Child in England.

[jb]

So many train wrecks....  Why don't I have enough film in my camera to record them all?

[acrzybear]

JB

Digital is the way to go-just look at the clarity of the latest wreck

[ISORW]

Well in that case, so many train wrecks, not enough SD and micro SD cards to record them all...

[Misha]

5. Settled
A person is settled in the United Kingdom if ordinarily resident here without any restriction, under the immigration laws, on their maximum length of stay. 
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/nationality/advice/bn1?view=Standard

I the category "settled" equivalent to being a permanent resident in Canada or having a Green Card in the United States?

[pk-uk]

And yes she now understands how things work, and that in the USA fathers also have rights with children.

Is that like in the UK, where the father has the right to pay maintenance?   

I thought it depended on which state you were in - or has it become radically diffetent in the last 12 months?

Regards,

Paul

[HiTech]

Scott I think far beyond what you even think. I want things to be on very solid grounds long before we are ever married. Crap, we are speaking about his stuff one year before we go into anything not reversible.  Anyone who thinks this is a rushed into train wreck is a clueless dolt. They also wish to just bury their head and hope for the best. And not look about all the what ifs when things go south.

And you can be dam sure I speak to my lady about the what ifs when things go bad. I want her to know all about life in the USA, her rights, I wish to know every one of her concerns and I tell her ever one of mine.

And no this is not playing chess in any way, there has been no bartering.  It is quit simply exchanging concerns and working out life together.

I am not a fan of cheer leading on this board , but some of the people here have turned into a sniping peanut gallery who only wish to hear them self speak and not try help people on this board or post any substance.

[pk-uk]

I the category "settled" equivalent to being a permanent resident in Canada or having a Green Card in the United States?

I think it means having Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR).  Not sure how it relates/corresponds to Green Card.

For a FSU spouse that usually means a two-year wait.  In the interim they get Further Leave to Remain (FLR), which lasts two years and then has to be renewed.  However, ILR is not automatic and if unlikely, one can end up with an FLR extension.

After 3 years in the UK they can apply for citizenship.  In general, it's 5 years for others (except dependant children under 18).

Regards,

Paul

[Shadow]

Scott I think far beyond what you even think. I want things to be on very solid grounds long before we are ever married. Crap, we are speaking about his stuff one year before we go into anything not reversible.  Anyone who thinks this is a rushed into train wreck is a clueless dolt. They also wish to just bury their head and hope for the best. And not look about all the what ifs when things go south.

If you have to spend a lot of time on what will happen when things go south, it means that either you are not ready for marriage or concentrating on the wrong things.
You state that it will be at least one year before you will go in to something not reversible, and I think that your female friend is aware of this. I hope that until you go in to something that is not reversible, there will also not be any irreversible money stream going in to her direction. As you know, some Ukrainian women are very practical when it comes to accepting cash.

I hope that you will show us wrong, but the signals you are giving from what you reveal are not giving a lot of hope.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Well it sounds to me there is no trust.  Everyone is trying to protect themselves and I fail to see how you can build a family based on that type of reasoning.  I know men have lost money in divorce.  I personally don't care because I can always make more.  I would always want my wife to be taken care of because I love her.  No matter if we divorced or not.  I want her to feel comfortable knowing she isn't going to get screwed over when she moves to another country but will be more secured.

I guess some of us just don't get it.   



Thomas

[jb]

That clueless dolt would be me.   I guess the insistence on a pre-nup was the tip off. 

Before people go raising a red flag, this was brought up by her a few days after I raised the issue that I will be wanting a prenup. My view is simple on prenups, you have one no matter if you write it or you uses the one that is written by the state you live in.

And the "you write it" up yourself further leads me astray.  If you have to write the damned thing yourself, instead of hiring the necessary two attorneys to get something that has a snowball's chance of standing up in a divorce court, well, IMO you probably don't have enough assets worth protecting to warrant getting a pre-nup.   It seems to me you have injected a measure of distrust into the relationship yourself by asking for something that you seem to know so little about.   The bottom line here is that this woman no longer trusts you.

I'm not raising red flags, I just want a good seat in the viewing stands to observe the oncoming train wreck.

[HiTech]

And the clueless dolt continues with taking a simple shot at "You write it" to be literal.

