KenC's T/R 10 years late

[55North]

Lily, private language schools for learning English is a massive industry world-wide.  I can't speak for the US, but in the UK they have become synonymous with illegal immigration via Student Visas.  In the UK, about 4% of 'students' are from Russia.  (Eastern) Asian students dominate.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6913242.stm

[KenC]

Lily, private language schools for learning English is a massive industry world-wide.  I can't speak for the US, but in the UK they have become synonymous with illegal immigration via Student Visas.  In the UK, about 4% of 'students' are from Russia.  (Eastern) Asian students dominate.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6913242.stm

North,
Interesting link.  I guess we were too naive to think of scamming the visa terms.  IIRC, Lena had to maintain 20 hours of in class time per week to maintain her student status and she did just that until we applied for a change in status.
KenC

[55North]

I don't believe such things were meaningfully monitored here before the last year.  Once you were through the airport, your in, and flying, much like some young Russian men I'm aware of in Florida!
 
As in the US (though with differing parameters), immigration by any means has become a major issue here with the media whipping it all up, and confusing issues (EU v asylum seekers v 1 million eastern Europeans v students v sex slaves v MOBs).

[Faux Pas]

I'm confused here.  Did the recent post make you happy?  Or were you just disappointed with the portion? ???
KenC

KenC,

Oh no. Perhaps just the wrong play of words on my part. I thought that an excellent entry to your story. Referring more to the man-talk and discussion part with Lena's father. Very touching actually and I didn't expect it

[dneid]

Dneid,
I have got a news flash for you:We all felt that same way before our first trip!  You will do just fine I am sure.  But prepare yourself, because once you "go Russian" you are ruined for life (no lesser woman will do).
KenC

Hey, Ken, Catzen,
I am glad to hear that I am going through is normal.  I kinda of figured it was.  Just nice to hear from a couple of guys who have been successful at this that what I am feeling is normal.
All of you guys here have been a great resource from me.  I have received numerous PMs with names and contacts for my trip.  I have contacted many folks in Ukraine and I think I am getting things lined up.  I have chatted with Pavel in Kiev several times and find him to be a great guy.  I am looking forward to meeting him.  BTW, Simoni, Pavel says hello and asked about Aloena.  He sends his regards to her as well.  Dale, Yaroslav has contacted me as well.  He seems to be a neat guy as well.  Thanks to all of you for the help.
I would like to request that you all watch my Off to Ukraine post in Starting Out.  I have posted  a couple of questions there with no reply for a few days.  I ask only so I can keep this thread updated for the newbs to some.  I would like to get this thread in a state where it can become a reference for the newbs, but I need your help to do that.
Thanks, all.  I will keep you all posted from Ukraine.  Less than 10 days now.  Damn, my stomach just lurches from one list to the next!!!  Can't wait to get boots on the ground.

[Cold Warrior]

Nice one KenC, I 'll read all 17 pages this weekend

[KenC]

Nice one KenC, I 'll read all 17 pages this weekend

Cold Warrior,
Thanks, I hope you enjoy it.  I guess I better get on with it and finish it up too.
KenC

[UTRO]

Nice one KenC, I 'll read all 17 pages this weekend

Eighteen Pages now!! Gotta' ask Ken... either you have a Great Memory or you kept a Journal? Sorry, you may have stated what if either already... but I'm too lazy to dig back that deep!! Thanks! My Lana enjoys your Trip Report Posts and says that regardless of your Age she understands why your Lena digs ya'!! Something to do with your Strong Personality and Confidence.   

[KenC]

Eighteen Pages now!! Gotta' ask Ken... either you have a Great Memory or you kept a Journal? Sorry, you may have stated what if either already... but I'm too lazy to dig back that deep!! Thanks! My Lana enjoys your Trip Report Posts and says that regardless of your Age she understands why your Lena digs ya'!! Something to do with your Strong Personality and Confidence.   

Thanks, glad the two of you enjoyed it.  No journal here, but it has been a wonderful walk down memory lane.  You tend to remember the important stuff.    Some of the things seem like they happened yesterday, others I remembered along the way to writing this and some of it I asked Lena to jog my memory.

I have never doubted Lena's love for me from very early on in our relationship.  I have blamed it on her mom dropping her on her head as a baby! (kidding of course)
KenC

[Shelfstuff]

I'm sure it takes a lot of effort to go back and remember all of this, not to mention the time and effort to type it all out.

