't exactly taking chances with the left overs.

I found this link particularly interesting even if it is 2004. It seems Billy the science of chemical weapons disposal is an imprecise one at best even for the good old US of A.

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issues/2004/March/weapons.asp

[deccie]

For those that think UN inspectors will bury WMDs without neutralizing them and film the location on camera, you need to think more. Besides exposing the location of the burial on camera for terrorists to recognize, environmental conditions change and what is buried now may turn up in 50 years. The UN may not have done a good inspection job but those guys are smarter than that when they found and want to discard a dangerous weapon.

Well then Billy, perhaps you should worry about what is in your own back yard then?

According to "Chemical Weapons Destruction and Explosive Waste/ Unexploded Ordnance
Remediation" by  Robert Noyes disposal of chemical munitions by burial was a very common disposal method until 1977 and such burials are exempt from the Current Chemical Weapons treaty as long as such burials remain undisturbed. Clearly your own scientists and diplomats beleive there is a difference between an old munition past it's use by date and an ongoing program.

[BC]

Here is another resource for those interested (or willing to listen).  Has a nice timeline type report.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/weapindex.htm

I am not in the 'know', but I certainly remember that the UN inspectors did set up cameras watching critical materials and equipment until they could later be disposed of.  Burial and installing cameras to watch over the site would probably be quite in line.  I'm pretty sure secure satellite connections were used to transmit the images.

I also remember nearing the beginning of the war that the inspectors were pleading for a bit more time to find a few more leftovers.  As indicated in the reports above and upthread they were indeed way ahead of the game, but US patience wore out and IIRC basically ordered the UN inspectors to get out while their bodies were still intact.

Back to RU Government,  I wonder if the situation is like this regarding the 'new' arms race:

The US remains armed to get what they need.
RU is rebuilding their capabilities to keep what they got.

[Mir]

If you have a big bully fighting against you what better counter than to have another big bully fighting for you.

Exactly

And when you are walking along a street somewhere in FSU and a beggar asks you for money, he/she will do anything to please you. Wave your flag, tell you that yours is the best country in the world (even if you are from Iraq), tell you that you are the most handsome, kind, generous sod etc. on earth. Do you think he really means what he says (just to get something from you)? Do you think he really likes you?

[BC]

Some background here:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6738055.stm

Bush greeted as hero in Albania
Albanian President Alfred Moisiu (left) and US President George W Bush in Tirana
Mr Bush wants to show solidarity with Europe's newest democracies
President George W Bush has become the first US leader to visit Albania, where he enjoyed a hero's welcome.
......
The Balkan country is a staunch ally in America's "war on terror" and Mr Bush met Albanian soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
.....
Albania backs the US-led invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. It has tripled its troop numbers in Afghanistan to 140, and has about 120 troops in Iraq.

[timothe]

I think I referred to your ilk as Bushistas. Before that you were accusing me of calling you a wife beater, weren't you? This is a bulletin board, Timmy. Although more restrained than some.

You were inferring that those who supported Bush were backwoods hicks.  You never added any facts to the insults, so I just assumed that your one of those Oprah watching men who act on feelings rather than logic.  Which gal from the View is your favorite?  Joy? Do you miss Rosie?

[Mishenka]

With Putin staying in power indefinately,  and Belarus rejoining the Russian Federation soon, we will be looking at  the Russian version of "back to the future" with the Re - unification of the Russia, or USSR "AS IT WERE" or once was and shall be agan. It may well have fewer countries with it, but still will become a economic power to be reccond with in the region, if China and Russia have their way. You will see many more alliances built by Putin in the near future. Sadly the people of Russia will not see any improvement in their third world lifestyles, just as China's people continue in poverty as the Chinese Gov GNP flourishes. The selfish governments keep it all to themselves.

  Time will tell, but mark my words today and read the HEADLINES tomorrow. Russia will soon be call "United Russia"  but will hardly be even close to United or Democratic. Lets just call it going backwards 90 years in time. The population will continue to fall as people leave by the thousands, just like they have been for over the last 30 years. Can you blame them? No, and the result, will be People taking to the streets in protest, more arrests and disapearance of people who "disagree" with the current powers that be and the certain FALL of the proud, the arrogant Putin! is days are numbered in the scope of the new world order. Keep your eyes on the EU, and Euro, the new world leader that will come out of it. Middle East confliict will increase. "The times, they are a changin"  and very rapidly.

[Mishenka]

Then again, the more things change, the more they stay the same,, so figure its same old, s--t  differnt day.

[Bruce]

The best one source I read on Russia here is the magazine called "The Economist."  It predicted exactly what has happened (Medvedev was one of two listed as probable successors) and has excellent insights on Russia. 

[Rvrwind]

An the winner issssss....
Medvedev by a full length!!!
Considering his reputation for being weak kneed he was the obvious choice. He & Putin have worked together for years & Putin can control him, which is the senario that Putin needs at this jucture.
It may not go back to the Cold War senario but things are deffinitly not getting better, especially for foreigners wishing to visit & integrate into Russia, in fact they are getting worse, which unless the tide is stopped will isolate Russia from many other countries.
They need leaders that are not paranoid about what is going on elsewhere & look to their own country & people.

[Misha]

We still have a few months before the elections. Who knows what other cards Putin has up his sleeve. Union with Belarus with new constitution and elimination term limits? Meetings are now being held and who knows what will be announced in the next couple of days.

