I'm still not convinced! The official stats just don't make sense!

[Caperone]

Eduard: In term of ratio men/women, I wonder if it's possible to be worst than Fort McMoney. (Fort McMurray, AB)

I know the feeling. Usually, when a woman is single here, there's always a very good reason why even the most desperate guy usually dump her quickly.

[Eduard]

Eduard: In term of ratio men/women, I wonder if it's possible to be worst than Fort McMoney. (Fort McMurray, AB)

I know the feeling. Usually, when a woman is single here, there's always a very good reason why even the most desperate guy usually dump her quickly.

yes, and I think there are quite a few towns like that here in the US and Canada. I have a client who lives in a place where the only industries are farming, coal, oil and military. Most young women leave and there is a disproportionate number of single men there. IMO it's exactly the oposite in FSU.

[Lily]

lily, you can disagree with me all you want, respectfully or direspectfully  but trust me, where I live in Tampa bay there is an incredible shortage of single, good looking, intelligent, down to earth and family oriented women. You would have so many  choices that you might want to stay single and just date and have fun. 

I said it is proven fact..OK, perhaps in Tampa and in downtown Chicago, IL there are different types of men, and an abundance of very good looking women in latter place.

5 years ago, I spent about 16 months doing my studies and internships in Chicago. Every day I was strolling along downtown streets to get to my school, visiting libraries, once a week attenting various events, going shopping and sightseeing. No one even talked to me first unless I address people on some professionally related things. No business cards except for a few business reasons.

But well, if you assert that I could have success, I can believe you..but with big reservations. 

[Jet]

OK I *think* we've put the disparity to rest but I stumbled across an article on Bloomburg.com, which I thought you folks would enjoy, about Ivanovo region which states:

The Ivanovo region has the highest ratio of women to men in Russia, a legacy of the Soviet textile mills that imported female workers from across the country. The city, which once helped marriage bureaus recruit young women for foreign spouses, is now enticing residents to stay and raise families.
Ivanovo achieved the turnaround by making the most of its biggest asset: women. According to Russian government statistics, 56 percent of the city's 432,000 people are women.

[Eduard]

I said it is proven fact..OK, perhaps in Tampa and in downtown Chicago, IL there are different types of men, and an abundance of very good looking women in latter place.

5 years ago, I spent about 16 months doing my studies and internships in Chicago. Every day I was strolling along downtown streets to get to my school, visiting libraries, once a week attenting various events, going shopping and sightseeing. No one even talked to me first unless I address people on some professionally related things. No business cards except for a few business reasons.

But well, if you assert that I could have success, I can believe you..but with big reservations. 

Lilchik, come to Sarasota, Florida...you will see a huge difference! Go to Books a Million (a book store chain), Applebees, almost anywhere even the beach, and you will see many men on the prowl for women.  Trust me, it's that bad for single guys here! I lived it for 2 years.
Now Chicago is a very different place. There are a lot more good looking single women in the midwest. I actuall know a guy who lived in Sarasota, FL 33 year old tennis pro, good looking, financially secure and...very frustrated of the dating scene here. He finally decided to move back to Michigan  where he was originally from, a year later he was married to a beautiful midwestern girl. So you need to try a different city. If you come this way I could probably introduce you to a couple of guys. Or you can place a local ad here and will have 500 men write you in the first day. Trust me, I've been through this myself. I put my pic on my profile. Now I'm no Brad Pitt, but I'm not the ugliest looking guy either. Plus i was about 15 kilos lighter before I had my baby yet my dating life for 2 years here was similar to a catholic priest's dating life...If I met a girl like you here locally in those days I would snatch you up and do everything possible to keep you!

[Lily]

I put my pic on my profile. Now I'm no Brad Pitt, but I'm not the ugliest looking guy either. Plus i was about 15 kilos lighter before I had my baby yet my dating life for 2 years here was similar to a catholic priest's dating life...If I met a girl like you here locally in those days I would snatch you up and do everything possible to keep you!

Well done putting your photo here, of course I noticed, and I spent quite a time looking at it. Now I am probably being late for my job that I recently took up    You are not Brad Pitt, you are ways better than him!! You shouldn't lose a single pound!

[Eduard]

Well done putting your photo here, of course I noticed, and I spent quite a time looking at it. Now I am probably being late for my job that I recently took up    You are not Brad Pitt, you are ways better than him!! You shouldn't lose a single pound!

