Hello everybody! My name is Mark........

[Lily]

I ** will now be deleting all emails from Russians in Russia on Lavalife after Lily's interesting point.
 

Mark, I said that Lavalife bans Russian IP's, but I no way I am saying that every Russian who has found a way to get registered on them is a scam. If I would be personally admitted to it, would I decline membership? hell no! because I know that Lavalife would make a lot better market for me than Elena's Models would. Or, alternatively, I could hire an agent in the U.S. to make a profile for me and to be an intermediary in my correspondence as my own IP is banned. In this case I also could be on sites like this one.

[Mishenka]

Hey Marcamous,, I have joined a few of these sites, I get about 10 emails from RW each day and 150 profile views per week and found on average, you will get about 20% of the women are actually scammers, being men behind that computer posing as RW.  They post stolen photo's,  they are aggressive, contact you many times per day, and usually, write way to much personal info about themselves in the first few lettters, which REAL Russian women will never do until they know you well.  If I find one, or she finds me as it usually is,  I notify the owner of the site, he checks them out and deletes their profile right away,, so if I were you, wirte an Email and bring it to their attention at lavalife.  I have since suspended my profile after seeing this happen to often.

Since finding Galina, (her photo to the left)  Russian women love photos!  I have 57 photo's from her with her son and brother and friends,  I talk with her on SKYPE video and phone twice daily. I call her on her mobile,  at home, and at work,, She in fact works for Uzbek airways as senior accountant.  He brother is a pilot there, I have checked her out well and found her to be honest every step of the way.  I was lucky this time.  I found a wonderful woman who is ready for a serious relationship. She is so concerned never to ask me for anything, especially money.  Because of scammers like this person you found online, Galina has processsed my invitation herself for Uzbekistan Visa to travel to see her. She will bring the whole family to the airport to meet me. Including the family dog! 

best of luck!
Mishenka

[marcamous]

This is obviously a very complicated process and every situation is different. That is, the process that is involved in finding a RW for a partner. You need to be careful. I was suspicious of this scammer and it is the reason for me finding RWD. A couple of things that did bother me about this scammer was that in the emails sent to me the quality of English used changed from one letter to another. Also the speed at which the relationship progressed. Almost like love at first sight except we had never seen each other in person. I guess that scammers aren't all that patient. This one wasn't anyway. Although I am new to this I would never send such a large amount of money to someone I had only known for two weeks. I don't think I would even if I had known them for a year. It's crazy, I would rather spend that money on a nice holiday for myself maybe even to the FSU. Before three weeks ago I had not even entertained the idea of pursuing an RW for a partner. It has however awakened an interest in me and I will be finding out more. This sight is a very useful tool....

[I/O]

This is obviously a very complicated process and every situation is different.

Mark: Yes it can be complicated if you let it be so. Every situation is different, but I have come to understand that each situation is not "As" different as we imagine at first.

Point is, look to the longer time married guys here as your key information resource and you will find much of what they say will apply to you if and when your time comes.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Point is, look to the longer time married guys here as your key information resource
I/O

I am not discounting what you said here I/O but I can't agree with it either.  In his particular case most all the posts that responded to his were good answers.   The only longer time married guy who posted in this thread was AJ.   

Our most vocal "longer time married guys" are KenC and jb.  Both are as wise as any two guys you could hope to find but neither has much experience in about half the things discussed here such as WOVO, agencies etc.    Personally I don't see much bad advice being given by anyone on this thread or in any threads on RWD.  We have a great group of guys who are knowledgeable and helpful.  If there was a measure I would look for is that I might look at the number of posts and take advice more seriously if someone had more than a handful of posts. 

[SANDRO43]

This is obviously a very complicated process and every situation is different. That is, the process that is involved in finding a RW for a partner. You need to be careful ... It has however awakened an interest in me and I will be finding out more. This sight is a very useful tool....

Mark, it would probably benefit you if you had a look at the ScamCard (in the Scam Avoidance menu at left) for hints on what signs to be on the alert about .

[I/O]

I am not discounting what you said here I/O but I can't agree with it either.

Turbo: You may like trying to sell ice to Eskimo's but I see a much better chance of success in selling them heating oil. Point is, verbosity counts for nothing.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Turbo: You may like trying to sell ice to Eskimo's but I see a much better chance of success in selling them heating oil. Point is, verbosity counts for nothing.
I/O

Huhhh.  I would just as soon not sell the Eskimos heating oil or refrigerators.   Your previous post shows you are right on the verbosity part.  It was pretty dumb advice.   I am in no way discounting the advice of KenC or jb, I just think most of the guys who have hung around here for a while give good advice.  I see a lot of people who are or have been in the searching stage giving great advice.   If anyone gives bad advice they quickly get called on it. 

