What should woman do?

[Admin]

Yes, exactly. And we already get complaints that girls have difficulties to have correspondence with men on the dating sites because men are scared that she may be scammer just because she is russian.

And the counterpoint to that is that many RW have fallen victim to the claims that AM are all sex tourists.

You see - these sorts of outrageous claims are merely sensationalized to draw attention. Nobody wins with these exaggerations.

- Dan

[Fiorella]

And the counterpoint to that is that many RW have fallen victim to the claims that AM are all sex tourists.

You see - these sorts of outrageous claims are merely sensationalized to draw attention. Nobody wins with these exaggerations.

- Dan

I don't know about any case when RW declined correspondence with an american because they are all sex-tourists. Some women don't want american because they don't want to move so far.

[Admin]

I don't know about any case when RW declined correspondence with an american because they are all sex-tourists. Some women don't want american because they don't want to move so far.

OK - but we could agree that there are exaggerations which are NOT accurate - right?

For instance - one exaggeration is; "All RW are scammers!" Another exaggeration is; "All AM are sex tourists!"

You would agree that BOTH are NOT true - correct?

- Dan

[Kvinna]

Hmmm ... I think maybe this addresses a basic question - "What is the mission/objective of Antidate?"
I know that I had presumed it was a response to the blacklist sites which popped-up and began listing profiles of RW - some of them inappropriately. I understood that it grew into a site to raise awareness of RW to the possible pitfalls of WM who were NOT sincere. Maybe you can describe the mission of Antidate more clearly or succinctly, and bring us up-to-date on what it is Antidate intends to accomplish?
- Dan

Dan, your questions lead us too far away from Fiorela's subject
anyway I want to ask you; how we can reach Saul Hudson
I heard some rumors, Dan, he is your good chum

[Admin]

Dan, your questions lead us too far away from Fiorela's subject
anyway I want to ask you; how we can reach Saul Hudson
I heard some rumors, Dan, he is your good chum

Kvinna,

The question initially raised was; "What should woman do" - and then went on to describe a scenario. My response was - cease all communications. The remainder of the topic has evolved from that beginning.

Re: Saul Hudson. Your "rumors" are unfounded. I have never exchanged a single email with Saul Hudson, nor any other form of contact.

- Dan

[Serebro]

What was your response? Did you cease communications? Did you report them to the operator of the site? Did you report them to a blacklist site? Did anyone ever actually try (or succeed) to blacklist you somewhere?

- Dan

Yes, I wrote to the operators, nothing was done to the man and I didn't get any response at all.
No, I didn't report those men to the blacklists, I think it's for more serious cases.

Moreover when I was insulted by one of the members of RWD and reported to the moderators nothing was done to the member and the personal offence is still on one of the pages... who cares... I wonder why Serebro removed her photo and her profile info?!!!!!Let me think.. I have no idea why...maybe she just doesn't like to be insulted by the members of RWD who don't even have their photos in their profiles...


Why I didn't create a special thread about it?! Because I don't care!
If I am on any blacklists?!I don't know, maybe, but I don't care!!!!!!

[Admin]

Yes, I wrote to the operators, nothing was done to the man and I didn't get any response at all.
No, I didn't report those men to the blacklists, I think it's for more serious cases.

Moreover when I was insulted by one of the members of RWD and reported to the moderators nothing was done to the member and the personal offence is still on one of the pages... who cares... I wonder why Serebro removed her photo and her profile info?!!!!!Let me think.. I have no idea why...maybe she just doesn't like to be insulted by the members of RWD who don't even have their photos in their profiles...


Why I didn't create a special thread about it?! Because I don't care!
If I am on any blacklists?!I don't know, maybe, but I don't care!!!!!!

Serebro,

I just went through my PM's, and I found three from you which were a response to a question I asked you about some cross-posted material. There were no complaints in any of those PM's.

I then went through all the "Report to Moderator" reports and found one of yours in which you complained about the use of an insulting Russian term, but you did not mention which term you found insulting. The post you reference *has* been edited.

You have never reported anything remotely close to the behavior you describe.

- Dan

[Serebro]

Serebro,

I just went through my PM's, and I found three from you which were a response to a question I asked you about some cross-posted material. There were no complaints in any of those PM's.

I then went through all the "Report to Moderator" reports and found one of yours in which you complained about the use of an insulting Russian term, but you did not mention which term you found insulting. The post you reference *has* been edited.

You have never reported anything remotely close to the behavior you describe.

- Dan

I have just found the "edited" post
 "Re: Bringing the family
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2007, 12:19:21 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh yes, reality is something most Russians don't like rubbed in their faces and I've met more than one with Serebro's inferiority complex.  Believe me people, I would never point these things out to E!  Well ok maybe a little bit because she complains how it is there too, but no way would I ever slam Russia in front of my girl.  That's like telling an AW she needs to lose weight.   