Oy Lilchik! you are so sweet for saying that!!!
But I do need to lose at least 15 kilos and start working out every day again, like I used to. Happy family life tends to make me relax in that department...and since my work is mostly in front of the computer...it's not very good for my weight...
You do prove my point with you sweet post though! When I go to Russia I can see women looking at me with interest, flirting with me and getting dates there was not a problem ever for me. Somehow Russian women like my looks. Here in Florida it's another story...
How is it possible that for 2 years here in the US I couldn't get a date with one girl that I really liked and got dates with just about 5 that I just settled for and they didn't go anywhere? The only one woman that I met and was physically attracted to during those 2 lonely years, was from FSU, and she lived in New York. But after a couple of dates with her I realised that she wasn't for me. She was interested, and called me 2-3 times after I left NY and came back to FL, but at the age of 43 I knew what I wanted in a life partner and wasn't going to compromise on some things. Probably if I was living in New York, Chicago or any other big metropolitan or midwestern area I wouldn have had a different dating experience. But I just love the lifestyle where I live and don't want to go back to big city living...
But in terms of dating the area where i live is Sahara desert for a single guy in his early 40s.

[groovlstk]

A man who is 40 years plus can marry a very good women if he has a lot of money or takes advantage of a poorer society.

Hmmm... in the past you've advocated for men who buy expensive apartments in Kiev for their girlfriends, among other laughable stuff. Easy come, easy go, I guess... But I'd bet I know more about what goes on in those apartments during the times their boyfriends are back in the States than their BFs do, and it ain't bridge parties 

[Misha]

A man who is 40 years plus can marry a very good women if he has a lot of money or takes advantage of a poorer society.  The reason AM over 40 years old swarm to Russia from 1997-2005.  Since 2005 the age gap has decreased a lot since younger women do not want a huge age gap as Russia economy has improved.

Well, a man can offer more than money: character, charm, intelligence, kindness, personality, looks, patience, and many other things which are not financial. I managed to find a wonderful, very attractive woman who was ten years younger than I, spending close to nothing.

[Eduard]

This is an interesting post on a Russian forum where someone calculates that there are 30 million more women than men in Russia and gives the reason why. It's in Russian, but there are so many Russian "experts" here that I'm sure they can understand what it says. I don't want to translate this just to be accused of being a liar by some a$$ so you can read it in it's original form: http://tinyurl.com/492hvy

[Eduard]

I'm sorry Dan, but I think your Russian Government statistic can not be accurate. I realise that you are just quoting the numbers that you see on line, but let's face it can you really trust the Russian Government to give you the real deal? I personally never did trust it and probably never will...They have a huge demographic problem in Russia, which could bring the country down in the next 25-30 years if something is not done to correct the problem. So the last thing they want is for tens of thousands RW to be leaving the country by marrying WM. IMO that's a good enough reason to make women believe that they all have a good shot at finding a soulmate in Russia and have a family.
The preception on the streets of Russia is quite different and totally supports my initial statement that there are many more available women there than men.
You will probably find this letter  to my client from a 25 y.o. RW from Nizhniy Novgorod very interesting...

Танечка сегодня 11:36
 Привет *******!
Жаль, что ты вообще не знаешь русский.
Я никогда не изучала английский, в школе и в университете у меня был немецкий.))Я, конечно, знаю несколько слов по-английски, так как телевидение наше кишит вашими фильмами и песнями, то волей-неволей что-то запоминается. У нас показывают очень много американских фильмов. А у вас русские показывают? Если честно, я не очень люблю ваши фильмы, многие из них слишком пошлые и приземленные. Но есть, конечно , и хорошие. Например "Перл Харбор","Титаник","Эффект бабочки","Послезавтра"... Мне очень нравятся ваши мультфильмы"Ледниковый период" и"Шрек".Вообще, очень интересно пообщаться с тобой даже только потому, что ты представитель абсолютно другой культуры. У вас абсолютно другая жизнь. Мне нравится, что ваши люди всегда очень приветливы. У нас стало много злых людей почему-то.И еще на счет мужчин. В России мужчин в два раза меньше, чем женщин, поэтому выбор у них очень большой. В последнее время наши мужчины стали деградировать. Все заботы о семье многие перекладывают на женские плечи. Это огорчает...И то что, например, женатый мужчина имеет любовницу, уже считается практически нормальным. Но ладно, не будем о грустном. У нас очень красивая природа. Густые, непроходимые леса.Мне очень нравится, что в России в полной мере выражены все времена года. Зимой у нас холодно и снежно, а летом жарко,зелено.В общем,здорово!!!Я помогаю родителям в деревне выращивать овощи. У нас есть настоящая русская баня!!! Я все умею делать по дому. Готовить , прибираться, стирать. За тебя наверное по дому все делает кто-то? Я небольшого роста 162см, вес 48.5кг. Сейчас учусь в автошколе. Расскажи еще что-нибудь о себе,жду!
Пока.