I think everyone needs to form their own opinion about whose advice they want to follow and whose they want to discount.   So, since you are not in that category that you say someone should listen to as yet you are saying that your advice is not as good as the others and I would even disagree with that.   I think your advice is most always excellent except for that occasion.

I am sure for advice about a happy marriage jb and KenC would be ones I would give extra credibility to.   I would listen to them more than I would 2tallBill for example, for other subjects I would be happy to listen to Simoni or Maxxum, Bill or lots of guys.   

[I/O]

It was pretty dumb advice.

Turbo: Sometimes I see a glimmer of hope in you and then you burst my bubble by reverting to idiot status again. Maybe it's the age thing. What you are saying is that in the overall picture of things, longevity of marriage (WHAT THIS BOARD IS ALL ABOUT IN CASE YOU MISSED IT) really doesn't count for much and then you try to support that by dividing subject experience here and there. No body here including me disputes that..!! Go back and get new bifocals then read what I wrote, no don't because you'd screw it up again................here it is so you don't get lost.....Point is, look to the longer time married guys here as your key information resource. Where the phuc in that did I say "Only"?

Dragging someone less than half your age from Barnaul to Hicksville doesn't make you "Cock of the walk" and even if you mistakenly think it does, just remember, one week a rooster, the next week a feather duster. That's the reality of how we all live in this pursuit.

Ding Ding...Turbo, here it is in one sentence. For a freshman as we have here, the smart money is to look for credible advice from those who have succeeded in the first instance or he will get lost in all the BS that floats around here.

BTW I am but a grasshopper compared to the AJ's KenC's JB's and a few others, so yes their advice is of more value than mine by and large. I ain't very smart, but I am just smart enough to recognise those smarter than me. Sadly, some aren't.

I/O

[Shadow]

I/O while you make some good points, I would not discount the advice of any guy looking that is sensible. The FSU is a fast changing place and as OMB you will not be up to date with the latest customs and scenes.
Just 4 years ago having a computer at home or a mobile was seen as a  major red flag.... so to have recent experience in travel and contact with seeking women does count for a lot.

[I/O]

as OMB you will not be up to date with the latest customs and scenes.

Shadow, I am not an OMB, perhaps a B, but that is about as far as it goes. I dispute your point on the basis that as a MB, I have access to more up to date, on the ground info from friends and family than I ever did before. KenC's wife has recently spent several weeks at or near home in Russia. JB's wife has recently been back home to sort business and investment matters out and it is only reasonable to suggest they too have access to their wives recent experience on the ground.

BTW, 5 years ago, several people I met in Russia had home computers and almost everyone I saw over the age of 3 was bradishing a mobile (cell) phone. I never saw either of those things as a red flag, but rather a sign of someone who wasn't completely destitute.

I would not discount the advice of any guy looking that is sensible.

Of course, but how does the freshman sort out what is sensible and what is not? Largely, compare the advices with the OMB's comments and you will start to get the picture. Hence my comment the KEY information source/reference point, whatever you like to call it should be the OMB's.

I've noticed a slight trend away from valuing the experience of the OMB's here of recent times as much as once was the case. I see it as a dangerous trend. I guess I am toast here, but I have always put experience in the ultimate aim (For most who come here, that is marriage) at the top of my credibility measuring list. :noidea:

I/O

[Turboguy]

What you are saying is that in the overall picture of things, longevity of marriage (WHAT THIS BOARD IS ALL ABOUT IN CASE YOU MISSED IT) really doesn't count for much

No, I/O I didn't say it didn't count for much.   Of course it is of some importance.   Let me try explaining what I am saying differently.   We talk about a lot of subjects here.   We talk about WOVO vs WMVM.  We talk about what agencies are scams and which are as honest as we might hope to find.   We talk about travel and lodging in the FSU.  We talk about visas and immigration.  We talk about helping our wives adapt to life in America and some of the experiences of married life. 

jb and KenC might be excellent sources of information about long term marriage success.   Would jb be a good person for advice about fiancee or spousal visas to Australia?  I have a feeling you and Kuna would be better sources.   How about agencies in Lviv,  Think KenC would have all the answers?  What I see in RWD I/O is a community of very good and knowledgeable people who will bend over backwards to help anyone and who 99% of the time try their best to give good advice. 

