Off to Kiev I go!

[KenC]

The whole tour thing never made much sense to me other than for a 'vacation'.  Do we have anyone of record on RWD who has successfully met his wife this way? If so, I can't remember it.
Dave

Dave,
I have asked that same question over the years on RWG and Planet Love.  In the last 8+ years, I have heard of only one guy that met his wife at a social.  IIRC, that marriage was short lived too.
KenC

[Jet]

Dave,
I have asked that same question over the years on RWG and Planet Love.  In the last 8+ years, I have heard of only one guy that met his wife at a social.  IIRC, that marriage was short lived too.
KenC

IIRC the only guy I've ever seen on this and other boards over the years (2002-present) went by the username zebrazeb and we haven't seen or heard from him in a long, long time...

[Turboguy]

I have stayed in touch with some of the guys on Jack's tour with me as well as some of the guys who went on the EC tours several years ago.   As far as Jack's tour two of the ones I was with made follow up trips (my son was one of those) but nothing worked out.  

Everyone came home from the EC tour thinking they had found their woman (including me) and not a single one married them and follow up trips were always disasters.  I did have the feeling I had met some good gals on Jack's tour but of course never made a follow up trip to learn more about them.  

Actually of the guys on any tour I was on, only myself and one other married an FSU woman.  The other married one has about a year and a half of being married to a Moldavian woman I hooked him up with and they seem to be doing well.   One friend has been to about 6 more tours mostly with AFA and meets nothing but scammers.   I have quoted this before but that friend met the one he really liked on his first tour and said a while back even if they never get married they will always be friends, then added at least he hopes their friendship will continue when he stops sending her money.

[KenC]

  One friend has been to about 6 more tours mostly with AFA and meets nothing but scammers.   I have quoted this before but that friend met the one he really liked on his first tour and said a while back even if they never get married they will always be friends, then added at least he hopes their friendship will continue when he stops sending her money.

Turbo,
There are a lot of words that describe this kind of woman: prostitute, whore, call girl, working girl, .......none of them being "friend."

I am sorry, but when money is being exchanged, everything changes.  I take this same approach with the other "professionals" in my life too.  When I start feeling too comfortable with CPA's, lawyers and such, I stop and think if we would be "friends" without the money exchange.  The answer is usually "no" and therefore they are not friends, but hired help.  No different than the guy that cuts my lawn or the woman that cleans our home.

KenC

[Turboguy]

Those are about the same words I would use Ken.  If someone is only interested in being your "friend" while money or gifts are flowing their way I can't see why anyone would have much need of a friend like that.  I am not sure that particular tour friend will ever wake up.

[William3rd]

Nice exchange here.

Here's how the BIG agency three (now down to two many times, due to lack of participation) socials work. The first social is a mix of requested (girls wanted by the men, usually the most gorgeous) girls and new fish. The second social is a mix of requested girls, gorgeous girls that the guys missed and "regulars." The third social is all "regulars." Good attendance means continued invitations. Some girls come to all three; its more of a business. Then its off to work at the River Palace :hairraising: to pick up a guy or two :noidea: if they strike out. . .

[Son of Clyde]

So this sort of puts a negative light on the "socials."
But maybe it can be a positive thing in other respects.
If the guy is not too serious about meeting Miss Right the first time out, maybe it is a way to get him accustomed to interacting with Russian ladies, the culture and the country itself. If he can muster the courage to interact with those 'drop dead' gorgeous women, it might make it easier to relate to the normal women he will really want to meet the next time out. I don't have the answer, but I don't think it has to be a negative thing.

[Simoni]

From Boltar's description, I think he and his fellow teammates are in the clutches of some pros.  There probably isn't a potential wife in the bunch. 

How do you communicate the reality of what's happening in the midst of a tour?  Not likely to happen. 

You are correct, JB.  And by the way, newbies should consult the poll at RWD on how men met their fsu wives.   Last time I checked, only one man met his wife on a tour.  Percentage wise, it's not the way to go.

