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Author Topic: Antiques in Russia  (Read 60758 times)

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Online Gator

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RE: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2007, 05:17:09 PM »
Daveman,
Quote
Gator, you mean you saw NOTHING there you collect? Not even one of those little wooden women, inside the other wooden woman,

For a brief period I felt as if I were collecting women, but not the wooden variety.  :D I am much happier now with just one.

My antique collecting interests are narrow, and my interest has waned somewhat.  In fact over the past 7 years I have sold much, much more than I acquired.  Been too busy chasing RW and golf balls.

Offline SANDRO43

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RE: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2007, 05:52:47 PM »
Sandro, I'll have to hit one of those Italian markets.. I adore your native Aurora pens, especially the 88's from the 50's
Handwriting, that brings back some long-buried memories ;).
When I attended elementary school (1st-5th grade) half a century ago :(, many schools still had equipment dating back from the 1930s-1940s: uncomfortably-hard wooden desks with either fixed or fold-down seats, and equipped with 2 inkwells which would be replenished daily by a caretaker, making the rounds of classrooms with a large ink flask.

Graded subjects included "Disegno e bella scrittura" (drawing and calligraphy), for which fountain pens were strictly not allowed: we had to use a stylus/holder and fit in it whatever type of nib our teacher required.

Sounds like prehistory, and I had to look up "pennino" (nib) in the dictionary, so disused the term is ;D.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 06:23:21 PM by SANDRO43 »
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline Lily

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RE: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2007, 10:29:55 PM »
When I attended the elementary school, we had a bit different schooldesks but we had to use exactly the fountain pens. That, on teachers' opinion, would foster our initial calligraphic style, as the fountain pen allow thicker and thinner lines.

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Offline Lily

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RE: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2007, 10:34:25 PM »
as a lifetime guitarist, I wanted to pick up a traditional Balalaika but was quickly informed that removing it from the country would be nearly impossible (which makes me wonder about the pens).

Dave

If you buy a balalaika that is of contemporary mass production in a souvenir shop, you should have no problems importing it from Russia, if you have a detailed receipt from the store. If the piece is rather unique or made earlier than 50 years ago, you are likely to have complications at the customs office.
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2007, 06:58:24 AM »
Lily, I see an abacus in your photo. Were you taught how to use it at school ? I dimly remember we did, but more as a curiosity. Another relic of the past, along with the slide rule :).
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Offline Jumper

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2007, 09:22:29 AM »
sorry for the :::offtopic:::
Hey, I have one of those Sondro..
in fact it looks pretty much like  that one !
 Even more strange, I know how to use it ,
well , at least for the most part! (i'm a little rusty) LOL



 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 09:25:42 AM by AJ »
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2007, 10:04:18 AM »
Not too off topic here, since we're discussing antiques ;D.
Even more strange, I know how to use it, well, at least for the most part! (i'm a little rusty) LOL
If you need a refresher: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule.

I could still do multiplications and divisions if necessary, though I'm rather foggy about square roots now (not an everyday's need, anyway). A slide rule sticking out of a breast pocket was a technician's proud statement of his exalted status ;).

Many years ago, I had developed a circular slide rule for the transposition of musical notes from one tonality/scale to another, and eagerly approached with the idea (and visions of untold amounts of It. ) an IBM customer of mine, a manufacturer of drawing tools. His reaction was exceedingly lukewarm, apparently the market for my brainchild was VERY limited :(.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 11:56:24 AM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline BC

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2007, 10:16:36 AM »
sorry for the :::offtopic:::
Hey, I have one of those Sondro..
in fact it looks pretty much like  that one !
 Even more strange, I know how to use it ,
well , at least for the most part! (i'm a little rusty) LOL


They should be pretty good for calculating trajectory, approximate landing speed and angle (head or @ss) etc.



Obviously not used for this 315 ft jump attempt... ouch! - Interesting that the bike landed quite ok...  friction between glove and grip not properly calculated..




