Character Problems with RM and RW

[Gator]

VWRW,

The “husband” is definitely part of a family.  The RW I got to know did not have a husband, hence my omission.

The Cossack woman I dated for over a year relegated a husband to the role of “provider” and “lover” and “social companion”.  This concerned me as she seemed disinterested in having a deeper relationship in which the husband and wife are close friends and partners in life. 

Our language barrier made it impossible to be true friends.  It may not have mattered given her nature.  An important clue - she had been married three times before turning 40.  The reasoning for each of her divorces seemed plausible, yet three different husbands shows that she never developed a relationship with staying power, perhaps a result of a self-fulfilling prophesy that men can not be trusted .  Who cares?  Not me.  In her defense, her children were her paramount interest and concern.

In contrast, my Moscow woman wants her husband to be a true friend.  Friendship takes a lot of time to develop, and I feel that we have reached such, we her calling me her best friend. 

[KenC]

I do assume that all FSU women who would seek a man abroad have some kind of character problem.

VWRW,
Wow! Your comment floors me!  Care to elaborate on why all fsu women open to an international relationship have character problems?
KenC

[BillyB]

And yes, guys feel exempt from punishment.  As kids, they could punch a girl and never be scolded by their adoring Moms.  As adults, they can hit on women in the presence of their wives and refuse to be reproached.  If nagged, they would get defensive and leave.   

Although women are strong, it's a man's world in the FSU. I heard that an employer could put an ad out that he's hiring and instead of listing required skills, he could list the physical characteristics of the secretary he's looking for such as she must have big boobs and be blond and he won't get in trouble.

I remember a girl on a forum said she and her friend went to apply for a job and the employer and his friend wanted the two to join them in their hot tub. She was excited at first about getting a job but was quickly disappointed when she understood the motives of the boss.

In Pike's trip report, he was showing teenage girls some photos and teenage boys would try to play with the girls nipples and one boy put his hand up a girls skirt. These are things that probably happen everyday and the boys feel there's no consequences to their actions.

There are a lot of FSU people living in and around my city. Many young men do thing they're invincible and probably brought up that way that someone(parents) are going to protect them. They will learn the hard way here in America. If you go into traffic court in my area, half the people there are young FSU men and there's a full time Russian interpreter on hand. But the older generation of FSU people, both men and women, seem to be better people, more responsible and work harder. Maturity could play a part in that.

Not all RW are angels either. Many are spoiled and it's not all the RM's fault. FSUrookie was thought to be stingy according to some of his former finacee's friends and associates. He gave her a ring and $3000 for her education. But what is that compared to foreign men who come over there and buy women apartments? Yes, there are many foreign men that will throw their money around to catch a hottie. When women get used to that kind of attention, they get spoiled quickly. But the good news is that a good woman will never get spoiled.

[Gator]

I think I did this topic a disservice by using the term "Character Problems" in the title.  

Our long departed observer living in the FSU, Andrewfi, always said that women who forsake their peer group to seek marriage with a foreigner do have problems (as if he were perfect).  On the contrary, the few annoying character traits that I have experienced with RW/UW are insignificant compared to the many positive aspects of their character.

A question for VWRW, what does a RW looks for in a foreign man that she can not expect to find in a RM.   This may not be a character flaw, but nevertheless a reason why such women are different.  

[BillyB]

Our long departed observer living in the FSU, Andrewfi, always said that women who forsake their peer group to seek marriage with a foreigner do have problems (as if he were perfect).  

Andrew just want to hurt the feelings of men who are pursuing or married an FSU woman. Andrew himself left England and his peers for Estonia. But who's he to say who has character flaws or not? He has no problem associating with the women in the commercial sex industry but yet he is quick to insult all FSU women who is willing to consider a foreign man for marriage as having character issues. Edit to add, he even implied RW are selling themselves as postitutes do putting them in the same category.

