Should she report him to Antidate?

[Gator]

We all hear some stories that reveal the sincerity of  RW and their desire to find love and get married.  And on occasion you hear of how a Western man misled such women or even took advantage of them.

My Moscow woman has a 26-yo friend who really wants to marry an European.  She is listed with Elena's Models and had been corresponding and talking with an Englishman for a couple of months.  They decided to meet; however, he did not want to come to Moscow.  She agreed to meet in Istanbul.  He is worried about scamming so he asks her to pay for her travel yet promises to repay her.  She buys the air ticket, and she asks her employer for vacation time to make the trip.

Two days before the trip he sent an SMS saying bad news is better than dishonesty.  He claimed to have a problem with work and wrote that he would not go to Istanbul.  PERIOD. 

Afterwards, he never called her, never wrote her, did not answer her emails, and did not offer to repay her for her expenses.  The tickets were nonrefundable and can not be used for a later flight – her money is gone.   

She had to take her scheduled vacation time, so she spent a week in her apartment with no money.  She has limited vacation and will not be able to take another vacation for several months.

Yes, she broke some rules.  My Moscow woman cautioned her not to do this, but the hope for love can make us take risks.  While this is not a scam in that she did not send him money, his insincerity cost her some money.  He promised to reimburse her, yet he did not.  He simply vaporized.

She is considering whether to report him to Antidate.  Should she? 

For the Newbies, Antidate is an organization operated by RW, and they name specific Western men to be avoided by RW.  It is comparable to the many blacklists of scamming RW.  Most of the listed men are accused of sex tourism.

[Jack]

        "She is considering whether to report him to Antidate.  Should she?"




           Despite what Dan will vote,... YES!

[Admin]

I guess my perspectives on this topic are becoming well-known - but in general terms, I find internet blacklists of any sort less than useless. I believe the damage they do far outweighs any positive value they provide.

Having said that - the urge to seek retribution for an injury can sometimes be unrelenting. I know. I've been there. In the instance I am thinking about, the compulsion I felt to seek retribution was overwhelming and I could not have lived with myself had I done nothing. So I acted on my compulsion, and I did, indeed, achieve a significant measure of retribution. I would probably do that same thing again in those same circumstances.

Even though I made that choice in that one instance, there are countless others in which I have NOT acted in a vengeful manner - even when I felt justified and that retribution would be easily enough achieved.

IMO the choice is made more difficult by the fact that the incident you describe, and the response to the incident, involves the internet. Very few people have the 'heart' for a full-blown internet cross-board debacle. There is just no way to 'vett' the truth. Anyone can say anything - and they do.

Is it worth it? Would they be willing to engage in a real-life legal battle if they could? If not - then it just isn't worth the potential hate-speak which they might endure.

FWIW

- Dan

PS - small point of clarification. The incident I spoke of had nothing to do with RWD and was a real-life incident which occurred years ago. I didn't want anyone thinking this was a current, or recent, issue.

[William3rd]

Yes- report him- complete with his photos and location. By now, he is probably married to another of his many ticket purchasers and couldnt care less but maybe somebody could be saved the expense, embarassment, and the waste of time, energy and emotion spent on this moron.

[Lily]

That's a sad and difficult situation.

I tried to imagine myself in a similar situation. We agreed to meet somewhere, we made bookings and bought tickets, but my situation at work changed of a sudden so I cannot go at that time. He still has his tickets and bookings in hand, has arranged his absence from business, and apparently feels abandoned and embarrassed. Of course, I would not vaporise and would use my utmost efforts to explain and excuse.

if I 'd be in the situation of that unlucky woman, may be - not sure but may be - if I cannot refund the tickets, I might have considered having the vacation just by myself and would enjoy Istanbul.

Well, she probably should report him for the fact that he broke his promise to compensate her for expenses, and for the fact of his silence and disappearance. That suggests a lowly coward. 

[BillyB]

It doesn't matter to me if she feels she needs to report the guy or not. I can't say for a fact the man is dishonest although he acts cowardly not responding to the ladies e-mail. There is a chance that the man told the truth about a problem at work and maybe he lost his job and in a financial bind and is ashamed and cut off all contact with women. That would not be my way of doing things in this situation but people act differently in difficult situations.

