Ask me, I've done it! and have been married for 3 years happily!

[Bruno]

Bruno, thanks for providing government stats. This seems to be a legitimate source.
I do have a question though: where are all those men??? Why are there so many available women there? I don't think I'm the only one seeing that!
It's an honest question since I am trully puzzled by these statistics.

First, you have not so much available women... for all FSU, you have around 100000 women who are open to seek a foreign man... not so much when you see the global population of all ex-USSR !!!

The high ratio show by several agency are a myth... the reason for women seeking a foreign man is more basic... for the young lady, they seek the security... a young russian man need time to build his career... for older women, a lot are already divorced, with children... Russian men don't like take care of children from other... for the old women, a lot are widow, due to the short life expectancy from men...

At to this the violence in couple, the problem of alcohol and it explain why some women seek outside their country...

BUT remember that the big majority of FSU ladies date and marry local men... the same is true for us, western men... only a little part of western men seek foreign women !

[wxman]

Eduard,

You ask where the men are. Most men do not like to hang out at the shopping mall, no matter what country. 
Perhaps that gives a false ratio.

What percentage of younger men are in the military? What percentage of men have 2 jobs? What percentage of men are at home while their girlfriends are out window shopping? There are so many possibilities on where these men are. However, if you go to a nightclub, you will find a ratio closer to 1:1.

There are places you can go here in the states and find a large ratio on women to men. Namely a shopping mall. Once could assume there are many more women than men in the US based on that.

 

[wxman]

Bruno

Good stats and points! I wonder of the 100000 women that would be interested in a foreign man, what percentage date a foreign man out of curiousity or being a novelty, and in the long run would not marry one. Perhaps that number is even lower.

[Gator]

Eduard,

The ratio is not 8:1.

The ratio is at least 100:1 (the number of RW listed with agencies vs. number of RM listed with agencies).

That is something you can prove with fact rather than relying on your gut feeling.

[Admin]

In some villages and towns, the young men stay with their families to help with the work, while the daughters have the privilege of leaving to go to university. Also, to get a free education, the boys have to pass entrance exams and the ones who don't make the cut risk being drafted and spending a couple of years in the army. Also, in university towns it is usually easier for young women to get jobs once they graduate: they are willing to work in stores and in other types of jobs that are seen as women's work, while young men may not be able to find the type of jobs they want. So you end up with an imbalance: some regions have thousands of young men who can't find wives, because the young women went to university, liked the city and aren't willing to come back. The young men can't follow, because they won't be able to afford to buy an apartment and may not be able to find a good job.

Thanks for this. I think this does, indeed, help to explain some of the pockets of disparity we might see in some instances.

I guess the part that bothers me is - if the women made the choice to depart for university and then later found their options in marriage partners limited because of that choice - wouldn't it be natural for them to return to their former cities where, presumably, there is a relative abundance of potential partners?

I can see how this university migration would affect statistics on a micro-scale for a brief period of time, but it would seem to me that natural balancing would occur if the disparities were so severe for more than just a brief time.

Anyway - thanks for the insight into some of the demographic migration which occurs.

- Dan

[Admin]

Scott,
luckily there are members here that see the validity to both my opinion and my services. They send me private messages and some contacted me through my site.
I'm not stubborn and if someone showed me a reliable statistic that would contradict what is so obvious to most reasonable people (I'm referring to the fact that there are many more available, marriage minded women in Russian than men) I would definitely review my position. But what was shown to me didn't convince me at all. The source of it was not known and as someone pointed out earlier anyone with an agenda to push can come up with their own statistic and market their version of "truth" as if it was written in stone.
I'm not set on 1:8 ratio. I read that info a couple of years ago somewhere and according to my own experience it made a lot of sense. Billy's statistic of 1:1 doesn't sound right to anyone who spent considerable amount of time in Russia, furthermore there is no way to confirm how accurate that stat is and in addition it is 10 years old! Actually even older since knowing how things work in Russia it took them several years to calculate and get it published in 1999. For all I know that could be the result of a census done in 1990 before hundreds of thousands of young Russian men got killed!
So rather than insulting all the Russians calling us stubborn do some homework and come up with a reliable source that will give accurate numbers and preferably that was done in this century.

Eduard,

I am going to be gentle. I don't want any further whining about "crucifying."

