Money changes everything

[KenC]

Anastassia,
Thank you for your kind words.  I am so glad that you joined this thread.

I would like to ask you how you would have reacted to Tim offering you a set amount of money every month?  Suppose he had called and said, "Anna, Honey, I am going to send you $300 a month, just to make your life easier"  What would your reaction had been?

KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

I would have been very grateful and thankful, i would have told it to him both on the phone and in an email. I would have written a whole big paragraph about how i appreciated it and how much it meant to me that he cared about me and Andre and thought ahead. And then I would have said: "Honey, that's ok, but i am fine and don't really need that. If you want we can save this money for our future."

I wouldn't have taken it. But you see, my situation was much better I would say than most of single moms'. I lived in a condo in Bellevue, WA, i paid my own mortgage, my car was paid off, i didn't have problems paying for internet - i was in a blessed place financially. That is much more different than when i was back in Moscow dating Lance 8 years ago. But even then I didn't have any monthly help at all, I still was doing much better than any Russian man working full day. You know what I mean? My situation in each case was a little different....But you know of course I could have taken it or asked...but i didn't...

I am thinking if i had been in a pretty poor situation I would have been probably ok with taking some money AFTER we were engaged. That would be fair.

Another thing I wanted to say, i think i said it already somewhere but i will repeat. Second time when my financial situation was better AND i was with a child i HAD to shoot for a man with a decent salary (on top of all other honorable traits), I simply couldn't afford doing it blindly as i did first time with Lance. (even then God blessed us!) Child is a great responsibility and lots of expenses are involved, especially when you want your child to reach some heights instead of him/her being just a normal mediocre kid.

[AnastassiaAsh]

By the way, Ken, i like this picture in your avatar much better. 

I was wondering how things are in your family. Does your wife participate in your financiers? If you were strict with her before the marriage was she pleasantly surprised later?  Did she give you any sweet little presents when you visited her? Did she cook for you? Did she pay for her internet or calls? How much financially did she participate in the whole process? Just interesting...

Sorry, if it's a little off topic...

[Lily]

Anastassia,
Thank you for your kind words.  I am so glad that you joined this thread.

I would like to ask you how you would have reacted to Tim offering you a set amount of money every month?  Suppose he had called and said, "Anna, Honey, I am going to send you $300 a month, just to make your life easier"  What would your reaction had been?

KenC

If I would occasionally be in financial hardship, the best thing my man could do for me is to assist me in locating a job, or a better job, or to introduce me to the right people with whom I could make some more money. That would be an invaluable help to me from him.

[Christian]

By the way, Ken, i like this picture in your avatar much better. 

I was wondering how things are in your family. Does your wife participate in your financiers? If you were strict with her before the marriage was she pleasantly surprised later?  Did she give you any sweet little presents when you visited her? Did she cook for you? Did she pay for her internet or calls? How much financially did she participate in the whole process? Just interesting...

Sorry, if it's a little off topic...

No, I think its the topic (Lena) that got him off his rocker.

Christian

[KenC]

By the way, Ken, i like this picture in your avatar much better. 

Thank you

I was wondering how things are in your family. Does your wife participate in your financiers?

Lena chooses not to be too involved and really does not have the knack for it either.  But our money is our money and she is involved with all big money decisions.  She is better just handling cash.  Which is what I give to her weekly for her and household expenses.  And like any good RW she always has a stash of money squirreled away for a rainy day.  Her "stash" has come in handy over the years when needed.

If you were strict with her before the marriage was she pleasantly surprised later? 

I was very generous when we were together and it was her that put the stop sign up, not me. I remember when I preparing to go home at the end of my first trip to meet her, I had all this stuff left over in my flat.  You know, 1/2 a salami, 1/2 a jar of instant coffee, 1/2 a bottle of Bailys........  I had to beg her to take it home!  She was so embarrassed, but finally did take it.  Lena is the least materialistic woman I have ever met!  If she could have her way, I would work 1/2 the time I do and we would live in a much smaller and cheaper home.  The more time she has with me the better in her mind.  It is me that is the materialistic one!

Did she give you any sweet little presents when you visited her?

Yes and so did I.  I sent her a little ceramic angel pin before Christmas that she still cherishes to this day.  And she still is my angel to this day.

Did she cook for you?

A domestic Godess, she aint.  But she knows all the right restaurants and can order a mean meal through room service!   And some things never change!

Did she pay for her internet or calls? How much financially did she participate in the whole process? Just interesting...

Sorry, if it's a little off topic...

On my second trip to see Lena, she met me in Moscow.  She was offended that I offered to pay for her train fare.  She paid for her own visa and trip expenses to get it.  She begrudgingly accepted some money from me to pay for some luggage for her trip to come here.  That is the only time she ever accept money from me.
KenC

[KenC]

If I would occasionally be in financial hardship, the best thing my man could do for me is to assist me in locating a job, or a better job, or to introduce me to the right people with whom I could make some more money. That would be an invaluable help to me from him.

