Hot Russian Brides busted!

[Maxx]

Jet, let us put all this behind us. I am touchy about that subject that is all. It had became my litmus test. I do not like to stay upset with anybody (maybe just the ex). We are all 'brothers' of a sort are we not?

maxx 

[Jack]

Maxx I know their must be some good "for profit"  Russian discussion boards who do not accept advertising from sources they must suspect as being "questionable".  But it's  those un-ethical Russian discussion boards that I am referring to.

For example, what Russian Discussion boards would accept advertising from Anastasia?  What agency in the industry has a worse reputation? Can you name one?  So you would think anyone who knows, or CLAIMS to be knowledgeable when it comes to matters that relate to the pursuit for a Russian bride.  You mention Elena's Models, talk about someone in the industry who accepts advertising dollars from Anastasia?  I think maybe Elena's Models does. I think they now promote Anastasia's group tours. I re-call reading Elena's Models website 3 years ago. Oh boy was she against the large socials and group tours as she wrote on her website. Then suddenly some 2.5 - 3 years later she is now promoting Anastasia on her website and now has evidently changed her opinion as to those disgusting large socials/group tours she had previously made reference too.

[Jet]

Well, here it is:

 HRBAdmin


Member #7682
Status : In the biz
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 23
State : Florida
Country : USA

Approach : Unsure

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According to A Current Affair's website, they specialize in documenting "ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances." I cannot think of more appropriate individuals to profile on this program than gentlemen who are embarking upon the exciting endeavor of finding a Russian bride.

That being said, the program proved to be both accurate and a bit misleading at the same time. For instance, the comments of one Russian lady they profiled can be found below:

"...That industry is money, money, money, money." Elena Garret is a Russian born detective who helps would-be husbands from getting ripped off by these Internet vixens. And she has first hand experience…she's also a Russian Bride herself. According to Elena, Russian dating has become a multi-million dollar business, often built on greed and deception. Most of the time, the girl isn't even looking for a husband. Sometimes, she's not even a real person. Elena's experience is that "if you post an ad and that a Russian girl responds to, 99.2% of the time, you're going to get scammed." Men can hire Elena and her European operatives to investigate his future bride, before she takes him for his fortune."

Does this mean Elena was among the miniscule .8% of Russian women that don't scam unsuspecting gentlemen? That statistic is a little hard for me to believe. Regardless, Elena did make one valid point. This industry is about money, as well as any other industry in which businesses operate to make, what else? A profit.

While we are not unlike other businesses in this industry in that we too operate in order to make a profit, we will NOT do so illegally, or unethically for that matter. This we have made very clear to our members as well as our agencies. Our CEO has invested a considerable amount of money to ensure our program is one in which our members can feel secure and comfortable. In doing so, he has afforded us the opportunity to work on a project we can feel proud of, and one in which the safety of our members has become our first priority.

The main thrust of the Current Affair program was directed toward the pitfalls one must be careful to avoid if they wish to succeed in this process. Regarding the portion of the program that dealt with our website, the reporter responsible for this airing used our website several months ago during a time that we were experiencing some problems with two of our agencies. When he called us a day before the airing to tell us what he found, he didn't reveal to us anything we weren't already aware of.

Namely, several months ago, we had two agencies working with us that were not only attempting to betray our trust, but were taking advantage of our members in the process. Both agencies were removed from our service, and all members who corresponded with their ladies refunded long before the Current Affair program aired.

The program also mentioned a profile that remained on our website for two days which featured the pictures of an adult entertainer in North America. Since no one in our office was familiar with this individual, we did not realize the error until several of our members contacted us to bring it to our attention. The profile was posted by one of the two aforementioned agencies that were removed from our service.

Obviously, since our main office is located in North America, we must place a certain level of trust in the agencies with which we are partnered. Upon doing so, we fully expect those agencies to treat our members and us with the professionalism and honesty that such a relationship warrants.

While we have a fulltime staff in Russia who investigates the business practices of the agencies that are interested in working with us, it's sometimes impossible to truly uncover the morals of an agency until you begin working with them and unethical patterns begin to develop. When this happens, we promptly remove the offending agency and refund ALL members who corresponded with their ladies.

If someone can suggest a better system, we are always open to suggestions! Please bare in mind that we are very close to the launch of our new live voice and video chat system. We hope this added functionality will go a long way toward affirming the sincerity and identities of the ladies behind the profiles on our website.

I thank any one who took the time to read this and I hope that most individuals who view the posts here regarding our service realize that we are more than willing to do everything within our capabilities to ensure our members are satisfied and well taken care of.