You wrote:
>>I'm not stubborn and if someone showed me a reliable statistic that would contradict what is so obvious to most reasonable people (I'm referring to the fact that there are many more available, marriage minded women in Russian than men) I would definitely review my position. But what was shown to me didn't convince me at all. The source of it was not known...<<

In this post (yesterday) -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6401.msg122888#msg122888 - you will find the following text:

You are presented with FACTS from 3 separate sources. One is Wikipedia and maybe is somewhat dubious, though many rely heavily on it. One is the CIA Factbook, which most consider rather much of an authority. The other is the Russian Federal State Statistics Service (copied here from Vaughn's post)

Let me list them in bullet form so that you can see them even more clearly:

* Wikipedia
* CIA Factbook
* Russian Federal State Statistics Service

BillyB, in this post -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6401.msg122887#msg122887 - provided you a VERY detailed report which, if you have bothered to read it, cites its source data as: http://dmo.econ.msu.ru/demografia/Demographie/Population/effec-99.htm

These were provided PRIOR to Bruno's excellent post with even MORE statistical sources and references, including Ukraine's formal census data and the US Census Bureau report on Russia.

So now you have at least 4 separate sources which prove conclusively your claims on your site are bogus. Do you YET acknowledge that? The ratio of men to women in Russia and Ukraine is not 1 : 8 as you claim. It is not 1 : 2. It is not 1 : 1.5. It is not even 1 : 1.1. The ratio is, for all intents and purposes, 1 : 1  and that applies to both the nation as a whole, and is remarkably consistent in nearly all regions.

Eduard, in one of the posts you have now edited, you made some comments about conflicting business interests which you seem to believe influenced this topic. I think I know what you are referencing - and you should feel free to throw that into the mix. Before you do, please take the time to research your claims in advance of making another foray into territory which is foreign to you.

Finally, I want to share something with you. I am a member of some other discussion fora where I gather technical information, some of which helps me to run RWD. Recently, I posted about something that I was not quite certain of. Someone called me on it and asked me to clarify - they were pretty brusque with their challenge. My response was to acknowledge that I did not have current information and was not firm in my knowledge - and I apologized. Turns out, I was kind of correct - just a bit dated with the information. Nonetheless, the topic which could have turned ugly was a non-event with a few people learning a little about the history and the current state. If you are looking for a success path, I daresay continuing your current course is NOT likely to get you there.

- Dan

[Eduard]

I will admit that 1:8 is not the right number according to the info provided here if you just do the body count.
No one ever addressed my point that if for example you take a group of 25 year old men and women, and there is a 1:1 ratio, knowing Russian culture I can state that about 70% of the girls are ready for a commitment of marriage and family and only about 30% of 25 year old males are ready for that commitment. Now these are not the number from some source, this is my and my wive's number that comes from being from Russia and living it. I suggest that this disparaty affects girls and guys 24 y.o to 28y.o
At age 28 I would say that a 100% of girls want marriage and maybe 70 % of guys.
guys would probably catch up to girls at age 35.
Now I'm not great at math but wouldn't this make the ratio of marriage minded women to marriage minded men quite different from 1:1 maybe someone here is good at figuring such things and could come up with the ratio adjusted according to this?

I'd also like to address Bruno's observation that there are only about a hundred thousand single women who would be willing to marry a WM. I would have to say that the number is higher. As you know I use free Russian dating sites where there are approximatly 5 million single women advertising. In my experience 5 to 10% of them are willing to get to know a WM if they like his photos, profile and approach.
Obviously if a WM is younger and good looking the number is going to be closer to 10% and if he is older and not that attractive closer to 5%. I believe that most of the agency women can be found on free russian sites so I wouldn't say that those women are in addition to Bruno's 100,000, but inclusive. So I would estimate the number to be between 250,000 and 500,000
any thoughts?

[BillyB]

No one ever addressed my point that if for example you take a group of 25 year old men and women, and there is a 1:1 ratio, knowing Russian culture I can state that about 70% of the girls are ready for a commitment of marriage and family and only about 30% of 25 year old males are ready for that commitment.

You're probably right there are more marriage minded 25 yo women than 25 yo men. Naturally, they those women are more mature and 25 yo men aren't always ready to finacially support a family anyway.

