Should she report him to Antidate?

[Simoni]

Well Groov,, maybe BillyB is "correct" in your eyes,  however, a man or woman who is not divorced is still considered married both morally and by law. Not to mention in God's eyes. Ultimately,  it is Him we have to answer to.  If they choose to start another fling or relationship before its final,  they are committing adultery.  We all have our own convictions and morals or immoral as this suggests.  Divorce happens in the heart long before papers are ever filed or become final.  I'm no one to judge unless they come to me for advice,  at that point I  have to call it as it is.  I have never seen anything good come out of adultery,only needless pain. People need to wise up and spend time healing or they just repeat the same old patterns and mistakes.  

Michael, despite your first words, you are being very judgmental here.  And off base, IMHO.  The Bible does say "all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God."  So why are you calling people out for this one aspect?

And for your information, both Groov and Gator are success stories here at RWD.

[catzenmouse]

Agree completely with Gator. Religion and politics will take this thread straight to hell. (pun intended).

[groovlstk]

so fifty points from Gryffindor for an preapprehension about the women from Antidate

Tsk tsk, sad to see that Russia is experiencing a decline in reading habits.

I'm no one to judge unless they come to me for advice,  at that point I  have to call it as it is.

No worries mate, you're one of the last people I'd request advice from.

[BillyB]

and again we will blacklist any separated guy whose wife will call or email curses to our women,

Kvinna, I hope you have higher standards at antidate. It is no surprise most people in this thread and at antidate will blacklist a person with name and photo based on another person's word alone or based on insulting a RW. I think antidate is taking it too far when they blacklist men based on a one sided story that a man insulted a RW in a phone call or a '"possible" wife of his called. Sometimes ex's will sabotage the other ex's relationships with lies. The World of antiscam sites would be a better place if evidence was required before posting any person's name or photo on a blacklist, period.

Some of you may not know it but there are cyber wars out there between people who are participating in this thread. Names, photos, emails and personal addresses are listed out in cyberspace for all to see. Accusations towards enemies are from them being idiots to child molestors/stalkers in attempts to destroy credibility, another person's personal life at work and with family, and their business. It usually starts because somebody starts to bad mouth another and then they get retaliated against until it escalates out of control as each person tries to out do the other. Nobody wins. If some of you saw what I saw out there, many of you would change your vote.  TomT, where are you? Maybe you can reflect on a situation you're in give the posters here an understanding on what I just talked about.

[William3rd]

You go, girl. Stick with the 80%. Protecting the 1% of men who might have had an excuse for stupid behavior isnt in anybody's best interest-except for the 1%. Just chalk it up to genetics or arrested development and move on. . . . .

Post it.

[TomT]

TomT, where are you? Maybe you can reflect on a situation you're in give the posters here an understanding on what I just talked about.

Billy,

Are you sure that this forum has sufficient bandwidth for it?

[BillyB]

Billy,

Are you sure that this forum has sufficient bandwidth for it?

Probably not Tom but in a nut shell you had valid reasons to complain about the service you received from an agency and things got out of control from a vindictive ex agency owner who's hit way below the belt more than once by getting way too personal. In many ways, you were unfairly hurt more than the ex agency owner of bad character. 

If I wanted to further damage the RW who lost money on a non refundable ticket, I'd tell her to go ahead, list the guy's name and photo, and get into a mud slinging contest using antiscam sites and forums as the battleground. Unless there's evidence, there will be no winners in a he say/she say dispute.

Kvinna, correct me if I'm wrong, but you mentioned on a forum once that antidate will list men that have insulted RW. Is this still true? If so, don't you think some RW had deserved it based on their actions?

William, what would you do if you posted on the internet a wrong that somebody did to you without proof and that person you listed decided to retaliate, hunt you down, post your personal email, phone number, and address to where you and your family lives, try to destroy your business and humiliate you by trying to contact your peers privately and professionally, and accuse you of being a child molester among many other things? In defense of your initial actions, would you say an internet poll told you to do it so it must be the smart thing to do? It's a responsibility to mention the possible consequences of one's actions defaming another instead of saying "you go girl". That's easy to say when you're not the one affected.

