Selling Apartment In Ukraine

[ccarten]

I am pretty sure someone has run across this before.  My wife gave my father-in-law the power of attorney to sell her apartment back in Kiev and also to sell a house and farm she owns just north of Kiev.  The problem comes in how to get the money from the sale back to her in the US having her dad do all this for her.  Her dad is saying that any bank he tries to set up an account in will not let him transfer the money out of Ukraine to a US bank.  Not sure if this is true or not, but at least that is what he is being told.

Thanks,
Clay

[Misha]

I am pretty sure someone has run across this before.  My wife gave my father-in-law the power of attorney to sell her apartment back in Kiev and also to sell a house and farm she owns just north of Kiev.  The problem comes in how to get the money from the sale back to her in the US having her dad do all this for her.  Her dad is saying that any bank he tries to set up an account in will not let him transfer the money out of Ukraine to a US bank.  Not sure if this is true or not, but at least that is what he is being told.

Thanks,
Clay

I don't know about Ukraine, but in Russia it is now possible to wire large sums of money from Russia to any bank in the world for a small fee (less than $40). I doubt that Ukraine would be much different. To wire the money from Russia you need the basic bank info (account holder's name, address, account number) as well as the bank's SWIFT.

[Nando]

The bank manager in Nikolaev told me that you can transfer money to any bank abroad but because I'am foreigner I should pay 3% tax.
This is strange being your FIL a Ukrainian.

Better talk with a bank manager maybe an not the clerk maybe.

[thompsongunner06]

My wife sold her apt in Russia,,I carried the money back. Everything was OK!

[Misha]

My wife sold her apt in Russia,,I carried the money back. Everything was OK!

That carried a great deal of risk. I believe you can only leave with a maximum of $3,000 cash. You can be stopped if you have more money than allowed when leaving the country.

[alantodd]

For a 2% fee I will wire the money for you.  Just kidding.

You can wire money from most banks for 1% wire fee.  Be careful and bring an attorney.  They could wire your money to someone else.

[BC]

As I understand it, taking more money out of RU than you bring in can be problematic.  I can see where the OP might have difficulties.  My experience is with RU and not UA.  I do know from folks I work with in UA that monetary policies are getting stricter.

[ccarten]

My wife is thinking that her dad will receive the money in USD cash, roughly $100,000.  Would he have to open a bank account and use that bank to transfer the money, or is there some other way?

Thanks,
Clay

[BC]

Clay,

To make it easier for you to understand monetary policies involved, try asking your bank.  They will have their correspondence bank (partner) in Ukraine and should be able to give you the official low down.

Take a look at page 6 here http://www.calyon.com/reseau/attachements/Ukraine.UK%7Cguide%20for%20investors%202007.pdf%7C337/$file/guide%20for%20investors%202007.pdf

If you are not careful, you could end up paying some hefty taxes on both ends..

Quite honestly, If I owned property in FSU I would hold on to it.  My wife has a small 60 square meter, well located apartment in RU and the price just keeps going up, up, up.. By the time the kids are out of the house and I really retire, selling our house here and moving there might be a realistic option.

[jb]

OTOH, I'm told the real estate bubble in the FSU is about to burst.  I feel good about selling the wife's flat in Moscow last summer and getting the cash state side.   It feels really good to have that money in CDs earning interest everyday and not having to worry about it any more.

[Erwin]

My wife is thinking that her dad will receive the money in USD cash, roughly $100,000.  Would he have to open a bank account and use that bank to transfer the money, or is there some other way?

Thanks,
Clay

Clay,

Did your FIL try MoneyGram services in Kiev?

Best,

E

[rambo]

I have done a bit of research in this area from within Ukraine and it seems that there are restrictions on how quickly you can get the money out of Ukraine.

The best way seems to be to open an account in a good/friendly Ukrainian bank and ask for Visa/MasterCard with a high withdrawal limit (I think $30,000 per month should be possible) and then take out the money from ATMs outside Ukraine over the course of a few months. Of course, this will incur charges of approximately 2-3%.