[KenC]

So this sort of puts a negative light on the "socials."
But maybe it can be a positive thing in other respects.
If the guy is not too serious about meeting Miss Right the first time out, maybe it is a way to get him accustomed to interacting with Russian ladies, the culture and the country itself. If he can muster the courage to interact with those 'drop dead' gorgeous women, it might make it easier to relate to the normal women he will really want to meet the next time out. I don't have the answer, but I don't think it has to be a negative thing.

Well Clyde,
I think that is rather foolish logic on your part.  A guy could save himself a lot of money and trouble and just go to "Craigslist" under "services" and hire himself a local hooker to accomplish what you think is so "positive" about socials.  And he wouldn't even need a visa!!!!!

Don't you get it?  It is like 19 year old video chat girls, they'll be your "friend" as long as you keep feeding the video charges!
KenC

[Son of Clyde]

Funny Ken you read very much in my posts but never what I intended. Maybe your aim is to be contrary to those you "have no respect for." Where did I intimate hookers? These are socials you go to dinner you chat with the women and you go home. You are saying no marriages happen so just go for the dinner and the socializing. I will never EVER understand you. In one post you will say you are starting to respect someone and in the next you will rip his post apart to insert your own meaning. My post was insinuating if a guy does not marry someone from the social he can at least try to have a decent time and chat with the women. Sounds like you think all these women are hookers. I don't think Jack has the same thought.

[KenC]

Funny Ken you read very much in my posts but never what I intended. Maybe your aim is to be contrary to those you "have no respect for." Where did I intimate hookers? These are socials you go to dinner you chat with the women and you go home. You are saying no marriages happen so just go for the dinner and the socializing. I will never EVER understand you. In one post you will say you are starting to respect someone and in the next you will rip his post apart to insert your own meaning. My post was insinuating if a guy does not marry someone from the social he can at least try to have a decent time and chat with the women. Sounds like you think all these women are hookers. I don't think Jack has the same thought.

Clyde,
Read William's post above for a clue.

Bottom line is that socials do not work!  There are a lot better ways to develop one's social skills than to travel to the other side of the world.  "Just Lunch" here in the states would be a much more reasonable option than what you say.

Clydester, I call em as I see em.  When a post has value I say so.  I also know crap when I see it too.  Sorry, but your suggestion is silly.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Well I have been to the big agency socials and to the River Palace on the same night and none of the women from the socials were at the River Palace.   

I think one of the problems with the socials are that too many guys are looking for 9's and 10's and there are a lot of sincere gals but they are the 4's, 5's, 6's and maybe a few 7's.   The gals there who are hot are less sincere, well maybe more sincere but not about finding a good husband.   

A few of the guys on Jack's tour with me were very disappointed because they wanted a 9 or 10 and were meeting 7's and 8's.   We they were good catches for the women but I think the pool of 9's and 10's is fished out.   Those same guys could easily have found a very sincere, very desirable 7 or 8 had they chosen to.     

[Son of Clyde]

My logic is if a guy has already signed up for the social he needs to make the best of it. Who is to say there will never be a marriage from a social? Anything is possible if the chemistry is there.

BTW I am lucky if I would be considered to be a 7 so looking for a 9 or 10 would be the last thing for me to try at a social.

[I/O]

follow up trips (my son was one of those)

:hairraising:


I/O

[alantodd]

I think the problem now with socials in Kiev is the girls have a lot higher expectations of men in Kiev.  Would a good girl really want to go to a social where women significantly out number men and most of these men can't speak their language (Like a cattle call - not sure I would marry a woman who did this).  8's, 9's and 10's in Kiev don't chase men or go to socials unless a hooker.  Times are changing and Kiev is a good place to live for a woman. 

