What women want...

[jb]

<groan> this will be another one who resorts to PM'ing T/G because he didn't, or can't, get the validation he seeks.

Ken is right, the trains are flying here.

[acrzybear]

Allllllll aboarrrrrrrrd!!!!

[Gator]

Chernoble,

This woman is a student.  So she is 19?  

As a student, it is likely that she will look on you as her "American boyfriend," and show you off to her friends, especially if you are entertaining them (bad idea).  In other words, you will be a novelty.  Novelties become old in a short period.  She easily could become bored of you and dump you.

Did you read FSURookie's chronicles about scams and his UW student fiancee?

Talk to her on the phone.  Who cares if she struggles with some English words.  You are trying to determine if she is worthy of you and the time and money that you will spend in meeting her.

If a few weeks of phone calls reveals that the two of you have connected, go to Kiev.  Meet her.  But spend no more than a week.  See what happens.  Learn how you feel.

Talking now about visas and marriage is way too premature, and frankly would make her think you are stupid.

Name one RWD member who is telling you that your plan is a good one.  Are you one of those people who feels that he is always right and rationalizes away any opinions contrary to your fantasy?  You are smart to discuss your plans in this forum - now listen to what people are saying.

[I/O]

Allllllll aboarrrrrrrrd!!!!

Listen carefully, some very subtly applicable lines in this one.

 

or a later version. 



I/O

[MaxxumUSA]

I just read the archives to see that Chernoble is only 24 years old.
Hell...  I say go for it!  Get married now and if it doesn't work out you won't lose as much as a well established man.

I married a hot woman when I was 24 but she was american and turned out to be a total bitch.  If I had the means and knowledge at the time a nice hot russian woman would have suited just fine.  Who knows...  might have even worked out and we could have still been together!

In earlier posts you mention you were studying for 4 years and don't have much experience with women.  Well...  Get on the phone, get on the plane.  Get over there and live life!  I don't want to turn you into a sex tourist...  but damnit...  when the time is right get laid also!  (Note that some hippocrates will say it's not about sex with a hot woman...  Well...  part of it IS.)

You're a young educated man.  Get out of the study hall and see some of the people in this world.

I say go for it.  You have nothing to lose but a few bucks and a little time.  So what.  You can make more money - trust me on that one.  And you're going to get older whether you go there or whether you stay here.

There is no right or wrong way to do this.  This is life and fortunately or unfortunately we are our own point of reference.  As long as you're not harming others be on your way and best of luck to you.

If I get flamed for this post - so be it.  I'm heading to camp soon for snowmobiling for the weekend with my wife.  I'll catch up to the thread when I return in a couple days.

- Maxxum

[Jet]

If a few weeks of phone calls reveals that the two of you have connected, go to Kiev.  Meet her.  But spend no more than a week.  See what happens.  Learn how you feel.

Talking now about visas and marriage is way too premature, and frankly would make her think you are stupid.

Gator,
I was going to say 10 days max, but the idea is the same and it's important. Chernoble and the girl need some time together and then some time apart to analyze their respective feelings once the euphoria of the trip has worn off. No question in my mind that if things go well, he'll be on such an emotional high that popping the question will seem totally appropriate, but it's not and it *will* (most likely) make her think he's stupid. I've asked my wife about this "What would you have said if I had..." and her response was as you suggested - It was too early, we didn't even know each other, and I'd have thought you were a very foolish man.

[chernoble]

Ok ok.  There must be hints besides the meeting with the parents that would indicate she thinks Im marriage material.  Whatever it is I will be sure to keep my eyes open and my dictionary handy 

Btw heres something a little off-topic on someone else I conversed with before.  This FSU woman did/told me the following things:

She told me she is in university and will never work after she graduates.
She plans on being a housewife and having husband support her.
She seems like a party girl from her pictures.
She told me shes too young to have a relationship then she tells me she wants to get married immediately with someone special to her heart.

I could continue on but this already smells like a waste of time.  This girl is already a Sayonara for me.

Now OTOH this special someone is much more different.  Trust me you have no idea but I will follow logic and watch carefully so if it doesnt seem like it will work then I wont do it.  I'll only do it if it works out ok.