I'd also like to address Bruno's observation that there are only about a hundred thousand single women who would be willing to marry a WM. I would have to say that the number is higher. As you know I use free Russian dating sites where there are approximatly 5 million single women advertising. In my experience 5 to 10% of them are willing to get to know a WM if they like his photos, profile and approach.
Obviously if a WM is younger and good looking the number is going to be closer to 10% and if he is older and not that attractive closer to 5%. I believe that most of these women can be found on agency sites so I wouldn't say that those women are in addition to Bruno's 100,000, but inclusive. So I would estimate the number to be between 250,000 and 500,000
any thoughts?

Bruno is probably correct that 100,000 RW are "open" to marry a foreign man. I assume "open" as in openly/currently advertising herself on international sites or agencies. I'll guess there are actually a few million RW that would be consider marrying a foreign man if she wasn't married already, she fell in love with the right guy, knew how to use a computer to interact with foreign men, had a local agency in her city, currently hiding the fact from family and friends, etc.... Some men have made contact with ladies on strickly FSU dating sites and have surprising results of interest from RW who were initially targeting local boys.

[Shadow]

Eduard, would you give the details on the number of 5 million profiles on those sites ?
Something like a breakdown on how many of those were active during the last 3 months....

Thing is a world-wide site like FriendFinder has less than 2 million active members (inlcuding scammers), so it would be interesting to see a local site topping that. Also this would build your statistics more.

You are making a nice and obvious mistake in your explanations. You compare the men and women of equal age. Now if we state that women are willing to accepts an age difference in trade for matureness and stability, that would make a comparison between women and the men a class higher. After all, I do not think you have a lot of 25 year old clients.
Even when you make the comparison there, you will not find even a 2:1 ratio.

Regarding availability, if you take out the drunks and players as available, also take out the golddiggers and bitches from the women.
Although they may be the ideal target group

Let me tell you from experience that it is hard to find a woman in the 25-35 age category that has no children or other problems.
As you state that a very large percentage will NOT accept a foreign man, that alone proves that the women have enough options.
If 4.900.000 women have a profile up and will not accept a foreigner, that should tell you something....

[Bruce]

The numbers are the numbers and until one gets very older they are roughly one to one.  Yes, men may get marriage minded a bit later, but a small percentage of Russian women will accept a quality Western man if their eyes are opened to the possibility.

Edourd, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe your approach is to work with a Westerner to target Russian women on all internet sites (both Russian and foreign centered) as well as to help the Westerner in Russia meet Russian women on their own in places they may not ordinarily go to because they just do not know the territory / where to optimize their meeting marriage minded Russian women in their own environment.  It really does not matter what the numbers are in this case because with work and realistic expectations a man should be successful with your help and approach.

[BC]

I really object to the misuse of statistics.  Men in my country have a statistical chance to live an average of XX years.  Does that mean I will? - obviously not. 

If you want to talk statistics, realize only that out of the large group of men that would like to meet, marry and maintain a long term relationship with a RW,  chances are very, very slim that it will actually happen to you.

And that's about all I can say about that.

[Gator]

Eduard,

Suffice it to say that RW find it difficult to meet interesting, marriage-minded RM who could provide financial stability for a family.  There are exceptions, such as the young 20s model-type RW.  

Fabricating invalid statistics reduces your credibility.

[groovlstk]

Fabricating invalid statistics reduces your credibility.

Why is it that everyone with a financial stake in this business can't resist making the most outlandish and ridiculous claims?

[catzenmouse]

Why is it that everyone with a financial stake in this business can't resist making the most outlandish and ridiculous claims?

Isn't that what Used Car Salesman have always done? 

This car (a 1978 Fairmont) was only driven to church on Sunday's by a little old lady who never went over 20 MPH and always kept it in the garage (car has actually been rolled, was in a flood, the fender is rusting off, and has over 200,000 miles on it). Big Toothy Grin!

[Misha]

Some men have made contact with ladies on strickly FSU dating sites and have surprising results of interest from RW who were initially targeting local boys.

Well, that is the case with me and my wife. I met her through a free Russian dating site. My wife was not looking for a foreigner, rather a good husband. When we agreed to meet for a date, she hadn't even noticed that I wasn't Russian. She simply looked at my picture, thought that I was decent looking and agreed to meet for a coffee. It was only after she said yes that she noticed that I was not from Russia.