Should anyone have any other questions regarding this matter, don't hesitate to ask.
[/align]



_________________
David Demaree
HRBAdmin

[Jack]

ahhhh, so that's what it was!  A couple of scum bag agencies had slipped into their network. And I guess a not very good Amercain employee who had let the American porn star pretending to be a Russian woman slip into the data base without checking to see if she was real. Talk about timing!  The only two days this porn star is on the site happens to be during the time, and within a few hours, of this reporter posting himself, or I should say posting his truck. What timing.

It is good to know that this agency is legit and that all the agencies in their network who work for them now are good and honest. It good to see they have a full-time staff checking out these ladies and agencies in Russia. I would feel a lot better now in pursuing one of their Russian ladies. So I guess it's still buyer beware with the women they have from Ukraine.

[HRBAdmin]

Jack,

While I can definitely appreciate your vigilance against scammers, your obvious disdain for our company appears to be somewhat misguided.

For one, nowhere in my post on RWG did I state or even infer that all of our agencies are now squeaky clean. No American company who participates in the international matchmaking industry can make such a claim. In fact, we have an agency right now we are currently investigating. Should our suspicions prove true, they will be removed from our service. The fact of the matter is that good agencies turn bad, and sometimes bad agencies sneak in. It happens, and it will continue to happen as long as this industry exists.

The most any company can do in our position is attempt to align themselves with agencies based upon their projected professionalism, and the initial impressions they give off. In some cases, agencies who are scammers are very adept at passing themselves off as legitimate. However, like I stated in my post on RWG, such agencies do not last long in a service like ours, that is doing everything we can to provide a safe matchmaking atmosphere for our members.

Unlike a lot of other services in this industry, when we do find a lady or agency who has scammed our members, we REFUND each and every member who paid to correspond with them. What more would you like us to do in such a situation?

I'm sorry Jack, but the conspiracy behind HRB that you are searching for does not exist. We are not in this industry to scam our members - period. I encourage everyone to visit RWG and look up my posts by my username (HRBAdmin) to see how we deal with our customer's concerns.

The bottom line is that you are going to find scammers no matter which service you use, and that is the honest truth. What sets companies apart from one another in this industry is what steps they are taking to reduce the number of scammers that gain access to their service, how they treat scammers when they find them, and what they do for their members to correct the situation.

[Jet]

Jack,

[edited due to direct response from HRB -while I was typing this - which provided aditional clarity] I know there's a mutual dislike between you and the other board, but:

I posted the info there

I gave you credit as author

I did not get reprimanded for doing so

The post did not get removed or edited in any way

The subject of the post responded to the accusations

The information has been seen by 200+ more people who might have been potential clients for this particular advertizer in just 1 day

My personal opinion (which others may or may not share) is that this says something good about the integrety of the other board.

RWD is a nice place to visit. I see a lot of old friends here from when I was starting out 4 years ago. Several guys who helped me more than they'll ever know. However, this is a small community with relatively "light" traffic by internet standards. As the word spreads and traffic grows, Dan is going to have to wrestle with how to finance the additional cost of upkeep. A big busy board costs upward of $1000 a month to maintain. Advertizing is but one of several ways to offset that recurring cost. It's a wonderful thing to say that you accept no advertizing, but it doesn't always mean that you are unbiased. Perhaps Dan makes a lot more money than I do and won't mind tossing $1000+ a month out the window so we can all come here to share stories and info, but my guess is that he's not quite that rich or foolish with his money.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest or flamefest. I made a full disclosure when I arrived at this board about who I was and where I was from. I can live with the fact that your opinion will probably disagree with mine. I hope you cna live with the fact that my opinion may disagree with yours...

[ielocal]

I posted the info there

I gave you credit as author

I did not get reprimanded for doing so

The post did not get removed or edited in any way

The subject of the post responded to the accusations

The information has been seen by 200+ more people who might have been potential clients for this particular advertizer in just 1 day

My personal opinion (which others may or may not share) is that this says something good about the integrety of the other board.

 

Actually Jet, there is a little more that you may not be aware of. There was no responce so Sun. night I provided a link to your thread in an ongoing thread that HRBAdmin has been responding to in the Dating Agency section. I don't know if he reads the Scam section as well but this was a sure way for the thread to be noticed and replied to.

I can understand the lack of replies in the thread you started. I saw the thread, was interested in seeing a reply but have nothing to add since I did not see the show. Plus in the link to the show archives, there was no real information that was put on-air.  Anything I could add would just be posting heresay information from Jack's post that you included... what did I have of substance to add?