[Mir]

Well the British Council has been ordered to wind up their operation by the New Year. The Russians have accused them of being engage in illegal activities and are retaliating to expulsion of Russian diplomats from London.
It is likely that there will now be retaliations from Britain and it might end up with no British consulate in Russia and vice versa.
So Jazzy, better get your visa sorted soon.

[Bruno]

An the winner issssss....
Medvedev by a full length!!!

"The longtime aide tapped by Vladimir V. Putin to be his successor as president of Russia declared Tuesday that he wanted Mr. Putin to be his prime minister, offering the clearest indication yet of how Mr. Putin plans to maintain firm control over the Kremlin after his term ends next spring."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/world/europe/12russia.html

Seem that the real winner is Putin !!!

"As prime minister, Mr. Putin could very well overshadow Mr. Medvedev, turning him into the kind of figurehead president found in parliamentary systems like Germany’s or Italy’s."

[Shadow]

"The longtime aide tapped by Vladimir V. Putin to be his successor as president of Russia declared Tuesday that he wanted Mr. Putin to be his prime minister, offering the clearest indication yet of how Mr. Putin plans to maintain firm control over the Kremlin after his term ends next spring."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/world/europe/12russia.html

Seem that the real winner is Putin !!!

"As prime minister, Mr. Putin could very well overshadow Mr. Medvedev, turning him into the kind of figurehead president found in parliamentary systems like Germany’s or Italy’s."

Bruno do not spoil the plot. Putin would be frowned upon if he reformed the Presidential election at this time. But if he became Prime Minister and reformed the government to make the President more ceremonial, with an unlimited re-election possibility for the Prime Minister not as many people will protest.

[BC]

Bruno do not spoil the plot. Putin would be frowned upon if he reformed the Presidential election at this time. But if he became Prime Minister and reformed the government to make the President more ceremonial, with an unlimited re-election possibility for the Prime Minister not as many people will protest.

Considering the relatively short time the RU government has existed,, Putin remaining somewhat or de facto in power is probably a positive aspect.  IMHO RU can only profit from a long period of stability in government.

As long as the majority of the population supports this my question is 'why not?".

[edit]

I'm sure some will cry foul as to Putin's reign as prime minister but will forget that the US did not limit the term of presidents until 1951. (22nd ammendment to the Constitution)

Could Bush be re-elected as Vice President?

Think Goose/Gander

[DKMM]

Are you crazy?  Putin and his KGB buddies are robbing Russia blind.  How is it that those with the BILLIONS happen to be from his inner circle?  We are talking resource barons here with the Kremlin having partial control over their companies.  Look no further than the annointed president, he's the chairman of Gazprom!

Its funny, my girl told me a month ago that they won't elect their next president, he will be chosen for them.  I thought she was kidding!

[BC]

Are you crazy?  Putin and his KGB buddies are robbing Russia blind.  How is it that those with the BILLIONS happen to be from his inner circle?  We are talking resource barons here with the Kremlin having partial control over their companies.  Look no further than the annointed president, he's the chairman of Gazprom!

 I heard the same thing about Bush and Cheney except that their roles are reversed.

Funny world isn't it...

[DKMM]

Dude, take the 5 top companies in Russia, who is running them?  Who owns the stock?  You will find Putin easily mixed up in all that.

Bush Cheney?  they aren't even a blip on Wall Street

[BC]

Dude, take the 5 top companies in Russia, who is running them?  Who owns the stock?  You will find Putin easily mixed up in all that.

And? what's wrong with that? - especially if the populace supports him.

They seem to be locking up the country's most valuable resource.  With countries around the world in a frenzy jockeying for position as it regards access to oil, I'm sure they will do everything to protect it.

The test will be whether he uses the acquired power and assets for or against or his own people.

RU as other oil rich countries are flanked by energy hungry giants.. US, China, India, etc with considerable military power, some of which have policies dictating they will 'not be denied access to energy resources'.  In other words if you cut us off we will just go get your oil.

Maybe he is just being prudent.

[DKMM]

What's wrong with that?  he is giving the riches and resources out to his buddies!  It is stealing it from the rest of Russia.  The reason he is good at it is he is only stealing a slice of the national wealth.  The rest of the country is benefitting too so they dont' care that things should actually be better than they already are.

[BC]

http://www.gazprom.ru/eng/articles/article14964.shtml

I see nothing wrong here.

Really, if he own a percentage of the stock along with 460,000 others then good for him.  Is that illegal, or even morally wrong?

I fail to see your point, unless it is only to b!tch and complain.

[Misha]

http://www.gazprom.ru/eng/articles/article14964.shtml

I see nothing wrong here.

Really, if he own a percentage of the stock along with 460,000 others then good for him.  Is that illegal, or even morally wrong?

I fail to see your point, unless it is only to b!tch and complain.

Well, I have read some reports that values Putin's wealth at around $40 billion dollars. Morally, I believe it is wrong to pilfer the state's revenues to enrich you and your colleagues.

[BC]

Yeah.. all kinds of reports..

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSL2926216120071029

[Misha]

You actually believe what "a Kremlin spokesman" says about how much Putin is worth? Of course he is not going to openly declare how much money he has stashed away with the help of friends.