[jb]

You are right, there is a "clueless dolt" here,,, but I really don't think you are pointing that finger in the right direction.   You state you are a year away from doing anything irreversible, I predict you will not marry this woman, and I further predict it will be she, not you, who calls a halt to the proceedings.   I rarely write "I told you so" posts when things go south for a relationship, but in your case I think I'll make an exception.  And will do so with great relish. 

[HiTech]

Thanks for all the ill will jb. I can just feel the love and concern you have for people.
And quite frankly anyone who would enjoy someone else pain as you have just stated does not deserve any respect.

[groovlstk]

HT, it seems to me you've been around the block a few times, with multiple trips and - if I remember correctly - breaking off a "serious" relationship w/a woman who was simply using you.

Why are you fumbling around like a rookie? The members here can only comment on your situation based on what you tell us, and everything that I see w/your relationship with this hot young thang screams "danger, Will Robinson!" If you're at least a year away from doing a K1, then why are you discussing her options should your marriage flame out at some point? In another thread, didn't you post a question about wedding dresses? So you're not planning to propose to her for a year, yet you're discussing wedding dresses w/her and making sure she knows all her rights when she arrives in the US?  It's impossible to tell if you're the player or the one being played, and probably it doesn't matter.

When you write stuff like this:

She wants to have our children born in England, I.E. just move to England for 1 month 

Your frustration w/her is because you think her assertion is an old wives' tale, not to mention the confounding logistics in planning such a visit to the UK to make her happy. The frustration of the people advising you is that you should rather be thinking, "why is she so concerned about asserting her rights when we've spent one trip together and are supposedly still in the initial stages of dating?"

I'm simply amazed, time and again, to see how much crap guys are willing to put up with for a pretty face...

[ScottinCrimea]

Well it sounds to me there is no trust.  Everyone is trying to protect themselves and I fail to see how you can build a family based on that type of reasoning.  I know men have lost money in divorce.  I personally don't care because I can always make more.  I would always want my wife to be taken care of because I love her.  No matter if we divorced or not.  I want her to feel comfortable knowing she isn't going to get screwed over when she moves to another country but will be more secured.

I guess some of us just don't get it.   
Thomas

I tend to agree with Thomas.  I'm not a fan of pre-nups at all unless there are extended family holdings or something similar.  This type of bartering before a marriage leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  I was married for 17 years the first time and even after things went bad, she was still the mother of my children and had been a part of working to build my career so there was no question about doing what was right and giving her a fair share.  A pre-nup would have made no difference.  With my current wife I went into it with a 100% commitment.  Right now all of our property in Ukraine is in her name.  At any time she could have left me and walked away with everything if that was what she wanted, but at no time have I worried about this.  Even if she had, there would have been no regrets.  I would be happy that she and her daughter were taken care of and I can always make more money.  It's no big deal to me.

I am  a lttle disturbed to hear the comments of some here.  They are big fans of a pre-nup when it comes to protecting what is important to them and keeps them in control of how much their wife gets if and when they split, but when a woman considers what she might need to rebuild her own life if things go bad, they jump all over her. Sure, you can say that of course you would take care of her, but I have seen way too many cases where men have said this and as soon as she leaves that goes out the window and she's on her own.

AJ, I don't see this as her wanting to decrease his custodial rights, I see it as wanting to ensure her own.  She is coming to a country where she knows nothing about the laws surrounding this.  I don't think you have any concept of how terrifying this can be.

[Serebro]

HT, it seems to me you've been around the block a few times, with multiple trips and - if I remember correctly - breaking off a "serious" relationship w/a woman who was simply using you.

Why are you fumbling around like a rookie? The members here can only comment on your situation based on what you tell us, and everything that I see w/your relationship with this hot young thang screams "danger, Will Robinson!" If you're at least a year away from doing a K1, then why are you discussing her options should your marriage flame out at some point? In another thread, didn't you post a question about wedding dresses? So you're not planning to propose to her for a year, yet you're discussing wedding dresses w/her and making sure she knows all her rights when she arrives in the US?  It's impossible to tell if you're the player or the one being played, and probably it doesn't matter.