Unfortunately, the problem could've been avoided if the woman refused to meet men in neutral locations. We're all adults here and we know that not everybody keeps their word and everybody has lied about something in their life. The woman knew there were risks involved and she accepted the risks knowing it could backfire. Taking risks for love is okay but if the man is to love her too, he would go wherever she is, if she asks. It's best if all parties minimize risks as did the man when he did not want to send money for airfare to a woman he never met. 

If the man is reported, the greatest value of the report is not that the man's name is listed and his actions known but it is yet another reason women shouldn't meet men in neutral locations where the risk may cause too much financial burden if the man does not show besides the fact she is placing herself in a more vulnerable situation for sex tourists. So I say she should report the incident to warn other women about meeting in neutral places but she does not need to report the man's name if she doesn't wish to. Like I said earlier, he may have been honest with a problem at work and is too ashamed to talk about it. Is there any proof that he is being dishonest of his own doing?

[wiz]

The woman should report him presenting the full details, and despite my dislike of Antidate, let the women there take him to the cleaners, so other women don’t fall for his dishonest actions. He should also be reported to the AntiScam sites too. He is a scumbag.

We all here want justice for innocent and even foolish people, as in this case, but the man is a coward and a scumbag. If he was honest and a REAL man and came to hardship for whatever reason, he should not do a runner but write and explain to the woman the real circumstances and of course make sure she is reimbursed the money. There would have been no harm and never mind about her lost vacation days but he did not act honestly.

He is probably a married man who wanted a nice sex vacation abroad with a  smokinghotkova…..... but plans didn’t worked out for him. I hope his name is not Scott G..... Gator?

If my post come across very hard, in this case, is because I feel very strong about it and there is no excuse whatsoever about his behaviour. If he was afraid that she maybe was a scammer…… all he had to do is to book her ticket on line with Aeroflot and the woman would have collected the ticket in Moscow. If she did not use the ticket he could get also partial refund!

By now, I am an expert on how Aeroflot works, their terms and conditions and on how to book the cheapest ticket on line with them!

He is a scumbag and he deserves everything he will get from the Antidate women.

May I remind you that Russians don’t need a Visa to visit Turkey!

This is how I would have acted if I was in his position and let’s say that the woman was a REAL scammer.

To come and visit me in UK she needs a Visa and that costs £63 GBP ( $126) and of course needs an Invitation letter. To proceed she would have to e-mail me a copy of her international Passport. I will never pay her to get a passport in advance…cheap trick in my book…… she has to finance it herself…. and she has to wait for that money to be reimbursed to her later….if she is an honest woman. Once she has the Passport she must send me a copy so I can send her the Invitation letter and of course at the same time send her the money for the visa. When she gets the Visa then I will book her flight and advice her where to go and collect her ticket.

If she is a scammer she will take the money for the Visa and run….
So I have minimised my risk to a very small amount of money. 

But if she is an honest and Real woman then she will be here in UK with me and all will be well. I don’t think any Russian woman with common sense will ever take offence for my actions, because I don’t trust her to send the money in advance, before meeting her in person, but paid for her ticket directly to the airline!

Sandro where is your guillotine?

OK OK don't worry I have found it.....

[BillyB]

Sandro where is your guillotine?

I thought we hang people first and ask questions later. Wiz, you remember what anti date did to you and a few other's from this forum? At the time you felt their brand of justice wasn't fair and I agree.

Most likely everybody is right that this man is lowlife scum who purposely deceived one or more RW. That is my feelings exactly, but there is a small chance he did lose his job and is ashamed about it.

At a minimum, the woman should report the incident to anti date without the guy's name as a lesson to be learned by all women on what not to do with any man, not just the man in question. If we are the type of people who hang without evidence, but only speculation, then by all means list his name there and here.

[William3rd]

And OJ is still out searching for the real killers of Ron and Nicole and will continue to look every day for the rest of his life. . . .

There is no trial by jury here. And there is no criminal standard. The most reasonable conclusion is that he bailed out on her. Bailing out or not- he still owes her the money that she expended.

But then- there are a lot of cheapskates out there. Can we hear some support for welchers and cheapskates from the audience out there?