And then there is the willingness to put yourself "out there" and share some of your more personal experiences.  TR's like this have to be the nicest feature of these boards, whether to learn from or to bring back memories, or to just enjoy like a good movie, and I'm sure that for every one person who gives you an encouraging word here and there to keep writing and sharing, there are at least a good 20-30 other people (as myself) who are quietly following along, and who keep checking back to see if KenC wrote more since the last time we were on.

Thanks, Ken.  We appreciate it!
Watching for more......... 

[KenC]

The rest of the Moscow trip
Sorry for the long delays folks.

The rest of the trip was really not too much to describe to be honest.  It was Lena and I enjoying each other’s company, walking the streets of Moscow and mostly enjoying the hotel’s facilities.  There were a couple of incidents that helped me understand just what kind of person Lena was though.

I do not use credit cards.  I use debit cards.  I transferred the amount of money I thought I needed for the trip into the account which is connected to my debit card.  That amount plus the cash I brought would surely be enough.  Well, I severely underestimated the cost of the trip and the expensiveness of Moscow.  One of the items that “bit me” was the AVT tax added to my room charge.  This little extra runs 25%!!!!  Suddenly, I was in a position of having a shortfall of funds for my travel expenses.  (I was keeping an eye on my hotel expenses through their in house TV system)  Yikes! :hairraising:

When this shortfall was realized, I contacted my assistant, Joann, to have her transfer money from my business account to my personal account.  But it would take some time for the deposit to be recorded.  In the interim, I would have to cool my pace of spending, slowing it down considerably.  I have to admit that I was a little embarrassed to have to explain this to Lena.  Would she think I was incapable of money handling or maybe she would think I was playing a role that exceeded my normal level?  Playing poor is not a role I was accustomed to playing. 

I explained everything in detail to Lena.  My fears were for naught as she didn’t blink an eye and told me she knew exactly where we would have dinner that night.  In fact she said it was one of her favorite spots to eat in Moscow and it was very inexpensive.  She also offered to pay for the dinner that night.  Later that evening we caught a cab to Patio Pizza near the Olympic stadium.  To be honest, I never quite understood the name of the place until I saw the sign because somehow Lena’s accent just confused me and I didn’t want to keep asking her to repeat it.   

Patio Pizza is a buffet style restaurant with an open salad and pasta bar.  Of course pizza is also offered.  Beer and wine is also served.  All in all, it was a pleasant place at a very reasonable cost.  As I have learned over the years, Lena loves buffets and especially salad bars.  Our dinner was in the $20 to $30 range and of course, I paid.  It was very nice to know that Lena could downshift into a more frugal level without a bit of a problem.

There was also a funny incident regarding the Godiva chocolates I had given to Lena at the beginning of the trip.  Unknown to me, Lena was pacing her Godiva chocolate intake so as to be able to eat the last piece on our last day together.  Of course this had nothing to do with her devouring any other chocolate available from the mini bar!     Well, somehow,  the women that cleaned our room either took her last 2 pieces of Godiva chocolates or assumed we were done with them and threw the box away.  Not a big deal in my book, but Lena was ready to start WWIII as she was sure it was a preplanned conspiracy to cheat her out of her few remaining chocolates.  TFF!  It took a while for me to settle her down and talk her out of making a big commotion out of it with the hotel.  I guess I didn’t appreciate how much she liked the gift in the first place.

Our last morning in Moscow

The reality of having to leave this woman I had fallen in love with was hitting me like a ton of bricks the last morning we were to be together.  Our breakfast in the Atrium restaurant was very melancholy to say the least.   We were both full of questions without any immediate answers.  When will we see each other again?  Where will this great love affair lead us?  What is the logical next step?  Would time and distance erode what we have found in each other?  Just how will this all end? :noidea:

Lena rode with me to the airport for my flight home.  She would catch a cab to the train station after I checked in for my flight.  The sadness of leaving her was overwhelming for both of us. There were a few conclusions made on this trip.  The most obvious was that we were hopelessly in love with each other.  The other was that somehow, somewhere we needed to be together.   It was a long sad flight home and my mind was racing with ideas of how we could be together again.

[dneid]

Something to do with your Strong Personality and Confidence.   

Hey, Guys, I need to ask about this as several women when I was there made comments about my having a strong personality.  I am used to my ex beating me over the head about this, so I equate it as a negative trait.  Yet, every time any of the ladies commented on this, it seemed to be a positive light. Overall, is this a good thing for the women in Ukraine or the FSU?  Lady S even commented that she ran into a friend of hers the night before I left who had meet me while I was playing guitar in the park.  We chatted for a bit and her friend commented to her that she meat this delightful Texan and enjoyed talking with him.  Lady S was amazed at my ability to meet people and make them feel comfortable.  She met my guardian babushka and was amazed at what the babushka had to say to her about me.  She commented that life with me would certainly never be boring.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Great friggin tr Ken.  I loved reading it.