And is it cheaper for apartment or hotel??  I guess I'll stay for 1-2 weeks.  The hotels Ive been checking out on Expedia are pretty pricey

[groovlstk]

Trust me you have no idea but I will follow logic and watch carefully so if it doesnt seem like it will work then I wont do it.  I'll only do it if it works out ok.

Unfortunately you have no idea either, although you don't know it yet.

One thing I'd bet the farm on is if this girl accepts your marriage proposal during your first meeting you can be pretty damn sure that her "love" for you is not her reason for accepting. If, as you said earlier, you're socially awkward she will be able to work you like one of those rock'em sock'em robots. A pretty girl in Kiev is light years beyond you in terms of sexual sophistication (and, for that matter, light years beyond most Western men).   

[chernoble]

Ok but my goal is to have a family.  Really I cannot think of a way someone can cheat me out of that...

[groovlstk]

Ok but my goal is to have a family.  Really I cannot think of a way someone can cheat me out of that...

Chernoble,

Trust me, there are many FSU girls who will use you as a ticket out of a hardscrabble existence, particularly if you're a pushover or she thinks she can manipulate you. If you fall for one of these girls, do you think when she arrives here and gets her green card that she will stay with you? She'll look to upgrade to someone who can give her a richer lifestyle or someone she has genuine feelings for. You will be left holding some photos and wondering what the hell ever happened. That's just one way you can be "cheated" out of a family.

[Shadow]

Regarding accommodation, in Kiev go for the apartment. There are good ones near the city center.

With respect to the girl, what will you expect from a young girl ?
The interesting thing is that she tells she will not work. So what is her plan instead ? If it is housewife, she needs a partner.
So it might be her goal to find a partner and then see if its one that she stays with or move on.

Time for some serious talk. She might be too young for you. Not in age, but in spirit.

[BillyB]

Ok but my goal is to have a family.  Really I cannot think of a way someone can cheat me out of that...

One way you can be cheated out of a family is when she divorces you, claim you're an abusive man in an attempt to take the kids away from you permanently, and all done after she empties your bank account and rips up your heart and spit it out.

chernoble, many old guys made their mistakes for you to learn from so you don't have to learn the hard way. Of course if you do make a mistake, life goes on anyway but it's just better to get it right the first time. You need to be prepared to walk away from this relationship if it isn't right when you meet her. Don't let love blind you. You should not be in love with a person you never met.

[catzenmouse]

Trust me you have no idea

 

Okay dude. Have fun with it and come back in a few years and tell us all about how different you are and how none of us here have any idea about you, about her, and about this special amazing bond that you have formed via e-mails, how your souls are intertwined in such a way that we could never comprehend. I know, I know. Damn shame we're all so over the hill and just don't understand...

Ken

[chernoble]

Regarding accommodation, in Kiev go for the apartment. There are good ones near the city center.

With respect to the girl, what will you expect from a young girl ?
The interesting thing is that she tells she will not work. So what is her plan instead ? If it is housewife, she needs a partner.
So it might be her goal to find a partner and then see if its one that she stays with or move on.

Time for some serious talk. She might be too young for you. Not in age, but in spirit.

Shadow you misunderstand.  That description was for a different woman.  This girl is none of that.

One way you can be cheated out of a family is when she divorces you, claim you're an abusive man in an attempt to take the kids away from you permanently, and all done after she empties your bank account and rips up your heart and spit it out.

chernoble, many old guys made their mistakes for you to learn from so you don't have to learn the hard way. Of course if you do make a mistake, life goes on anyway but it's just better to get it right the first time. You need to be prepared to walk away from this relationship if it isn't right when you meet her. Don't let love blind you. You should not be in love with a person you never met.

Ok I will reluctantly consider Operation Escape from Ukraine as a backup plan in case the girl and I don't work out together.  But have you ever seen the movie the 40 Year Old Virgin?  I haven't but just the name turns me off.  You could say its the ultimate nightmare for someone at my age.  They actually did a research study showing that even divorced AM live longer and happier lives than single American bachelors.