But, I'm never one on here to withhold or slant my opinion to avoid hurting feelings so I will report as I wish.  And everyone is welcome to comment as they wish.  Serebro Kakashka, the personal attacks are worthless, they mean nothing to me, I'm a strong man.  Sorry for you I'm already taken.   
 
 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 12:43:14 AM by DKMM »  "
I have found the word " piece of shit"offensive and I told that in my next post
"Re: Bringing the family
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2007, 01:55:55 AM » 

DKMM
Quote
Serebro Kakashka
Well, as I see personal insults are ok here. DKMM, next time you use some russian word look its meaning in the dictionary.
"
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5880.15

So it was the end of September and it hasn't been edited, Dan, DKMM hasn't been warned or banned or something.... so it looks like all forums are just for men's pleasure!
 

[Serebro]

Wow, it looks like the word is that offensive in english that system even replaced it with another word.

[Mishenka]

Yes, both - they threat and they post.

Fiorella, spacibo!
Pajaulsta,  link me top this post so I can see for myself?  It should be easy to remove this post. None of these web sites are secure at all and very easy to slip in the back door and change info without anyone ever knowing.

Misha

[Admin]

I have just found the "edited" post
 "Re: Bringing the family
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2007, 12:19:21 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh yes, reality is something most Russians don't like rubbed in their faces and I've met more than one with Serebro's inferiority complex.  Believe me people, I would never point these things out to E!  Well ok maybe a little bit because she complains how it is there too, but no way would I ever slam Russia in front of my girl.  That's like telling an AW she needs to lose weight.   

But, I'm never one on here to withhold or slant my opinion to avoid hurting feelings so I will report as I wish.  And everyone is welcome to comment as they wish.  Serebro Kakashka, the personal attacks are worthless, they mean nothing to me, I'm a strong man.  Sorry for you I'm already taken.   
 
 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 12:43:14 AM by DKMM »  "
I have found the word " piece of *snip*"offensive and I told that in my next post
"Re: Bringing the family
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2007, 01:55:55 AM » 

DKMM
Quote
Serebro Kakashka
Well, as I see personal insults are ok here. DKMM, next time you use some russian word look its meaning in the dictionary.
"
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5880.15

So it was the end of September and it hasn't been edited, Dan, DKMM hasn't been warned or banned or something.... so it looks like all forums are just for men's pleasure!
 

OK - so for a quick recap.

* You claimed that men had threatened to blacklist you if you did not give them photos of you.
* I asked what actions you took when that happened.
* You then claimed that you were "insulted' here at RWD, insinuating that the insult had been of the type you were previously claiming.
* I went through all the posts and found nothing which was even remotely close to someone threatening you - and I reported that.
* You now return with dredging up a post which contained a single Russian word which apparently insulted you. When you reported the post, you did not state what word you felt was an insult. I guess you assumed the Moderators have an understanding of Russian insults - or something.

The simple facts are - you were NEVER threatened here at RWD. If you were, it is not something you made anyone aware about.

That you exchanged insults with someone in a thread here is NOT at all the same as what you implied in your post.

- Dan

[Admin]

Fiorella, spacibo!
Pajaulsta,  link me top this post so I can see for myself?  It should be easy to remove this post. None of these web sites are secure at all and very easy to slip in the back door and change info without anyone ever knowing.

Misha

Mishenka,

Please write me offline (PM) and tell me more.

- Dan

[Serebro]

OK - so for a quick recap.

* You claimed that men had threatened to blacklist you if you did not give them photos of you.
* I asked what actions you took when that happened.
* You then claimed that you were "insulted' here at RWD, insinuating that the insult had been of the type you were previously claiming.
* I went through all the posts and found nothing which was even remotely close to someone threatening you - and I reported that.
* You now return with dredging up a post which contained a single Russian word which apparently insulted you. When you reported the post, you did not state what word you felt was an insult. I guess you assumed the Moderators have an understanding of Russian insults - or something.

The simple facts are - you were NEVER threatened here at RWD. If you were, it is not something you made anyone aware about.

That you exchanged insults with someone in a thread here is NOT at all the same as what you implied in your post.

- Dan

I haven't told you about a thread on
RWD, I told you about the way this works, when nobody including moderators really cares about your posts, insults , threats  or something. So I don't care about this too now, to me it doesn't important if you are going to remove DKMM's post you are not, you may just make a thread and name in "come here to insult serebro", I don't care about it:come and insult.
Yes, in the report to the moderator I didn't tell which word I found offensive, but I told that in my next post in the thread itself,
and yes, that's really strange why a moderator on Russian Women Discussion would know some russian..I agree, this is ridiculous!
PS:

That you exchanged insults with someone in a thread here is NOT at all the same as what you implied in your post.