We must judge each person as an individual. Who has better character, a woman who stays in the FSU no matter what opportunity arises or a woman who wants to improve her and her future childrens life by moving to a better and more stable environment? Depending on her motives and methods of getting to a better environment, only then we should question a woman's character. Some women understand to put their future kids in a good environment, they must marry a man for love, not just move to his country. It's important kids are in a loving environment including the love they observe from their father and mother. Other women will marry any mule that will bring her over to more prosporous pastures and they think money is the key to their happiness more than a good husband.

But if a RW will "never" consider a RM again, then I would think she probably does have character issues like the guys who swear off American women forever. Maybe a RW's traumatized by many bad experiences but ultimately she is the one that chose all those bad men to date and have relations with. It's kind of like the women here that say they could never find a decent man yet they attract or seem to be attracted to the bad boys. If you ever date a woman that has only dated men with issues, then run. Either she's one and the same and attracts similar, or she's not smart enough to figure out how to avoid bad guys and find decent guys.

[ScottinCrimea]

I was very surprised how prevalent it is for RM to have another woman on the side.  I think the only place I saw worse was in South America, where it seemed having a mistress was not only accepted, it was expected.  In many cases it is a status symbol for RM, showing that they can afford this "luxury".  It took a long time for my wife to understand that I not only don't have anyone on the side, but that I neither want or even think about it.  She had her first husband cheat on her, her father has cheated on her mother, and most of her acquaintenances have the same situation, so I understand why a man who is so different in his thinking is a new concept to her, albeit one she is very happy with. this is one reason she stopped looking for a husband altogether for awhile, because it was not something she was willing to tolerate.

We have one female acquaintenance who was the "other woman" to a married, well-off RM.  She is in her forties, which maybe bucks the trend.  She would have sex with him only on occasion, sometimes going months without, until she felt the urge or sensed that he had the emotional (not physical) need.  Most of their time spent together was in her home talking. He was extremely generous with her, buying luxuries for her and her daughters that she could never have afforded herself, even with her well-paying job.  She didn't want him to leave his wife and wanted no more than this arrangement.  She finally broke it off with him when he began to press her for more, wanting to leave his wife and be with her.  This seems to be very different than what has been described in this thread and in other places, but points out that it isn't just about rich RM seeking young playtoys to satisfy their animal urges.

[Misha]

In many cases it is a status symbol for RM, showing that they can afford this "luxury". 

Afford is right. I knew a woman once who had a rich "sponsor" and he paid her roughly $500 per month. She decided to have a baby, and he told her quite frankly that she would be doing it for herself and he would not recognize the child as his legitimate child. Eventually, he moved on, and presumably found himself a younger woman to sponsor. If $500 was the going rate then (10 years ago), I can only imagine what a "sponsor" must pay now in Moscow for the "luxury".

[vwrw]

what does a RW looks for in a foreign man that she can not expect to find in a RM.   This may not be a character flaw, but nevertheless a reason why such women are different.  

I would like to ask Lily and Blues Fairy to answer this question either.

I will not answer for all FSU women. I will answer only for myself.  Trustworthiness is the main thing that attracts me to American men. Both my current man and my ex-man very quickly earned my trust. I know/feel/understand I can rely on my man when I create plans for near or not near future. I never so much trust or rely on any Russian man, even that one with who I lived for five year (even though he always kept all his promises) It is much more difficult for RM to be faithful and good provider because he was brought up and live in Russia.


First time when I said to myself – “WOW! IT IS SO GREAT THAT I WAS BORN AS A WOMAN!” was in America. And ever since, by no means, I would be in relationship with RM.
In relationship with RM I felt I am their partner, in relationship with WM I feel woman and I like it a lot.

[Lily]

I would like to ask Lily and Blues Fairy to answer this question either.

As for me, I already wrote on RWD about why I generally prefer WM over RM. RM differ from WM like people who were born and raised in prison differ from people who were born free. RM were raised to live in abnormal conditions, whereas WM used to live in normal conditions. This explains differences in mentality. This results in different personalities, in very general terms, and ultimately makes WM more attractive to me.

In short, I want WM because I like them

again, all conditions being equal, I'd prefer a RM just because neither he nor I have to make that lots of efforts to enjoy each other's company, but the conditions are not equal.

