KenC's T/R 10 years late

[Misha]

Serebro,
Are you sure the "money crash" was around October 98?  I thought it was earlier.

You are likely thinking of the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. Serebro is right that the Russian Default took place in 1998. Wikipedia has a nice article on the causes of the default and the consequences for the Russian population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis. It was not an easy time to be living in Russia.

[Turboguy]

October '98 is what I had remembered.  I was there just a week or so after and everyone was panicky.   I think anyone looking for a desperate woman could have found plenty right then.

[KenC]

You are likely thinking of the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. Serebro is right that the Russian Default took place in 1998. Wikipedia has a nice article on the causes of the default and the consequences for the Russian population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis. It was not an easy time to be living in Russia.

I stand corrected!  Serebro, you were right.  According to the article, the initial crisis happened in August of 98.   never knew that.  Thanks Serbro and gabaub.
KenC

[START2]

Kenc,
   I have been enjoying this report as much as I did Groovs. Excellent style my friend and may I say "you sir, are a gentleman". It's kind of cool to be reading the first part of this story as we already know the middle as far as your life now has developed.
  I was relieved to see you finally reprimanded a particular member here. She  seems to be quite Classless. Things she severely lacks so she strikes out with her pitifull insults. You would have thought that being newly married, her life and attitude about life would only be reason to celebrate, not find and manufacture malicious comments.
  Keep the report coming. It's most enjoyable. I hope most readers will just ask the questions that have to do with the trip and not make judgements. Afterall, it's a little late for that don't you think?
  I assume you made subsequent trips and will also include those or if only one other, that. I can't imagine all the ideas and thoughts that are rushing through you mind at this point of the trip. At this point, are you thinking, wow, Lena  is everything I desired in a woman? Or, why didn't I wait till I could spend more time with her. Do you feel hooked at this moment?

[KenC]

Kenc,
   I have been enjoying this report as much as I did Groovs. Excellent style my friend and may I say "you sir, are a gentleman". It's kind of cool to be reading the first part of this story as we already know the middle as far as your life now has developed.
  I was relieved to see you finally reprimanded a particular member here. She  seems to be quite Classless. It's obvious she is extremely unhappy with her life and for some reason feels the need to attack you and your wife. She's been looking for anything to disparage you and Lena. She's jealous of Lena because Lena has beauty and intelligence and most importantly ...you. Things she severely lacks so she strikes out with her pitifull insults. She feels cheated because she was not able to meet you first and not realizing you probably wouldn't have given her the time of day. You would have thought that being newly married, her life and attitude about life would only be reason to celebrate, not find and manufacture malicious comments.
  Keep the report coming. It's most enjoyable. I hope most readers will just ask the questions that have to do with the trip and not make judgements. Afterall, it's a little late for that don't you think?
  I assume you made subsequent trips and will also include those or if only one other, that. I can't imagine all the ideas and thoughts that are rushing through you mind at this point of the trip. At this point, are you thinking, wow, Lena  is everything I desired in a woman? Or, why didn't I wait till I could spend more time with her. Do you feel hooked at this moment?

Start2,
Thanks for all your kind words and you're right, it is a little too late to change anything now!

My true feelings at this point of the trip was total fear.  Lena's young age scared the hell out of me.  I can only equate it with what I imagine someone feels before their first parachute jump.  Exhilarated and excited but at the same time scared as hell.  I was either about to be the biggest old fool that ever went to Russia or I had found the perfect woman for me.  No in between.  if only she was 10 to 15 years older, I would not had batted an eye and I would had been "all in" long ago.  But she wasn't.  The only thing that held me back was her age and that difference was never going to change.
KenC

[Wayne]

Ken,

Something you said remined me about the first trip I made to FSU, which was 7 years ago.  I went to stay with a young woman.  She met me at the airport with her girl friend, who spoke better English, and our private driver, who spoke no English.  My woman gave me the most beautiful orchids that I ever saw!  Everywhere we went, she would ask strangers to use my camera to take photos of us together.  It was really unnerving to have this much younger and beautiful woman paying so much attention to me!

I will add, I think all the women that I met in Ukraine and Russia were serious about finding a husband.  I was never taken to an expensive restaurant nor was I asked to give them gifts.

Ken, you story is very interesting.  Keep it up and don't get distracted by any side comments.

[mspanky]

She's jealous of Lena because Lena has beauty and intelligence and most importantly ...you. Things she severely lacks so she strikes out with her pitifull insults. She feels cheated because she was not able to meet you first and not realizing you probably wouldn't have given her the time of day. You would have thought that being newly married, her life and attitude about life would only be reason to celebrate, not find and manufacture malicious comments.
  

 I think the women on this list are just being women and saying their opinion out loud in a public forum from a woman's point of view.. Mosty young women Eastern European or anywhere will take a skeptical look at age gap relationships much in the same way we men would.


