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Author Topic: Responses to Introductory Posts  (Read 27344 times)

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Offline KenC

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2007, 02:06:15 PM »
Dan,
I think what we are discussing here has more impact than just the introductory section.  We are slipping into what and how advice should be administered in all sections.  What would you rather have-

a forum where experienced members administer good advice no matter how bitter a pill it is to swallow for the person asking for the advice?

or

a forum where everyone is nice and sweet but the advice is illogical and misleading but dispensed in a kind and gentle manner?

Sometimes the truth is harsh.  Sometimes the truth hurts.  It doesn't change the truth.

Sorry but some of us old crusty OMB's are the most sincere members here at RWD.  Our "in your face" methods do go over the line on occasion, but I would rather be hit over the head with the truth than to have all the Turbo's in the world blow sunshine up my azz.  That my friend is the real danger.  Someone who agrees with you only to make you feel good about your bad decisions.  What good did that do for PG?  He was encouraged by a handful of guys here to do the wrong things in a very nice way, but in the end it all blew up in his face.  No matter how nicely the piss poor advice was given, it was still piss poor advice and it proved itself to be wrong.  How many more PG's do we sacrifice to be nice?

The realities in life are harsh.  Not everyone has what it takes to be successful in this endeavor.  Some don't earn enough money.  Some cannot afford the time.  Others do not have the patience.  We should focus on those that do and to hell with the rest.  We are not here to save the world, just give some credible advice regarding the pursuit of RW.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Simoni

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2007, 02:12:05 PM »
Simoni,
Your "strawman" posted:  blah blah blah
Not my strawman...but one created by our community.

The fact is that Chris was attacked for his dress by people who did not even care to read or chose to ignore his statement that he wore a suit and tie to work EVERY day.  And thus a strawman appeared (not Chris), some buffoon who did not know how to dress.

What a mess, and poor welcome....AND...Our membership incited this.

The point of this thread is to question why this man was attacked within 3 fairly bland posts and a strawman, a simpleton really, was created from those 3 posts.  

The real truth is that members used Chris to attack other members they don't like.  That is a disservice to not only Chris, but to RWD.

Let's keep the intro thread a welcome thread.  Bring on the heavy advise in other threads as they are posted in future days.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 02:16:48 PM by Simoni »

Offline jb

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2007, 02:25:29 PM »
Frankly, I see rules, proposed such as these, as the beginning of the untimely demise of the RWD in it's present form.   Whenever it is deemed more important to be "sweet" to the newbie, to string him along, rather than to tell him the truth, then it becomes a question of the advertisers who are looking for fresh meat, not what we thought RWD was all about.  We saw this happen on the RWG some years ago.

Not my cup 'o tea.

Offline KenC

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2007, 02:27:29 PM »
Not my strawman...but one created by our community.
The concept of the creation of a strawman was your's

Quote
The fact is that Chris was attacked for his dress by people who did not even care to read or chose to ignore his statement that he wore a suit and tie to work EVERY day.  And thus a strawman appeared (not Chris), some buffoon who did not know how to dress.
If you bothered to read my post, quotes of Chris do show that he was not inclined to "clean up a bit" in order to present a better version of himself for a RW.

Quote
That is fact....just check the order of posts and don't feed us stuff from another strand on another day. 

Again, with the poor reading abilities.  It was all from his introductory thread

Quote
What a mess, and poor welcome....AND...Our membership incited this.
Chris got a fine welcome and the title of his thread solicited input.

Quote
The point of this thread is to question why this man was attacked within 3 fairly bland posts and a strawman, a simpleton really, was created from those 3 posts. 
Again, no "strawman" was needed as Chris defended his right to dress poorly.

Quote
The real truth is that members used Chris to attack other members they don't like.  That is a disservice to not only Chris, but to RWD.
  If you notice, most of the harsher statements are in direct response to members trying to suck up to the person in question by attacking the administrator of the advice.

Quote
Let's keep the intro thread a welcome thread.  Bring on the heavy advise in other threads as they are posted in future days.
This is an odd event because Chris used the intro to solicit advice.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Turboguy

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2007, 02:31:12 PM »
I think P/G has been over discussed so I will just say one brief thing.  I think P/G did what P/G had to do to satisfy himself about his future.  If we need to discuss P/G much more start another thread about it.