You don't know the reality of my situation in America.  I am stuck in a rut and I have already made up my mind to swear off AW and that is not going to change.  My choices are this for future companion/wife: I can either go back to my native country and find someone who is attracted to me (with the green card and money, etc playing a major influence on her decision) or I can go to the FSU and meet someone who wants the same thing or maybe she doesn't. 

Either way the choice seems to make no difference at all to me except I have had numerous disappointing and expensive failures to find anyone compatible in the land of my birth (its not my fault but its due to other complex issues too much to discuss) and I just want to try something new.  It can be expensive but its my risk to take.

Now I'm going to have to read the red flags again as a precaution.  Does anyone have other good tips for me to follow when I do make the trip?  Can I buy a SIM card in Ukraine or do i need to buy a new cell?

I've already resolved to call her sometime when I next see her on instant chat and discuss with her if its ok for me to call her on a regular basis just to talk and see how her day was and tell her more things about America she may not know and she can share things about herself and Ukraine I don't know.  I got some phone cards for Ukraine Cell so its not an issue for me.  I can also use the excuse that my phone card will expire in 3 months so she can help me use it up

PS. If it does get to marriage I will definitely use the Pre-nup   

[Gator]

It can be expensive but its my risk to take.

True, if you are man enough to live with the possible downside in case your unbridled imagination is wrong.  Maybe you will find your reward.  Who knows?

If it does get to marriage I will definitely use the Pre-nup

Again, you are way ahead of yourself.   Besides there is no need to have prenup if you do not have a pot to pee in.  Slow down!

[Daveman]

Shadow you misunderstand.  That description was for a different woman.  This girl is none of that.

Correction, she doesn't seem that way to you through emails... but you don't know her at all... you have 5 months or so before you're going over there anyway... use the time wisely...  and get her on a web cam somewhere. That way you'll see her more realistically rather than through photographically enchanced boobaliciously colored idiocy glasses...

Ok I will reluctantly consider Operation Escape from Ukraine as a backup plan in case the girl and I don't work out together. 

How about "Escape from my own irrational thoughts"... don't escape from Ukraine, just meet some other ladies while you're there... 'Miss Wonderful For You' could live just around the corner from 'Miss What The Hell Was I Thinking'

Can I buy a SIM card in Ukraine or do i need to buy a new cell?

Either/or

You cell must be "unlocked" and you can swap cards...  but why bother? mobile phones there are dirt cheap really.. Nice Nokia with more than you'll ever need feature wise for like $40.. and if you lose it or it gets stolen, you're not out anything that'll affect you at home.

I've already resolved to call her sometime when I next see her on instant chat and discuss with her if its ok for me to call her on a regular basis just to talk and see how her day was and tell her more things about America she may not know and she can share things about herself and Ukraine I don't know.  I got some phone cards for Ukraine Cell so its not an issue for me.  I can also use the excuse that my phone card will expire in 3 months so she can help me use it up

She's already given you the number... just CALL.. you are the hunter.. you want her... go get her.. don't call her 50,000 times a day, but start with about every other or third day for a couple of weeks.. but don't stay on the phone for long periods at first... always leave her wanting to speak more... then begin to call to say goodnight so your voice is the last thing she hears when she closes her eyes..  that kind of thing.. don't ASK her if you can pursue her.. just freakin go GET her.. sheesh.  But if you start this process.. move your visit up on the calendar from summer to early spring... two months, maybe three, and then you really must meet, otherwise it'll probably die a horrendous death on you.

PS. If it does get to marriage I will definitely use the Pre-nup   

Don't worry about the pre-nup while you're still in pre-nip... if you are going to do this, then learn about her, court her and win her heart, mind, body, and soul.... THEN worry about the rest of it..

Dave

[Makkin]

  My first attempt at giving advice is now..lol



   The probability of you covering 15% of all topics you've already discussed in country is possible but not likely and thus the effects of something simple like jet lag will probably cause you to take the easy street. The easy street will be strewn with questionable tactics by detective types in female fashion and thus you will be back at square one or minus one.

