Second choice......Advise please.

[catzenmouse]

OK, Catz,
Just how should someone point out bad advice when it is posted?
KenC

  I seriously hope that was just another "snarky" answer 'cause if you really need to know that then there are truly bigger issues afoot.

[vwrw]

OK, Catz,
Just how should someone point out bad advice when it is posted?
KenC

First, whether an advice is good/bad frequently depends on WHO the advice was given to. So, let the individual who was needed the info to decide which advice is bad/good basing on his individual characteristics.
If you want to point out “bad” advice to your opinion you can express your objection and provide relevant and sufficient evidence in support of your conclusion.

What a shame respected KenC that at your age you still do not know how to point out “bad” advice

[KenC]

I don't have much time, so am going to kludge this reply together quickly.

I don't think there is any one "acceptable format". Sometimes *effective* point and counter-point comes in the form of a gentle whisper, and other times it comes in the form of a screaming missile to the side of one's head.

Still, the message which is being communicated from an ever-growing percentage of the membership is - the bickering and insults serves nobody. Stick to KNOWABLE facts. When point and counter-point is offered with a genuine attempt to educate another, it is apparent to all. When it is offered with an ulterior motive (self-aggrandization or attempted discrediting of another) that, too, is apparent to all.

- Dan

Dan,
Thank you for taking the time to respond here.

Let me say that I speak here only for myself.  Too many people here try to lump everyone involved in a dispute/debate/argument onto the same pile lately.

I have and probably always will take exception to what I see as bad information/advice or invalid opinions.  I think it is the duty of every seasoned veteran to do so as we are here to provide the best advice and direction possible.  To be quite honest, the criticisms I have voiced lately have been quite mild IMO.  Of course I did choose to use "colorful" adjectives such as calling a statement "ridiculous", advised a poster not to follow advice that was "crap" and even called a poster "clueless" in his advice on a subject in which he had no experience with.  Hardly inflammatory wording IMO.  All my initial posts were addressing the message and not the man.

I can understand that no one likes their advice being dissed.  But in retaliation, it has been suggested that my marriage is in trouble, I am a low life, and to shut the f*ck up.  I see these responses as the problem not the disagreement with the advice given.  The "bickering and insults" come in response to the pointing out of what I consider to be errant information.

I have had debates with most of the respected members here at one time or another and it never had to go into the mud as it has lately.  I was encouraged by a Mod to point out my disagreement in an orderly way and spent quite some time crafting a noninsulting, non name calling post addressing specifically what it was about the advice given that I disagreed with.  It was promptly deleted.  (Wish I had copied it) I take the words I post here rather seriously, maybe even too seriously. 

I know it is much easier to just cast the same shadow of guilt on all parties involved with the disputes here lately, but I don't think that is quite fair or accurate.
KenC

[KenC]

First, whether an advice is good/bad frequently depends on WHO the advice was given to. So, let the individual who was needed the info to decide which advice is bad/good basing on his individual characteristics.
If you want to point out “bad” advice to your opinion you can express your objection and provide relevant and sufficient evidence in support of your conclusion.

What a shame respected KenC that at your age you still do not know how to point out “bad” advice

vwrw,
I did exactly that and it was promptly deleted.
KenC

[KenC]

I seriously hope that was just another "snarky" answer 'cause if you really need to know that then there are truly bigger issues afoot.

Catz,
My question was serious and your reply is the "snarky" post.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

Okay dude. You're right. You always have been right and you always will be right.

[KenC]

Okay dude. You're right. You always have been right and you always will be right.

Ken,
Do you not have the ability to shutoff your "smartass" button.at least for a moment?
KenC

[Shadow]

Funny, Shadow,
But that hardly answers a serious question.  Up thread I called some advice ridiculous, because it was.  I even solicited an impartial view from another member on the circumstances and she validated my point.  At the suggestion of "super mod" I detailed my disagreement with some other advice, in a totally noninsulting way and it got deleted.  The fact remains that there are posters who throw out flippant and erroneous information and advice that could be very misleading to those of less experience.  And of course my fav, members giving advice on how to do something they have yet to do themselves.  Give me the acceptable format please.
KenC

KenC, ok I will also try to give a serious answer, the previous one was the kind of things I deal with on a daily basis, and while it may look funny it can be less offending as some of the posts I have seen.
First of all, I think that you can point out that something is bad advise without the colourful language. No matter how seasoned a poster is, nobody likes his opinion (and that is what is is, their opinion) called out to be 'ridiculous' or 'crap'. Rather than attacking the messenger for being a clueless individual that puts our crap, you might bring your criticism in a positive way.
The thing is that I have seen you very capable of using words like 'I disagree' or 'I think you got it wrong'. However you reserve those for people that you feel are only occasionally off the track. People that are, in your opinion, not up to the superior level of wisdom where they should reside get the unpolished version of your words.
Perhaps you can change it around and be careful not to offend people that are, in your opinion, probably beyond help while being more frank and colourful with people you think are on the same page as you are.