I am back in Ukraine after 3 months on the beach in India.  Very nice and relaxing but glad to be back.  We now have to wait for Sveta's interview in May to get back to the states.  Heck it has been over a year since I have been home.  I don't miss it too much but do miss some of the food.

Anyway, it was a joy to read your TR and thanks for posting it.  I hate seeing some of the usual BS postings and attacks but luckily Dan cleaned it up to make this a great read.


Regards,


Thomas

[KenC]

Hey, Guys, I need to ask about this as several women when I was there made comments about my having a strong personality.  I am used to my ex beating me over the head about this, so I equate it as a negative trait.  Yet, every time any of the ladies commented on this, it seemed to be a positive light. Overall, is this a good thing for the women in Ukraine or the FSU?  Lady S even commented that she ran into a friend of hers the night before I left who had meet me while I was playing guitar in the park.  We chatted for a bit and her friend commented to her that she meat this delightful Texan and enjoyed talking with him.  Lady S was amazed at my ability to meet people and make them feel comfortable.  She met my guardian babushka and was amazed at what the babushka had to say to her about me.  She commented that life with me would certainly never be boring.

dnied,
It all depends upon the definition of the word "strong."  Is the personality "strong" in a way of being confident and convicted in your beliefs, or is it "strong" in a way of trying to dominate a weaker person?  Or is it "strong" as in pungent?  :noidea:  A lot also depends on the lady in question too.  I know Lena would be totally turned off by a girlie man.  She being a strong confident woman sets the bar a little high in this category with her.  I would say generally speaking that decisive and confident men are attractive to most women any where.  Of course this is in the dating process only because the women spend the rest of their married lives trying to break you of these "bad" habits after marriage.
 
KenC

[KenC]

Great friggin tr Ken.  I loved reading it.

I am back in Ukraine after 3 months on the beach in India.  Very nice and relaxing but glad to be back.  We now have to wait for Sveta's interview in May to get back to the states.  Heck it has been over a year since I have been home.  I don't miss it too much but do miss some of the food.

Anyway, it was a joy to read your TR and thanks for posting it.  I hate seeing some of the usual BS postings and attacks but luckily Dan cleaned it up to make this a great read.


Regards,


Thomas

Thomas,
Welcome home and thanks for your kind comments.  Glad you enjoyed it.  Now go eat a Big Mac! 
KenC

[dneid]

Hey, Ken,
Yeah, after I posted this, I realized that I should have defined what I meant by strong.  In my case, I am confident and make friends easily.  As a friend once told me, "You walk into a room and in 10 minutes you know almost everyone and you have made at least 3 friends."  I do tend to dominate a gathering.  It is not that I like being the center of attention; heck, there are times when I do not like it!!!  I am very extroverted and have never met a stranger.  I am confident of who I am and what I can accomplish.  I guess this is what I meant by strong.  I am not explaining it as well as I would like to..... grrrrrrr.

[Simoni]

Hey Ken, great story!  Thanks for sharing.

[2tallbill]

Ken, great story.

I for one would like to hear the rest.
For example, when did you go back? how did you pass
the time between trips? where, how what why etc.

I realize it's none of my business, but if you are willing to
tell I would definitely like to here the story.

Take care,


Bill

[AnastassiaAsh]

And when will we get to the wedding pictures?  I have been waiting for a long time already. 

[SteveM]

Hey Ken,

Well, it has indeed been a while since we last chatted. But I do remember the first time, back in 98 sitting in the LP offices. I had the privilege of watching you go through the process first hand. I started working at the Lifetime Partners in the summer of 1998 and made my first trip to Tver January 1st, 1999. I remember meeting you in person, Ken, and like the rest of the office staff (Ray, Clarke, Marc, et al) I thought there was no way this relationship would work out.

We were so wrong. And I am sorry for ever doubting you.

I am happy to see that your relationship is still going strong. What I understand now, and couldn't understand then, was how ready you were for this moment in your life. You were totally confident (the importance of which cannot be overestimated) and focused in your desire to make your relationship work. I still remember shaking my head in disbelief when I saw you guys together. Pictures do not do her justice. In person she was absolutely stunning (I'm sure she still is). But it served as a valuable lesson for me and it's too bad more guys couldn't have been a fly on the wall to observe your courtship.