Offline Wayne

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2007, 12:15:09 PM »
Ukraine has strict rules concerning taking things out of the country.  Icons and books more than 50 years old, I believe, cannot be taken out.  I have here perhaps 100 or more art pieces and crafts from about 15 Ukrainian Artists.  I had to go through the difficult process of photographing, cataloging, etc.  The duty was established for each piece, which I paid.  Usually, a stamp is placed on the back of the drawing or painting.  I have a part-time business that I am trying to get established selling art.

While in Ukraine, the woman I went to meet showed me something.  This was when I was staying in her home.  She showed me the most fancy document that I have ever seen, which she said was given to her by her Great Grandmother.  As she unflolded it, I could see it was a fancy but very old parchment with many details.  She explained that this was the orginal deed to a large parcel of land in Yalta which contains several palaces, Including the Lividia Palace, which we were going to see the next day.  She said, it was the official deed when Nickolas II purchased the property.  Of course, I could not read the Russsian, but she carefully explained each part of the document, which was very graphic sort of like an Indian pictograph, if you know what I mean.  She also showed me some very old gold coins and gold jewelry that was passed down to her.  I was an Art major in college and have equal to a PHD worth of grad school, and all the items looked to me to be just as she said.  Now, if she could safely get these items out of Ukraine, I wonder what they would be worth?

When I rented an apartment in a city in Western Urkaine, there were oil paintings on the wall that I recconized from my Art History classes.  These were orginals!  The agency who rented me the apartment said they were left in Ukraine because of the very high taxes that would have to be paid to remove them.

Offline Lily

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2007, 12:27:26 PM »
What a wonderful story do you tell us here. It is really nice to read that she allowed you to her family history and treasures. Are you in relationship with this woman now?

On the paintings: how do you know they are originals? I can hardly imagine anything like that hanging on the wall of a rented apartment.

Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline Lily

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2007, 12:32:38 PM »
Lily, I see an abacus in your photo. Were you taught how to use it at school ? I dimly remember we did, but more as a curiosity. Another relic of the past, along with the slide rule :).

Yes we were taught how to calculate using an abacus on the 1st grade, as a 7 years old kids. The slide rule you showed was in the school program, too.
By the way, I noticed many times that the western people often find it funny to see an abacus in Russia. :)
Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline Wayne

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2007, 10:26:04 AM »
Lily,

I am involved with someone else now, and have not seen the woman I was telling about for 3-1/2 years.

Yes, I am sure the paintings were real and valuable.  The apartment was locked up quite well.  It was only rented, I believe, to Americans.

Offline Olga_Mouse

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Postal stamps collection - evaluation needed!
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2008, 10:35:35 AM »
As this track has been originally entitled "Antiques", can someone recommend a way to evaluate the price of the stamps collection?

Dates: from 1866 till 1924.

Countries: Pre-revolution Russia, Georgia and Azerbaijan after revolution \ before Soviet Union, Ukraine.

Includes some stamps printed by "temporary" governements of Civil war epoque (Denikin, Judenich, Kolchak, etc.)

High resolution scans can be e-mailed upon request.
"If I get through this job without completely losing my mind, it will be a miracle of Biblical proportions" [Commander Susan Ivanova, Earth Alliance space station Babylon 5]

Offline Lily

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Re: Postal stamps collection - evaluation needed!
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2008, 11:46:15 AM »
As this track has been originally entitled "Antiques", can someone recommend a way to evaluate the price of the stamps collection?

Dates: from 1866 till 1924.

Countries: Pre-revolution Russia, Georgia and Azerbaijan after revolution \ before Soviet Union, Ukraine.

Includes some stamps printed by "temporary" governements of Civil war epoque (Denikin, Judenich, Kolchak, etc.)

High resolution scans can be e-mailed upon request.

Olga,

I googled your question, here is what I got:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:NzBW3ZIUVL4J:old.appraiser.ru/discuss/messages/129/11295.html+%D0%B3%D0%B4%D0%B5+%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%BE+%D0%BE%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C+%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8E+%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA&hl=ru&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ru

may be a forum would help:
http://filatelist.ru/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1

Here is an interesting article on the value of stamps that may give some guidance:
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:fIkIXQumh18J:www.finansmag.ru/32184+%D0%B3%D0%B4%D0%B5+%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%BE+%D0%BE%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C+%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8E+%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA&hl=ru&ct=clnk&cd=23&gl=ru

Eventually, the auction "Gelos" may provide evaluation services.