[AkMike]

Why not have your wife go back and handle the transaction herself?
 She can set up the bank account and have the bank transfer numbers with her to wire the money to your/her bank? Airfare is cheap considering the amount involved.If she's lacking vacation time, she can probably take unpaid leave for a week.

[Ronnie]

My wife sold her home in Ukraine last year.  After investigation all means of moving the money, they cheapest and allowable method was to open a US dollar account in Ukraine (She used Privat Bank) and get a visa debit card that can be used around the world.  Her daily limit was $2,000 but a phone call to the bank will lift the limit to the amount requested for 24 hours.  Then she was able to get a "cash advance" with our local bank or use the ATM.  In either case, Privat Bank charges a fee of 1%.  Our local bank charged nothing for the case advance method but the ATM has a per transaction fee of $3.
I would not recommend giving power of attorney to anyone.. She would be better of going there in person to sell the property and open the account.  If she doesn't open the account she has no place to put the money in Ukraine.
Cash taken out on one's person can be confiscated over the allowed limit.

[Misha]

I can't believe that you can't wire money out of Ukraine. If I was able to wire my wife a large sum of money (in the tens of thousands) after selling her room in Russia (all for a measly fee of $35 and without opening any account), I am surprised that this can't be done in Ukraine.

[Ronnie]

Gabaub,
I can't quite follow what you did.  YOU wired money to HER?  What, you were in Russia and she was elsewhere?  After SHE sold her ROOM (how do you sell a room?).  I'm confused.  If you're saying you wired money TO FSU, that's quite a different thing from wiring FROM FSU.  Every country has it's own currency laws.
 
As to timinig of a sale, I disagree with Sandro and agree with JB.   Four years ago my wife's apartment in Dnipropetrovsk was valued at 18k (USD) when she sold last year she got over 50k.  She now hears that prices are declining.  Relative to incomes, home prices should settle somewhere in the middle but closer to the 2004 prices.

Here in the states, prices last month returned to the level of fall 2005.  Merrill Lynch is prediction an additonal 25% decline over the next three years, FWIW.   

[SANDRO43]

As to timinig of a sale, I disagree with Sandro and agree with JB.

Ronnie, I'm deeply pained you do, considering that I didn't utter a single peep in this thread .

[Ronnie]

Caro Sandro,
Mi dispiace.  La tua sempre presenza m'ha soprafato!  Ho voluto scrivere BC (la bandierina Italiana me ha confuso).

[Misha]

Gabaub,
I can't quite follow what you did.  YOU wired money to HER?  What, you were in Russia and she was elsewhere?  After SHE sold her ROOM (how do you sell a room?).  I'm confused.  If you're saying you wired money TO FSU, that's quite a different thing from wiring FROM FSU.  Every country has it's own currency laws.

Simple, she gave me power of attorney to sell her room (i.e. very small apartment with a shared bathroom). I sold the apartment, received the cash and then went to the local Sberbank in her city in Russia. From there, I wired the money FROM THE FSU to our joint bank account in Canada. The money was in Canada the next day, my wife went down to our bank in Canada and withdrew the money and put it into her own account. So, the money was wired FROM THE FSU to Canada. Simply put, I sold her place in her name, I got the cash in Russia and wired the money to my wife via our joint account in Canada. It cost me 30-some-odd dollars to do. I thought it would be harder, I thought Russia would not allow me to send a large sum of money in one lump sum, but no, it seems they loosened their laws recently. 

[SANDRO43]

Caro Sandro, Mi dispiace. La tua sempre presenza m'ha soprafato!  Ho voluto scrivere BC (la bandierina Italiana me ha confuso).

Caro Ronnie, sei perdonato, e il tuo italiano non è neanche male .

[Ronnie]

Grazie, ma era meglio quarant'anni fa'