Now I need to talk about part 2

BTW I am but a grasshopper compared to the AJ's KenC's JB's and a few others, so yes their advice is of more value than mine by and large. I ain't very smart, but I am just smart enough to recognise those smarter than me. Sadly, some aren't.

I/O

One of the differences between me and some others is that I don't spend time thinking if one person is smarter than another, if one is a big shot and another is just an average Joe.  I respect everyone and value everyones opinion.   What I find is that everyone has areas where they have some expertise.   Even a newbie has experience at being a newbie and not knowing and we can learn from that how newbies think and how to help them.   Yes, I see guys whose opinions I respect more.   To be honest if there is one person who stands out in my mind for his opinions and ideas it happens to be an unmarried guy.   Everyone has value in my book.  Everyones advice is worth listening to.   Perhaps when I think about what they say I may not follow it but I am always happy to listen.

[I/O]

Turbo: You just simply don't get it do you? Another way to explain it is this. A Freshman walks in to a mountain of information here and can well be blinded trying to sift things out. How many times have we seen Freshmen ask questions which have been answered a dozen times in the FAQ section.

Where does the Freshman look to confirm facts? Who's talking BS and who's on the up and up? It is just basic good sense to look to those who have succeeded first. What are they saying? From there, sure there is other guys who have details of experience in given areas, but the overall key will be the guys with the score on the board over time. Now if the discussion was a "decade of sniffing FSU smoo accolade", then you "Da Man".

Of course it is of some importance.

It's not often, but I am lost for words. That statement is beyond the ridiculous.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Turbo: You just simply don't get it do you? Another way to explain it is this. A Freshman walks in to a mountain of information here and can well be blinded trying to sift things out. How many times have we seen Freshmen ask questions which have been answered a dozen times in the FAQ section.

I agree with that part.   Out of 117,000 posts there is not much that is going to be asked that has not been asked before.   Every day we get a few newbies post the same old story of being contacted by a hot babe on some American site.   They would not have to read 10 minutes to come across the same story a gazillion times.  It just goes with the territory.   If we are going to try to help people learn, understand and succeed (even if succeeding is giving up the idea of a RW) then we are going to have repetition. 

I/O,  Instead of arguing an invalid point that neither of us is going to convince the other we are right and they are wrong spend about 20 minutes sometime looking at the new posts for a given day then think about how many of those are topics where an OMB is going to have the edge on good information.   I think you will find there are very very few.   They are far removed from a lot of the topics we talk about.   They do have a lot of knowledge on some and of course there are many that good common sense is what is important and they have no edge but they do have good input but no more valuable than anyone else's.

Personally I think we have a lot of smart people here.   I enjoy hearing input from some of the RW such as Lilly, Jazzy, Anastassia and others.  I enjoy hearing the ideas from the married guys such as SOC, jb, both Kens, Voyager, Vaughn, AJ, Groov.  I enjoy hearing the ideas of Simoni, Rivcardo, Gator, DKMM, P/G, Viking and so many more I could not even start to name them all.   Everyone has good input.  Everyone is right most of the time.   I always believed that the more ideas you have the better the chance of good ones coming out.   I don't think the OMB's have a corner on wisdom or experience.  I don't see any reason anyone should rate their advice a bit higher than the others except in issues of marriage.

[I/O]

Turbo: You really are feeble. You just said, let's not continue arguing an invalid point and then dedicated two paragraphs trying to do exactly that.

Really Turbo if the point you are trying to make wasn't such a total crock of schit, I wouldn't bother trying, but guys like you are a serious danger to the uninitiated. Fortunately they are relatively few and far between, even in this mad caper.

Anyway, there you have it guys, according to the thesis of Turbo, the OMB's advice is of no more value than anyone else's. Step up to the plate P/G, we will all sit in awe and listen..................................not.!!!

I/O

[Turboguy]

That is not quite what I said I/O.   Actually the best I could explain my view is that in some cases the opinions of the OMB's are worth far less than average.   In other cases their ideas are just as valuable as everyone else's.  In a few cases they are the ones with the real expertise on the subject.   

Let me try to explain it in a simple way (again)   If you have an upset stomach for a long time and you also have a problem that the brakes on your car are grabbing.  Personally I would ask a doctor about the stomach and a mechanic about the brakes.  Your logic would have you ask the doctor about both because he has more education.   

Speaking of P/G his advice, after his learning experience, has been quite good.  Yours on the other hand seems a little off in left field.   Here you are basically saying something that could be interpreted as "if you want to know about a visa for Australia, give jb's suggestions the most weight.   In another thread you are promoting WOVO with no backup plan.  In another thread you are saying no one has writting a book on the subject which is not true.   William has as have a few others. 