Good luck!

« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 11:50:30 AM by Lily »
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Offline May First

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2008, 03:06:32 PM »
My cousin and her husband are Ukrainian antique dialers living and working abroad.
The problem with FSU antiques is that they are in most cases fake. There are factories that make antiques there.
So be careful.

Offline Kuna

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2008, 05:01:33 AM »
 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Sorry for the OFF TOPIC but post 22 by Lily is possibly one of the funniest things I've seen here in a while!

Have a look at the writing on this ladies t-shirt:


Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2008, 01:54:46 PM »
Hey, Kuna, I can imagine my wife wearing a shirt with similar writng at that age, can't you?   :devilish:

Offline Kuna

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2008, 02:00:24 AM »
Hey, Kuna, I can imagine my wife wearing a shirt with similar writng at that age, can't you?   :devilish:


hahahaha.... I dunno Scott - I don't know your wife that well!   ;D


Offline Wienerin

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Re: RE: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2008, 07:17:43 PM »
Tim,

It is just not the onerous regulations, there is nothing there.

Where? In Russia? Nothing? Then I must be stark staring mad - and have been like this from birth. I've been "into" antiques almost from birth - that is when I began to see what's around :) Mind, - in St.Petersburg, which has gone in a short span of 30 years through 3 wars and 2 revolutions, through the siege - and even nore destructive through people bying varnished "stylish" pieces and sets from Eastern Europe and Finland, and moving to new housing - government and co-op, thowing out in the garbage museum pieces sometimes. I'm not kidding, my Mom and I used to visit houses whence all the people were relocated (the buildings themselves were for gut-rehab) and on the ubbish heaps found some nice pieces and three real treasures... I'm tired now, but later I'll try to find similar pieces on the internet to show.

What is amazing - how much in people's homes survived all the tribulations. I've seen whole big apartments without a single piece of anything younger than late Empire (Alexander I and beginning of Nickolas I epochs - this is how Russian antiques are classified, by the reigns).

There are reasons for abundance of these treasures. First of all St.Petersburg was an enormously rich Imperial capital second to none. And in spite of your assertion about the lack of middle class this is certainly not true for the XIX - early XX cc. Government officials, merchants, bankers, army and navy staff, doctors, lawyers, artisans, etc. not to forget aristocracy who had palaces and mansions in addition to their - sometimes numerous - country places, or rented apartments in the capital for the season. Only imperial family, all these princes had dozens of palaces.

Most of the stuff, moreover, was home-made - until the emancipation in 1864 by the serves on the estates. There were also notable cabinetmaker factories like Gambbs' who made beautiful "victorian" walnut and mahogany furniture. There was an Imperial Porcelain Factory and Kusnetsov, and Popov, etc. Many of the richer people also imported French, Italian, Dutch, etc. stuff.

After the Revolution workers and other memebers of "proletariat' and new bureaucracy were given rooms in emigre's apartments - with all the furnishings. Stuff from the Winter Palace - the State Hermitage Museum now - was sold to the public and pretty cheaply too. Me step-grandmother bought a set of dinner plates with Tsar's monogram.

The domestic production of consumer goods didn't pick up to any extent until the 50s at least, - so people simply held on to what they had... good sturdy stuff, solid wood, beautifully made, why not? :)

Rugs... I do not know the market now, but eberyone in my recollection had 2-3 pieces of handmade TUrkoman and Persian rugs of beautiful colors and traditional design - from Middle Asia and Caucasus. They were not easy to buy (and what was?) and never cheap - middle size, say, 2x3 m cost 150-170 roubles, more than an engineer's monthly salary. In the 70s however there started an influx of Belgian and German machine-made stuff, which was very much in vogue, and domestic old-fashioned carpets became cheaper.