Ken, there are more ways to do things than "in your face" or "blowing sunshine".  It is not an either/or.   Advice can be given in a helpful and constructive way.  Most of my blowing sunshine is when someone has been cruelly and tactlessly attacked.  

One option is to try to keep the tone civil in the intro section and if someone feels the need to whip the tar out of someone go to another section and start a thread to do that.

The other option is if an introductory thread gets out of hand, move it to another section, one where relationships are discussed if it is medium out of hand and Anything goes if it really goes ballistic.  

I think a thread where people can say hello and tell us a little about themselves and were we can welcome them and steer them towards reference material that may be helpful is a good thing.  

I think when people open up about their dreams and their hopes and their feelings it helps us all to understand what people go through and what it means to them when their dreams come true.  I think openness should be encouraged.

jb, hogwash.   I don't think Dan's comments had anything to do with advertsing dollars.  They had to do with making his vision of RWD real.   It had to to with living up to the men's standards that many members colaborated on.  It is not the death of RWD, it is a step forward.

Offline wiz

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2007, 02:52:50 PM »
BillyB

Have you noticed that nobody from the OMB’s has paid any notice to your nicely expressed views except Dan?

Dan
Quote
It has been stated before, and I guess it needs restatement frequently - but when a person makes the decision to criticise another, they have the option to present it in a way that is productive and well-received (Gator's and BillyB's posts are prime examples), or not. Everyone, OMB's included, are expected to contribute in ways that are productive and respectful. There is simply no need for disrespectful, condescending, or hurtful discourse. It not only is hurtful to the member who is 'targeted', but it is hurtful to RWD.

Jazzy was right to bring attention to this kind of attitude from the OMB’s because it has  been going on since I have joined this board 2 + years ago. All that barrage of hurtful and harsh criticism is neither productive nor helpful to new or old member. It appears to me that the OMB’s are acting like vultures, waiting for a new victim to post and then they attack all together like a pack of wolves. It is obvious that they are on RWD to satisfy their ego trip and arrogance. What other reason do they have to be here daily with such successful marriages under their belts?

Personally I still read this board but unlike FSURukie made the decision to avoid posting anything serious, now, because I can’t be bothered answering to the attacks of people like KenC, Jb, and ScottinCrimea.

In my last foray to post something about my new relationship (My short story with a happy end) they descended like vultures with their sarcasm and criticism and very quickly derailed the post and when an AD member appeared on the scene it was obvious that bigger trouble was in the horizon and the thread was locked under the unreasonable excuse, “other members didn’t find any interest to my thread!” I can understand Dan’s position for trying to keep the normal run of the board and the threat out trouble because of the presence of the AD member but if you look more closely that thread you will notice the same attitude as exhibited in “Chris’s” post.

Sorry Dan but in your own words:

“There is simply no need for disrespectful, condescending, or hurtful discourse.”

The biggest culprits for such kind of behaviour are your OMB’s who are the most “successful, respected, knowledgeable and arrogant” and NOBODY else knows anything about relationships apart from them!





Offline WmGO

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2007, 02:54:14 PM »
 And thus a strawman appeared (not Chris), some buffoon who did not know how to dress.

Guys that wear baseball caps other than when they are hunting, fishing or doing yard work DON"T know how to dress!!!  :cluebat:  

But yeah, we may have been a little too hard on the feller.......... :'(


Offline Admin

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2007, 02:55:45 PM »
Dan,
I think what we are discussing here has more impact than just the introductory section.  We are slipping into what and how advice should be administered in all sections.  What would you rather have-

a forum where experienced members administer good advice no matter how bitter a pill it is to swallow for the person asking for the advice?

or

a forum where everyone is nice and sweet but the advice is illogical and misleading but dispensed in a kind and gentle manner?

Sometimes the truth is harsh.  Sometimes the truth hurts.  It doesn't change the truth.

Sorry but some of us old crusty OMB's are the most sincere members here at RWD.  Our "in your face" methods do go over the line on occasion, but I would rather be hit over the head with the truth than to have all the Turbo's in the world blow sunshine up my azz.  That my friend is the real danger.  Someone who agrees with you only to make you feel good about your bad decisions.  What good did that do for PG?  He was encouraged by a handful of guys here to do the wrong things in a very nice way, but in the end it all blew up in his face.  No matter how nicely the piss poor advice was given, it was still piss poor advice and it proved itself to be wrong.  How many more PG's do we sacrifice to be nice?