When you write stuff like this:

Your frustration w/her is because you think her assertion is an old wives' tale, not to mention the confounding logistics in planning such a visit to the UK to make her happy. The frustration of the people advising you is that you should rather be thinking, "why is she so concerned about asserting her rights when we've spent one trip together and are supposedly still in the initial stages of dating?"

I'm simply amazed, time and again, to see how much crap guys are willing to put up with for a pretty face...

groov, about wedding dresses and more plans-as I know HiTech is an extremely friendly and a very talkative guy... if you start chatting with him he will not let you go for the next couple of hours...
so my guess is that they probably have already discussed everything and now they discuss dresses and the place where the child is supposed to be born:)
when people chat they can speak about different thing no matter how long they know each other..
I remember when I spoke for the first time with my new "pen-friend"i am going to see soon we discussed different versions of the movie Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy for more than one hour time... and that's not what i had expected we would talk about...

HiTech is a big mature guy, why do you teach him how to live and what to discuss with his gf?! Do you want to be responsible for his life?!

[ScottinCrimea]

Serebro makes a good point.  As any of you who have spent any amount of time talking with your gf would know, all kinds of topics come up.  Maybe I forgot to read the part of the manual that says at which point in the relationship you are allowed to talk about specific topics.  If wedding dresses comes up at one month, six months, two years, what's the difference?  And why should we discourage someone from asking about this merely because it doesn't fit our pre-scheduled timeline for appropriateness?

Come on guys, quit the back seat driving and just answer the questions!

[Jazzyclassy]

Serebro makes a good point.  As any of you who have spent any amount of time talking with your gf would know, all kinds of topics come up.  Maybe I forgot to read the part of the manual that says at which point in the relationship you are allowed to talk about specific topics.  If wedding dresses comes up at one month, six months, two years, what's the difference?  And why should we discourage someone from asking about this merely because it doesn't fit our pre-scheduled timeline for appropriateness?

Come on guys, quit the back seat driving and just answer the questions!

I agree as well

[groovlstk]

groov, about wedding dresses and more plans-as I know HiTech is an extremely friendly and a very talkative guy... if you start chatting with him he will not let you go for the next couple of hours...

so my guess is that they probably have already discussed everything and now they discuss dresses and the place where the child is supposed to be born:)
when people chat they can speak about different thing no matter how long they know each other..
I remember when I spoke for the first time with my new "pen-friend"i am going to see soon we discussed different versions of the movie Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy for more than one hour time... and that's not what i had expected we would talk about...

HiTech is a big mature guy, why do you teach him how to live and what to discuss with his gf?! Do you want to be responsible for his life?!

Serebro, my comments to HT were not meant to knock him or bring him down, whether or not you believe it I would love to see him succeed. I don't want to "teach him how to live," I simply don't want to see another failed AM-RW marriage which had as its basis a lot of things except for love. If I don't understand his situation enough because he chooses not to reveal many details - which is certainly his business - he's a big enough boy to simply discount what I have to say w/out taking it personally.

FWIW I'm sorry, but when someone says they're a year away from making a commitment to someone I find it a little strange that they're discussing wedding dresses and child custody. You don't have to school me on chat, I chatted with over 100 FSU women and met quite a few of them before I found my wife. In a year of daily phone calls and chat we never discussed our wedding until I proposed to her and, knock on wood, we're married nearly a year and yet have never discussed child custody in the event of a divorce. Then again, perhaps I'm wrong for not fully educating my wife about her "rights," and maybe she's delinquent for not taking every opportunity to protect her backside in the event something goes wrong. But I doubt it, since my wife was not desperate when I met her and we waited until we were certain of our love and commitment for one another before bothering to get engaged. 

[groovlstk]

Come on guys, quit the back seat driving and just answer the questions!

Visajourney.com exists for those who want advice on immigration law. I'm sure HT can get a concise, nonjudgmental answer from one of the resident 70-year-old men doing K1s for girls 1/3 their age or a West African male headed to the US on some lonely divorcee's dime. They'll certainly ignore the screamin' scarlet flags evident in his first post.