Lily,
Spoken like a true self sufficient RW!  The kind I know and love.
KenC

[neo]

when we moved to paris after paying out all the rent, deposit and fees we had to go through a couple of weeks on about 30 euros, but then a month later i had some spare money took mrs neo to the paris sales and bought her a pair of designer shoes. my reward was a rampant 3 hour "marital gym session" in nothing but her shoes on the sofa. so sometimes you have to invest to get back above inflation returns!!!

On the whole though i was a bad deal. her last RM was quite well off, whereas im the archetypal Parisian bum sitting around cafes all day drinking lattes.

[vwrw]

You make it seem as if not giving money is a litmus test.  I assert that there is much more

Could this test be invented by smart women; and later the idea was implanted in minds of men?  Otherwise I cannot explain why men use this test providing women with opportunity to mislead them unbelievable easily if there is a necessity.

I think each woman, who has more than two brains, is aware that to make the correct impression on a man she should not ask for money, gifts or spending a lot of money on her while dating…and if she denies money the impression would be excellent.

All the fact of neither taking money nor asking for it can reveal is this woman’s desires to impress you.   However what are the causes of her desire to impress on you? ...Only she knows...

[KenC]

Could this test be invented by smart women; and later the idea was implanted in minds of men?  Otherwise I cannot explain why men use this test providing women with opportunity to mislead them unbelievable easily if there is a necessity.

I think each woman, who has more than two brains, is aware that to make the correct impression on a man she should not ask for money, gifts or spending a lot of money on her while dating…and if she denies money the impression would be excellent.

All the fact of neither taking money nor asking for it can reveal is this woman’s desires to impress you.   However what are the causes of her desire to impress on you? ...Only she knows...

I think you may have wanted to say "with more than a 1/2 a brain"?  There are no rules for a smart and devious woman.
KenC

[DKMM]

This shouldn't be a revelation, the same "rules" apply with a woman from anywhere.  VWRW makes a good point, I would take it even further to say its misleading to suggest relying on such a "test".

I haven't really read too many stories of newbies giving money to their new RW, are you all that sure it happens as much as you make it seem like?

[KenC]

This shouldn't be a revelation, the same "rules" apply with a woman from anywhere.  VWRW makes a good point, I would take it even further to say its misleading to suggest relying on such a "test".

I haven't really read too many stories of newbies giving money to their new RW, are you all that sure it happens as much as you make it seem like?

DKMM,
It isn't a "test" as much as it just is a thing that the guys shouldn't ever do.  You might be surprised how many here have already done this in the past.  Read the thread on sponsored women (tale end of "scam 101" thread)
KenC

[DKMM]

The fools... I guess that's because they want to pretend they are something they are not.  A bad way to form a relationship leading to marriage!!

[Serebro]

The point is that there's no special formula of how to avoid scammers.
all these rules will help you to REDUCE the risk of being scammed, but they are not perfect.

A stupid scammer will ask for money/presents, etc from the very beginning, a professional scammer will make you think you are loved, will not ask for money, etc but will make a perfect performance in the future. It depends on her and your level of "professional" maturity.
At the same time being paranoid about being scammed you may scare a good woman.
All people are different, all stories are different and there's no unique "medicine"...

[Gator]

The RW we meet do not come from a vacuum.  One RW, who had never dated an AM before, spoke honestly to me about RW-AM dating.  She had been coached to smile, to say “thank you” all the time, and to not ask for gifts.  And our conversation was a long time ago.

Are most RW coached and trained in how to woo AM, akin to our advice for men to exhibit best manners, to be strong, etc.?  RW are not stupid, and I feel that they know what to do.  Thus, the RW who asks for gifts during the first few days together and/or later asks for money is knowingly going against the odds, and one can assume that her motivation is not long-term.     

[AnastassiaAsh]

The point is that there's no special formula of how to avoid scammers.
all these rules will help you to REDUCE the risk of being scammed, but they are not perfect.

A stupid scammer will ask for money/presents, etc from the very beginning, a professional scammer will make you think you are loved, will not ask for money, etc but will make a perfect performance in the future. It depends on her and your level of "professional" maturity.
At the same time being paranoid about being scammed you may scare a good woman.
All people are different, all stories are different and there's no unique "medicine"...

Very good post, Serebro!

I totally agree with you. 

[Misha]

Gator is right. Elena of Elena's models has an entire site devoted to coaching RW as to what to expect and how to effectively date WM: http://www.zamuzh.com. She has an entire section called: "101 Suggestions on How to Marry a Foreigner." This covers everything from the ideal photos, to writing the first letter, to how to talk to a foreigner, to the first date, to getting married and life overseas. She even explains how the man may be meeting with up to a dozen women  and provides strategies as to how to gain his interest and be successful in the endeavor.  

[Shadow]

Don't you love Elena ?
She gives out tips to guys on how to behave and what to expect, and does the same for the women.
Now if both are directed to this and indoctrinated it is needed for success, guess what ? On the first meetings they will both behave exactly like they should.
Unfortunately people can not act on such a book forever, so after the effects wear out there might still be a train wreck...

[SANDRO43]

A couple of years ago I also stumbled upon the "Driving School for Scammers": http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1834.msg36891#msg36891 .

[KenC]

Serebro,
Very very good post!