The realities in life are harsh.  Not everyone has what it takes to be successful in this endeavor.  Some don't earn enough money.  Some cannot afford the time.  Others do not have the patience.  We should focus on those that do and to hell with the rest.  We are not here to save the world, just give some credible advice regarding the pursuit of RW.
KenC

Ken,

I wholeheartedly agree with the need for honest and direct advice about the realities folks will face in this endeavor. I posted this message in the Introductions section because it is most evident here, when there is a new member who faces a rash of overly-harsh criticism. It happens elsewhere as well, but the contrast is (IMO) most evident in THIS forum, hence, my post here.

My post was NOT intended to do anything more than what I have done since the beginning of RWD - back when we were completely non-commercial. Anyone wishing to take the time to review the posts from our humble beginnings will find some VERY similar appeals to the members back then, and the only financial support for RWD for a very long time was my pocketbook. That is, in fact, what prompted me to make the comment about having made repeated appeals and it does not seem to work well - and the need to find a different solution.

I have *NEVER* supported name-calling and personal insults. They are worse than unproductive - they are counter-productive. They cause people to take emotionally dug-in positions which they would not take in a civil discourse. They cause people to 'shut down' to the important elements of the message and focus only on the insults. It is a natural human reaction.

Ken (et al), there are two forums at RWD which I believe strongly should be protected. One is THIS one - the Introductions forum. Guys and gals should feel the freedom to come and post in this section without fear of criticism or anxiety of rebuke. In retrospect, I think there are a number of posts here which should have been split off and moved to other, more appropriate forums - and that is what we will endeavor to do in the future.

The other forum which needs to be protected is the Trip Report forum. I know we suffered some controversy over what one member posted not long ago. It was difficult for many of our members to not jump in to offer comment on what they saw unfolding. Still, as I stated back then, the material posted was useful - if for no other reason than it helped to form a backdrop of contrast between that member's posts, and what most here at RWD consider appropriate (and inappropriate) behaviors.

My point, once again, is to direct everyone back to the Values we published. Is there anything wrong with those? Do they reflect what you want RWD to be? In the very recent past, the collective opinion was YES. Has that changed? If it has not changed, then are we, collectively, supporting those values? I saw name-calling and personal insults being flung about. It is difficult for me to see how those fit into any of those values.

- Dan

Offline Simoni

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2007, 04:10:51 PM »
The concept of the creation of a strawman was your's
Did you not take debate in high school or college?  A strawman is what the debater creates so he or she can have something to attack.  In this case, that's what posters were doing. I merely called attention to it.  For example, someone attacked Chris for the way he was dressed in his profile.  They created this strawman that he was a country buffoon who always dressed like this. He responded that he did dress appropriately based upon the function--for example, he wears suits to work.  But this only led to more attacks.  Even after he wrote:
"...no, I would never show up to meet a young woman in jeans and a ball cap..."


Again, no "strawman" was needed as Chris defended his right to dress poorly.
Yes, he did...but ONLY AFTER he had been attacked for his profile pic.  And he thought this (RWD) was a Men's forum, so posted a manly photo  ;D

Even then, he said:
Yes, this is a old picture and doesn't do a good job of reflecting who I am but I am in a suit 60 hours a week for work and I will not wear one when I am supposed to be enjoying myself.
Once again, his words show he understands clothes for work and clothes for play.

And yes, he became obstinate after more attacks, but that is a trait that is NORMAL for guys married to fsu girls, as seen by the posts in this thread.  When Dan called for reason, more darts were thrown.  So being stubborn does not disqualify him.

Having said all of that, I'll add that my argument is not specific to Chris, but to Dan's question about what our reactions should be in the introductory thread.

Personally, I think Chris is too young for this search and simply needs to wait until next summer, when more fsu babes come to the Panama City Beaches  ;D
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 05:05:25 PM by Simoni »

Online BillyB

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2007, 04:38:36 PM »
BillyB

Have you noticed that nobody from the OMB’s has paid any notice to your nicely expressed views except Dan?


Wiz, I'm sure everyone reading this thread has taken notice of what everyone else is saying including what I said.