[Misha]

Eduard, would you give the details on the number of 5 million profiles on those sites ?
Something like a breakdown on how many of those were active during the last 3 months....

I can't really see how many have been active in the last 3 months, but at the moment there are 18,302 women online on the site singles.ru this very moment. This is a slow time: in central Russia it is supper time and a lot of women access the site when they are at work. Over the day, you could easily expect that well over 100,000 women will be online (and this is being conservative).

[Admin]

Well, that is the case with me and my wife. I met her through a free Russian dating site. My wife was not looking for a foreigner, rather a good husband. When we agreed to meet for a date, she hadn't even noticed that I wasn't Russian. She simply looked at my picture, thought that I was decent looking and agreed to meet for a coffee. It was only after she said yes that she noticed that I was not from Russia.

It is probably a bit eye-opening for many newbies who venture to RWD to find stories such as yours are commonplace.

I met my wife because I was spending a TON of time in Ukraine and one of my colleague's mothers introduced me to Olya through Olya's mom.

BC met his wife while he was living overseas.

jb met his future wife while he was living and working in Russia.

I know there are other such stories I am not recalling at the moment - but the common thread is that no agency was involved, and the meetings were very 'normal' in that they occurred naturally and quite similarly to how introductions occur in one's home country.

Just food for thought.

- Dan

[mspanky]

 Even IF there was a 1:8 ratio  of more men and women so what? So the women would be so desperate to settle for a mediocre AM coming their way because chances of finding a decent one is slim. 

  That may work if you're living in Russia or the Ukraine, but if you're going to bring her back to the U.S.A. The land of many good younger men with looks ,college degrees and PHD's you're just taking her to the "candy store" where she can choose what she really wants instead of "settling". I t's human nature to crave what we really want when we settle for what was just avaibale and now opportunity is right in front of our face.

 As for the men who are irresponsible and drunks. Well there are women who are prostitutes, crazy, as women tend more then men to have psychological issues, have kids, drink,do drugs, evil, have little morals and cheat,fat, ugly as sin,mentally handicap. There are devious ones just like men. You can't put the women in the "perfect" pile and then try to use your anaology that only a small percentage of men are marriage material.

   

[catzenmouse]

As for the men who are irresponsible and drunks. Well there are women who are prostitutes, crazy, as women tend more then men to have psychological issues, have kids, drink,do drugs, evil, have little morals and cheat,fat, ugly as sin,mentally handicap. There are devious ones just like men. You can't put the women in the "perfect" pile and then try to use your anaology that only a small percentage of men are marriage material.

Think you're off on a bit of a rant here. Women don't have the exclusive rights to be screwed up. I've seen a pretty equal amount on both sides of the fence.

[Bruno]

No one ever addressed my point that if for example you take a group of 25 year old men and women, and there is a 1:1 ratio, knowing Russian culture I can state that about 70% of the girls are ready for a commitment of marriage and family and only about 30% of 25 year old males are ready for that commitment. Now these are not the number from some source, this is my and my wive's number that comes from being from Russia and living it. I suggest that this disparaty affects girls and guys 24 y.o to 28y.o

Eduard... please, use the previous link to the russian census... i have not the time and the knowledge of Russian language for seek more info...

But i think that the situation in Ukraine is not very different that in Russia... and if you look at a previous link ( http://www.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/marry/ ), you will see that your "...25 year old...women...70% of the girls are ready for a commitment of marriage and family" is something impossible for Ukraine since in the age range of 25-29 y.o. women, you have already 70.1% of the women already married or living together... it mean that only 29.1% of women are free... and not all of them are ready for a commitment of marriage and family.

Ok, it is Ukraine statistic... but the reality is not very different in Russia... me too, i know some of the russian culture...  and it is well know that people marry very early in FSU ( somewhere on these forum, long time ago, i have post statistic about age of the first marriage, divorce rate for first marriage, age second marriage, divorce rate for second marriage )... yep, it is true, Russian marry early and divorce very fast... seem that second marriage last more long...

And why is it so ? Simple... for a lot of young RW, marriage is the only way to have own life and living place... without it, a lot of RW stay by parent...

Since your use your personal situation for justify your number ( be married to a RW and living it ), i inform you that i was married during 5 year to a RW... before i have date RW during 2 year... before i have visit/work USSR ( yep, before USSR become FSU )... divorced a few year ago and date/visit several FSU ladies...

