Money changes everything

[groovlstk]

Maxxum, I totally agree with everything you said. Of course it is possible and USCIS thinks it is possible too with their minimum range. But I just think it really won't be fair to her.

Anastassia, when I was dating RW here in the US, it seemed a lot of girls were given the impression they'd be living the high life only to find out when they arrived that their fiance was little more than a pauper.

I realize my sampling is not scientific, but all the women I dated were previously married to AM (and some still were married but looking to upgrade) and the reasons they gave me for divorcing were almost always the same:

1) Their husband was too controlling, domineering, and jealous, or
2) He was saddled with lots of debt and/or had a menial job w/a low salary

I think one of the reasons why women should avoid one-week wonders is that it's often a good indication of a guy's spare $$ if he only wants to make one trip. But... in a way these girls get what they deserve, knowing the person you plan to spend the rest of your life with is a two-way street.

[Bluebell]

....Very beautiful women (whole packages, as I am sure your wife is), no matter how unmaterialistic they might be, still they want and do deserve men who earn 100k or more. And that is good and right and just in my book. ...

What makes very beautiful women deserve more men who earn 100k than the other, less beautiful women? Is it by itself a virtue to be very beautiful? It is a gift for which one can be grateful but hardly count as her/his own personal merit.
Luckily, not every man thinks like that and there are women in a nice number who are not so very beautiful but still have husbands who earn over 100k  
I would  say that every good woman deserves a husband who can provide a comfortable lifestyle and every good man deserves a  woman who will stick with him during worse days too.

[beachcomber556]

I met Vika when I was an expat living and working in the Middle East, and netting over $100K a year.   Coming back to the US after so many years abroad (tax free) was a shock to both of us. My net suddenly was cut to 1/3 at the very time when the cost of living was skyrocketing.  I can honestly say that our current struggles in the relationship have a lot to do with this situation.  She does have champagne tastes, and she makes no apologies for throwing it in my face that I "gave up" such a high salary to return home and be with her.  Kinda makes you say "Hmmmm???".  I continue to work at improving our financial situation.  Time will reveal her true intentions.  Was it me, or the money, she was marrying?

[groovlstk]

  Kinda makes you say "Hmmmm???".  I continue to work at improving our financial situation.  Time will reveal her true intentions.  Was it me, or the money, she was marrying?

Beachcomber, I kind of suspect you know the answer to that already and just need confirmation I do hope I'm wrong, however.

[KenC]

I met Vika when I was an expat living and working in the Middle East, and netting over $100K a year.   Coming back to the US after so many years abroad (tax free) was a shock to both of us. My net suddenly was cut to 1/3 at the very time when the cost of living was skyrocketing.  I can honestly say that our current struggles in the relationship have a lot to do with this situation.  She does have champagne tastes, and she makes no apologies for throwing it in my face that I "gave up" such a high salary to return home and be with her.  Kinda makes you say "Hmmmm???".  I continue to work at improving our financial situation.  Time will reveal her true intentions.  Was it me, or the money, she was marrying?

Sorry to hear this.
KenC

[KenC]

What makes very beautiful women deserve more men who earn 100k than the other, less beautiful women? Is it by itself a virtue to be very beautiful? It is a gift for which one can be grateful but hardly count as her/his own personal merit.
Luckily, not every man thinks like that and there are women in a nice number who are not so very beautiful but still have husbands who earn over 100k  
I would  say that every good woman deserves a husband who can provide a comfortable lifestyle and every good man deserves a  woman who will stick with him during worse days too.

Bluebell,
There is a lot of truth in what you write, but it is only human nature for those that have the attributes that society thinks are important to be more selective in choosing a mate.  It doesn't mean that it is "right" that a woman who won in the gene pool to be offered better opportunities than more plain looking women, but that is just how it is and always will be IMO.  One can also argue if the men they choose are "better" only because of their wealth too.  But again, that isn't likely to change either.  If it is any concellation, there seems to be a lot of miserable rich and beautiful couples out there. 
KenC

[Bluebell]

KenC,

I know very well that beautiful people have more chances in selecting their partners, jobs or whatever. I don't argue with it because that is the way things are. I simply object to 'deserving' based on looks.