If it's our goal to help a newbie and we turn him off by the way we deliver the "right" advice, then we would have failed in our goal. People will not listen to those they don't respect. When newbies first sign up, they may have no idea who the most experienced guys are and they may not know that this is the best place to pick up Knowledge and tips for this endeavour. If they spend more time here, they can make up their own mind on what advice to follow and if they decide to go against common sense and then crash and burn as a result, ultimately they, not we, are the ones that pay the price.

I'm still wondering if Mir made the right decision to give a RW a second chance against most our opinions? I said my two cents against giving her a second chance, that's all I should do and anything more would be harassing him.


Guys that wear baseball caps other than when they are hunting, fishing or doing yard work DON"T know how to dress!!!  

But Chris was hunting. Hunting for a Russian dear. ;)
There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2007, 06:17:42 PM »
If it's our goal to help a newbie and we turn him off by the way we deliver the "right" advice, then we would have failed in our goal. People will not listen to those they don't respect.
A lot of plain, common sense in what you say, BillyB. And may I repeat a word, courtesy, that IMO is particularly appropriare in an "Introductions and Ice-Breaker" thread (by all means, feel free to jump on a newbie's stupid idea AFTER he's made his initial appearance).

I also have some doubts whether "saving a newbie from making, to us, obvious mistakes" is the ONLY motivation of some vitriolic posts here, and also whether the valuable experience gained YEARS ago by some OMB in securing and keeping a FSUW is still totally applicable to today's circumstances.
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline KenC

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2007, 06:35:54 PM »
Dan,
I always thought that the intro section was a little silly any way to be honest.  I only went there when there was nothing else happening elsewhere.  I know we talked about this before, and I don't remember your response, but all new members should be directed to the FAQS section automatically.

I agree that the intro section should be handled more delicately than other sections.  And I think it is, for the most part.  It is only when an introduction takes on a different theme does it sometimes turn into something less desirable.  The two recent examples are Chris soliciting advice (and getting it) and JGalt's intro that was hijacked by Jazzy & Serebro and taking it down the "Russians are better than any other fsu people" path.

Maybe some kind of disclaimer from you stating the exact purpose of the section would limit the use for what it was intended would help.  If you really think there is a problem, then maybe you should allow new members to post their intro without added comments, but I doubt anyone would ever read them.  I seriously do not see a couple of threads going sideways as any call for action though.
KenC
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 07:28:08 PM by KenC »
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Offline KenC

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2007, 06:38:55 PM »
Simoni,
I disagree that any "strawman" was created in Chris' thread.  Most saw him for what he was and responded accordingly.  It is only you that seems to be making him more than he was.
KenC
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 07:29:57 PM by KenC »
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline KenC

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2007, 06:47:17 PM »
It is obvious that they are on RWD to satisfy their ego trip and arrogance. What other reason do they have to be here daily with such successful marriages under their belts?
Better to listen to some folks with successful marriages than an aging sex tourist!

Quote
Personally I still read this board but unlike FSURukie made the decision to avoid posting anything serious, now,

You have rarely made a post to help anyone here and only use this forum to brag about your latest conquest (victim).

Quote
The biggest culprits for such kind of behaviour are your OMB’s who are the most “successful, respected, knowledgeable and arrogant” and NOBODY else knows anything about relationships apart from them!
And just what do you know about being married to a RW?  Maybe Dan should open a new section for you and Pike "Sex tourism for the aging"
KenC
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 07:31:03 PM by KenC »
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Simoni

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2007, 07:32:53 PM »
Simoni,
I disagree that any "strawman" was created in Chris' thread.  Most saw him for what he was and responded accordingly.  It is only you that seems to be making him more than he was.
KenC
Actually, the verdict preceded the evidence.

Offline KenC

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2007, 07:34:24 PM »
Actually, the verdict preceded the evidence.
Whatever
Edited to add:
Simoni,
You are wrong wrong wrong.  Chris posted his dufus looking photo in his introductory post (first clue that he was an aspiring good ol boy at 27 or 28 (whichever age he posted you choose to believe).  Who doesn't know how old they are?  (Except Turbo)  He then defended his right to dress anyway he wanted in response to some very nicely phrased suggestions.  (His plea for the RW to accept him as he is)  At which time he began to make error after error in his word choices and spelling.  There was plenty of evidence of his "good ol boy' syndrome long before anyone called him a slug.
KenC
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 07:47:25 PM by KenC »
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
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Offline Turboguy

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2007, 08:32:42 PM »
Maybe we should talk to the USCIS and pass along a suggeston to lower immigration.   Include a spelling be as part of the K-1 process.  The ones that don't make the cut are not worthy of a RW and their K-1 is thrown out.   Only the top ones get their visa.   Would that suit you Ken.