I haven't exchanged insults and  I haven't called DKMM a piece of shиt
In fact , the perfonal insult on the forum where I had friends and where I posted my photo and my personal information was of greater importance than a threat to be reported somewhere where unknown people will see me

[Admin]

I haven't told you about a thread on
RWD, I told you about the way this works, when nobody including moderators really cares about your posts, insults , threats  or something. So I don't care about this too now, to me it doesn't important if you are going to remove DKMM's post you are not, you may just make a thread and name in "come here to insult serebro", I don't care about it:come and insult.
Yes, in the report to the moderator I didn't tell which word I found offensive, but I told that in my next post in the thread itself,
and yes, that's really strange why a moderator on Russian Women Discussion would know some russian..I agree, this is ridiculous!
PS:I haven't exchanged insults and  I haven't called DKMM a piece of shиt
In fact , the perfonal insult on the forum where I had friends and where I posted my photo and my personal information was of greater importance than a threat to be reported somewhere where unknown people will see me

Serebro,

In the case of the post which insulted you, if you have been clearer in your complaint, it may have received more attention. Fact is - we *do* care about RWD members and we *do* try to keep insults to a minimum. Having said that - we also expect members to behave as adults and, as stated in our Vision and in the Terms of Service, members are expected to exercise self-moderation and retain responsibility for their posts.

One thing I can state with absolute certainty - if you had ever been threatened in the manner you described upthread, and reported it here at RWD, it would have met with an extremely vigorous response.

- Dan

[BillyB]

What should do woman when someone post her as a scammer if she declined to send her naked photos or have sex with that person?

First a woman should politely ask the anti scam site to remove her from the listing unless they can provide proof of an email with header that shows it came from her acting as a scammer. If they don't provide proof and keep her listed as a scammer, she could come to this forum and we will communicate with the anti scam site. They may provide us proof or remove her by listening to reason from the guys that do business with the agencies that the anti scam site relies on for money. If they don't listen, we will rip them a new a@@hole.

Here's a hot tip for anti date to tell all their women. When a man sends you sexually laced letters or nude photos, DELETE the letter and do not engage in further communication with the morally bankrupt man. Do not even write back to him to get into a pissing contest or simply scold him because it could make things worse.

[Mishenka]

Listen to BillyB,  he gives good advice!


  Here's a hot tip for antidate to tell ALL their women. When a man sends you sexually laced letters or nude photos, DELETE the letter and do not engage in further communication with the morally bankrupt man. Do not even write back to him to get into a pissing contest or simply scold him because it could make things worse

Speak up Billy, so everyone can hear.

Mishenka

[catzenmouse]

You are not right - we are always open to the dialogue with western men, don't forget that girls on antidate forum are either married to the western men or are being in searches of a decent men for make a family. And of course you are our target audience because you want either to marry to russian women or are already married.

And it is YOUR future wives must go through all that -  lies, dirty attacks, porno-photos on the letters, and so on. How do you think would it make some influence on her at least on emotions?

Whom we should to adress?

There are many excellent questions in this topic already! Sorry if this is addressed later in the posts but I have not had a chance to finish reading the whole thread yet.

Fiorella,

 I sincerely believe that we can make more progress towards bringing the information to the men and women who need to know it if we work together. In many ways AntiDate and RWD share the same values and goals. We both want to help the sincere people in their quest and to shed some light into the agency hype and dishonest business practices.

 Those of us here who are married to a Russian woman (and most of the ones who are looking to marry one) are very disgusted by the behaviors of these type of men just as we are by the women who act in the same manners. We come to RWD to learn about the issues and to help others with information about what we have encountered before. When someone comes here with less than genuine intentions the membership here will rip them up and send them on their way quite quickly.

 If you and Elen and Kvinna (and the other ladies of AD) would be willing to spend some time to find some avenues where RWD and AD have these common goals I think there would be a great benefit to the community as a whole and also less animosity between us. Something like the Standards of Behavior's for men and women or the CMA (Certified Marriage Agencies (which has been WAY under utilized)) could benefit greatly from your input and help.

Ken

[Fiorella]

Hmmm ... I think maybe this addresses a basic question - "What is the mission/objective of Antidate?"

I know that I had presumed it was a response to the blacklist sites which popped-up and began listing profiles of RW - some of them inappropriately. I understood that it grew into a site to raise awareness of RW to the possible pitfalls of WM who were NOT sincere. Maybe you can describe the mission of Antidate more clearly or succinctly, and bring us up-to-date on what it is Antidate intends to accomplish?