  Take it slow bra'

Makkin

[Jumper]

I can either go back to my native country and find someone who is attracted to me (with the green card and money, etc playing a major influence on her decision) or I can go to the FSU and meet someone who wants the same thing or maybe she doesn't. 

Either way the choice seems to make no difference at all to me except I have had numerous disappointing and expensive failures to find anyone compatible in the land of my birth (its not my fault but its due to other complex issues too much to discuss) and I just want to try something new.  It can be expensive but its my risk to take.

you want absolutrely the best chance for a positive result in the FSU?

then stop day dreaming of the possible futures in the FSU, for a moment..
and REALLY think about your above quote.

you have had numerous failures in the land of your birth? with women from the same culture as you that you understand well.
 you also swear off a second culture of women, (american women)
and are not real successful with them, by your own admission?

what makes you think it isn't your fault?
(it takes two to tango, and yes some of the issues are your own,there is no doubt at all about that.)

what makes you think yet another culture will cure this problem?
(wherever you go, you always take yourself with you,
you play the victim well, in these cultures , you wont be simply *playing* the victim in the FSU !!  IMHO you should take a body bag and toe tag with you, you're already done!! unless
you get some better introspection quickly)

you've struck out in 2, so maybe three times the charm?
(I hope so! but being bent on that outcome only significantly decreases its chances of happening)


you don't want to explain why you are not successful in your own culture ,thats fine,
 but you had best really define why that is to yuorself at least,
and you should  recognize that playing the victim, and placing all the blame on the women ,is actually counter-productive to your own chance of success.
 
you ARE indeed partially responcible for your lack of success in that culture.

determine WHY. The *whys * about yourself.

You are desperate for success, and thats generally not a good path in this particiular venture.

Since you are dead set on it ,give it the best chance of occuring?

Define yourself, and what you need to improve on ,
to make a woman of ANY culture interested in you for a long term partner.
Work on it, make yourself into someone many women find interesting.
thier nationality and culture should not matter.

If any good woman  finds you interesting, many good RW will as well.. 

If women from your own culture are not interested in marriage to you, 
a good RW will not likely be either.

really think long and hard about that, its uncomfortable perhaps, but there is no mistaking it.
and there is no easy path around it.
its YOU that needs to be the interesting person..
changing the scenery isn't a quick fix

You goal is marriage and a family..
the path is easy to define , but *may* be hard to do, and not a fast one.

 Get yourself in a position of being a man,considred as good husband material by women locally , or in your own culture.
 
THAT is without any doubt, the best way to be successful in the FSU.

Then define what you are really looking for in a spouse.

If you go there a bit desperate,  lacking some social and dating etiquette,
if you  need to ask common details of what to do,when to call, what to say,, on any forum..   you need to look inside to be a confident man that already knows what to do and say, how to act,and yes what woman want.

i'm not trying  to be rude,,
but if you go there without these basic skills,
 and without a well adjusted confident man's abilties and mindset..
your screen name will be ironically appropriate.


we can only go by what you post,
 and what we see is a guy trying to walk  a tightrope,
for the first time ,with no training, no balance beam , and a bad inner ear infection.
he's thinking the worst thing that happens is ,
that he he falls off.

Most training tightropes are only a few feet up anyway right?
and have a safety net.

but you have brazenly chosen ,and dead set on,
 training with the tightrope up 300 feet, no net  ,and a tank of sharks under it

[chernoble]

Ok AJ I didn't want to explain that situation b/c theres some negativity in the details but to clarify the situation heres what happened:  The girls I was introduced to in my original homeland do not have the same culture as me for starters.  I was raised up in America so no matter how much we resemble each other physically, the personality and social thinking we have are very different.  These girls of "my culture" that I have met before basically can do the following things:  They have the uncanny ability to shop 24/7 at the mall and buy (with their boyfriend/parents money) all kinds of fashion accessories, clothes, and shoes and somehow stuff it all into their closets in a mysterious blackhole that can never be filled up.  They want their guy to pay for everything and in the meantime their "job" is to stay home (if their not going out partying with friends) and wait for the guy to come back and make the food, clean the house, and bring in the money.  Now I don't mind cooking and cleaning in our house (I especially find that enjoyable I make good food for someone I care about) and I don't mind doing that while bringing in the money either.