So now we have added dufus to slug, dullard and Mr Sluggo.  We are making real progress and showing our range of vocabulary.   Any more you want to tack on?


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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2007, 09:29:15 PM »
Turbo,

Spelling and writing are very important if one is corresponding directly with RW.  I find it difficult to believe some of the posters here can communicate with a RW with intermediate English skills.

Writing to a RW was more difficult to me than writing a university textbook  because of having to use simple sentences without being boring, selecting colorful yet short words, and avoiding words with double meaning.

Nevertheless, the worst speller in history is AJ, and he ended up with a fabulous woman.  Proving that one strategy is just show up if you have game. 


Offline WonderMonkey

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2007, 10:18:20 PM »
As a newbie, I have a couple of things to say.

First, and most importantly, some of you are forgetting the Golden Rule... you know, the "do unto others..." one.  Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect.  In no way do those two qualities compromise truth.  You can be firm and still be a gentleman.  Isn't that the mantra you preach to the newbies?  "Be honest, respect the ladies, be a gentleman at all times, etc."  Why does this apply only to the ladies?  Shouldn't it apply to everyone?  I think this is the message Dan is trying to convey.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know we don't live in an idealistic world.  The way things "should be" and the way things "are" are often very different.  However, that does not preclude your responsibility to try and make things better (i.e. the way they "should be"), if you're going to post here and provide advice to others.  I mean, honestly, we must have some standards to work toward.

Do some of us [newbies] need a dose of reality?  Yes!  Do some of us need to be knocked over the head with the truth?  Definitely!  Can you give this constructive criticism without being an a**hole?  Absolutely... but will you step up to the plate and be the gentlemen you claim you are...?

Second, the newbies (delicate and fragile creatures that we are) have minds of their own.  They ask questions, you give solid advice, they ignore said advice... and they wind up in a mess.  It's rather like teenagers, don't you think?  Regardless of how your particular brand of parenting style might handle the situation (the "talk," grounding, beating, firing squad, etc), the bottom line is this:  ultimately people are going to do what they d*** well please, and there's nothing you can do about it. 

Is it frustrating and idiotically stupid that they ask for your help... and then ignore it?  Yes!  It even pisses me off when they turn around and argue with you about it.  I think to myself, "You maroon!  If you know better, why the f*** did you ask them in the first place?" ...but I think these things to myself; I don't say them.

Think of it like this:  veteran posters are the parents, and newbies are the children--albeit, these children are now grown and looking for husband/wives of their own.  You can only do so much for them.  You try to teach them right and wrong, and then you pray to God (or Allah, or whoever) you make an impression.  The smart boys and girls will listen to your advice.  The others... well, you do the best you can.  Ultimately, however, the newbies are responsible for their own actions.  Once you reach a certain age, like it or not, you cannot blame your parents for the troubles in your life.

Third, a lot of the newbies actually have common sense.  We can judge the credibility of a post for ourselves.  Again, this falls in line with my second point (re: we are all responsible for our own actions), but I feel it's necessary to spell out this train of thought.  Now before I go into all this, for Pete's sake, yes I KNOW I am a newbie.  I am in no way, shape, or form suggesting that I know everything... especially when it comes to things FSU related.  That's why I'm here, isn't it?  However, as a newbie, I can demonstrate that some of us do know a little bit about most of the regulars... and as such can judge for ourselves the appropriateness of their responses.