Hi ******!
It's too bad that you don't speak Russian at all. I never studied English. I took German both at school and at the University.)
Sure, I know a few English words since our TV is swarmed by your movies and your songs, so weather you want it or not you wind up remembering some things. They show a lot of American movies here. Do they show Russian movies in the US? To be honest I'm not too crazy about your movies, too many of them are vulgar and low. But off course there are some good ones as well. For example "Pearl harbor", "Titanic", "Butterfly Effect", "The Day after tomorrow"...I like your cartoon movies very much like "Ice Age", "Shreck".
Actually it's very interesting to chat with you even only because you represent a totally different culture. Your life is totally different. I like it that your people are always very pleasant. There is a lot more people here that are angry nowdays for some reason. And also in regard to men. There is only half as many men in Russia as women, so they have many choices. Lately our men have been going down hill. They are passing all the responsibilities for raising their families onto women. It is very upsetting...And it became pretty much accepted that a married man has a girlfriend on the side. Oh well, let's not talk about sad stuff. We have beautiful nature. Very dens, unpassable forests. I like it very much that all 4 seasons are well pronounced here in Russia. It is cold and snowy in the winter and in the summer it's hot and green, in other words really neat!!! I help my parents in the vilage to garden and raise vegitables. We have the real Russian Banya!!! (Sauna). I'm a good home maker and know how to cook, clean and do laundry. You probably have someone who does your housekeeping for you? I'm not tall 162cm and weigh 48.5 Kg.
I'm taking driving lessond now. Tell me more about yourself.
Write soon!
Bye

[groovlstk]

Eduard,

I'm weary of this silly statistics argument that refuses to go away. But I can understand this is a passionate subject for you and one you won't relinquish so easily.

That said, here is Exhibit A in why I'd never use a service like yours, and indeed why as I evolved during my search I completely abandoned marriage agencies and relied on my own means and judgment: You may have permission from your clients to post their personal emails on a discussion board to support a semantics argument that ran out of steam months ago, but would this young woman approve of your posting her private letter and photo? IMHO, I believe there are plenty of men who can benefit from your service, but how far are you willing to go to convince everyone you are correct? Do you realize that there is a point at which winning this argument can be more damaging to your reputation than losing it, considering the cost?

I suspect that if this woman came across your posting, she'd dump both you and your client, and be much better off for it.

[Simoni]

I don't know about the stats, but I do know this:

There are many more available women for marriage minded men in the FSU than in the USA.

I spend three months a year there.  I see it.

My wife is from there.  She tells me it's a fact.  All of her friends say the same thing.

So for someone to argue the ratio is one to one--  they need to pay a visit to the FSU and open their eyes.

Don't believe government stats-- Russian or US.  After all, those CIA stats are what got us into the never-ending war in the middle east.

Guys-- there are "two girls for every boy" as the song lyrics say (actually more) in the FSU.   

But just because the numbers are there does not mean you will be successful.  FSU girls are a culture apart from us, and it takes an understanding and patient man to find and keep one.

[Eduard]

Eduard,

I'm weary of this silly statistics argument that refuses to go away. But I can understand this is a passionate subject for you and one you won't relinquish so easily.

That said, here is Exhibit A in why I'd never use a service like yours, and indeed why as I evolved during my search I completely abandoned marriage agencies and relied on my own means and judgment: You may have permission from your clients to post their personal emails on a discussion board to support a semantics argument that ran out of steam months ago, but would this young woman approve of your posting her private letter and photo? IMHO, I believe there are plenty of men who can benefit from your service, but how far are you willing to go to convince everyone you are correct? Do you realize that there is a point at which winning this argument can be more damaging to your reputation than losing it, considering the cost?

I suspect that if this woman came across your posting, she'd dump both you and your client, and be much better off for it.