THe only thing - besides leaving my beautiful StPetersburg - which gives me a pang is what I had to leave there. And Mama cried when she had to sell and give away all the things with which we lived, and which in some cases were in the family for generations.
 
Quote
A  PAIR OF PORCELAIN VASES (30") from 1825-55 sold for over a $1,000,000 last year at Sotheby's.  A dinner plate of the same era (9") can bring $150,000 or more.

These must have been something extraordinary - with historical significance or whatever. Or some crazy millionaire lacked just such vases or plate in his collection. Ir's very hard for me to think that all my family, friends and acquaintances had/have things of such value in everyday use :)

But yes, with the arrival of "new Russians" with money to burn (and the quicker the better - lest something happens) the prices for antiques in Russia went up and continue to grow. Though from what I've seen on the web, they are still much behind the Western ones. Mostly because domestic market is somewhat restricted, and to take such stuff out of the country is all but impossible.

Offline Lily

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2008, 07:51:23 PM »
Wow Wienerin,

You are the person who can tell a lot about the topic.

With his slight exaggeration, Gator probably meant that antiques tend to became harder to find, as their quantity obviously does not grow with ages. As the time goes and the number of antiques stays the same, one should spend more and more time and efforts in order to locate something valuable.

In order to buy a piece of antique art, one should first find the owner who would be willing to part with it. The demand increases, people get more knowledgeable about the thing, so the prices escalate as well with the antiques becaming more rare.
Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline Gtex

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2008, 09:42:32 PM »
W:
Your passion on the subject is genuine and good to see.  The usual FSU native has a view more reflecting (often) the woman (former fiancee) in the "Starting Over" thread.  Antiques=used!
For me it has been a passion and a business, I've worked the antiques of St.P for a decade (20 trips).  From the back courtyards of Nevsky, to Austrian Circle on Vasilevsky, to WWII Bunkers (now antique markets) in parks there is a lot to see.
If ever you have the chance, Udelniya station off the end of Metro (RedLine?) has one of the great open air Flea Markets every Sunday in an open field.  This is next to electric train service line to Helsinki on the outskirts.  Usually several thousand people.
I have purchased while there everything from Russian release Beatles albums and Levis (an emergency), to vintage Soviet Lomonosov porcelain, children's books of the Avant-Garde and Ruble coins from the 1830's.
They will also have everything to fix your kitchen, bathroom or car and clothe your entire family.  And of course, sashlik...

Offline Ooooops

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2008, 09:58:50 PM »
How about permissions for export of real valuable antiques from Russia?   

Offline Gtex

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2008, 05:13:27 AM »
On antique export: less than 100 years old, no problem.  Still, documentation is a good idea as you may be subject to attempted "shakedown" at airport.  Icons, do not try it unless obviously new.  Art work requires some stamps from office of "experts" but generally same 100 year rule applies. 

Offline Ooooops

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Re: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2008, 05:25:15 AM »
On antique export: less than 100 years old, no problem. 

Nope.   

Online Gator

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Re: RE: Antiques in Russia
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2008, 05:55:57 AM »
I've been "into" antiques almost from birth - that is when I began to see what's around :) Mind, - in St.Petersburg, which has gone in a short span of 30 years through 3 wars and 2 revolutions, through the siege - and even nore destructive through people bying varnished "stylish" pieces and sets from Eastern Europe and Finland, and moving to new housing - government and co-op, thowing out in the garbage museum pieces sometimes. I'm not kidding, my Mom and I used to visit houses whence all the people were relocated (the buildings themselves were for gut-rehab) and on the ubbish heaps found some nice pieces and three real treasures...

THe only thing - besides leaving my beautiful StPetersburg - which gives me a pang is what I had to leave there. And Mama cried when she had to sell and give away all the things with which we lived, and which in some cases were in the family for generations.

Wienerin,

With such words you identify yourself as someone who truly understands and appreciates antiques...not just the decorative arts aspects, but their history, the story they have to tell, and their warmth from years of care - they indeed have a heart compared to new stuff. 

Nevertheless, I never encountered another RW with your sentiments.  Perhaps there are more like you in St. Piter because it is so different from Moscow.

 

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