As for me, more than likely I was that dazed and confused guy you described earlier on. Either me or another client....there were many who were just as overwhelmed by their first trip to Russia as I was. Nadya and her crew scheduled 8 dates for me that first day!! OI!! It took me about a year to get my bearings. But that's the difference. You showed up in Tver with your head screwed on straight right away; confident, secure and absolutely sure about the girl you were interested in. I remember talking with you in the hall, just outside of SMAK. I said "Dude, why not see some other girls?" Your response was, "I'm only here for Lena. That's it." You laid it on the line and it worked out for you. Good for you, Ken.

As for my remaining years at Lifetime Partners, well, ahh...nevermind.

A long overdue congratulations to the both of you, Kena and Lena.

[KenC]

Hey Ken,

Well, it has indeed been a while since we last chatted. But I do remember the first time, back in 98 sitting in the LP offices. I had the privilege of watching you go through the process first hand. I started working at the Lifetime Partners in the summer of 1998 and made my first trip to Tver January 1st, 1999. I remember meeting you in person, Ken, and like the rest of the office staff (Ray, Clarke, Marc, et al) I thought there was no way this relationship would work out.

We were so wrong. And I am sorry for ever doubting you.

I am happy to see that your relationship is still going strong. What I understand now, and couldn't understand then, was how ready you were for this moment in your life. You were totally confident (the importance of which cannot be overestimated) and focused in your desire to make your relationship work. I still remember shaking my head in disbelief when I saw you guys together. Pictures do not do her justice. In person she was absolutely stunning (I'm sure she still is). But it served as a valuable lesson for me and it's too bad more guys couldn't have been a fly on the wall to observe your courtship.

As for me, more than likely I was that dazed and confused guy you described earlier on. Either me or another client....there were many who were just as overwhelmed by their first trip to Russia as I was. Nadya and her crew scheduled 8 dates for me that first day!! OI!! It took me about a year to get my bearings. But that's the difference. You showed up in Tver with your head screwed on straight right away; confident, secure and absolutely sure about the girl you were interested in. I remember talking with you in the hall, just outside of SMAK. I said "Dude, why not see some other girls?" Your response was, "I'm only here for Lena. That's it." You laid it on the line and it worked out for you. Good for you, Ken.

As for my remaining years at Lifetime Partners, well, ahh...nevermind.

A long overdue congratulations to the both of you, Kena and Lena.

Wow, Steve,
Thank you for all your kind words for Lena and I.

I know Ray and Clarke had their doubts about Lena and I "making it" but no more than I did.  Come on, you would have to be an idiot to give "us" any reasonable chance at all.  So no apology necessary.  I had many long telephone conversations with Ray prior to going over.  It was him in fact that insisted that I meet at least a few other women while I was there.  I am sure it was his method of trying to help me not to get broken hearted when things fell apart with Lena.

I certainly do not recommend the path I took for others as the probability of success is quite small.  I know that Ray, Clarke and Marc all warned me that many men had made a play for Lena and all fell on their butts.  I knew we had something special very early on, but don't most people think that too?  I have always maintained that Lena and I are an aberration and not an example to be followed.

Did you ever find the RW you were looking for? :noidea:
KenC

[SteveM]

You may maintain that you and Lena are an aberration. Indeed, going on your first trip just to meet that one person and then end up marrying her is beating the odds for sure. But you did everything possible pre-trip to increase your odds. You were prepared, focused, confident and a decent man. I guess I'm starting to sound like a broken record here.

As for me, I've never felt comfortable discussing my private life on a public forum. I traded in my anonymity to be in the business, but I'll be happy to fill you in off-line.

[KenC]

Apart again/ visa journey

Being apart from Lena was pure torture for me as it was for her.  Here we both knew we needed to be together, but how to pull this off was a little mind boggling for me.  Information was very hard to come by in 1999 in regard to visas and such.  At least it was for me.  Oh. If there only were a RWD back then!  One post and I would have 25 different answers of how to proceed.  The only real information I had was what LTP had told me regarding fiancée visas and I was just not ready to commit to marriage at this point.  Getting engaged to a woman that I had spent only a few weeks with was a bazaar idea then as it is now to me.  No matter how hot the flame was between us, we just had to spend more time together before taking such a dramatic step.

In order to explore our options, I met with the best immigration law firm in the Detroit area. The one thing he impressed upon me is that once Lena entered into the US legally, all other options were possible, meaning that we could petition for a change of status after her legal entry.  Because of Lena’s age and student status in Russia, the attorney suggested we explore the possibility of her coming here on a student visa.  We discussed in detail the requirements for such a visa and it seemed to be our best option short of the K-1.  The student visa would offer Lena the chance to spend unlimited time here in America and also give her multiple entries, so she could go back and forth to Russia freely.
 