BTW, how many of you out there defamed another on the internet? Surely somebody's done wrong to you so what could be valid reasons for not posting their photo and name? Most people would encourge you to do so, possibly 80% as evident here. What's good for the RW who lost money should be good enough for you too. Give advice you're willing to live by.

[ScottinCrimea]

BillyB,  So based on your premise, if there is any possibility that there might be retribution by the offender if you report a crime, it's better to just keep silent?

[mspanky]

 What if this guy is just playing games? In other wortds perhaps he was burned by a RW or he just gets his jollies by making them pay for a ticket for a vacation he has no intentions of showing up to. The 3rd place location is very questionable. Why not meet her on her turf where he can meet friends and family? Seems like a set-up from the word GO!

   Then to cancel the day before is another red flag. Did he even have the ticket in hand? Was he able to get a refund?  To top it off not to even offer to pay her for at least  half her ticket cost is inexcusable. RW make a very small percentage of an American salary. This must have been quite a hit to her financially.  This guy has absolutely no excuse for his behavior. None that I can think of. I say put his pic and his information up. What can he possibly do to defame her after his behavior?

[Mishenka]

Mishenka,

You are opening a can of worms.  I am hesitant to comment because it touches on religion and morality.  Religious and moral views vary from person to person.  What may be wrong for you may be good for another.  However, some of us could use spiritual guidance and counseling, but not here.

I will attempt to confine this to legal obligations.  Laws regarding adultery essentially are blue laws, are not enforced, and carry no weight.  The laws vary, and in some states your recent and now terminated relationship could be considered adultery.  There are other laws which may address some of the sexual acts you do to express your fond emotions for a woman.  So people can ignore the laws regarding adultery.

How did this thread get here?  If you wish to discuss this in more depth, I suggest that you start a new thread elsewhere.



 

Gator,  

I wrote this post to answer your original post speaking to this married/separated Man who cancelled meeting this woman.  I wasn't speaking to others here.  I don't know any of you that well, nor your history. I can see I've touched a few nerves, which was not my intention.  My intention was to speak simple truth, that someone might learn from it.

Convictions of the heart is what matters in a relationship. As I said, to each his own. I don't judge anyone.  God alone is the Judge. He doesn't need a jury,no do I need to defend Him.  I really don't have any interest in discussing this further in another thread. I see no value in it.  People can take my post any way they like. It won't change the truth in it. I only need to say it once.

There are absolute truths in life that we are certain of.  Gravity- what goes up, will come down. We cann't see air or wind, but we need it to breathe, without it we all die.  We have much faith in air we can't see.  We can not see electricity in the wires, but the power is there to kill us if we dare use it wrong.  We have much faith in "matter' we sit in a chair and it holds our weight.  All so simple yet no one can explain them. "A man can not mock God, he will reap what he sows and by that exact measure" In simple words , what goes around comes around. Some quote the words of Jesus and call it Karma, I call it the word of God.

The man who did this to your friend will reap just what he sows because of his actions.  Enough said,  to bad he isn't here to read your thread.  I was speaking to him specially. I don't see where any part of my post is off base. Truth is truth , lies are lies. I believe this man was deceiving your friend. He never intended to meet her this time or in the future. This was obvious to your woman and she gave fair warning well in advance of the heart ache.

I hope I have answered your questions. Feel free to jump down my throat.  That's what keeps the forum alive!  It certainly doesn't "send it to hell" as one stated. Let's keep it interesting!
Misha

[William3rd]

BillyB, you are boring the hell out of me with your what if what if what if what if where you have nothing at all to support your what if. You are in the minority here so suck it up and move on to something else.


As far as being he said, she said, that may well be at some point but which story rings true? And you dont need any more evidence here. If Mr Scumbag gets posted up, then he can either respond or not. He can whine or explain- or not.

Do you protect other social miscreants with such vigor or only guys like this? Are you two related or something?