-ielocal

[Jack]

Hello Jet and Hot Russian Brides Admin,
 
Please excuse the tardiness of my response, and even at that today it will be limited due to lack of time. Just swamped right now as we are 7 weeks from our fall tour and most of you would not believe the amount of time and preparation these take if you want your clients to be happy and meet lot's of good and sincere ladies.
 
Jet I certainly to value your opinion although I will respectfully disagree with you that a busy board will cost up to $1000 a month to maintain. Again, just look at RWL, been around longer than anyone, a couple thousand members, look at all the other "not for profit" Russian discussion boards and they simply do not require $1000 a month to maintain. One thing I see over and over again on all the "not for profit" Russian discussion boards is that you are allowed to discuss the good and the bad about all agencies you run across. This is NOT true on some "for profit" Russian discussion boards (as I well know probably better than anyone) where you have agencies who are making monthly advertising payments.
 
Hot Russian Brides admin, I am afraid you also must believing every word you are being told by some not so trustworthy source. Don't make the mistake several others have made by believing everything you have been told. Some people are very shocked when they find out the truth about a lot of things they were told that were just out right lies. You, and your source, are mistaken if you think I have a disdain for your company, quite the obvious Hot Russian Brides Admin, I want to tell the world of good and honest agencies, and unlike some agencies or anti-scam sites, I am not going to charge this honest agency $20 a month or $80 a month to tell the world of an honest agency.
 
Hot Russian Brides admin I am not searching for a conspiracy behind your agency. Agencies that scam and cheat and have direct ties to the porn industry do not last long in this industry, well, with few exceptions. I briefly looked at your site, I would LOVE to recommend your site as an honest and ethical agency and will be able to after I have had some clients who have successfully used your agency. I could not see how you priced your services. Is the price for your service stated on the website or do you have to get this in a private e-mail? I notice that many of the agencies you work with we work with as well. I also notice you are working with an agency that we stopped working with because of them scamming men. Will be curious as to how long they stay part of your network, unless you believe that a leopard can change it's spots.
 
It was just a case of bad timing that this one television show happened to have their reporter signup as a member of Hot Russian Brides at a time when you had some scum bag agencies who had several scammers on their site and ultimately your site, and an American woman with a porn site poising as a Russian woman. Hot Russian Brides Admin, it can happen to anyone, good ladies sign up with bad agencies, bad women sign up with good agencies. It's one of those things that makes this industry so exciting.

[Jet]

Jet I certainly to value your opinion although I will respectfully disagree with you that a busy board will cost up to $1000 a month to maintain. Again, just look at RWL, been around longer than anyone, a couple thousand members, look at all the other "not for profit" Russian discussion boards and they simply do not require $1000 a month to maintain. One thing I see over and over again on all the "not for profit" Russian discussion boards is that you are allowed to discuss the good and the bad about all agencies you run across. This is NOT true on some "for profit" Russian discussion boards (as I well know probably better than anyone) where you have agencies who are making monthly advertising payments.

 

Jack,

I know nothing about agencies and I've said that before. I do know what it takes to run a board though. You can disagree with the figure I stated if you like, but the simple fact is Bandwidth = $$$. The more traffic you have, the more you're gonna pay. The boards I've been involved with since the early ninetys usually went in one of two directions as they grew too big for a "back bedroom server", adverts or membership fees. (That is if they didn't sell out to full corporate sponsorship.)

I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression RWL was a newsgroup - this is a whole different animal and as such is much less expensive to maintain.

As far as the cross post, as of this writing it's got 543 views over there vs 630 here, and it's in the top slot 8 days after the initial post so the message is still getting out, and HRB Admin has stated his case there as well so I feel like the bases have been covered without any bias.

With regard to "not for profit" vs "for profit": I'm fairly heavily involved with RMP. I was one of the original 5 members, when it started as a yahoo group. Please don't dilude yourself into thinking Khashyar and Lena aren't making ANY money off it, just because he set it up as a non-profit foundation . Furthermore, Khashyar has THE last word on everything that stays up on that site, and things do get removed regularly at his sole discression. Also, if a user's behavior is deemed unacceptable, which happens when personal attacks start flowing, a flood of "complaint mail" comes in, or there is a consensus amongst the moderators that a user is exibiting a pattern of behavior which is disrespectful to other members or the board, they are banned (after two written warnings). So, once again, "not for profit" does not always mean unbiased, and that's not always such a bad thing either.

[Jack]

630 views to 543 views, cooool. RWD is certainly a respected not for profit Russian discussion board on the rise.
 