Gator,
My coaching story.

On my first trip to meet Lena, we went on a day trip to Moscow.  Upon returning to the agency office, the office girls swarmed around Lena talking non stop Russian.  Much later in our relationship, Lena told me that the girls were scolding her for not bringing back a bounty of goods from Moscow.  They were giving her some quick tips on just how she should have worked me.

On that same trip, I was assigned 2 terps.  Lena knew one as she was a friend of a friend.  Lena used this terp for information regarding her interview and visa process and got an ear full of unsolicited advice.  This terp had been to America on a K-1 visa.  She was "engaged" to a much older man named Robert.  The terp explained to Lena that she should get engaged and take a free trip to America on my dime.  She said that her 89 days in America was great as Robert showered her with gifts and trips.  All she had to do is act like she liked him and sleep with him occasionally.  After the terp returned to Russia, she found out that Robert had gotten cancer.  She told Lena that if she had known that Robert was going to die so soon, she would have married him!
KenC

[alantodd]

One advice I would give anyone is to go meet her parents and relatives and spend a lot of time with them.  That would get rid of most scammers right there.  I would also take several trips to her country before popping the question.  Really get to know her.  Unless a guy is an idiot or desperate not hard to figure out the scammers.

Regarding money - If a woman asks for gifts dump her.  But after you get to know her and her family and are engaged giving should be expected.  Regarding whether you are rich are not.  Smart women know based on what you do for work and how you act if your rich.  So eventhough a man may think their future wife does not know they have money, their fooling themselves.  

[MaxxumUSA]

Gator is right. Elena of Elena's models has an entire site devoted to coaching RW as to what to expect and how to effectively date WM: http://www.zamuzh.com. She has an entire section called: "101 Suggestions on How to Marry a Foreigner." This covers everything from the ideal photos, to writing the first letter, to how to talk to a foreigner, to the first date, to getting married and life overseas. She even explains how the man may be meeting with up to a dozen women  and provides strategies as to how to gain his interest and be successful in the endeavor.  

For the record I met my wife on Elena's Models website.  She visited this website quoted above.

I was talking to my wife last night...  one surprising thing she told me was that she had to PAY to get on Elena's Models website.  She did not pay the site directly - they have "recruiters" of sorts.  These are people that live in russia, have a computer, and can write the women's profile and upload images.  The going rate is 5,000 rubles for a single woman to be added to the site.  My wife got a discount because she was a friend of the recruiter.  Most single women in Russia do not have a computer and Internet access to even begin to find Elena's site - so this is where the "opportunity" comes from.

A bit off topic but it was interesting to hear this from my wife.

[AnastassiaAsh]

This terp had been to America on a K-1 visa.  She was "engaged" to a much older man named Robert.  The terp explained to Lena that she should get engaged and take a free trip to America on my dime.  She said that her 89 days in America was great as Robert showered her with gifts and trips.  All she had to do is act like she liked him and sleep with him occasionally.  After the terp returned to Russia, she found out that Robert had gotten cancer.  She told Lena that if she had known that Robert was going to die so soon, she would have married him!
KenC

I know such stories exist and I am sure each agency is full of them, but WOW actually reading this made me feel...     

[SANDRO43]

I was talking to my wife last night...  one surprising thing she told me was that she had to PAY to get on Elena's Models website. She did not pay the site directly - they have "recruiters" of sorts. These are people that live in russia, have a computer, and can write the women's profile and upload images. The going rate is 5,000 rubles for a single woman to be added to the site.  My wife got a discount because she was a friend of the recruiter.  Most single women in Russia do not have a computer and Internet access to even begin to find Elena's site - so this is where the "opportunity" comes from.
A bit off topic but it was interesting to hear this from my wife.

Quite interesting bit of info, Maxx. Was she offered to act as a "recruiter", too, after joining, as a way of recovering her initial expenditure ? Does she know how her  "recruiter" became such ? In addition to "word-of-mouth" as in her case, does your wife know of other "recruitment" methods used by Elena's ? Newspaper/magasine ads, maybe ?

[Christian]

Serebro,
Very very good post!

Gator,
My coaching story.

On my first trip to meet Lena, we went on a day trip to Moscow.  Upon returning to the agency office, the office girls swarmed around Lena talking non stop Russian.  Much later in our relationship, Lena told me that the girls were scolding her for not bringing back a bounty of goods from Moscow.  They were giving her some quick tips on just how she should have worked me.

On that same trip, I was assigned 2 terps.  Lena knew one as she was a friend of a friend.  Lena used this terp for information regarding her interview and visa process and got an ear full of unsolicited advice.  This terp had been to America on a K-1 visa.  She was "engaged" to a much older man named Robert.  The terp explained to Lena that she should get engaged and take a free trip to America on my dime.  She said that her 89 days in America was great as Robert showered her with gifts and trips.  All she had to do is act like she liked him and sleep with him occasionally.  After the terp returned to Russia, she found out that Robert had gotten cancer.  She told Lena that if she had known that Robert was going to die so soon, she would have married him!
KenC

This reminds me of my 7th grade Jr. High School prom date who the day following the dance dumped me.

Christian