[KenC]

KenC,

I know very well that beautiful people have more chances in selecting their partners, jobs or whatever. I don't argue with it because that is the way things are. I simply object to 'deserving' based on looks.

Bluebell,
I couldn't agree with you more!

My wife, Lena, whom I think is a VERY beautiful woman (no favoritism there at all  ) has the most healthy outlook on beauty I have ever experienced.  Early on in our relationship, I was complimenting her beauty constantly, and she said: "OK, yes I am beautiful.  So what?  There are many beautiful women in the world and my beauty will fade over the years.  I will be left with the person I choose to make myself into, not the beautiful packaging,"  Well, that blew me away.  But she was wrong about part of it.  She is getting more beautiful, not less, through the years!
KenC

[possum]

It is not a coincidence that rich guys get the prettiest women.

I have to agree with that.. The size of a guy's wallet largely determines the 'quality' of girls he's going to get.. and not just in the former SU but in the rest of the world as well..

[AnastassiaAsh]

KenC,

I know very well that beautiful people have more chances in selecting their partners, jobs or whatever. I don't argue with it because that is the way things are. I simply object to 'deserving' based on looks.

I totally agree with you. I didn't really mean 'deserving based on just looks'.  I meant more 'the whole package' women. If she is 'everything else' AND beautiful she is more likely to marry 100K guy, than a woman with 'everything else' but mediocre looking. I know it is not fair and decisions should be based only on 'everything else', but very successful men are different. They absolutely have to have a beauty.  And I understand that.

[beachcomber556]

You are a blessed man KenC.  I wish I could inject Vika with a little of Lena's humility.  Narcissus is alive and well in Houston.

[Gator]

Mischief wrote,

Most of the woman who are/were looking for a foreign husband have "living in a stable country which can provide financial security and equal opportunity for her and/or her children" on the back of the minds...  

and the hope for enduring love if she entered the marriage in good faith.

If a woman respects and appreciates you and makes an effort to make the relationship work it does NOT matter what her initial motivation was ...

After a relationship exits from the crazy love and lust phase in one to two years, it will either evolve as true love with commitment, respect and trust at the center, or the relationship will become disappointing to both the man and woman.  Money will have little influence, although the lack thereof will accelerate the transition.   It seems Jet and KenC quickly learned that their wives were committed to the deepest degree.

Marriages with a big age difference work not because of money though nobody can deny they help ... but they work because someone makes an effort and tries harder.  

The same is true for marriages with no age disparity.  Mischief, it sounds like you really appreciate the effort your husband is making for you.  I imagine that you are also making an effort for him.

[Gator]

AnastassiaAsh wrote,

but very successful men are different. They absolutely have to have a beauty.   And I understand that.

I did not read your initial comment as saying a beautiful woman is entitled to be paid for her beauty.  Some RW subscribe to that philosophy, but they don't have your heart and spiritual compass as evident in your posts. 

BTW, I am successful, yet I did not "have to have" beauty.  My requirement with regard to beauty is simply that I be physically attracted to my woman.   Personality, intelligence, character and values are more important for a life partner, as opposed to marrying an ethereally beautiful woman yet living in boredom and treachery.   

Somehow I am lucky to have a beautiful woman and everything else that a man would want. 

[MaxxumUSA]

It is just it is so much better to be able to actually afford it and not have to live in a 75K house and drive a very old car....Very beautiful women (whole packages, as I am sure your wife is), no matter how unmaterialistic they might be, still they want and do deserve men who earn 100k or more. And that is good and right and just in my book. The fact that she stuck with you when your business went down already means she totally deserves a really good life, and it just a beginning of your blessings...

For the record - my business never went "down".  Sales were consistent.  It was me that made a HUGE error and invested unwisely in 2006 and lost a fortune that year.  I spent all of last year and probably the first few months of this year just to get those losses "repaid."  My mistakes were personal financial mistakes that hopefully will never happen again.

And...  My current home is a home that cost about $75k and it is a great house in one of the better neighborhoods in my little town.  After another year or so I hope to upgrade but this is (only) due to the fact that I now operate my business from home and I need more space.

One of the reasons I chose to live in this city was the low cost of living here.