"has THE last word on everything that stays up on that site, and things do get removed regularly at his sole discression...a consensus amongst the moderators that a user is disrespectful to other members or the board, they are banned (after two written warnings)."    WHAT??, so their is ANOTHER Russian discussion board like this!!!
 
Well, all I can say is that at least the RMP has the class to give the user two written warnings before being banned.
 

[Michelangelo]

Huh?  This does not make sense...r u speaking English?

[Bruce]

RMP - now that is a board I recommend JB join!

[Jack]

Bruce, did you get two written warnings?

[Jet]

RMP - now that is a board I recommend JB join!

LMAO He'd probably die of boredom

[Bruce]

Jack - nope, just not my style.  When you are with the best why mess with the rest?

[ConnerVT]

RMP - now that is a board I recommend JB join!

LMAO He'd probably die of boredom [/quote]
I remember that jb did visit RMP when it first opened it's doors.  It was a bit too PC for him.  (Me, too, but they tolerate the New Yorker in me... )

[Khashyar]

With regard to "not for profit" vs "for profit": I'm fairly heavily involved with RMP. I was one of the original 5 members, when it started as a yahoo group. Please don't dilude yourself into thinking Khashyar and Lena aren't making ANY money off it, just because he set it up as a non-profit foundation . Furthermore, Khashyar has THE last word on everything that stays up on that site, and things do get removed regularly at his sole discression. Also, if a user's behavior is deemed unacceptable, which happens when personal attacks start flowing, a flood of "complaint mail" comes in, or there is a consensus amongst the moderators that a user is exibiting a pattern of behavior which is disrespectful to other members or the board, they are banned (after two written warnings). So, once again, "not for profit" does not always mean unbiased, and that's not always such a bad thing either.

Hi Everyone,

I just stumbled across this forum tonight.... 

Hi Jet...  (It's good to write a post without being responsible for a forum     )

Jet...  as I have posted in the Russian Meeting Place forum, Lena and my focus is NOT to make money, but to serve others...  We receive very few donations, but Lena does receive a small amount of income from her translation work (which is on another part of the website), and very little from our personals (which we charge just a very basic fee for, and frankly I would rather not have on our website because of this time it takes to maintain it...  but Lena enjoys working with it).

We do NOT accept advertising in the forum, and we have a couple of sections where people speak very openly and frankly about different marriage agencies, and Lena and I do not moderate or discourage frank and open discussions about marriage agencies, or any other topics.

I know that ConnerVT (who I also know very well over the past couple of years through the forum     )  would perhaps like less moderation and a more Wild West shoot 'm kind of discussions 

But, I have stated in the RMP forum, as well as to Conner, that I like to host a forum that I would feel comfortable and enjoy participating in, and which has dynamic wide-ranging discussions, but where counterproductive personal attacks are just not part of the game.

This means: giving people some fair warnings so that they have a chance to change their behavior before banning them (i.e., the 3 strikes you're out system, which because it was new, became a 5 strikes and you're out for the one intelligent and sometimes productive RMP member, who was also sometimes an immature idiot), and also stepping in when personal attacks are levied...  passionate free-flowing discussions are encouraged in the RMP, but the limit is when someone personally attacks someone, then either I (or another moderator) steps in with some redirection. But, I love to see (and encourage) disagreements and heated discussions, even arguments, as long as you can argue and get pissed off without calling the guys mother all kinds of names, and calling his gene pool assinine. I felt like clear personal attacks did not serve anything in the discussions, didn't contribute to anything positive, didn't teach anyone anything, and just led to bad feelings. 

A lot of people like this kind of style, and as I mentioned, I want to host a discussion forum where I myself would feel comfortable participating in.

Many people like the atmosphere in the RMP, and some who want a more free-wheeling, shoot-em-if-you-like atmosphere may not like it because they want to shoot some bullets also.  

But, I have spent LOTS of time focusing on making the RMP a place that interests and benefits others...  and regarding the not-for-profit and for-profit topic-- we do NOT allow advertising in the forums-- blatant ads are the kinds of posts what we delete from the forum. However, forum members can talk and discuss businesses, and marriage agencies, etc.

I have read that some of the members here really like the RWD forum. That is cool and fantastic. And we hear from visitors every week how much they like the Russian Meeting Place. So, different people like different atmospheres.

I was reading this thread, saw that I was mentioned, and wanted to add my 2 cents on this as well.

Thanks for letting me drop in... 

Khashyar

[Jack]

Hey Khashya, welcome to the RWD.
 