Obviously I had the permission to use the letter, after all it doesn't disclose any personal info and is pretty generic, but it demonstrates my point very well. I will agree with you about the photo, I will remove it. I posted the photo because I wanted people to see that this is not an unatractive and not even an average looking girl but a very beautiful one and very nice and down to earth at the same time, who is not supposed to have problems finding men!!!
This thread is not about me attracting clients, it's about finding out the truth. When I stated my opinion that there were more women than men available in FSU I was viciously attacked and called everything from "car salesman" to a "liar" ! Thank God I wasn't called a "lawer"..then I'd really be upset
I was genuinely shocked when the 1:1 government statistic was posted. The feeling was like if someone presents you with 2x2=5
When something doesn't make sense to me, yes I keep thinking about it and try to figure out why. I think I did figure it out and anyone who either lives in the FSU or spends considerable amount of time there will take my side on this issue. Yes it's a big ego boost for many of us to think that "there is a man for every woman in Russia, yet I'm so cool, so wise and so brave that I managed to get me a hottie who is 15-20 years younger than me has 2 degrees and beautiful!" But IMO the reality is different. It's a simple rule of supply and demand. When you are faced with a prospect of being alone or expand your criteria greatly, most will expand their criteria, widening age parameters, looks parameters, country where your mate is from parameters, etc. etc. Hey, I'm not trying to put anyone down! I myself married a 24 y.o. when I was 44. I fell for her, she fell for me and that's that. But it probably wouldn't have worked out that way if the stats were 1:1. Not only I would have had a fierce competition from younger, more attractive local guys (like we have here in the US) but also the fact that my wife would have to move to the US would be a huge stumbling block. My wife would have never left Russia, her culture, her family, friends and career behind and I'm sure would have picked a local guy if they were available. IMO this is the true reality of things.

[Misha]

My wife would have never left Russia, her culture, her family, friends and career behind and I'm sure would have picked a local guy if they were available. IMO this is the true reality of things.

Pretty much my experience. My wife is gorgeous. If she had found a decent guy in Russia, she would certainly have married him and save herself a lot of trouble. As noted, she had a marriage proposal from a guy in Germany, but she did not love him or respect him (not the brightest bulb on the porch from what she says), so she turned him down. She did not want to marry just any guy, but she was not meeting any guys that came close to what she wanted.

[Admin]

I'm sorry Dan, but I think your Russian Government statistic can not be accurate. I realise that you are just quoting the numbers that you see on line, but let's face it can you really trust the Russian Government to give you the real deal? I personally never did trust it and probably never will...They have a huge demographic problem in Russia, which could bring the country down in the next 25-30 years if something is not done to correct the problem. So the last thing they want is for tens of thousands RW to be leaving the country by marrying WM. IMO that's a good enough reason to make women believe that they all have a good shot at finding a soulmate in Russia and have a family.
The preception on the streets of Russia is quite different and totally supports my initial statement that there are many more available women there than men.
You will probably find this letter  to my client from a 25 y.o. RW from Nizhniy Novgorod very interesting...

Танечка сегодня 11:36
 Привет *******!
Жаль, что ты вообще не знаешь русский.
Я никогда не изучала английский, в школе и в университете у меня был немецкий.))Я, конечно, знаю несколько слов по-английски, так как телевидение наше кишит вашими фильмами и песнями, то волей-неволей что-то запоминается. У нас показывают очень много американских фильмов. А у вас русские показывают? Если честно, я не очень люблю ваши фильмы, многие из них слишком пошлые и приземленные. Но есть, конечно , и хорошие. Например "Перл Харбор","Титаник","Эффект бабочки","Послезавтра"... Мне очень нравятся ваши мультфильмы"Ледниковый период" и"Шрек".Вообще, очень интересно пообщаться с тобой даже только потому, что ты представитель абсолютно другой культуры. У вас абсолютно другая жизнь. Мне нравится, что ваши люди всегда очень приветливы. У нас стало много злых людей почему-то.И еще на счет мужчин. В России мужчин в два раза меньше, чем женщин, поэтому выбор у них очень большой. В последнее время наши мужчины стали деградировать. Все заботы о семье многие перекладывают на женские плечи. Это огорчает...И то что, например, женатый мужчина имеет любовницу, уже считается практически нормальным. Но ладно, не будем о грустном. У нас очень красивая природа. Густые, непроходимые леса.Мне очень нравится, что в России в полной мере выражены все времена года. Зимой у нас холодно и снежно, а летом жарко,зелено.В общем,здорово!!!Я помогаю родителям в деревне выращивать овощи. У нас есть настоящая русская баня!!! Я все умею делать по дому. Готовить , прибираться, стирать. За тебя наверное по дому все делает кто-то? Я небольшого роста 162см, вес 48.5кг. Сейчас учусь в автошколе. Расскажи еще что-нибудь о себе,жду!
Пока.