[BillyB]

BillyB,  So based on your premise, if there is any possibility that there might be retribution by the offender if you report a crime, it's better to just keep silent?

She could get retribution by legal means. I know that is near impossible due to the nature of where they both live and the fact she doesn't have money to get justice. She has to prove he was going to reimburse her regardless of them meeting. But with proof or proof that she won in a court of law, if the guy defames her on the internet, all she has to do is show proof or the judgement from court and all who's reading will make judgement on him. I doubt the man would humiliate himself that way.

This guy has absolutely no excuse for his behavior. None that I can think of. I say put his pic and his information up. What can he possibly do to defame her after his behavior?

mspanky, would you mind participating in a test? Post full names, photos, email and contact info of every person that did you wrong from your childhood to now. Let's see how long it takes for these people to come out of the woodwork after they find themselves through Google, and see what their reaction towards you is going to be? I predict ugly from the examples I've seen. If you believed everything you hear, you would hang many people in this thread as is happening elsewhere. Life is tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid. It's just best not to learn the hard way.

William, you can keep beating your drum repeatedly that you're on the winning team or you can practice what you preach and not protect scum as you accuse me of doing. Start listing names, personal info, and photos of all who's done you wrong. This is your chance to show you're not a hypocrite.

[ScottinCrimea]

BillyB, You got it all backward and didn't answer my question.  I'm not talking at all about the woman getting retribution.  She is the VICTIM, not the PERPRETATOR.  Let me rephrase it for you:  Are you suggesting that if you are the victim of a crime by a gang member that it's better to just shut up and don't report it because the gang might come back and hurt you?  Your post today suggests just that.

[Kuna]

Well Groov,, maybe BillyB is "correct" in your eyes,  however, a man or woman who is not divorced is still considered married both morally and by law. Not to mention in God's eyes. Ultimately,  it is Him we have to answer to.  If they choose to start another fling or relationship before its final,  they are committing adultery.  We all have our own convictions and morals or immoral as this suggests.  Divorce happens in the heart long before papers are ever filed or become final.  I'm no one to judge unless they come to me for advice,  at that point I  have to call it as it is.  I have never seen anything good come out of adultery,only needless pain. People need to wise up and spend time healing or they just repeat the same old patterns and mistakes.  

Sheeesh... What is it with all the bible bashing in here lately?

Misha... yours is BY FAR the least offensive of the three BS rants I've just read this morning - but forcing ones MORAL judgements on someone else is just wrong...

[Admin]

BillyB, You got it all backward and didn't answer my question.  I'm not talking at all about the woman getting retribution.  She is the VICTIM, not the PERPRETATOR.  Let me rephrase it for you:  Are you suggesting that if you are the victim of a crime by a gang member that it's better to just shut up and don't report it because the gang might come back and hurt you?  Your post today suggests just that.

Scott,

This is the internet. As was pointed out up-thread, the only reasonable course of action the lady can take is to make a report on the internet. The likely response is a giant mud-slinging match to ensue. Who wins in an internet blood-bath? Nobody - but both get bloodied.

If the situation were one in which she could respond through a real court system, then it would be (IMO) much different. She could potentially get REAL satisfaction.

Tell you what - for those who believe the lady was REALLY wronged and should REALLY seek retribution - make her an offer to pay for her to seek a REAL legal remedy. Possibly small claims court in his home country (I think it may be Scotland). Pay for her legal fees and all the costs for her to make the claim. The guy would be exposed publicly - and if her case prevails, she would be compensated her costs.

Make it REAL.

So long as it remains in the internet realm, there is nothing REAL about it - except the potential for REAL harm through sullying of reputations.

BTW - my challenge above was not only aimed at you Scott. I meant the collective 'you' who support her.

- Dan

[TomT]

Billy,

It is never possible to predict the ramifications of a given course of action. If the girl in question is prepared for the possibility of finding herself on scam sites and she considers this to be a good trade, then she should blacklist her former correspondent by all means.

[Admin]

Billy,

It is never possible to predict the ramifications of a given course of action. If the girl in question is prepared for the possibility of finding herself on scam sites and she considers this to be a good trade, then she should blacklist her former correspondent by all means.