More, in 1997 and 2005, i was agency owner like you now... and i certify that i know almost all the myth that a lot of agency use for attract customer...

Now I'm not great at math

Yes, now, i agree 

but wouldn't this make the ratio of marriage minded women to marriage minded men quite different from 1:1 maybe someone here is good at figuring such things and could come up with the ratio adjusted according to this?

let see, the example from Ukraine... ( single mean never married )
15-19 yo : single male 98.6% single women 92.1%
19-24 yo : single male 73.1% single women 45.8%
25-29 yo : single male 32% single women 16.3%
... etc ...

seem that you have always more free RM that RW... some remarks : from the age range 25-29, the ratio of women divorced grow fast... over 40 yo, the ratio widowed grow fast...

I'd also like to address Bruno's observation that there are only about a hundred thousand single women who would be willing to marry a WM. I would have to say that the number is higher. As you know I use free Russian dating sites where there are approximatly 5 million single women advertising.

I have use several of these russian site... let say that more of 10% are from professional hooker, maybe 20% are from girl seeking friendship, add a few % for the lesbish, ... almost forget, you have some couple who seek to make a trio too...

By personal experience, same in case of site where FSU ladies seek a WM, it is not always easy to marry them... in one case, a FSU girl have stop the relationship because she have find a local man... in a other case, short before a planned marriage, one have cancel everything because she have not will quit her family and her work... lot of RW see WM like a option, in case they don't find something other... if they have the choice, they will always choice a Russian man ( almost... GCG, golddigger, scammer choice WM )...

Eduard, the problem is not the statistic... but more how you try to justify your "8:1" from the beginning... it will be more interesting to know how much marriage you have help to create... by example, in my case, in 1997, with around 800 ladies, and a little 10000 male customer, only two marriage.... in 2005, around 400 ladies and no marriage to my knowledge... it is not interesting to know how much people wish to participate in a marathon... more interesting are they who are on the start line... more interesting are they who finish the marathon... related to RW... a lot are open to WM but few start a relationship... and very few lead to a marriage...

[possum]

No one ever addressed my point that if for example you take a group of 25 year old men and women, and there is a 1:1 ratio, knowing Russian culture I can state that about 70% of the girls are ready for a commitment of marriage and family and only about 30% of 25 year old males are ready for that commitment. Now these are not the number from some source, this is my and my wive's number that comes from being from Russia and living it. I suggest that this disparaty affects girls and guys 24 y.o to 28y.o
At age 28 I would say that a 100% of girls want marriage and maybe 70 % of guys.
guys would probably catch up to girls at age 35.

As a 24 yo guy, these numbers sound about right to me.. I don't see myself getting married anytime soon, unless a really special girl comes along.. and that is a sentiment that I know is shared by many other Russian guys around my age.. I enjoy the freedom to do whatever I want and go wherever I want without having to ask anybody's permisson.. Sure, I don't have the same level of sexual and emotional stability SOME married people have, but then I don't have any of the problems associated with marriage either, financial or otherwise.. Having said that, I could probably support a family of three financially, but emotionally I'm not ready to be a husband and a dad..

[Photo Guy]

You're a Russian guy? Your English is PERFECT!!   

[possum]

You're a Russian guy? Your English is PERFECT!!   

Why thank you!. I try!.

[Misha]

I have use several of these russian site... let say that more of 10% are from professional hooker, maybe 20% are from girl seeking friendship, add a few % for the lesbish, ... almost forget, you have some couple who seek to make a trio too...

There are now over 20,000 women online on singles.ru. Even if your numbers are true, let us say that the women looking for sponsors, the women looking to exchanges sex for money, the women looking for female companionship account for 40% of all the women on the site (a bit high, but I will accept your numbers). This still leaves you over 12,000 women that you can write to for FREE! Are you saying that you could not find one woman that would interest you and one woman who would be interested in you in 12,000 potential candidates?

[BC]

Welcome possum!

I met and work online daily with a few great young lads your age in FSU.  Your outlook seems to mirror their thoughts and actions, - something along the lines of taking life one day at a time and making the best of it.  I think your generation has a lot to look forward to and an outlook that even us old 'geezers' can learn something from.

Cheers!