Of course there are freaks and mishaps on the West, too (I learned it mostly from the sites, otherwise I could think that all WM resemble my western colleagues )...but I tend to speak about people of my league.

[Blues Fairy]

I prefer 93% perfect, 98% compatible, 100% gentlemen regardless of their country of origin.    I have found one - and he happens to be a US citizen.  He could be a Chukcha for all I care.   

[WmGO]

       One thing that I find very interesting about this thread is that Gator is painting a GROSSLY overly rosey picture of FSUW - while the FSUW themselves are pointing out the sad REALITY that many if not most FSUW have a lot of serious character flaws/issues/problems. By his own admission, Gator has only dated a few FSUW and has had little experience outside the dating realm = not an authority.

For all the newbies, lookers, seekers and lurkers, they are well advised to play close attention to what the FSUW are revealing here. And I will take the opportunity to elaborate:

1. Russian culture has always been on the hard side of fundamental morality. If anyone is even remotely familiar with Russian literature they will know that a common theme is commentary on the *common* corrupt nature of Russian people and society (not all people but it's pervasiveness). Totalitarian Communism excacerbated this reality (see Lily's comments about growing up in a "prison", i.e. abnormal society). If someone has done there long term homework on Russian history and culture they will also be aware of these historical realities.

2. Adultry is so common as to be considered normal - by the WOMEN as much as the men. It takes two to tango and this should be kept in mind on the subject of attitudes and actions in regards to adultry, having "sponsors" etc.

3. To lie, engage in deceit and deception for personal gain and advantage is COMMON amongst women (as well as men). It is not considered to be a moral wrong as it is in Western society.

4.  The word "divorce" will roll off the tounge of an FSUW so fast a WM's head will spin. Most FSUW do not have the kind of "traditional family values" that agencies and other propaganda machines claim. Fact is, the nuclear family is about as existant in Russia and Ukraine as it is in the Black community in the United States (not much). FSUW are generally inclined to initiate  divorce for much more flimsy reasons as compared to WW.

5. The dog eat dog mentality of most FSUPeople does not lend itself well to having, possessing, acquiring or keeping fundamental moral values, convictions and actions.

6. There is a large percentage of FSUW that think much, much too highly of themselves - as if they have a *right* to act in a certain uppity, vain, materialistic and demanding/expecting way - even though they have done nothing in life - conquered no mountains, championed no cause, been noone's hero. Please note that some of the other FSUW posters have commented or alluded to this fact.

7. There is a much higher rate of various mental illnesses in the FSU than elsewhere (not exactly on topic, but relevant - a LOT of ladies with mental issues are on the websites).

8. True colors: how does a FSUW treat a WM once she has decided that she has no romantic interest in him? Reality: the vast overwhelming majority of FSUW consider it acceptable to use the man for anything and everything she can get out of him - money, clothers, dinners, etc = bad character.

     The biggest propaganda is that Russian and Ukrainian are the "world's greatest women". This is balogna. A small MINORITY of Russian women fall into that catergory - along with percentages of women from every country and  nationality in the world.


NOW, just about all the WM reading this will make some a**sumptions about various things I have said here........should I just predict them now....or wait? .........Ah, heck , the world is too darn predictable..............I guess I will wait...........

[WmGO]

1.  A family in Russia is almost tribal; friends are important but family are the only people a person can trust.  In the time of need, family is summoned.  Important decisions are made as a family.   

3.  The single Russian mothers I have met are very devoted to their children and will sacrifice without complaint .............

These are exactly the cultural norm in America.

And as far as social activities are concerned, most Americans do such activities with family as without - it just depends on the nature of the activity. AND MORE ON POINT, in Russia and Ukraine, social activities might *slightly* more revolve around family - BUT that is because of the lack of true civil society in the FSU and the fact that people for historical realities just don't trust non family members that much. IF they are more "tribal" it is ONLY because of how corrupt and dog eat dog their society is - so it is not some "noble" thing - it is nothing more than survival mechanism.........