I think it's cool you also will allow some of your more outspoken members two, three or heck, your saying five strikes before you ban them!  That's plenty of notice and I applaud your decision.  Just curious Khashyar, what do you think about the owners of Russian discussion boards who gives NO one strike, no two strikes, if he does not like you, or certain moderators do not like you, your GONE! No strike one, no strike two, strike zero and your gone! I am aware of some very good and knowledgeable guys who have been banned with no warning, no strike one or two. And these are guys who could really contribute to others, to new guys and old guys alike
 
And Jet, I am curious as well as to your opinion of an owner of a Russian discussion board who would ban good, helpful guys with NO strike one or two notice because he or his moderators simply did not like a certain poster.

[ConnerVT]

I know that ConnerVT (who I also know very well over the past couple of years through the forum     )  would perhaps like less moderation and a more Wild West shoot 'm kind of discussions 

I have no problem with the moderation on RMP.  I think it's one of the better run forums (of any topic) I have seen on the Internet.  I do think there's a large contributing group that has a too idealized view of how life is/should be. 

Sometimes, you do a person a favor when you tell them, "Yes, those jeans DO make your @ss look fat."  Of course, that's not the answer that they wanted to hear, but it helps them make better choices in the future...

[Jack]

ConnorVT, the truth is not always appreciated on some Russian discussion boards. Mostly those Russian discussion boards that are "for profit", who have to worry that some post or remark would offend a paying advertisor.

[Shadow]

Hello Khasyar and all,

Moderating a forum is always a challenge. So far my moderating experiene has been outside the RW forums, but the problems are similar on any public forum. How to deal with those htat seem to constantly cause others to have raidsed bloodpressure.

My response to this has always been very strict. I would edit out the offending posts, clearly writing that I edited them and why, and at the same time send a PM or e-mail to the poster explaining my reasons. Sometimes a newbie would start an e-mail or forum discussion about censorship, but after asking him to re-read his own post they always agreed with me and started thinking before flaming.

As a result I never have banned a forum member. Some vanished as without flaming or trolling they would find things dull, others turned away after discussion on the forum. What often seems to happen is that the moderators are afraid to take action in the beginning. Often this leads to having to suddenly ban a number of people because things get out of hand. When this happens the ones banned are mostly the newer members or those who are having difficult opinions. This is a shame because by clearly putting the law down on the ground rules and enforcing them from the start it is possible to keep the discussion friendly.

Allright, this is my reply, the next post is a service to one of the people that is at this moment unable to post his own thoughts.

[Shadow]

From Bruno :

"Just curious Khashyar, what do you think about the owners of Russian discussion boards who gives NO one strike, no two strikes, if he does not like you, or certain moderators do not like you, your GONE! No strike one, no strike two, strike zero and your gone! I am aware of some very good and knowledgeable guys who have been banned with no warning, no strike one or two. And these are guys who could really contribute to others, to new guys and old guys alike"

Jack, are you speaking about RWD ??? It seem usual here to ban people without information, warning... myself, i was victim of this after my claim of censure from one post on these topic... yes, the free speaking is only one way... RWD is not very different that other forum, maybe more hypocrit...

[Jack]

No Shadow, I was not aware that RWD would ban without warning. You were banned?  And your back?  From what I have seen, and please remember I have not seen much over the last 3 months, Dan was giving ample warning to a few who seemed to be causing problems. One case I recall from a woman who was presenting distorted and un-true facts in an attempt to paint a messy picture to her liking.

I am aware of other Russian discussion boards who have banned some good guys with no warning. Heaven knows why these guys were banned. Bruce for example, what a wealth of information, how helpful he is to newby's.

[Shadow]

No Shadow, I was not aware that RWD would ban without warning. You were banned?  And your back?  From what I have seen, and please remember I have not seen much over the last 3 months, Dan was giving ample warning to a few who seemed to be causing problems. One case I recall from a woman who was presenting distorted and un-true facts in an attempt to paint a messy picture to her liking.

I am aware of other Russian discussion boards who have banned some good guys with no warning. Heaven knows why these guys were banned. Bruce for example, what a wealth of information, how helpful he is to newby's.

Jack, please read my post carefully. As I stated the last post was not mine, but a service for someone else. Bruno is the one who was banned, and the post is his.

My post is a service to him, I do not criticize RWD or their policies.

[Michelangelo]

From Jack (not Bruno) :

" I am aware of some very good and knowledgeable guys who have been banned with no warning, no strike one or two. And these are guys who could really contribute to others, to new guys and old guys alike"

Who was banned?  I am aware of the opinion poll concerning the 2 Russian women...but no one else?  And my opinion there was that caustic, hateful, uncalled comments about men posters were terrible and just inciting bad feelings and eating up time...