[Rvrwind]

I figure he was already maried & just playing her all along.
I agree he is a slimeball but you must agree she too was very foolish. She broke the cardinal rule.
Although she didn't in fact send him the money, she did put out money for him, which in essence amounts to the same thing. She learned a lesson, the hard way & I feel for her situation, but she did it to herself.
I don't have a difinitive answer.
What do we tell the guy's who get into this fix, suck it up & move on.
I can't let myself feel more for her in this situation than I would a man in the same situation so can only give the same advice I would give the man. Gender must remain neutral, just because she is a woman that does not entitle her to more symapathy than what we would give a man under the same circumstances.

[Misha]

Anti-date could provide a useful service if they had their own "ten commandments" or rules to follow to avoid bad dates and unscrupulous men. One of these is that women should never pay for a trip before meeting a man unless they truly want to go there, have the money to spare and are willing to go on a vacation on their own if he bails or can't make it. If a woman has the money to go to Turkey and is willing to there on her own simply as a vacation even if never goes or pays, then she loses little and gets a vacation and some time on a beach. If she spent her last rouble and can't even go on the vacation, then she should not have taken the risk.

[ScottinCrimea]

If we give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say that his financial "crisis" was real and everything was above-board up to that time, we still can't justify his actions after this.  To just bail out on someone and vaporize shows no class at all.  I'm sure he was aware of the impact this would have on her, both emotionally and financially, but he doesn't seem to care.  I think that he ought to be reported, not out of vengence, but out of concern for other women that he may be communicationg with.  I believe a simple statement of the story and the facts, without any one-sided comments or judgements, would be perfectly appropriate.  Those who read it can draw their own conclusions.  And yes, I think his name should be included.

[BillyB]

Bailing out or not- he still owes her the money that she expended.

It it were me, I would promise to reimburse the woman once I get another job and back on my feet if indeed I did lose my job to give a RW the excuse of not showing up. Sometimes life sucks. I've done some minor earthwork before without a written contract and it came back to bite me in the ass because the client wouldn't pay.

Scott, I actually think it would be counter productive for the ladies of anti date to have the guy's name posted. It may give the women a false sense of hope that men other than that man is okay to trust. The warning should be for women to avoid neutral meetings with any man they never met, period. Unless of course they can afford to take the risk themself.

Romantic/exotic vacations should be taken with boyfriends/girlfriends and fiances/fiancees and husbands and wives, never with strangers met through cyberspace.

And OJ is still out searching for the real killers of Ron and Nicole and will continue to look every day for the rest of his life. . . .
 

What OJ needs is a new catchy slogan to get out of his latest crime. "I was trying to take back my sh!t, so you must acquit."

[wiz]

I thought we hang people first and ask questions later. Wiz, you remember what anti date did to you and a few other's from this forum? At the time you felt their brand of justice wasn't fair and I agree.

Most likely everybody is right that this man is lowlife scum who purposely deceived one or more RW. That is my feelings exactly, but there is a small chance he did lose his job and is ashamed about it.

At a minimum, the woman should report the incident to anti date without the guy's name as a lesson to be learned by all women on what not to do with any man, not just the man in question. If we are the type of people who hang without evidence, but only speculation, then by all means list his name there and here.

Billy

You know I always respect your views and I take care to understand exactly what you say before answering any of your comments and also of the other people.

Gator made his post at 1.50 AM GMT and I happened to be reading the board at the time, thought long about it carefully and I posted at 10.35 GMT. Before posting I put myself into his shoes and consider what I would have done if I had lost my job but had promised to pay this poor woman the money. Would I come clean to her and try to pay her back the money or would I do a runner and be a scumbag?

I am sure you would agree that the answer is simple, I should have told her about my circumstances and promised one way or another to pay her back as soon as I could. He simply, according to Gator's comments Vanished , which is very dishonest act.

I am sorry but there is no excuse at all about his dishonest act.

I am not a friend of Antidate and I would appreciate if we don't make reference to my case with that board please.

This case has nothing to do with gender and the same rules should apply for both sexes. It has to do with honesty. The woman, I said before, was foolish to take him on his word and now she has paid dearly her mistake.