[ScottinCrimea]

WmGo, let me be the first to respond.  You may be surprised to hear that for the most part I agree with the ideas behind your points.  But I think that, while you feel that Gator is painting a "GROSSLY overly rosy picture of FSUW, you are painting a GROSSLY black picture of them.  You have swung the pendulum way too far to the other side in both my opinion and my experience.  You temper none of your statements with anything positive, as some of these issues of culture promote positive traits as well as negative ones.

I just have one question:  If you truly believe what you have written here, why are you pursuing an FSUW?

[Gator]

WmGo,

Wow!  Interesting post, and thought provoking.

The primary thing I have to say is that you need to enroll in my new school, "How to Find Good RW/UW"!  You definitely need help if what you have described is your history of experiences in Russia.  Do you select women based only on beauty?  Do you stress education in your selection of women?  Do you avoid women with provocative photos?  Do you study profiles and correspondence for signs of sincerity?

Or maybe I have been lucky with 15 RW/UW and two in particular (so lucky that I should buy a lottery ticket)?  They are probably older than the women you have dated and hence more mature.

Perhaps you just rub these women wrong (they are not one to take an insult lightly)?

Is this your personal experience with women, or are you extrapolating the ills of communism to FSUW in general, and your broad brush is painting all FSUW regardless of individual differences?  Maybe many FSUW in seeking western men are sick of what you have described and wish to get away from it?

I will agree with the following points you made:

-  the nuclear family is about as existant in Russia and Ukraine as it is in the Black community in the United States.  Such is indeed the case, especially among the FSUW with agencies.

-  It takes two to tango and this should be kept in mind on the subject of attitudes and actions in regards to adultry, having "sponsors" etc. Sadly, some women accept sponsorship out of necessity to provide for their children.

I disagree the most with:

-  There is a large percentage of FSUW that think much, much too highly of themselves - as if they have a *right* to act in a certain uppity, vain, materialistic and demanding/expecting way - even though they have done nothing in life - conquered no mountains, championed no cause, been noone's hero. Please note that some of the other FSUW posters have commented or alluded to this fact.   I have not found FSUW to be self-aggrandizing.

-  To lie, engage in deceit and deception for personal gain and advantage is COMMON amongst women (as well as men). It is not considered to be a moral wrong as it is in Western society.   I would never do business in Russia, and that says a lot; however, among RW I have seen much honesty.  I have had my suspicions on occasion, but less than with AW (in my book "deceit" includes volunteering what should be known).  Perhaps i am jaded, because I have spent much time in Iran and Arab cultures.

-  True colors: how does a FSUW treat a WM once she has decided that she has no romantic interest in him? Reality: the vast overwhelming majority of FSUW consider it acceptable to use the man for anything and everything she can get out of him - money, clothers, dinners, etc = bad character.  I have been in positions where RW could have taken advantage of me; they did not.


Points that you make that may be true but you have no basis for expressing:

There is a much higher rate of various mental illnesses in the FSU than elsewhere (not exactly on topic, but relevant - a LOT of ladies with mental issues are on the websites).  I know of one FSUW diagnosed as bipolar to the point where she hears voices, etc.  Others do not have time to be depressed; it is a luxury of the Western world.



 

[vwrw]

From WmGO: FSUW themselves are pointing out the sad REALITY that many if not most FSUW have a lot of serious character flaws/issues/problems.

vwrw: How many FSUW pointed out the sad reality to you…one, three, ten women? To my mind if one needs a doctor it means s/he has a serious character flaw/issue/problem; people who have a LOT OF SERIOUS character flaws/issues/problems should be isolated… do you feel that many if not most FSUW should be isolated?

From WmGO: By his own admission, Gator has only dated a few FSUW and has had little experience outside the dating realm = not an authority.

vwrw: How many FSUW did you dated? Should we consider you to be an authority regarding FSUPeople?  Do you have a lot of first hand experience with FSU people? Or most of your knowledge about them is extracted from forums like this one?