I spent quite a bit of time in Russia with my wife.  I can tell you that the living conditions in my home blows away 90% of all residences I visited and viewed there.  And my wife is from Samara with about 1 million people.  Not a little village.

I'm in general not terribly impressed with the "Idea" that you need to make six figures to live a good life.  Not everybody has the opportunity, education, or plain old luck to make that kind of money.  In 2002 I left a job where I was making $120,000 per year working for someone else.  I had little time to spend with my son, it was high stress high pressure sales job.  And I constantly had to argue with some manager about paying me fairly.

I was SO fed up with the chase that I moved to a small city and got a job at a smaller company for 1/3 the pay.  It was THE best decision I have made in many years at the time.  That job making my $40k covered all my bills and I was able to eat well and still have a bit of savings.  Instead of going on expensive jaunts I spent my weekends fishing with my son, camping, and spending time with family.  All was well.

I started my business as something to do "on the side" for extra cash.  But it took off and I ended up quitting my job out of necessity about 3 months after I started it.

[Eduard]

What makes very beautiful women deserve more men who earn 100k than the other, less beautiful women? Is it by itself a virtue to be very beautiful? It is a gift for which one can be grateful but hardly count as her/his own personal merit.
Luckily, not every man thinks like that and there are women in a nice number who are not so very beautiful but still have husbands who earn over 100k  
I would  say that every good woman deserves a husband who can provide a comfortable lifestyle and every good man deserves a  woman who will stick with him during worse days too.

Bluebell, I so agree with you...Anastassia's statement reflects the attitude of every gold digger that I had met during my single years in Florida. You don't need to find one in Russia, there are plenty of them here.
I provide good, comfortable lifestyle for my family, but when I was looking for my RW finding a non-materialistic, down to earth woman was my preference and my goal, and I'm very glad I did find a girl just like that, who isn't going to start looking for a better deal when things get rough.

[Eduard]

I have to agree with that.. The size of a guy's wallet largely determines the 'quality' of girls he's going to get.. and not just in the former SU but in the rest of the world as well..

not the quality...just a pretty outershell
inside you might find rot

[possum]

not the quality...just a pretty outershell
inside you might find rot

Yeah, that's basically what I meant by putting quality in quotation marks..

[I/O]

I'm very glad I did find a girl just like that, who isn't going to start looking for a better deal when things get rough.

If you have been through the rough financial patch together, then the comment is worthy, if not, it is not.

I/O

[BC]

After WWII, enough GI's found Western European ladies exotic and enticing enough to bring about the enactment of the War Brides Act.  The personal motives have not changed at all, only the longitude of feasibility has been forced eastwards by reconstruction, social and economical stability.

Sadly, along the way bounty turned into bargain hunting.

[mischief]

The same is true for marriages with no age disparity.  Mischief, it sounds like you really appreciate the effort your husband is making for you.  I imagine that you are also making an effort for him.

You have no choice but to appreciate...

[KenC]

After WWII, enough GI's found Western European ladies exotic and enticing enough to bring about the enactment of the War Brides Act.  The personal motives have not changed at all, only the longitude of feasibility has been forced eastwards by reconstruction, social and economical stability.

Sadly, along the way bounty turned into bargain hunting.

BC,
What a great post!  You know when I went to meet Lena I knew nothing about visas, K-1's, scammers, any of the BS hype from the websites or thought about how to use my financial superiority.  I just thought I was going to meet a beautiful young woman with a kick ass personality.  I wasn't going to pass on that opportunity even if it was half way around the world!  She truly was the prize worth the effort.
KenC

[Faux Pas]

Agree. This is the reason why I want to know about the debts. My understanding is that I have to work for, of at least to live with his debts as well, on an equal foot with my man.

Unlike the West, Russia is a cash society, not a debt one. Many Russians scare the very though of being in debt, because they anticipate the situation when they might not be able to pay them out. Speaking about our family tradition, debt would mean a nightmare, a situation when a person would avoid debts at any mean. If occasionally in debt, one could almost loose his or her sleep, so scary and undesirable a debt situation would be.