GATOR

Can you please answer with a YES or NO if his name is Scott. G?

If it is this person then there will be many ramifications in connection with the previous case about Natasha.... who was accussed been a scammer.

I am in possetion of his details, email, work name, position and tell numbers and from what I understand he is married.

It is my view that we should also start examining the dubious practises of various Antiscam sites and recomment those who have clear honest policies before naming a person as a scammer.

[William3rd]

The facts are-

Scumbag engages in internet relationship of some length with girl. The relationship "blossoms."  Scumbag makes plans to meet girl in exotic locale. Tells girl to spend her own money for tickets and he will pay her back later. Scumbag cancels trip with girl on short notice with no explanation and never communicates with girl again.

The reasonable conclusions are-

Scumbag didnt care about his internet love one iota since he never bothered to explain himself or communicate again.

Scumbag didnt go out of pocket one dime on his relationship but expected girl to.

Scumbag had to be aware of the economic differences of the countries and what a hardship he was asking for.

Sounds like a slimeball version of Write Many, Visit One. . . . .

Unreasonable conclusions are-

he lost his job and was just sooo ashamed.

He had any benevolent intentions

He didnt go on vacation with someone.

Get the rope- I smell a lynching!!!

[Admin]

GATOR

Can you please answer with a YES or NO if his name is Scott. G?

If it is this person then there will be many ramifications in connection with the previous case about Natasha.... who was accussed been a scammer.

I am in possetion of his details, email, work name, position and tell numbers and from what I understand he is married.

It is my view that we should also start examining the dubious practises of various Antiscam sites and recomment those who have clear honest policies before naming a person as a scammer.

wiz,

It seems you have some background information which most here are not privy to.

From what little I think I know about the situation (one must always remember - this *is* the internet, hence, nothing can be relied upon completely) - I am not confident all is what it may seem to be.

I want to be cautious about ANY rush to judgment - and I caution everyone that it is unwise to engage in a witchhunt.

Best would be to let the principals resolve the issues on their own.

- Dan

[Jazzyclassy]

I voted No!

He did a wrong thing, he lied to her and said that wanted to meet her and then smsed her that he would not go there cos of work . We all know it is a lie, but technically he did do a bad thing, he smsed her telling he wont come, some people never even sms , when person comes to a different country and is waiting for him/her the other person can never appear, so it could have been worse for her, at least she did not go to that Istanbul full of horny wild men alone, so she was saved by God to stay at home, I agree she lost money , but that will teach her to be cautious and prudent while starting any international communication. It might sound a bit harsh , but  no money would replace her safety, let her lose money but be safe at home.

It is not that story when she needs to report about him on Antidate, as  I assume they did not communicate for a long time so that she had no time to fall in love with him and she was not broken hearted, of course she is upset and very disappointed , but she should remember that it is  not very good to revenge in her particular case, better to forget about him and move on.

He did a wrong thing everybody understands that  but it is not in person's power to punish him for this, God will do that for her

Plus he did not spoil her reputation and by posting his details on Antidate site she will completely ruin his record and none will be trusting him and do we really know his reasons for not coming to meet up with her, maybe he really wanted to meet up with her and then realised he did not like her that much , or was coward enough to go or anything else, that is his problem , he was wrong to inform her about not coming to meet for so late, when she already bought the tickets, but he does not deserve to be put on shame almost for good and thus none would trust him in the internet.

So personally I think we should always try and give other people another chances to improve, or at least not to be in a role of punisher , as we are all sinners

Plus will she ever feel better that she put him on Antidate site? will it benefit her dignity and pride??? I doubt , if she is a sensible woman she wont do that

[wiz]

Dan

William put the case very clearly with out the information I have in my hands about a person.......

Gator has not confirmed if it is the same person or not and I am not going to say anything more until this is verified.

Of course you realise what the ramifications are if it is the same person!

I am fully aware that this is the internet and I am not prepared to take any action until we know his ID.

At the moment the case is clear...........

Willian your Honour thank you for your summise of the case.

The decision is up to......

[Shadow]

Should she report him with name and pictures ? No.
Should she inquire if any other women had negative experiences with the same guy ? Yes.