  • Admin - Dan doesn't post as much as everyone else, but when he does, his responses are on-topic, objective, and insightful.  Beyond that, the best thing I can say about Dan is that he's fair.  Mostly he lets things be around here, but lately it seems that he has to step in and moderate more than he'd like.  (BTW, I swear I'm not being a suck up.)
  • KenC - Ken, like most OMBs, is one of those people who will definitely "tell you like it is."  His posts are almost always appropriate, measured responses.  His ideas are clear, well-formed, and dead on.  IMHO, he's almost always right.  If he says something, you should pay attention.  He's also the kind of person who fights for what he believes in--which is commendable--but sometimes he doesn't know when to let it go, e.g. the Chris1016 thread.
  • Rvrwind - Richard is a real firecracker of a guy.  He lets his temper get away with him sometimes--though, in all honestly, this could simply be because of recent event in his life.  Who can blame him after some of the things he's been through lately?  All in all, he's a wonderful guy... positive (mostly, heh!), animated, helpful, and a great source of inside information.  When using an agency, this is THE guy you want to see.
  • Kuna, I/O, ScottinCrimea, Simoni, et al - These guys have found their ladies and have recently been (or will recently be) inducted into the OMB club... though I guess without the "old" bit just yet.  =)  I can't say I always agree with the things they say, but I always read their posts.  There is usually very good information there.  ScottinCrimea sometimes loses his cool, but they all use logic and common sense to back up what they say and explain the things they've experienced.
  • Lily, JazzyClassy, vwrw, Blues Fairy, et al - How can you have a board about Russian women without Russian women?  If you want to marry one, it's prudent to listen to a couple of them go a few rounds over various topics.  Pay attention to what they say, how they say it, and why.  Personally, I particularly enjoy reading posts from Lily and vwrw.  Their posts are genuine, insightful, and kind.  Sometimes JazzyClassy and Blues Fairy get emotionally wrapped up in a topic and are a little more confrontational than I prefer, but do not underestimate them.  All of the ladies are extremely intelligent.  If you step out of bounds, they will verbally castrate you.  Seriously, it's not pretty.  =)
  • TurboGuy, WmGO, 2Tallbill, HiTech, et al - Honestly, I ignore most of your posts for various reasons (no content, confusing, irrational, poor judgment, etc).  I don't use the ignore button on you, but I usually just visually "skip" over your posts.  I'll use TurboGuy for a specific example since he's a nice guy and seems to be one to take constructive criticism well.  TurboGuy's heart is in the right place, but his ideas, advice, conclusions, etc. are hit or miss.  Mostly, however, his posts lack substance.  When you respond to a post, you should be asking yourself, "Where is the content?  Where is the substance?  Where's the beef?"  ( )  I think KenC is a little heavy handed with TurboGuy, but he does have a point.  When you post a reply, you should bring new ideas to a discussion and not simply regurgitate what everyone else has already said.
  • There are many, many others I could list, but I think the above is a pretty good cross-section.

Bottom-line:  some of us do, in fact, pay attention.  Generally (not specifically here at RWD), newbies lurk around a board, get a general feel for the place, learn who's who, and mentally filter your responses based on what they've learned.  Part of our "education" is learning the difference between who we should listen to and who we shouldn't.  I think it will vary from newbie to newbie, but everyone should have their say.  The point is... here, you shouldn't coddle us, nor should you shy away from "telling us how it is."  I only suggest you use a little tact and show some compassion for your fellow man when you do.

To recap, 1) remember the Golden Rule and that everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect; 2) we are all responsible for our own actions (kiddies included); and 3) some of us actually have some sense... present us with the facts, and let us succeed or fail on our own.

As for the Intro forum, leave it open.  As KenC so aptly put...

I agree that the intro section should be handled more delicately than other sections.  And I think it is, for the most part.  It is only when an introduction takes on a different theme does it sometimes turn into something less desirable.

Beyond that, if you were to close the Intro forum to comments, you would defeat most of it's purpose.  Getting users acclimated to the forum is done in part by making that first post, interacting with others, and replying a few times.  In a sense, "prepping" them to contribute in other areas.  New users and posts are what drives the forum... otherwise, it'll wither and die... just a newbie's two cents.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 10:26:39 PM by WonderMonkey »

Offline Turboguy

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2007, 10:27:00 PM »
Gator, I have to agree that it is extremely important.   If a woman is using an electronic translator misspelled words are just not going to work, even if she does not need one she is going to find it very confusing and difficult to read poor English.

I think AJ proves it is not vital.  I am sure he is far from the only one who makes some mistakes.   I started my search long before the internet was common and went through the same things about trying to use simple sentences and trying to use a dictionary to translate some of the letters I received in Russian.   It is so much easier today.

I think we often tend to think everyone is like us and wants the same qualites in a woman.  I think in reality we are a very diverse group.   We have guys who are very successful in business, and we have some who hold 9-5 jobs.  We have guys who live a very cosmopolitan life and some laid back country folk.    The same applies to the women.  There are good women who are loaded with class and sophistication and there are some who work in shops or rather average jobs.  