 I was recently at a restaurant when 3 older women walked in. One with blond hair was not particularly attractive . Dry bleached hair,aging body and an ugly light blue skirt suit. With them was a very attractive much younger guy. I was thinking perhaps they just came back from work and decided to meet for dinner. In took me awhile to  realize this very handsome man was with the older blond woman.

   It didn't suprise me after that when I heard the very thick accent on this guy.  From a guy's point of view I was a bit skeptical about the young man's intent. He looked like he could get any attractive young woman he wanted. Why was he with her? Was it because of his financial situation? Or could it be he was really in love with her?

 Was I jealous of this man or did I want his woman? Heck no! I sort of felt sorry for this guy because he has to sleep with her. It's just when 2 people don't match physically or age wise it's sort of common for some to make judegements or think it may be something other than true love holding them together.

   I also personally know a woman who married a latin guy from Spain .. They've been married about 8 years and he is still with her even though he calls her old and tells her to her face he doesn't find her attractive and people think she's his mother.

She is in love with him and knows she'll never be able to get another hard bodied guy like him unless she imports another one.She would never entertain the thought of a divorce and neither does he .... For now. You see, my friend is the sole heir to a boatload of money once her mother kicks the bucket. Well, not a boatload, but at least a few million. Thing is though her mother is old and frail,she's holding her own for much longer than hubby had anticipated. My friend is 54. Her husband is 33.

 I keep telling her this guy is staying because he wants his reward(besides his green card he got years ago). She tells me deep down inside she knows he loves her and that's why he stays.he would never demand half her inheritance as he knows it's rightfully hers and he has ethics. I think she lives in dreamland.

  Her husbands life is cushy now. He's been going to school to be a nurse since like forever! He also goes out a lot on weekends without her. I used to think he would find a hot girl and dump my friend. Then I realized hot young girls his age are usually not loaded and he wants his payday. Why give up a cushy life where he gets everything he wants for a life where he has to work. Besides, I truly believe only when the payday of her mothert's death comes will he leave with his half.

   Sad, but as a guy looking in I can tell her what exactly I think. I have no jealousies of her either and neither is my life miserable. I'm just blatantly honest too many times.  I did make her cry once with my honesty so I've toned it down. But if she doesn't want to hear the truth, don't ask my opinion.

 Meanwhile her girlfriends sugarcoat this whole situation making excuses for his behavior and telling her if she was being used, he would have left after he got his green card.Do they really believe that or just trying to save hurt feelings? He's handsome and flattering and that's all they want to see see.
  

[Lily]

  The only thing that held me back was her age and that difference was never going to change.
KenC

KenC, what particularly was you afraid because of her age? One cannot really take an age for an issue as such. Rather, one might be afraid of certain consequences of her being very young. What were they in your mind? Her alleged immaturity and irresponsibility and you as potentially dumped husband? Her implied better health and higher life energy that you thought you may not able to match? Your disparity in looks? Anything else?

[KenC]

hahah why are you always group together just in order to crash the other person's opinion , cos fact is the fact you will never change it, only life can change it

It is not about age, it is just about some attitude,I can  no longer tell that it is due to my bad understanding of english language, as it is a shame as I am still struggling sometimes, though I have been  reading  this board for quite awhile )) well some people need more time to get the idea of things, you gotta be more generous

Jazzy,
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your highlighted statement is sincere.  You need to spend more time thinking how your statements may be considered offensive to others.  Only very young children or very old Babushkas are allowed to just blurt out anything they wish, the rest of us are expected to be civil to each other.  Gator is right, if you took a little more time to review and edit your posts before actually posting them, there would be a lot less people angry at you for your offensive posting.

Back in those times Kenc when you started dating your future wife, have you ever thought that these international relations will be such a boom nowadays?

Yes, I did think so as I knew the high quality of the RW would not be a secrete forever.

have you ever had difficult situations during your relations when you were ready to say stop am quiting this?

  Before we were married, I looked for every reason not to marry Lena because of our age difference.  I held her to a much higher standard than any other woman before.  I think if I had seen one other even minor flaw, I would have ran away.

Of course during the many years of marriage, there have been ups and downs, but never have either of us ever doubted our love for each other.

What do you think attracted her to you the most?

Her character, her great mind, her morals and the deepness of her soul is what attracts me the most to her.  I would also add the ability to make a life long commitment to a loving relationship.  I would guess that her list would be similar.  She usually just says "Because you are my man"
KenC
.

[Gator]

One can distinguish between Jazzy's and her husband's post by examining the avatars.

Her chubbka's  has a blue t-shirt while Jazzy's is topless. 

Plus it appears her husband is wearing a cap associated with academic regalia,  suggesting he has received his Baccalaureate (unless that is a price tag hanging down from its head rather than a tam).

[Jazzys_chubbka]

That is definately an academic tam.