As I said elsewhere you have recently given out very good advice when not involved in pointing out the shortcoming of other posters, and that is the KenC that people like and have tremendous respect for.

[Christian]

First, whether an advice is good/bad frequently depends on WHO the advice was given to. So, let the individual who was needed the info to decide which advice is bad/good basing on his individual characteristics.
If you want to point out “bad” advice to your opinion you can express your objection and provide relevant and sufficient evidence in support of your conclusion.

What a shame respected KenC that at your age you still do not know how to point out “bad” advice

...and so here is good advice relevant to all indicative of the goal to be attained members at RWD:

May your fountain be blessed,
       and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.

A loving doe, a graceful deer—
       may her breasts satisfy you always,
       may you ever be captivated by her love.

Proverbs 5:18f NIV

Christian

[AnastassiaAsh]

What's the fuss about?

As far as i remember jb uses much harsher vocabulary than KenC, and we love him for it. 

[KenC]

Shadow,
Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

Does it matter that I referred to the advice as crap and ridiculous?  Not the poster?  Would it had been acceptable if I had used "absurd" instead of "ridiculous?"  These are rather fuzzy lines to me.  On one hand it is OK for a member to call out "Hogwash!" and "BS" when referring to another's post and yet "ridiculous" is over the top?  BTW my exact statement was: "The highlighted statement is ridiculous" and then I went on to explain why.  And for that I am a
"low life", false accusations are made about my marriage and I am told to "shut the f*ck up"?  Hmmmmm
KenC

[Shadow]

KenC, the problem is complex. First of all there was little wrong with the last version of your reply that I saw.
However some cleaning has been done, which means that the insulting posts now only exist in the minds of the posters and those who read it, and as a (deleted?) copy on a harddisk here or there.

This leaves a lot of room for imagination and most people tend to remember the insults of which they were on the receiving end very clear, while covering the insults send out with some filtering. There for it is best to leave such things behind, and forgive the prior insults that have been deleted.  It is a better thing than stalking the person that insulted you and taking stabs at that person.
Note that I tell to forgive, not to forget.

Right now Dan and the moderation team are very ready to break up any fights and slap down unprovoked insults. That last part, unprovoked, is often what stops them from acting in a stronger way.

[SANDRO43]

A loving doe, a graceful deer—
       may her breasts satisfy you always,
       may you ever be captivated by her love.
Proverbs 5:18f NIV

With an opening line that lends itself to dubious interpretations . Animal husbandry aside, the following is perhaps more apropos some T/Gs here :

Quatrain XII.
"How sweet is mortal Sovranty!"--think some:
Others--"How blest the Paradise to come!"
Ah, take the Cash in hand and waive the Rest;
Oh, the brave Music of a distant Drum!

Quatrain XIII.
Look to the Rose that blows about us--"Lo,
Laughing," she says, "into the World I blow:
At once the silken Tassel of my Purse
Tear, and its Treasure on the Garden throw."

Quatrain XIV.
The Worldly Hope men set their Hearts upon
Turns Ashes--or it prospers; and anon,
Like Snow upon the Desert's dusty Face
Lighting a little Hour or two--is gone.


By Ghiyas Ad-Din Abul-Fatah Omar Ibn Ibrahim Khayyam Nishaburi, also known as Omar Khayyam (Nishapur, Persia, 1048–1131), and best known for the immediately preceding "rubaiyat" (in Edward Fitzgerald's translation: http://emotional-literacy-education.com/classic-books-online-a/rubai10.htm):

Quatrain XI in his 1st edition:
Here with a Loaf of Bread beneath the Bough,
A Flask of Wine, a Book of Verse - and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness -
And Wilderness is Paradise enow.

Quatrain XII in his 5th edition [1]:
"A Book of Verses underneath the Bough,
A Jug of Wine, a Loaf of Bread--and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness--
Oh, Wilderness were Paradise enow!"

[BillyB]

Ken, you reap what you sow but for some reason you can't take what you dish out.

I'm real dissapointed in you. Who was it that vigorously came to your defense at other forums when people ridiculed your appearance and your marriage for it's age difference and that you don't sleep in the same room with your wife? When you couldn't defend yourself, I put those people in their place and now you act like just like them. Silly

Every week you and your sidekick I/O gets onto someones nerves. The last few weeks it's been me and I'm fine with that. You and I/O have constantly reminded VWRW and TG every week of their stunt at this forum with an in your face attitude calling them liars although you supposedly accepted their apologies. I accepted and as a matter of fact, I trust them a whole lot more than you two. I hope you two enjoyed reading thousands of my past posts looking for dirt for the story you two crafted up. Using your methods of dismissing people's opinions based on deception, people here should dismiss yours. Maybe I should remind them every week of the deception you two pulled as you two reminded VWRW and TG. When you craft up a false story involving someone's woman, you can't get any lower than that.