Good point. I believe it is referred to as "The Law of Unforeseen Consequences" - and it is alive and well on the internet.

- Dan

[BC]

Ok.. I chat a bit with a female halfway around the world.. she agrees to meet me in another country and foot the bill.  I'm left high and dry at the airport.

What's the advice I would get here?  'Suck it up and move on..'

Rightly so.

Where are the lessons to be learned? - they might be more interesting to discuss.

[ScottinCrimea]

Dan,
     It's all about giving of one's self for the common good.  Many of the great people in history have sacrificed their comfort, their reputations, in fact, their very lives for the greater good, knowing full well what the consequences of their actions would be.  If this woman feels that others would benefit and be saved the suffering that she went through knowing that one possible (though I believe in this case very unlikely) consequence would be that the man would try to smear her over the internet if she chooses to post the facts, I think we should encourage such behavior, not start telling horror stories about what could happen and writing a bunch of "what if" scenarios.  Why aren't you focusing more on the "what if's" of what could happen if she decides to keep quiet and as a result other women are treated the same, or worse, by this man?  I think your comment that the "likely" result will be a giant mud-slinging match is just more "horribilizing".

[Admin]

Dan,
     It's all about giving of one's self for the common good.  Many of the great people in history have sacrificed their comfort, their reputations, in fact, their very lives for the greater good, knowing full well what the consequences of their actions would be.  If this woman feels that others would benefit and be saved the suffering that she went through knowing that one possible (though I believe in this case very unlikely) consequence would be that the man would try to smear her over the internet if she chooses to post the facts, I think we should encourage such behavior, not start telling horror stories about what could happen and writing a bunch of "what if" scenarios.  Why aren't you focusing more on the "what if's" of what could happen if she decides to keep quiet and as a result other women are treated the same, or worse, by this man?  I think your comment that the "likely" result will be a giant mud-slinging match is just more "horribilizing".

Scott,

You may be aware - there is a term which some psychologists use called "catastrophizing." It is where someone will respond to an adversity by telling themselves about all the catastrophes which await them. It is not debilitating, but it is definitely limiting.

I don't think I was exaggerating the consequences of this lady making a blacklist report to Antidate at all. I think it is the likely, predictable, response.

Following my post suggesting some of you guys pay for a REAL legal action - I began to like that more and more. It takes it out of the internet realm. It places the issue in the hands of an 'objective' third-party. It forces REAL evidence to be produced. It offers the potential of REAL compensation for her injury. It allows ALL the objectives which those of you who promote the blacklist option, to be achieved, and more.

So far, I think is was you (Scott), KenC, William3rd who feel that blacklisting the guy is the right thing to do. How about offering up a few $$ and helping her get REAL satisfaction. Imagine the press when a solicitor (is that what they are called in Scotland?) files a claim in Scottish courts on behalf of an injured RW who seeks redress through the courts there?

I don't know. It seems like a great idea - and you may even be able to recoup whatever $$ you put into it if she is successful.

Something to consider.

- Dan

[Shadow]

The offer to put together some cash for legal action seems good, but it would be adviseable to first find out if such a case has any chance of being accepted. Going back on a promise to reimburse is not exactly solid ground, and looking at the possible consequenses for future cases there are not many countries where such a case would actually appear in court. 
On the other hand, if the guy
- knew what the amount was she spent
- made a written promise to reimburse after knowing the amount
- can be proven to be the maker of the promise
there might be a chance in a civil court.

[Admin]

The offer to put together some cash for legal action seems good, but it would be adviseable to first find out if such a case has any chance of being accepted. Going back on a promise to reimburse is not exactly solid ground, and looking at the possible consequenses for future cases there are not many countries where such a case would actually appear in court. 
On the other hand, if the guy
- knew what the amount was she spent
- made a written promise to reimburse after knowing the amount
- can be proven to be the maker of the promise
there might be a chance in a civil court.