[Jumper]

AJ, I don't see this as her wanting to decrease his custodial rights, I see it as wanting to ensure her own.  She is coming to a country where she knows nothing about the laws surrounding this.  I don't think you have any concept of how terrifying this

Scott-
Seriuosly i understand your point,
and I think i'd understand just as well such a situation as you do?
i've also relocated / moved long term to another country..(more than once)
with little to no language ,and almost zero knowledge of thier legal sytem.
as well as watched ,helped ,guided my wife thru that same
scary scenerio coming here! i have diffinantly been thru it and i understand the many concerns? I tried to be  very VERY  understanding of her concerns,
and made every effort to get her any and all information she might need, or want.

and yes like yourself,  went into the marriage  100% committed and with no prenup..
although in my case one wouldnt be wanted ,nor needed or relevent.
I understood completely the two way street and what she was  giving up...
and she trusted me enough to know i would always do the right thing by her.
Even with that trust, she had variuos concerns of course! and also heard all kinds of whacky rumours that needed clarified or talked about.

I suppose if i had posted some of those incomplete discussions ,i would have gotten similar responces..from the group here.


So  i do get your point!!

Now that said:
Specifically  if she had traded flowers for $, asked about having our future children in another country to strenghten her custodial position,
and i posted such,
 i would expect the concern in the replies i see here.

wouldnt you have?


Any RW facing this big relocation scenerio will feell some quite normal uneasiness and have plenty of questions, some might seem prudent enough,,others  bit out there,,as it is a big cultural gap..
in fact if she DOESNT have some nervousness, concerns or questions,
 now that woyld be a red flag..

buit some questions and actions are ,well, just a bit odd..

Heck  even hitech adds the beating his head against the wall smiley after her question about it.

is it possible shes just asking an innocent ,but odd,  question, that makes perfect sense considering the scary prospects facing her?

sure!

is it way overboard for people to reply with the limited data they have..
,that its something thats appears  a bit odd..as well as some other actons,
and worth keeping in a guys thoughts..?

seems normal enough ?

i'm certainly not wishing any ill will towards hitech..
and completely agree that HiTech  is a big boy, and he knows  more of the complete conversations  and story with his fiancee.

[ScottinCrimea]

AJ,  I agree fully.  Still, it's one thing to point out the things that don't seem to make sense and advise a guy to look up and notice the possible red flags.  It's another to joyfully condemn a relationship to trainwreck status based on limited info and gleefully look forward to the day they can say 'I told you so!"

OTOH, it's apparent that some of HiTech's word choices in describing the situation did set him up for some backlash.

[HiTech]

Scott & AJ: I agree with both your post. I see the same as you, and believe me when I say my eyes are wide open.

I in no way see this as a done deal. We have some very big hurdles to overcome.

But to judge a person from such limited knowledge is just stupid. You can judge the action as Aj and some others have done, but one must also understand the circumstance to begin to understand the person.

Crap we have Jb judging my financial status when he has zero information on it. And this type of dart throwing I believe is detrimental to helping people , relationships, and knowledge.

[Shadow]

Scott & AJ: I agree with both your post. I see the same as you, and believe me when I say my eyes are wide open.

I in no way see this as a done deal. We have some very big hurdles to overcome.

Would it not be wiser to take less hurdles and a faster way to the 'finish'?
In my case as well there were things that taken out of context could be seen as major red flags, although they were not.

But with what I see from your posts either you are not ready to goto a next step, which means not being ready for anyone, or you are still very unsure, in which case you are in some ways very far ahead of where your should be.
I have two experiences that I recommend to all. First is that a long delay almost certain breaks a relationship, especially if it is combined with providing a comfortable life for the woman at home.
The second is that if an FSU woman loves you, you will not have a spark of doubt in your mind that she does.

[jb]

Cut the crap, HiTech,,, you are the one who posted this ludicrous thread, not me.  Don't be too shocked when you get some serious answers to your not so serious questions.  You named yourself "HiTech", why don't you live up to your moniker?  You could have easily Googled the UK regulations regarding child birth by non-citizens,,, but no, you chose to clutter the board with another useless thread.   Mostly, IMHO, you fit another mold, those who look for,,, aw, what's the use.  This entire thread is a waste of virtual ink.  Red flags abound here. 

I suggest you read Shadow's post above carefully with special attention to the bottom line and remember that's a knife that cuts both ways.