I will not put up with the insults anymore, period. My tolerance for you two is down to zero. Before you hit the "post" button, think twice if you want more of the same. Certainly you two can't handle the cheap shots yourselves. Doesn't feel good, does it?  People do not come here to be insulted. You two need to shape up or ship out.

Back on topic. Many women in agencies may get a date once or more every two weeks. Some of these women may date a 20-50+ foreigners  a year not to mention local boys. If a woman remembers all those men's, form all those years, names after a 1-2 hour date, she's got too much on her mind besides the man in front of her. I can expect women to remember boyfriends names but not the men who swiftly come into and out of her life.

[catzenmouse]

Ken,
Do you not have the ability to shutoff your "smartass" button.at least for a moment?
KenC

Let's see now. It's NOT okay for others to tell you they are tired of the insults, implied insults, and belligerent attitude but it IS okay for you to tell me that you don't like the way I'm posting and that I need to stop. Gotcha. Nothing hypocritical about that. Seems like my previous comment was right on target.

[Shadow]

Back on topic. Many women in agencies may get a date once or more every two weeks. Some of these women may date a 20-50+ foreigners  a year not to mention local boys. If a woman remembers all those men's, form all those years, names after a 1-2 hour date, she's got too much on her mind besides the man in front of her. I can expect women to remember boyfriends names but not the men who swiftly come into and out of her life.

If a woman has time to meet so many foreigners she is either extremely picky  ( and not picky enough in accepting dates) or she enjoys the benefits of dating foreigners too much to be looking truly serious.

[jb]

As far as i remember jb uses much harsher vocabulary than KenC, and we love him for it.

Anna,

Thank you for that.  IMHO, KenC is one of the best of the best here, he routinely hits the nail on the head when certain posters get carried away with the sound of their own words.   Especially when the tag team starts defending their own brand of nonsense. 

Regards the OP here, I was one who agreed with you and advised not to try to recycle old 2nd choice g/f's.    Unlike other women of the world, RWs have an elephant-like memory capacity, they never forget the slightest slip of the tongue and will bring up all these old mistakes for years to come when it best suits their purposes.  Heaven help the poor SOB who gets caught deliberately telling an actual lie to his Russian wife.

BillyB,

Before you get too comfortable up there on that high horse, I also thought your comments were less than stellar.  Very wide of the mark.

[BillyB]

KenC is one of the best of the best here,

If Ken someday makes up a story about your wife, would you think the same of him? People here wrote off VWRW and TG on one incident. Can't pick and choose the qualities of each person, got to accept the whole package. I certainly am not going to defend Ken anymore on other forums. Goes to show you that you can't trust people on the internet. They'll stab you in the back.

[KenC]

KenC, the problem is complex. First of all there was little wrong with the last version of your reply that I saw.
However some cleaning has been done, which means that the insulting posts now only exist in the minds of the posters and those who read it, and as a (deleted?) copy on a harddisk here or there.

This leaves a lot of room for imagination and most people tend to remember the insults of which they were on the receiving end very clear, while covering the insults send out with some filtering. There for it is best to leave such things behind, and forgive the prior insults that have been deleted.  It is a better thing than stalking the person that insulted you and taking stabs at that person.
Note that I tell to forgive, not to forget.

Right now Dan and the moderation team are very ready to break up any fights and slap down unprovoked insults. That last part, unprovoked, is often what stops them from acting in a stronger way.

Shadow,
Thank you for your continued reasonable dialog on this subject.  It is too bad that others cannot follow your lead here.

I find your "stalking" comment interesting.  It isn't so much that the member giving out the "bad" advice is being "stalked" as they have been "exposed" IMO.  Once, twice and then three times less than intelligent advice is being offered, one can hardly resist that a pattern of misinformation has been discovered.

I know that Dan and the mods do not have the time to truly read all the details of these disputes and that is sad to me because they tend to jump to some unfounded conclusions and delete some good posts along with the trash.
KenC

[Christian]

...the following is perhaps more apropos some T/Gs here :

Quatrain XII.
"How sweet is mortal Sovranty!"--think some:
Others--"How blest the Paradise to come!"
Ah, take the Cash in hand and waive the Rest;
Oh, the brave Music of a distant Drum!

Quatrain XIII.
Look to the Rose that blows about us--"Lo,
Laughing," she says, "into the World I blow:
At once the silken Tassel of my Purse
Tear, and its Treasure on the Garden throw."