Yep - I agree. First have to make sure she agrees to bring the action. Then need to review the written record (emails) to see if there is sufficient evidence to hold him accountable for her losses. Then need to document those losses. Of course, need to confirm his locale, and the process for bringing an action there. Standing could be a problem, but here in the US, it would not be insurmountable. Her testimony also could be problematic, but once again, here in the US they will allow telephone testimony in such instances. If there were an intermediary performing translations, that too would need to be evaluated in terms of rules of evidence.

A few hurdles to cross - none insurmountable, I don't think - but someone familiar with the specific jurisdiction would need to review and agree with all this, and more.

- Dan

[BillyB]

She is the VICTIM, not the PERPRETATOR.  Let me rephrase it for you:  Are you suggesting that if you are the victim of a crime by a gang member that it's better to just shut up and don't report it because the gang might come back and hurt you?  Your post today suggests just that.

Scott, I answered your question, she should seek legal action, but not engage in a smear campaign on the internet which could cause her more harm. If a crime happen to her by a gang member, I would suggest the same.

Dan, most likely people who say they want the RW to have justice will not finance her to get it. When it comes to asking for money to heal a wound from an act of stupidity, most people will say "no" and ridicule you when in fact you've been warned ahead of time not proceed. The RW in question was warned by Gator's woman, yet she proceeded. An act of stupidity doesn't mean she's a bad person. When it comes to stupid, we've all been there.

Tom, you make perfect sense, if she agrees to the trade off of potential having her name smeared while smearing his, she should proceed. But if it happens, I don't want to hear any crying.

Shadow, don't forget, even if there was written proof that he'd pay back the woman during a meeting, the fact is they didn't meet and the condition to get payed back wasn't met. Then the question is if he is required to pay if his reasons were valid or not. As I mentioned earlier, I would back out of a meeting with a woman if I got a call from her husband. I'd even back out if I got a demand from the woman to be in a 5 star hotel or if she starts speaking the language of a hooker or is rude as I would feel deceived by previous correspondence that she has morals, is modest and polite.

It's interesting that so many people will judge and find others guilty based on their own emotions because it just feels right after listening to one side of the story. Then recommend an act that could cause additional harm to that person. Yet when someone has done wrong to them, they will not do as they recommend because just maybe under the new circumstances that now affect themselves, they will be harmed and so they change the rules for themselves. Is it not about doing what's right by helping people and warning others to avoid the scum of the world or is it about you and preserving your good name? Surely, everyone has someone to report. People have implied it's about a good cause, doing what's right and saving the world from scum so why not do what you think is right?

80% is a good number. I think there is money to be made in creating a site where people of all walks of life and trades, including attorneys, could go and report names, personal info, and photo of all bad clients, enemies and ex friends that did them wrong. It'll be a big hit because 80% of the people agree, "it's the right thing to do". That should be the slogan of the new site to air everyone's dirty laundry.

[mspanky]

 To tell an AM to "Suck up the money " is fine. He probably spent no more than a couple of weeks pay on his trip. She probably spent many months pay. So if her average pay is $300 per month and she spent $600(or 2 months pay) it hits her much harder than the American.

  If for example someone who made 10-20x my salary  made me pay for a ticket with very hard earned and much needed money in the promise to reimburse me and not only cancelled last minute, but did'nt reimburse me even for a half I would be very upset.

    And IF in my lifetime I had so little regard for someone else's time,money,trust and effort and I disrespected them in the same way this man did, I could not be angry if someone called me out to be a thief or a scammer. I live my life in a way i do onto others in the exact way I would like them to treat me. There is no excuse in the world to treat anyone as if it's "your world and others simply live in it. You cannot be called on your actions and do not need to feel sorry for them . Those actions are from very selfish people . Perhaps he needs a reality check to what sort of harm his actions leave.

[Kvinna]

Kvinna, correct me if I'm wrong, but you mentioned on a forum once that antidate will list men that have insulted RW. Is this still true? If so, don't you think some RW had deserved it based on their actions?

yes, it is true
and decent man never insults a woman, more like he will ignore her, or you wish to discuss this?