I think if someone is realistic in what they seek and has the financial ability to carry the process through and the inner strength to deal with the challenges they can probably find someone they should be happy with.  

Wondermonkey,   good post and I agree with a lot of it.

Offline Simoni

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2007, 10:51:51 PM »
There is no use repeating the arguement here.   The first 10 posts of that thread tell the story of what happened.

This strand is a call to be civil; at least in the intro strand.  That did not happen in this case.

I agree with Dan that we should and can do better than this.
 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 04:13:58 AM by Simoni »

Offline Kuna

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2007, 11:07:51 PM »
Wondermonkey,   good post and I agree with a lot of it.

Oops.... Simoni wants us all to be civil - but I wonder if Turbo's post above means he (Turbo) will now stop posting mind-numbing, simplistic and dangerous advice?


Offline Jazzyclassy

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2007, 11:18:53 PM »
Quote
   I have *NEVER* supported name-calling and personal insults. They are worse than unproductive - they are counter-productive. They cause people to take emotionally dug-in positions which they would not take in a civil discourse. They cause people to 'shut down' to the important elements of the message and focus only on the insults. It is a natural human reaction.
      

I completely agree with this

If KenC and his Rah Rah Club want introduction part without welcoming, do it  how they like , as their life is only Forum nothing else is going on , they gotta have some fun finally ,poor people can not find a person to bully or just to give their strange comments, judging of the person whom they really will never know in reality.
No matter how we post, I never think anything bad about any member of this forum , never blocked anyone, cos none knows those people who posts here for real , it is only a little bit of them , not their entire personality , we can not judge people by those words  in the forum only!

Just cos some people do not tell about their private life in details here , not posting loads of pictures of their partners and trip reports does not mean they do not have anything to offer and to say and to share about their great experience, does not mean that there is nothing going on in their life. And what we always hear here, Oh she/he has no experience in international relations and in life at all  and bla bla bla just cos he/she is young and we are not waiting anything constructive from a person

that is how you treated Chris, DKMM, Maxx and other people , you just want this forum for old people - so be it!

You do not want any compromise any variety of opinions and new bright thoughts about the future and relations and how other people meet and how they develop things in their life, you apparently wanna hear all the time the story of Ken C in many other versions , but still the same with the same category of people with their money values and so on ,but look World relations are much more global than that

I find it very  sad and disappointing. We can not bring somebody down cos he/she has done it in the other way, even if Chris just wanted to have such  place (forum ), maybe he never even thought of meeting RW for real, he just felt lonely and maybe a bit sad and found this forum to share his thoughts with, so what? that is always nice, people should be very glad that others are still registering here! and support the idea of many different people to come here and give their own point of view about relations.

Can not you realise that you made a ghetto of it , even when maybe back in several months ago it was much more better than it is right now

I sincerely ask people and active members to think about it

By ignoring my opinion, you ignore and can not hear a lot of young people with their own vision of life, and by this you close the door between your generation and mine.....

Why then you ever ever allowed young people and women for example register here , if you neglect with scorn and prejudice anything what they post?? Your arrogance in the meaning of pride is huge , no matter that almost all of you have kids , grown up kids, you do not think of possibility that maybe somewhere they are being treated like young people and some extraordinary personalities in RWD, being treated by you , you never thought of this thing happening to your children to have this humiliation  constantly going on. Of course not cos that's your kids , and not somebody from the other part of the world, whom you are ready to spill with shit!

Then there is this constant competition between old people who is smarter , who is better , who is richer, what is that for?

I just lost the idea why I am here, feel no desire to tell anything about my relations  for a long time already ...



 

Offline KenC

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2007, 11:29:06 PM »
Jazzy,
Have you been drinking?  If your post above was directed at me, you just wasted a lot of time and effort because this is by far your most incoherent post yet.  I have no clue what it is you are trying to say.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Jazzyclassy

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Re: Responses to Introductory Posts
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2007, 11:37:35 PM »
Jazzy,
Have you been drinking?  If your post above was directed at me, you just wasted a lot of time and effort because this is by far your most incoherent post yet.  I have no clue what it is you are trying to say.
KenC

Oh mama dorogaya, then go get some sleep and then read it again , with all my respect

Commander Jazzy  ;D

 

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