However, times change, so I changes my attitude to debt completely. Especially given the state of things in the West. Maxxum, no I don't afraid of them any more. Eventually I 'd be very interested in how do I effectively use the debt as an instrument of improving our life. I appreciate it a lot if I could assist my man in debt management, if he introduces me into this and teaches me how to use debts to our advantage. 

Lily, thats a good line of thought and positive way to look at it. Debt is not necessarily a dirty word. It is a way of life in the west. Many people have inability to manage it to their advantage and thus it becomes a burden. Credit is actually a very good tool if it is used correctly. I learned the hard way. It's not just a way to buy a big ticket item such as a house or car. It is a way to make money and improve one's station in life. The richest people in the world, who own billions in assets rely on credit for their next or newest venture even though they are capable of financing it themselves.  More often than not, it creates a lust for some and dilutes their thinking. Keep it realistic. There's 100's of right ways and 100's of wrong ways to handling credit. I think of it as my 800 lb hungry pet gorilla.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Stupid thing is that if you do not have debt (credit) you won't get good rates, if you have too much of it you won't either. It is catch 22. It kills me. The only debt we have is mortgage.

[Turboguy]

Ok, well I had to put my hip boots on cause the stuff is getting a little deep here.

First off for someone such as Beachcomber who if I recall all these posts right has a high maintenance woman and had to struggle a bit upon returning to the USA.   Sorry, but I don't have much sympathy.   One of my criteria was a woman who was not high maintenance.  If it wasn't important to you then the balls in your court when it comes to keeping her happy.

Second the whole tone here really comes off like everyone is saying RW are commodities to be bought and sold.  Even the RW are sounding like that.   I won't deny that on average a highly successful man will end up with a woman who is more attractive than a ditch digger usually will.  I would prefer to think that some of the qualities that made him highly successful are the same that made him desirable to women and not that his success alone was the draw.   Personally I never rated looks as all that important.  Much like Gator said as long as she was attractive to me.   I am not saying I did not end up with a young and to me beautiful woman but neither of those was a critical thing to me.   It certainly is not because I provide a life of luxury.   As I have said before the house I live in was purchased for $ 3900.00 and I drive a 5 year old pickup truck. 

Third,  A guy must have an income of $ 50,000 or more to succeed,  Bull.   The first guy I ever met from a forum had a serious problem with the Affidavit of support for his K-1 and had to get a cosponsor because his average income was under $ 10 grand.  I don't really know the income of my friend from Michigan but I do believe it is under 50 grand.   They are tickled to death to have just moved into a new double wide that her income cleaning helps them be able to afford.  Now are the women of these two guys beauty queens, No, actually the one with the 10 grand income his gal's face is a mass of scars.   Pretty but very badly scarred from her first husband in Russia who is currently serving a life sentence for murder.   The second, no maybe somewhat attractive but never going to win the Mrs Michigan contest.   The cold hard reality is not everyone is looking for the most beautiful woman in the world.  Some just want a good woman who will love them and they in turn don't offer great looks or wads of money.   There are women who just want a good man who will love them as well.   When we were stuck in A/R is spent a lot of time on VJ.   VJ is full of people with tons of love for each other but only ounces of income, people worrying about how they do a K-1 with no income because they are students, people with very average lives who met the man or woman of their dreams.    Not everyone is rich and it is not a total requirement.   Yes, if you want a beauty queen, it may be much more necessary, otherwise, no. 

I guess part of me is stupid enough to believe people can really fall in love with each other. 

[DKMM]

TG, you seem to have a helluva lot of wisdom in that post.

Its absolutely vital not to throw money around in the courtship phase for this very reason.  I know that I can attract good looking smart women with my own looks and charm (although I have no idea why because I'm a complete dork).  I will never show a girl how much money I have locked away, until we are long into a marriage.  It gets to the point where I appear cheap, and even though I at times let it get out of hand with E with the trips, for the most part I act like a normal middle class 30 year old.  There is no easy way to break it to a girl so I simply will hide the true situation until the time seems right.  I'm very glad I never let E know because she probably would have fronted and charmed her way into marriage.  Its also important for me to learn how a woman treats my money and her expectations of how we will manage it together.

Like Turbo I believe two people can really fall in love with each other first.