What does bother me is they pretty much have no intention to take care of any children we could have.  Their reasoning is thats what grandparents are here for and that they will leave the kids to their mom and dad while they continue to go out and do their essential duties of clubs, karaoke, and shopping.  This is what happens when parents spoil their children into grownup princesses and princes.  In short the society I went to had just too many women who are too obsessed with materialist desires and I just have to question their loyalty and reliability.  There are many other reasons besides this but I think this is enough.  Even a housewife can do better than this.  A housewife actually "works"

I have faults of my own.  I have never said I am perfect.  And I also DO NOT believe that the Ukrainian/Russian women live in a "hardscrabble" life as a previous poster said.  Ukraine and Russia are not third world countries.  For a real bad place to goto where the local women would do anything to marry a Westerner I can think of Iraq or Somalia.  From what I have read in the news the standard of living in Russia and Ukraine has already risen to Western standards.  Their economies and per capita incomes have risen quite a bit from the 1990s.  Most of them may not make comparable incomes to Americans but their living standards are just as good as America or Western Europe.  I don't believe in stereotypes and the "They want western men for money" is a STEREOTYPE that is derogatory and disrespectful to whole societies there.  I know there are scammers there but there are also plenty of fraud in USA and Europe so I just need to be careful and take it easy there.

[Jumper]

chernobyl said:

I was raised up in America so no matter how much we resemble each other physically, the personality and social thinking we have are very different.

and you will experience this exact difference with most RW.

i'm am not telling you to quit pursing RW.
i am telling you to understand that it will be just as difficult as pursing women from your own culture, or past culture.

  These girls of "my culture" that I have met before basically can do the following things:  They have the uncanny ability to shop 24/7 at the mall and buy (with their boyfriend/parents money) all kinds of fashion accessories, clothes, and shoes and somehow stuff it all into their closets in a mysterious blackhole that can never be filled up.  They want their guy to pay for everything and in the meantime their "job" is to stay home (if their not going out partying with friends)..................

While not every RW is like that, neither is every woman of any culture??

 trust me I could introduce you to a million young single RW, that have that as thier mantra, or would at least consider that the perfect situation for them.
it is not hard to find a RW that has that mentality,. not hard at all

What does bother me is they pretty much have no intention to take care of any children we could have.  Their reasoning is thats what grandparents are here for and that they will leave the kids to their mom and dad while they continue to go out and do their essential duties of clubs, karaoke, and shopping. 

Again -
many young RW,, particularly single ones that have children, , almost understandibly
count on babushka to raise thier children.

you will find this situation, and often just a mentality of *let babushka do it*,
 more common , than in the US.
This is both because of economics ,and on culture/society


As far as your stereotype comment-

i also do not like to generalize or stereotype,
but you are certainly doing so by putting RW on some pedistal above women of other cultures?
Especially when you have no time in country there, to understand the average young RW's mindset.


This is NOT a knock on RW. I am married to one afterall


This is to make you come back down to earth a bit,
you are JUST as likely to run into a RW that has the same mentality you descrbe,
as one that has some innate homemaking, deep seated family values.

It is your job to sort them out..
you could do this in your culture as well.
perhapos your odds will be better in the FSU..but you will still have to search..


If i had to *stereotype*  young RW, in any modern city there.. they would be quite normal to most any major city you can think of? LA? Paris?  NYC? London?
Yes very fashion concious, often more than a bit materialistic,
 and often hung up on status ,what brand cell phone, and brand of shoes..
They would have just as many negative and positive traits of a young women in any western society.
 
Stereotypes often exist,
 because something reinforces them, and as uncomfortable and as un-PC as it is to say:
They have some accuracies.

MANY RW listed with an agency, is for primarly economic reasons.
please take the blue pill!!!

This does not make them a bad person, this does not mean they fit some stereotype of a fashion slave with the lastest cell that loves the disco.
 It means that before contemplating relocating thier entire life away from all they know, that they are often pragmatic and thier are but a few fundamental reasons they will consider it, one is economics and hope for a better situations for a family,
and YES they hope it is for ,and with,  a good quality man and husband they can love.