Jazzys_chubbka BSc(Hons) MSc(Hons)

[Serebro]

Jazzy,

You are perhaps the youngest RW who writes at RWD.  Yet, you frequently remind me of those babushkas who sit on a bench outside an apartment, chew sunflower seeds, and insult  passersby.  Is that how you wish to be perceived?

In this thread you should ask simple questions and refrain from wrapping them in moralizing philosophy.   For sure, here and elsewhere, DO NOT judge the character of a man’s wife or girlfriend unless he solicits an opinion.   

When you are critical of something, do you first type your response as a draft, read another thread, return to your draft, and re-read it before posting it?

I have always been impressed by the general politeness of Russian people in not making unsolicited judgments.  Why are you different?

Gator, sometimes I agree with Jazzy, sometimes I disagree but I don't think that Jazzy is different from most young Russian women I know. IMHO, Russians are very honest and direct, if they don't like you they will never smile, fake smiles and fake politeness aren't features of our society...Don't you know that?!

Besides isn't it this famous freedom of the word where people can say what they want?

If you are afraid of bad comments why to start a thread then?!

[LenaC]

You are newly married. Go focus on your man, otherwise you will not celebrate a one year anniversary

Get off my husband's you know what.

LenaC

[AnastassiaAsh]

It is not the questions or thoughts themselves, but very often it is HOW one should try to ask them!

[KenC]

It is not the questions or thoughts themselves, but very often it is HOW one should try to ask them!

Exactly, Anastassa!
KenC

[vwrw]

Ops, I cannot make a quote (of LenaC post) to refer my reply to  , so as you removed a part of your post but in any case I will say that it looks like your experience with Russian Guys was very negative. Fortunately for RW who reside in Russia there are A LOT decent guys who would never ever physically abuse or hit their wives/girlfriend or any other women regardless how big her mouth is.

You are newly married. Go focus on your man, otherwise you will not celebrate a one year anniversary

Where from did you draw conclusion that she is not focused on her husband? Maybe you think that participating in discussion on a forum takes one's focus from her/his spouse? Your husband has been frequently and regularly participating on different forums for MANY years however you still  celebrate your anniversary. Why then you think in Jazzy’s case it will be otherwise? 

[KenC]

KenC, what particularly was you afraid because of her age? One cannot really take an age for an issue as such. Rather, one might be afraid of certain consequences of her being very young. What were they in your mind? Her alleged immaturity and irresponsibility and you as potentially dumped husband? Her implied better health and higher life energy that you thought you may not able to match? Your disparity in looks? Anything else?

Lily,
To be honest with you, I didn't think of any of the ideas you mentioned here.  Seriously, not a one!  It was the number (25 years) alone that scared me.
Alleged immaturity and irresponsibility  Not an issue with Lena in any way.  I dated a woman older than me back home that was more immature and Lena is very responsible.
Potentially dumped husband  No one ever knows how long things will last.  All you can ask for is honesty and intrgrity in a relationship.  Lena's principals in this area are the highest  have ever witnessed.
Better health & energy  I certainly didn't think this out for the long term because there was no disparity at the time
Disparity in looks  I have aged a lot since marrying Lena (Go figure!)  But we were not such an awfully mismatched couple from the start.  My grey hair ages me a lot, but Lena absolutely demands that I leave it natural.  My 28 year old son's hair is greying!
KenC

[Daveman]

Come on guys and gals.. this is a beautiful story of two people finding love and happiness together.. this is not the place to debate issues or sling mud.  Let it go please.

Dave

[timothe]

We've had a Lena sighting!!  Hello Lena!!  
Your husband paints a wonderful picture of you with his words!!  The rest of us men are hopeful to catch and keep a woman of your quality!

Tatiana was a sweetheart.  She was a sincere woman with a pleasant personality (as much as I could tell from the language barrier).  I did find talking to her through the terp annoying and almost counterproductive.  There was no way to get a sense of rhythm in the conversation.  Who do you look at while you speak?  The terp or Tatiana?  I never could get a grip on that.  Even with the uncomfortable communication, I could gather that Tatiana was trying her best with me.  We had a pleasant dinner and she shared some photos with me that she had brought.  She was pouring her heart out to me and then a thought struck me.  This young woman is dead serious about getting married and I guess she has already made up her mind that I was a real candidate.  Holy sh!t.  I never considered that.

I began to feel like a total schmuck.  Here I am thinking this is all just a game of casual dating and Tatiana is serious as a heart attack.  How could I be so stupid?  How could I be so inconsiderate to this poor girls feeling?  The longer we talked, the worse I felt about myself.   My mind was flashing back to the other meetings I had with the women, and now I realized that they all were serious.  It wasn’t a game to them.  