I am not certain, but I *think* it may be more accurate to say that some of the ladies at AD are in relations with WM, but I also know of quite a few who are not.

- Dan

Good morning to all 

Well, antidate first was created as an answer to openly discriminative actions of one dating site. With a time it did grow up to an informational portal for women about anything related to dating and relationships. As the major theme is the international dating, most of women who are antidate members are either married or in relationships or want to marry a foreign men.

[Fiorella]

Kvinna,

The question initially raised was; "What should woman do" - and then went on to describe a scenario. My response was - cease all communications. The remainder of the topic has evolved from that beginning.

- Dan

So, do you think the best woman can do is just to ignore the fact that she can be posted as a scammer same as the fact that she is already posted?

[Mishenka]

Fiorella, could you PM the link to this post you talk about so I can see it first hand and have it deleted?

Misha

[Admin]

Good morning to all 

Well, antidate first was created as an answer to openly discriminative actions of one dating site. With a time it did grow up to an informational portal for women about anything related to dating and relationships. As the major theme is the international dating, most of women who are antidate members are either married or in relationships or want to marry a foreign men.

Fiora,

Can you please describe the Antidate 'Mission Statement' ? For example, some of the questions I have are:

* Who is your target audience? RW only? Men and Women from the FSU? RW and WM? Men and Women from Mars? You get the idea ....

* What issues are the MOST important to AD?

* What value do you bring to your target audience?

* What principles does AD hold dear?

These questions are all normally answered in a Mission Statement. In our case, we call it the RWD Vision, and you can read it here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=33

So, do you think the best woman can do is just to ignore the fact that she can be posted as a scammer same as the fact that she is already posted?

As I wrote you in one of my early responses, the root cause (IMO) of the problem is that some 'blacklist' sites operate with no ethics and no integrity.

If you solve THAT problem, then the issue you raise goes away entirely. If you do not solve THAT problem, then you are forever faced with reacting to issue after issue after issue.

How do you solve THAT problem? It is difficult to offer ideas without knowing much more of the specifics.

WmGO offered a potential solution - and that is, if there is an injured party, that person would take legal action against the offending site. If successful, it takes one more corrupt player off the table.

- Dan

[Fiorella]

Fiorella, spacibo!
Pajaulsta,  link me top this post so I can see for myself?  It should be easy to remove this post. None of these web sites are secure at all and very easy to slip in the back door and change info without anyone ever knowing.

Misha

It is extreme solution and then you cannot be sure that tomorrow someone will not do the same with your site. We should find legal way to resolve this problem.

[Fiorella]

First a woman should politely ask the anti scam site to remove her from the listing unless they can provide proof of an email with header that shows it came from her acting as a scammer. If they don't provide proof and keep her listed as a scammer, she could come to this forum and we will communicate with the anti scam site. They may provide us proof or remove her by listening to reason from the guys that do business with the agencies that the anti scam site relies on for money. If they don't listen, we will rip them a new a@@hole.

BillyB,
of course it all was done, and we still wait for Saul Hudson to appear and react as it seems he left his site for some reason.

[Fiorella]

Fiorella,

 I sincerely believe that we can make more progress towards bringing the information to the men and women who need to know it if we work together. In many ways AntiDate and RWD share the same values and goals. We both want to help the sincere people in their quest and to shed some light into the agency hype and dishonest business practices.

 Those of us here who are married to a Russian woman (and most of the ones who are looking to marry one) are very disgusted by the behaviors of these type of men just as we are by the women who act in the same manners. We come to RWD to learn about the issues and to help others with information about what we have encountered before. When someone comes here with less than genuine intentions the membership here will rip them up and send them on their way quite quickly.

 If you and Elen and Kvinna (and the other ladies of AD) would be willing to spend some time to find some avenues where RWD and AD have these common goals I think there would be a great benefit to the community as a whole and also less animosity between us. Something like the Standards of Behavior's for men and women or the CMA (Certified Marriage Agencies (which has been WAY under utilized)) could benefit greatly from your input and help.

Ken

Yes, Ken, I agree with you. And may be it is a time to do something with "antiscam" industry?

[catzenmouse]

Yes, Ken, I agree with you. And may be it is a time to do something with "antiscam" industry?

Hi Fiorella,

 What kinds of things do you have in mind? Being internet based and registered in multiple countries it would be very difficult (time consuming and expensive) to follow a legal path.

 I guess there could be an anti-antiscam site which would expose some of the underhanded and/or inept practices of these sites. How would this kind of site be considered any more credible than the antiscam sites themselves?

 I'm all for bringing honesty, openness and fairness to these sites (if that is possible) and would love to hear about the options for doing so. I currently don't have a lot (almost none right now) of free time but would be willing to help out if I can.

Ken