I have been to Kiev 18 times since July 2006 (I met my fiance on first visit while doing business and I have been back 17 times for personal not business).  I have noticed a couple of things.  More cars each time I visit.  Men and women getting fatter - I think because people no longer walk.  More hookers.  I know a lot of very good Russian men living in Kiev as well who are single, make very good money, and do not treat women badly. 

If your a man who makes less than 10,000 usd after tax a month, wants a woman better than an 8, and wants a 12 plus age difference.  It is not going to happen in Kiev anymore. Go to Mariupol, Kharkov, or East of Moscow.  But go quick as times are changing. 

[Turboguy]

My logic is if a guy has already signed up for the social he needs to make the best of it. Who is to say there will never be a marriage from a social? Anything is possible if the chemistry is there.

BTW I am lucky if I would be considered to be a 7 so looking for a 9 or 10 would be the last thing for me to try at a social.

I think the odds of getting married at a social were better a decade ago.  I think William could tell us that back in the old days K-1's after a social were pretty routine.  I am sure it can and does happen still.  There were sincere gals at the socials I went to, lots of them as far as I could tell. 

I agree with alantodd, the big agency socials had a bit of a cattle car atmosphere and I never talked to any sincere gals that seemed to like them.   Jack's did have a little better arrangement and did seem more comfortable and less demeaning for the women.

[Shadow]

If your a man who makes less than 10,000 usd after tax a month, wants a woman better than an 8, and wants a 12 plus age difference.  It is not going to happen in Kiev anymore. Go to Mariupol, Kharkov, or East of Moscow.  But go quick as times are changing. 

Or even better...drop the whole idea rent instead of buy.

[William3rd]

I think the odds of getting married at a social were better a decade ago.  I think William could tell us that back in the old days K-1's after a social were pretty routine.  I am sure it can and does happen still.  There were sincere gals at the socials I went to, lots of them as far as I could tell. 

I agree with alantodd, the big agency socials had a bit of a cattle car atmosphere and I never talked to any sincere gals that seemed to like them.   Jack's did have a little better arrangement and did seem more comfortable and less demeaning for the women.

Turboguy is correct. In the 90s and up to about 2002, 80% engagements were more the norm. The numbers then dropped off precipitously after that in large part due to marketing to sex tourists being invited along to try out the agency "stable."

By 2004, the quality of the women were way down, leaving a mix of gold diggers, professional party girls, and outright prostitutes in attendance at the socials. And the 21st century men? For the most part- social misfits, outcasts, sex tourists, geriatrics with a smattering of serious suitors.

A far cry from the 90s up to about 2003 where the men were all dead on serious.

But the marriages from those meetings? Successes are few and far between. Most of them are divorced, as I have posted elsewhere.

The chances today of success from the big agency, all our women are serious and pure, come and test drive our stable, cocktail parties? Probably not measurable using current scientific methods.

You are better served hanging with Jack- he works hard at it.

[Son of Clyde]

KenC, I am going to start calling you Kenneth or Kenster. Which do you prefer?

[William3rd]

You can call him Manny, or the Manster, if you like. . . .

[Simoni]

You can call him Manny, or the Manster, if you like. . . .

All pro defensive tackle for the Cowboys had that title...  half man, half monster.  Manster.

Best to leave it to him.  He was a big, tough, mean guy, and he might read RWD and get jealous.  Not a good thing    LOL

[Son of Clyde]

Ahh, ya doesn't has to call me Johnson! You can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, or you can call me Johnny or you can call me Sonny, or you can call me RayJay, or you can call me RJ... but ya doesn't hafta call me Johnson

[William3rd]

I havent forgotten Randy White or too tall or hollywood or the mighty helmsman,. But - you are in Tampa territory now arent you?

[Simoni]

Yep, and my bucs were creamed by the Giants yesterday.  Gloomy day around tampa bay today...

[KenC]

KenC, I am going to start calling you Kenneth or Kenster. Which do you prefer?

I was always partial to "Sir."