I remember vividly the day I had this exact same realization.  The first girl on my 2nd trip spent the entire evening showing me pictures of her sister's wedding to a guy from North Carolina.  She was a nice girl, but I was nowhere near ready to make that kind of commitment to her.  It was the first time ever for me that I had the affection of a beautiful woman and didn't want it.  On the one hand, I really liked the attention!!  On the other hand, my stomach was doing cartwheels because of this large weight of responsibility that I felt for this girl.  (I brought her to Moskva by train from Nab Chezny.)  It was not comfortable at all and I did not feel comfortable for that entire trip, even after I gave her money to stay with friends in Moskva the next day. (we arranged to stay in an apartment together and then a hotel room the next day because the water was cold in the apartment)

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Ken!  I look forward to your next installment.

[Admin]

Folks,

I cleaned up a lot of the material that people felt was insulting. I hope I excised most of it. If not, please use the Report to Moderator link and let me know what remains that needs to be removed.

Outside of that - let's clear the way for Ken to continue his TR.

- Dan

[Admin]

OhKay - I removed MORE of the inflammatory material.

Next step - if this persists - is to take a 'meat cleaver' to ANY post with ANY amount of inflammatory text in it.

Let's let Ken get on with writing his TR without further interruption. Questions for clarification, he has welcomed. Speculative posts about what he or Lena might, or might not, have been thinking seem to be out of bounds right now. Let's wait to see how it all unfolds.

- Dan

[mspanky]

 Fox news just had a segment on an agency catering to "Sugar momas" and "Boy toys" . Cavuto called the 32 year old who joined the agency a "sex toy" and said he was doing the traditional role women play. I wonder what that means. It seems he was as condescending to the men as many can be to the women. But it does seem odd young and able bodies men in one of the richest countries in the world is willing to date older women in order to get a shortcut to riches.

 The lady who has the agency had a party recently and from what the tape showed, the place had no shortage  boy toys looking for a sponsor. She says the young guys are all intelligent and highly educated. I wonder?  

 Neil Cavuto then asked the young guy if he could have beautiful and rich,wouldn't he preffer that? I guess he was referring to age and the women not being "so beautiful".the lady who owns the agency quickly added "The women are all beautiful and rich" They are ex wives and widows of CEO's or woman who have made mega-bucks.

 The world is changing and as women get richer and older they seem to want the same thing richer,older men want.

 If it seems odd to some people and they think to question it so what? We are allowed to question.I've read  on this very board men who cannot fathom a young man dating an older women. Some even think it's not possible as men can't be that desperate. But money talks more than true love these days.

[tim 360]

Ken, Thanks very much for your trip report circa 1998 and your reflections and thoughts.  I do recall some of your history from the old PL board and I had always thought the way you went about it to be both cautious and "crazy" and I had thought it made good sense back then, as I do now.  I think you had a little special luck too,  yet one can make ones luck too.  I think you had both going for you.

It is very generous of you to post so much of you and Lena here and to do so in spite of the insults from the peanut gallery.  Please continue if you wish,  Cheerio, tim360

[Admin]

I just removed several MORE posts which are not contributing anything to the thread.

If anyone feels I missed something that needs to be deleted, you are welcome to use the Report to Moderator button.

If anyone feels I am deleting their posts inappropriately, you are welcome to send me a PM.

Now ... let's allow the author of this topic to get back to his TR.

- Dan

[mspanky]

Interesting thoughts of KenC on older women younger men. It seems quite hypocritical he can have such opinions .
.
   
Re: Are age trends shifting?
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2007, 05:02:54 PM »
Quote
Quote from: viking on December 10, 2007, 04:52:52 PM
Although not the best site out there, if one goes to Craiglists and looks at the number of women in their late 30's to say about their late 40's, it appears most of these women are looking for a younger guy. I call it the Demi Moore syndrome. Seems they want the same thing as the guys, a younger partner. And it also appears they are getting some heavy response. Perhaps some of the younger men do not want to put up with the BS the younger girls dish out and can appreciate a good looking, sexy, older woman who knows what she wants and they do not need to haggle over it. No more 3 dates before the first kiss, wining and dining to get to first base. Much less home plate.
Viking,

From KenC
Sorry, but I am not buying it.  If the woman looked like Demi Moore, I would agree, but there are very few out there that do.  What you suggest is only available to the very beautiful or the very rich.  Now if you talking strictly getting a young buck to hump them only, it might be doable but only if the woman is decent looking.

I think a lot of American divorcees have visions of reliving their youth in a much sluttier way.  Only problem with that is that the youth is gone, never to be had again.
KenC

From Viking!
Ken
All I can say is dial in CL for NY and check for yourself. As to what they look like, can't answer. Most don't post pics. Wonder why.

From KenC:
Viking,
Asking and getting are two different things now, aren't they?  We all can dream.
KenC 

 If he can dish out the skepticism, he should fully be able to take it and understand the skeptism of others.