I am sorry that you experienced something bad during communication with FSUPeople which now does not let you to remain objective and influences on how you perceive FSUPeople and everything what is connected with them.
 

[Turboguy]

There have been some lists of character flaws of Russian women here both by RW and AM.  I think there is one thing that is being missed in looking at those lists.  Yes, RW can have each of those flaws.   If all RW had all those flaws they would not likely be that desirable as wives but that is not the case.   Some may have none, some one or two and some a few more.   Most everyone in the world has some character flaws.   We are not perfect. 

I am sure a lot of men go out looking for the perfect woman.   They don't exist.   We may find someone who is perfect for us but a perfect man or perfect woman is impossible.   When you love someone then it is the flaws and imperfections that make them who they are and what others could see as an imperfection is just part what you love.  I agree with Gator that RW are very special and have a lot more to offer a man than AW do. 

[Blues Fairy]

If anyone is even remotely familiar with Russian literature they will know that a common theme is commentary on the *common* corrupt nature of Russian people and society (not all people but it's pervasiveness).

(...)

3. To lie, engage in deceit and deception for personal gain and advantage is COMMON amongst women (as well as men). It is not considered to be a moral wrong as it is in Western society.

Wow.  
Please be so kind as to share the sources of your information.  I happen to be remotely familiar with Russian literature and culture and have noticed no such statements as you seem to refer to.  

It would be interesting to know which fictionary characters exactly prompted you to generalize about the *common* corrupt nature of Russian people and society.  

[ScottinCrimea]

Just imagine if you were personally tagged with every character flaw possible in the American male.  That's basically what WmGO has done to each and every FSUW.

Again, with this attitude I question why he is even searching for a FSUW, but it definitely confirms why he has yet to find one who will stay with him.

[groovlstk]

I've dated dozens of FSU women and I have to reluctantly admit that I've met enough that conform with WmGo's general description to say that his post should be required reading for newbies, if only as an antidote to the "traditional women" garbage that agencies spew. I don't think his post tags every FSU woman, but a specific subset that most naive Western men dismiss by saying "well, there are women just like that in the US" when they hook up with one. Not true, at least in terms of sheer numbers. As we say, "for every stereotype there's a prototype..."

If this observation is offensive or unsettling to you new guys, feel free to turn my observation around and question my dating choices or methods; however, during my search the vast majority of girls I met were through supposedly reputable agencies. That in itself is an entire other can of worms that I think most here would rather avoid opening, given the bashing that Thor takes every time he cautions new guys against using agencies. (That said, I don't champion any specific method because I don't believe there's any "clean" channel of meeting FSU women; there are women like FSURookie's girl in ever pool, so be prepared to get dirty if you are at this long enough.)

I remember on my first trip to Ukraine... regardless of how much I read beforehand, I was unprepared to see how hard life was for most residents. Sure they had color TVs, mobile phones, modern transportation systems, etc. But everyone seemed so grim and tired and ceaselessly working to keep their heads above water. I realized I was being condescending and typically American in my observations, but I couldn't help but think that most residents had boring, repetitive, hardscrabble lives with little time for leisure or enjoyment outside of sharing the odd bottle of vodka with friends.

In retrospect, I couldn't have been more wrong. I say this with caution in hopes that I don't offend anyone, but it's God's truth: If you make enough friends in the FSU or learn enough about your gf's extended family/friends/co-workers/acquaintances, you will very likely uncover a Faulkneresque labyrinth of adultery, suicide, alcoholism, mental illness, and the sort of familial betrayal that would seem unfathomable outside of the context of those crappy Latin American soaps that Russians love to watch. I heard something once that pretty much sums it up: "there is no unforgiveable sin to a Russian person except for leading a boring life."

Obviously there are many FSU women who aren't like this, my wife being exhibit A. I think the temptation for young women to fall into the trappings of an amoral life (please note I use "amoral" rather than "immoral") are much higher than for Western women. So when you find a RW who has resisted the sort of life some of her weaker acquaintances lead, you have found a genuine diamond.