It could be a single incident where the guy really had a problem. In that case,even if his actions were less than honorable, he should not be hanged. I am not against blacklists, although I share the opinion of Dan that they are inviting false reports.
A blacklist should not publish someone on a first ambiguous report, but should base it on clear reports that the person  which is portrayed in a picture is the person who has repeatedly been deceiving.

As noted, she made mistakes as well. Revenge is always a bad advisor.

[wiz]

Jazzy

Sometimes you come up with very good comments but now you are on the  completely wrong direction!

Sorry all what you said is just waffle excuses..........

As you can see the majority of people have voted  and you know what is the result!


Edited by wiz to keep Dan Happy.

Dan relax I will not make any assusptions or rush judgements.

Gator has not replied yet!



SHADOW.

We all based our judgement on Gator's report and comments and we have no doubt about his sincerity and honest reporting and judgement.

[Admin]

Jazzy

Sometimes you come up with very good comments but now you are on the  completely wrong direction!

Sorry all what you said is just waffle excuses..........

As you can see the majority of people have voted  and you know what is the result!

Let me ask you a very hypothetical question.

Suppose it was you in her place and you acted foolishly and paid for that holiday ........and today you discovered this person had done the same or acted dishonestly  to another woman too........

Would you report his case so to make aware other women to avoid him?

SHADOW.

We all based our judgement on Gator's report and comments and we have no doubt about his sincerity and honest reporting and judgement.

wiz,

I suggest you give it a rest. You are beginning to make some rash assumptions. At this point, there is NOTHING to connect the incident reported by Gator to any other incident.

- Dan

[William3rd]

Would of, could of, should of.

Name and photo for sure. With a statement of exactly what occurred.

No second chances. This is exactly the behavior that should be reported.

If we add in the assumptions that are not made, then there wouldnt be a story to report. If the line were added at the end that scumbag had lost his job and told her that he couldnt make the trip, there is no story here. Instead, some folks add that sentence anyway and base their judgment on the assumptions that can not be drawn by what are the facts. Which is why folks like OJ, Michael Jackson, Phil Spector, etc. still walk the streets among

Thanks to the audience for supporting the welchers of the world. . .

[Mishenka]

How can we judge when we only hear one side of the story. The man is not here to defend himself.   Yes it is only the internet and cant be factual. so, one has to say, excuse me, and walk away.  I agree with Jazzy,, "vengeance is mine says the Lord, I will repay"  So let God deal with the situation.  It's not for me to judge anyone. 

[Jazzyclassy]

How can we judge when we only hear one side of the story. The man is not here to defend himself.   Yes it is only the internet and cant be factual. so, one has to say, excuse me, and walk away.  I agree with Jazzy,, "vengeance is mine says the Lord, I will repay"  So let God deal with the situation.  It's not for me to judge anyone. 

I support this as well

I did not read the other posts all I read was the first Gator's post and I gave my opinion, I never knew this person was doing this thing to other ladies, and even if so , I do not know if that's the whole thing is true, understand me correctly , so why judge a person you have no clue about and be a punisher, maybe some people have their occupation to be punisher, but that's definately not for me, and those people die hard and they will pay for being prosecutors of others, who we are to give a verdict to this or that person really? we are not Gods , so I suggest Wiz you really better calm down, you surprise me with your negative emotions and strange desire to please Gator!

Plus remember yourself nearly being a star of Antidate site and 2tallbill as well , so you think it is cool to do such things to people and put a stamp on them for the other people to believe from the start that they are scammers???

I do not get you Wiz!

[wiz]

I suggest Wiz you really better calm down, you surprise me with your negative emotions and strange desire to please Gator!

Plus remember yourself nearly being a star of Antidate site and 2tallbill as well , so you think it is cool to do such things to people and put a stamp on them for the other people to believe from the start that they are scammers???

I do not get you Wiz!

Jazzy

I am not here to please anybody.

I expressed my views according to the same post you also read from Gator.

According to your post you have not read other member's posts so you have not considered  their opinions, before making your own statement.

I said before don't make reference to my problems with Antidate, I am not a fun of that site..... I am still a star there from time to time...but my case has nothing to do or have any connection with this case.

Just remember the man done a runner.... vanished!