My first step was to find a school for her.  I contacted the local Berlitz School.  Even though they are very expensive, they were also very helpful in the paperwork required to obtain the student visa.  Berlitz was well versed in all the required documents and enrolling Lena in a private study of English was as easy as could be.  I prepaid for her school (a requirement) and sent off the documents to Lena.  Of course, like most Russians, she was very pessimistic that she would get her visa.  Me, being the naïve optimist, thought we couldn’t miss with this plan.  We were going to fulfill all of the requirement for such a visa and I just could not see how the Embassy could say “no.”

On the day of Lena’s interview, she dressed the part of a simple student.  No makeup or high heels for sure.  In her interview, Lena expressed her love for Russia and presented this as the opportunity of a lifetime.  She could go visit America and improve her English skills at the same time.  The one question the Embassy clerk asked her was “why America?”  Lena was sharp and honest in her answer.  She told the clerk that she had no burning desire to go to America and if this same opportunity had presented itself from say, England, then she would be at the British Embassy!  She went on to say that her parents were not rich, so she would have to accept the opportunity from wherever it came from. They issued the visa.

Lena left the Embassy and met with her friends in Moscow to celebrate!  She had brought a change of clothes and her makeup just in case!  When I was told the visa was issued I had a strange mix of pure joy and a sense of real concern.  Of course I loved her and wanted her to be with me, but how will Lena like America?  For sure our desire to be together was much stronger than any fears we had.

Things moved rather quickly from this point forward.  We were really just waiting for Lena to finish her current classes before she came.  I sent her some money to purchase luggage for her trip and booked her flight to Chicago.  I would go to Chicago and meet her there for the trip back to Detroit.

I can’t imagine the turmoil going through Lena’s family at this time.  Here their only child is about to embark on a trip to the other side of the world to be with a man they barely knew.  There were no promises of marriage just a lot of blind faith.  Even for a head strong woman like Lena it was a very gutsy move.  The plan was set for Lena’s arrival.

[Jet]

I can’t imagine the turmoil going through Lena’s family at this time.  Here their only child is about to embark on a trip to the other side of the world to be with a man they barely knew.  There were no promises of marriage just a lot of blind faith.  Even for a head strong woman like Lena it was a very gutsy move.  The plan was set for Lena’s arrival.

I think you've touched on a very important aspect of this endeavor that doesn't get nearly enough "airplay". For the many families where the daughter is the only child, this is a REALLY, REALLY big deal given the customs and culture of the FSU.

Very interesting read, all the way through, THANKS for taking the time!

[KenC]

I think you've touched on a very important aspect of this endeavor that doesn't get nearly enough "airplay". For the many families where the daughter is the only child, this is a REALLY, REALLY big deal given the customs and culture of the FSU.

Very interesting read, all the way through, THANKS for taking the time!

Thanks Jet.

Of course Lena's Dad and I had our "man talk" on my last trip when it hit him he might be losing his daughter to America, but Lena's Mom caught the concept much earlier.  She and I discussed it the first time we met at dinner at her house.  Lena's Mom pretty much told me that it would break her heart to see Lena leave.  I told her that I understood as I felt similar feelings when my daughter moved away.  Lena's Mom corrected me by saying that it wasn't the same as I still had my son living with me.  Lena was all she had.  I had no witty comeback to that.

In a way, Lena's family has acted completely opposite of what is typically portrayed here.  Most of the stories I have read seem to indicate that the woman's family is thrilled by her finding a rich American and many parlay that into financial benefits for themselves.  (Generous gifts, money being sent home to aide in support etc)  Lena's parents never asked for such things nor do they expect them.  In fact they have been overly generous to Lena as well as me.  They even brought some very nice gifts for my adult children when they knew they would be at our home on one of their visits.

Of course the same cannot be said for Lena's extended family and even neighbors of her parents.  Many seem to think that Lena should bring them expensive gifts every time she visits home.  One of Lena's parents neighbors has been a total pain in the butt since Lena left.  They constantly ask to borrow money, food items and even gas for their car.  When the subject of repayment is brought up, they say "why? You have a rich son in law in America, we are just poor Russans."  It is sad really, because all the prosperity that Lena's parents have attained through their own hardwork and efforts is usually dismissed and others just think they are just getting big bucks from me.
KenC