[I/O]

Turbo: You are now lying to try to gain traction here, oops, I almost forgot, you and yours have quite a history of that don't you. Show me where I said "Nobody" has written a book on the subject.

Anyone here written a book on this subject recently? Helloooooooooooooooooooo?

My liking of VO was carefully qualified so please don't try to misuse what I wrote. That harks after your wife's style early on, which even she had the sense to forego. BTW, I have never ever, anywhere promoted WOVO. I have strongly supported VO but have stopped way short of suggesting WO.

Turbo, when you use your wife's style it only makes you out a bigger fool than you already are.

Bottom line is, discount the value of the OMB's as you will, but do so at your peril, in the bigger picture of this, their advisory value is without peer. It is not a matter of bowing to the "Big Shots" but rather a case of placing stock where it is the safest.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Thanks for the minor corrections to what I said.  I have never discounted the value of the experience that comes with a successful marriage.   My point all along has been that it gives them some expertise in a small area of what we discuss but in those areas their ideas are invaluable. 

I also agree that the goal for most of us is a long term, happy marriage to a good woman.  I just feel there are a lot of steps along the way that most guys go through and their expertise in those areas can sometimes be a little dated. 

Just as WOVO or WMVM or the variables is an individual choice.  Just as using an agency or running an ad or writing gals from a dating site is an individual choice, deciding whose advice we trust and don't is an individual choice.   I am sure some such as you will decide to give weight to a happy long term marriage.  I am sure some will look at other factors, perhaps verbosity.   Personally I prefer to evaluate the advice given as compared to what I believe.  If I see someone who constantly seems to give good advice I tend to trust what they say more.  I also look at the subject matter and the poster's level of experience with it.  Personally doing it the way I do, I see very few who give bad advice.   I think we have a pretty savvy cadre of people who have a deep concern for the welfare of others and a desire to share their knowledge and experience.  I also realize that what people post is their opinion.  Sometimes it is facts, but mostly opinion.  What I have said about this is my opinion.  Contrary to what you think, what you said is your opinion not fact.   

[Gator]

Forgive me for breaking into your spirited discussion, yet I wanted to introduce my thoughts before some golf.

A guideline from my business days:

Who has the best ideas?  The person with the most ideas.

Who has the worst ideas?  The person with the most ideas.


Everyone at RWD has a beneficial role.  Who knows, maybe a rookie will come up with something new and clever.

Regarding the OMBs, they have seen so much that is applicable to understanding how to judge a RW's actions and how to live happily with a RW.  Keep in mind that when they post something, it reflects direct and indirect input from their wife.  And their laboratory extends beyond just their wife to include observations of other RW living in the USA.

Recent members offer so much regarding travel and agencies and visa procedures.  Two years ago, I wrote of spending $100 for a 2-room apartment in Moscow.  An OMB took a shot at me, assuming I had a flat next to the Kremlin, and saying I could get a good one for $40 a few metro stops away.     Rookies also have more exposure to the changing whims of the current unmarried RW.  A young, unmarried RW is different in some key ways today from what OMBs observed 6 years ago.  However, the rookie needs the experienced member to help him understand what he observed as well as to read the tea leaves.

[BC]

Hey guys, this is Mark's intro thread.  He knocked on the door, was welcomed, his questions answered.  These latest rounds seem quite unsolicited.

[Turboguy]

Forgive me for breaking into your spirited discussion, yet I wanted to introduce my thoughts before some golf.

Now you are making me jealous.   Other than the jealousy I now have, well said.

Hey guys, this is Mark's intro thread.  He knocked on the door, was welcomed, his questions answered.  These latest rounds seem quite unsolicited.

It is part of life at RWD BC, but I agree and think it is time to get back on topic.

[Photo Guy]

Hi Mark,
Welcome to RWD. Read and read and read the forum
here at RWD. A lot of it is fascinating reading! Start with the
'10 Command.' link at the top of the page.

And then you might look at:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=446.0
a trip report by Groovlstk. All of his reports are highly entertaining and
insightful, written by a New Yorker with pro writing skills.

As for Old Married Bastards, I agree that their advice and opinions
should be taken seriously, especially when it comes to the subject
of living with a RW after marriage. For other subjects, you will soon
discover which people can supply you with good advice and you'll be
able to figure out the best course for yourself. I recommend you do
a lot of reading, because there are some topics here that will
elicit dozens of different opinions. Look at the stories of various
individuals to see different case studies. Then, draw your own conclusions.