[Mir]

WMGo's observations may or may not be applicable to the majority of FSU women, some might say the same about people all over Eastern Europe, Turkey, Middle East etc. (The Byzantine frame of mind?), still I fail to understand how Russian literature in anyway glorifies bad character any more then compareable literature of any other country/nation/culture?

[WmGO]

WmGo, let me be the first to respond.  You may be surprised to hear that for the most part I agree with the ideas behind your points.  But.......  You have swung the pendulum way too far to the other side in both my opinion and my experience. 

Well, maybe just a little bit. Just a wee, wee bit. But it is a lot
more realistic than the agency typy hype that is being flung around here.
And it is a lot more in accord with what the FSUW posters have been saying.

I just have one question:  If you truly believe what you have written here, why are you pursuing an FSUW?

Remember when I said the world is too darn predictable? This is exactly what
I was referring to: irrelevant assumptions that don't focus on the substance of the topic but try to turn it around personally on the poster  .........nye stoit. I notice Gator also has
some of the same incorrect assumptions that I predicted would be the response - instead of addressing the substance there are multiple (incorrect)  a**umptions
that try to personalize the topic as opposed to addressing substance (human nature is so darn predictable - especially on this forum)............

***The only thing that matters
is that WM understand that it is only a small minority of Russian and Ukrainian women that fall into the category of "the world's greatest women."  WM need to beware
of this reality so they can approach their endeavour fully informed of the realities
and pitfalls.

Gator, sorry but I am out of time. I will respond later.....

[Gator]

WmGO

I notice Gator also has some of the same incorrect assumptions that I predicted would be the response - instead of addressing the substance there are multiple (incorrect)  a**umptions that try to personalize the topic as opposed to addressing substance (human nature is so darn predictable - especially on this forum)............

 
??? ??? ???

I understand that you are out of time.  When you do have time, please identify my "predictable, incorrect assumptions". 

I try to keep an open mind, but my position is based not on assumptions but my direct experience from dating mostly successful, somewhat older RW (early 40s as an average).  Perhaps my experience as an older man differs from that of younger men chasing young hotties.  Yet each of my dates were young hotties at one time and I have trouble believing each went through a catharsis.

[ScottinCrimea]

Remember when I said the world is too darn predictable? This is exactly what
I was referring to: irrelevant assumptions that don't focus on the substance of the topic but try to turn it around personally on the poster  .........nye stoit. I notice Gator also has
some of the same incorrect assumptions that I predicted would be the response - instead of addressing the substance there are multiple (incorrect)  a**umptions
that try to personalize the topic as opposed to addressing substance (human nature is so darn predictable - especially on this forum)............

***The only thing that matters
is that WM understand that it is only a small minority of Russian and Ukrainian women that fall into the category of "the world's greatest women."  WM need to beware
of this reality so they can approach their endeavour fully informed of the realities
and pitfalls.

Gator, sorry but I am out of time. I will respond later.....

I don't understand, if the mistaken assumptions were so predictable, why you didn't write your post in such a way as to head off these assumptions.  Where you fishing for backlash?  I find it strange that you write a list of YOUR assumptions without any source or reference and then when someone disagrees with them you call THEIR assumptions mistaken.

I also found this quote interesting: "By his own admission, Gator has only dated a few FSUW and has had little experience outside the dating realm = not an authority. "  So you say by this standard that Gator has no authority to paint a rosy picture.  Please show by contrast how you can claim the authority to paint the reverse.  It might be nice for the members here to see what credentials you can cite that back up your claim to superiority over Gator with regard to authority.

I didn't want to go into detail on each area that I felt you were in error at some level or other as it would be a waste of time.  I found that the overall tone of your post was better taken in its entirety.  I did ask you to address the positive traits that these cultural issues can bring out and you ignored my "addressing the substance".

I think my direct question to you was in no way a personalization of the issue but instead a valid question since it appears that your conclusions regarding FSUW are contradictory to your desire to have one.  It was an opportunity for you to explain what appears to be a dichotomy of thought and action.