As far as your third world comments, i'm fairly certain i've walked the worst of this earth.
 I like many FSU cities,like Kiev,  and would love to visit Moscow and St Petersburg.
The Russian people are a well educated, and proud people.They have a rich history and wonderful cities ,culture, and country.

but please also go visit the more common provincial cities,where many RW live..
and  maybe a TRUE village or two?
Your perspective  may change more than a bit.
and for reference read a recent trip report regarding Kaliningrad..?
again this doesnt reflect on the qiuality of people in these cities,
but it should change your rose colored glasses on how many millions of people live.
Just like many places in the west, they get by,but life is hard and very difficult.

[Daveman]

Excellent posts, AJ..

Chernoble, if you get nothing else out of this thread, read these posts from AJ again and again until they really make perfect sense to you. Seriously man, none of us wish you to fail, or have problems.  Most all of us are here because we want to succeed, and to assist others in succeeding. Create the foundation, then build the house.

Good luck...

[chernoble]

Thank you everyone for your helpful and insightful advice.  You really did me a big favor.  Unfortunately even though I understand the problems with this strategy this is really a one way trip to see this one girl.  I have no idea of any reputable local agencies in Kiev, I have no contacts in that city, I know noone else besides her.  I am not gonna use the online agencies anymore b/c from what I have read on the forums and seen for myself most of the real good women are doing the local agencies not the international-internet agencies.  But I really don't think stumbling around the city on my own having no knowledge of the local language is something I'm going to do.

Plus I have Plan B but I'll save that for a rainy day in Kiev... 

[Turboguy]

Chernoble, if you read here very much you will often see the comment that you are only pen pals until you meet.  I couldn't even count the number of times I got on a plane believing I was going to meet the gal of my dreams and how many times the bubble quickly got burst.   In some cases, yes, they were disappointed in me.  In far more I found some big flaw that was not acceptable to me.  A frequent one was they were more interesting in my wallet and what they could get out of it than in me but there were other reasons as well.  There are guys who have made a WOVO and met a woman who was everything they expected and more.   The percentages on a WOVO are not all that great though.   I hope it works out for you be be prepared for the possibility it won't. 

If it does work out spend time getting to know her.  I had one failed K-1.  In my first visit to meet that gal she seemed totally wonderful and like everything I was looking for.   My second trip showed a very different person and someone with mood swings and a way of thinking that probably will make it hard for her ever to find happiness.   Spending time to get to know someone before you make a decision about what you want to last a lifetime is the best investment of time and money you can ever make.   Rushing into things will almost always lead to mistakes.   

[chernoble]

Thank you.  I think I will take it slower.  Its been difficult to communicate with her.  She studies every night for her classes and so its not really a good idea for me to call her unannounced when shes busy.  I prefer to be patient at this.  She also does not have a microphone or web camera so talking to her on the computer or video chat is not possible.  I'll send her a camera with mike so we can chat.  Its going to be a little present for a special occasion.

Does anyone know of any way I can translate Russian sounding words that get turned into English?  I mean the translator she uses sometimes converts Russian words into their English sounding equivalents not meanings.

Words like pripodam, pozonite, nemnozhgo, obezatel'no uslyshimsya, etc are really stumping me.  I am not so fluent in Russian that I can tell what word it is by the intonations converted from the Cyrillic and my online Russian-English translator can't help either.  I can guess what it is by context but I don't want to make a faux pas and offend her or anything.

[MaxxumUSA]

Words like pripodam, pozonite, nemnozhgo, obezatel'no uslyshimsya, etc are really stumping me. 

My wife will help:

pripodam  -  Teach you
pozonite - Give me a call
nemnozhgo - A little bit
obezatel'no uslyshimsya - Look forward to hearing from you

I tried the translator at www.translate.ru but it did not work for me either.

Some of these words don't come across properly in translators so you might want to consider PM'ing or emailing some russian speaking members to help you translate some of the letters.  Based on just the words you posted here it sounds like your woman wants you to call more. (Just a guess)

- Maxxum