Actually, I don't think of marriage as the ultimate end. Anyone can get married.
Also, many couples are married and unhappy. The trick is finding the ideal mate.
Only you know what can make you happy. Having said that, I know there
are many guys who go into this NOT knowing what makes them happy.
Those are usually the guys who choose a woman based solely on her appearance.
So if you don't know what you want, you probably won't find the ideal wife.

You could find your future wife by taking a methodical approach, or as a result
of good luck, serendipity. It a numbers game. The more women you meet in
your life, the greater your chances of finding that special woman. It could be the
1st woman you meet over there, or the 20th. (The odds are the same) Make a list of
those qualities that you absolutely need in a wife. Stick to the list. Don't allow
a woman's beauty to distract you from an important quality on your list, like 'honesty'.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

[I/O]

Regarding the OMBs, they have seen so much that is applicable to understanding how to judge a RW's actions and how to live happily with a RW.  Keep in mind that when they post something, it reflects direct and indirect input from their wife.  And their laboratory extends beyond just their wife to include observations of other RW living in the USA.

Gator:I would suggest that goes further. They also have access to the thoughts of other Russian women not living in the west. By way of example, I now talk directly and indirectly with quite a wide group of Russian women still living in Russia who are considering following my wife's path. That group spans much of Russia, From Moscow, including many cities to Sahkalin (sp?), so it is more than a fair representation. I have access to their thoughts on a more open and candid level than I would have when I was single. I suggest the OMB's would have an even wider resource than me.

Recent members offer so much regarding travel and agencies and visa procedures.

Vast difference (In many cases) between a Recent member to RWD and a freshman to this whole pursuit.

Rookies also have more exposure to the changing whims of the current unmarried RW.  A young, unmarried RW is different in some key ways today from what OMBs observed 6 years ago.

I note some comments from the likes of JB are spot on with how things are in regard to how many Russian women see things and he hasn't been in the dating game for quite some time. Also, over the last 5 years, I haven't noticed too much change regarding how the Russian women are seeing things. I don't think I am entirely blind. The trash is still trash and the gems are still gems and the sifting process is much the same.

However, the rookie needs the experienced member to help him understand what he observed as well as to read the tea leaves.

Which comes back to my original comment that the OMB's are the key resource. Someone has to be the reference point.

Just don't forget, the OMB's went through a search phase in whatever form also and give or take a few minor detail changes to how things are being done, it is pretty much the same now and IMO will continue to be so for quite a while.

The thing that continues to amuse me in these discussions is the lack of recognition that in building a happy marriage, there is a lot of work done from the very first date and it is simply a work in progress from there on in. Seems to me the OMB's got it right from the get go with their wives and are continuing to do so in some form or another. Further, they have no particular axe to grind, nor do they really need the rest of us. Their advice generally comes from a desire to see others do well.

Who would dispute the value of the cool head of MommaD and her long experience watching her DIL and grandson? Hers are posts I read intently and she has probably been longer married than many of the rest of us added end to end.

Hey guys, this is Mark's intro thread.  He knocked on the door, was welcomed, his questions answered.  These latest rounds seem quite unsolicited.

BC: Your point is taken, nevertheless, BS needs to be called out wherever it surfaces. There has been much to much BS floating around here of recent weeks. I see it as a dangerous trend.


I/O

[Turboguy]

Gosh, I/O, you are sure starting to remind me of Jinx.

[jb]

I rather doubt the OP, Mark, is still reading this tripe.  As soon as he realized he was the victim of a scam I think he probably crept off to lick his wounds.  In his shoes that's what I'd do.

Regards the current tiff between I/O and T/G; what I see is T/G desperately crying out that his advice should carry the same weight as others.  IMHO, there's a multitude of valid reasons why that should not be the case.

1.)  Not every newbie comes on board with drooling lips, salivating with visions of a 35 years younger girl in his bed.

2.)  Not every newbie comes on board willing to invest 10 years in the chase.

3.)  Not every newbie comes on board with the wherewithall to afford multiple trips per year for 10 years to chase a fantasy.

4.)  Well,,, I think people get the point.

It's not that I wish T/O and company ill, I'm just pointing out that many of the OMB can't, in good conscience, recommend using the T/G method of finding a wife in the FSU.  T/G should stick to what he knows.  He has extensive experience in travel, where to seek lodging, where to find good food, etc., but he is, IMO sadly lacking in the common sense aspect of guiding the average newbie's thoughts thru what can be a pretty rocky patch.

Some people can respect and admire T/G's accomplishment, personally I'm not among his cheering section.  What he did is borderline idiocy, and most of the OMBs recognize BS when they smell it. 

Sad,,, really sad.