[WmGO]

1. I don't understand, if the mistaken assumptions were so predictable, why you didn't write your post in such a way as to head off these assumptions....

2. I think my direct question to you was in no way a personalization of the issue but instead a valid question since it appears that your conclusions regarding FSUW are contradictory to your desire to have one.  It was an opportunity for you to explain what appears to be a dichotomy of thought and action.

1. Because I chose not to. But I did want to make clear that I anticipated them (see last paragraph of my thought provoking thread). Which should have been a tip to the more astute to not make any assumptions but rather to just focus on the substance of my post: character issues involving FSUW (the topic of the thread).

2. I realize that you are curious. It is human nature. In the end, it does not matter and has no bearing on the validity of my observtions about character issues involving FSUW. But a little hint. Your making an assumption. But as I said before, it doesn't matter. The important thing is as I said before:  Russian and Ukrainian women are products of their environment just as much as FSUM are. And WM need to know and understand everything that that entail - the bad and the ugly, just as much, if not more than , the good. I just noted that Gator, a wise and very cool man, was overdoing  it on the good part....

Please show by contrast how you can claim the authority to paint the reverse.  It might be nice for the members here to see what credentials you can cite that back up your claim to superiority over Gator with regard to authority.

Finally, someone asks a good question. Kudos Scott. First, I think from prior posts it should be obvious that my FSU knowledge and experience is extensive. Let me elaborate:

1. I began studying Russia and the former Soviet Union 30 years ago. I have never stopped.

2. I have been to Russia and Ukraine ten times in the past 8 years each time for 3 to 5 weeks (right now as folks read this they are making assumptions......).

3. I have met and/or dated dozens of FSUW from Moscow to St. Pete to Kiev and Odessa and many, many places in between.

4. HOWEVER, (and this will dispel the natural assumptions people make), most of my FSU travelings and activities did not revolve around, and are not directly related to chasing FSUW. Hence, I have had the opportunity to meet hundreds (actually thousands) of FSUW and  FSUM outside the dating context, as well as within it. As such, I have been able to learn and understand much more about the FSU than the average WM who has never studied anything about this unique culture and just goes over to meet a woman or women, studies nothing and then returns home.

5. I am part of and participate in the building of a large permanent network of friends, colleagues and contacts throught the FSU. I have many friends there that are doctors, psychologists, academics and some in government and the military. I have and continue to ask and learn things from them about Russian and Ukrainian people, culture, behaviors, problems, etc.  And this is something I know some people  (like Sandro) will  appreciate - although I do so from several different perspectives and goals, I also do so from the *academic* perspective as I am at heart an academic. So for me, drawing conclusions and/or making observations about a people, culture or nation is first and foremost an academic matter, not a romantic matter, or from some other kind of perspective. { for anyone who thinks my observing and noting negative qualities about FSU or FSUW is just about tooting America's horn and/or some kind of cultural or national superiority I would refer them to my comments about my own country America in the "What is wrong with America" and related threads}

6. The above is not everything, but it is a short synopsis. The bottom line is this and I have said this before:  more than any single thing, the WM pursuing FSUW is more about separating a man from his money more than anything else. On the AM side, for the most part, the cream of the crop is not involved. On the FSUW side, well I have noted much already, but suffice to say that there are MANY wonderful FSUW, just like there are in any country, but of the FSUW who make themselves available to WM via agencies, websites etc, it is caveat emptor all the way. I hate use, misuse and abuse from both sides, and the *only* perspective I am ever coming from when participating on this forum is to try to help people avoid such pitfalls.

I could say more and probably will but my fingers are tired.

[WmGO]

Again, with this attitude I question why he is even searching for a FSUW, but it definitely confirms why he has yet to find one who will stay with him.

This is EXACTLY the kind of intellectually weak and morally bankrupt *personal* attack I would have expected from you - and ALL based on your ignorant and incorrect *assumption*.  AND *consistent* with your modus operandi: substance of post ignored but quick with an immature  personal slight. You are weak. Very weak - mentally, intellectually and morally.

Note: I had not observed this personal slight before typing my preceding post.