Quatrain XIV.
The Worldly Hope men set their Hearts upon
Turns Ashes--or it prospers; and anon,
Like Snow upon the Desert's dusty Face
Lighting a little Hour or two--is gone.

/quote]







Sandro,

What are T/G's?  This author from Persia of the 11th cent. reflects the typical antithetical dualism that typifies Islamic, Far-East Hinduism and Buddism, Gnosticism and such like by raising a false dichotomy between the fleshly/earthly and the spiritual, which is wholly foreign to the Judaeo-Christian perspective.

If tearing open or rending a woman's hymen through penetration is the summit - however brief - of this worldly paradise to the utter disregard for future accountibility, then perhaps rape or sex tourism and not marital bliss are the presuppositon of those only so carnally minded.

Christian

[KenC]

If Ken someday makes up a story about your wife, would you think the same of him? People here wrote off VWRW and TG on one incident. Can't pick and choose the qualities of each person, got to accept the whole package. I certainly am not going to defend Ken anymore on other forums. Goes to show you that you can't trust people on the internet. They'll stab you in the back.

Billy,
In your rage you have lost sight of reality.  Please show me one post where I made an insulting remark or innuendo regarding your fiancee.
KenC

[Gator]

If we attack the message and not the messenger, and if the messenger not take it personally, there would be more tranquility around here [coming from someone who last week essentially declared acts of sodomy on a respected, long-term member].

I have noticed that sometimes the so-called bad advice is more bad writing than bad advice, and is misinterpreted.

It is not easy to stay calm and diassociated from the posts, especially if one is passionate about the RW endeavor.  But repeated attacks on the same member is going beyond the pale, even if said member does add some misleading advice on multiple occasions. 

The most important point - readers need to be told that rubbish is rubbish.

[srsol]

Hey jb!!  How are ya??  Help me out here:  " If this thing does go tits-up, I'd recommend a fresh start, don't try to recycle old girlfriends."  Now you know where I am from and "tits-up" has always been a good thing . . . . or am I fubar??  Hope your well, I'll pm ya, B

[KenC]

Ken, you reap what you sow but for some reason you can't take what you dish out.

I'm real dissapointed in you. Who was it that vigorously came to your defense at other forums when people ridiculed your appearance and your marriage for it's age difference and that you don't sleep in the same room with your wife? When you couldn't defend yourself, I put those people in their place and now you act like just like them. Silly

Every week you and your sidekick I/O gets onto someones nerves. The last few weeks it's been me and I'm fine with that. You and I/O have constantly reminded VWRW and TG every week of their stunt at this forum with an in your face attitude calling them liars although you supposedly accepted their apologies. I accepted and as a matter of fact, I trust them a whole lot more than you two. I hope you two enjoyed reading thousands of my past posts looking for dirt for the story you two crafted up. Using your methods of dismissing people's opinions based on deception, people here should dismiss yours. Maybe I should remind them every week of the deception you two pulled as you two reminded VWRW and TG. When you craft up a false story involving someone's woman, you can't get any lower than that.

I will not put up with the insults anymore, period. My tolerance for you two is down to zero. Before you hit the "post" button, think twice if you want more of the same. Certainly you two can't handle the cheap shots yourselves. Doesn't feel good, does it?  People do not come here to be insulted. You two need to shape up or ship out.

Back on topic. Many women in agencies may get a date once or more every two weeks. Some of these women may date a 20-50+ foreigners  a year not to mention local boys. If a woman remembers all those men's, form all those years, names after a 1-2 hour date, she's got too much on her mind besides the man in front of her. I can expect women to remember boyfriends names but not the men who swiftly come into and out of her life.

Billy,
Please try to control your emotions here OK?  And try not to distort the facts to make your points.

Because you defended me in another forum gives you a free pass here to any disagreement in your points of view?  I some how owe you for doing the right thing?

I have brought up TG & vwrw's deception here just once and that was when vwrw was lecturing someone on honesty & integrity.  I thought it was an appropriate comment then and still do. 

I really think you should take your own advice and think before you post.

It is't that I am not able to handle your insults or demeanor, but I choose not to.  That, Billy is the whole point of this current dialog.
KenC

[BillyB]

 Please show me one post where I made an insulting remark or innuendo regarding your fiancee.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6605.0

You will find where you said "if she comes here" and later I/O asking if a story he heard was true about photos posted 3 years ago. He then questioned her existence.

Ken, I/O doesn't know me from 3 years ago and he claims to have heard about a "story" pertaining to photos 3 years ago. So either he is lying that he didn't hear this from someone else and he alone was digging through thousands of my posts for dirt that far back to craft a story himself, or someone actually told him something. You've known me for that long. If you don't want to be a man and admit you are the one PM'ing him sh!t, then that's your choice but I don't believe you. If you want to destroy your credibility in the pursuit of destroying mine, have fun digging!