Hi ******!
It's too bad that you don't speak Russian at all. I never studied English. I took German both at school and at the University.)
Sure, I know a few English words since our TV is swarmed by your movies and your songs, so weather you want it or not you wind up remembering some things. They show a lot of American movies here. Do they show Russian movies in the US? To be honest I'm not too crazy about your movies, too many of them are vulgar and low. But off course there are some good ones as well. For example "Pearl harbor", "Titanic", "Butterfly Effect", "The Day after tomorrow"...I like your cartoon movies very much like "Ice Age", "Shreck".
Actually it's very interesting to chat with you even only because you represent a totally different culture. Your life is totally different. I like it that your people are always very pleasant. There is a lot more people here that are angry nowdays for some reason. And also in regard to men. There is only half as many men in Russia as women, so they have many choices. Lately our men have been going down hill. They are passing all the responsibilities for raising their families onto women. It is very upsetting...And it became pretty much accepted that a married man has a girlfriend on the side. Oh well, let's not talk about sad stuff. We have beautiful nature. Very dens, unpassable forests. I like it very much that all 4 seasons are well pronounced here in Russia. It is cold and snowy in the winter and in the summer it's hot and green, in other words really neat!!! I help my parents in the vilage to garden and raise vegitables. We have the real Russian Banya!!! (Sauna). I'm a good home maker and know how to cook, clean and do laundry. You probably have someone who does your housekeeping for you? I'm not tall 162cm and weigh 48.5 Kg.
I'm taking driving lessond now. Tell me more about yourself.
Write soon!
Bye

Eduard,

I do not read every message at RWD any longer. It is far too active for me to do so. You open your contrarian post directed at me. Do you *really* think they are **MY** "Russian Government statistic" [sic] ?!? Opening a post in that matter is a weak attempt to elicit a response - and not in a positive manner.

Some of the nastiest arguments ever seen at RWD (or PL previously) were because someone was spouting information known to be untrue, and someone else did not want to allow that tripe to be spilled unfettered onto the site.

FACTS:

* There are several reliable statistics (NOT a single source), that describe the male/female ratio in Russian and the FSU as, essentially, 1:1.
* RW, some of them at least, would feel an incentive to characterize conditions differently than the facts. You are the one who claims special intuitive skills - certainly you can surmise as to the source of their incentive.
* You, quite clearly, have an incentive to characterize conditions differently than the factual statistics we have seen, time and time again.

Ed, you are probably going to snare the occasional customer from RWD (I've heard you have been bragging about it), and that is not surprising. We have a lot of traffic here and there are people who are going to buy-in to your misrepresentation of the situation there. That may be OK - or it may not. If those people who *do* buy-in, end up making decisions based upon your representations of a situation that we know to be untrue, it is THEY who are taking the risk of enduring the consequences. I cannot, in clear conscience, allow your posts - that obviously misrepresent the facts, and are equally obvious to be in your self-interest - to go unresponded.

In the future, if you want to make a post that gets my attention - feel free to make the post and then send me a link in a PM. That will insure I am aware of it, and increases likelihood I will respond.

- Dan

PS

IMO this is the true reality of things.

You *are* aware of how ridiculous that sounds - right?

[Eduard]

FACTS:

* There are several reliable statistics (NOT a single source), that describe the male/female ratio in Russian and the FSU as, essentially, 1:1.
In the future, if you want to make a post that gets my attention - feel free to make the post and then send me a link in a PM. That will insure I am aware of it, and increases likelihood I will respond.

- Dan

PS

You *are* aware of how ridiculous that sounds - right?

Dan,
I'm sad that you won't move from your position, not even a bit and keep accusing me of purposful misrepresentation of facts. It is very naive to take Russian government stats as a word of God. I already explained why i think there is a good reason for them to distort facts, you chose to ignore that explanation.
What you present here as FACT could be nothing more than the beauro of statistics cooking numbers because of Putin's orders. We've seen the government here in the USA distort facts on occasion. Simoni mentioned the whole Middle East war was started because of what you would consider FACTS that we now know weren't true at all.
You wrote: "If those people who *do* buy-in, end up making decisions based upon your representations of a situation that we know to be untrue"
Dan, who is "WE" in this case? Gabaub posted in this thread in support of what I say. Simoni posted on this thread in support of what I say, so who is "WE"?
You also insist that I have something to gain by "misrepresenting statistical data"
Honestly I don't see what do i have to gain by that!?!?! WM know with or without my input that they can find a beautiful woman in the FSU to marry, don't they? Weather you are right and it's 1:1 and the only reason they will get that beauty is because they are so awsome and superior to a RM, or I am right and it is simply a supply and demand issue, does it really matter? What difference does it make if a man is already looking for a RW? Now if I was trying to convert someone who is looking for a local woman to look for a RW instead, then at least you would have a reasonable basis to suspect that I am misrepresenting something for personal gain. But if these men are already looking for a RW and know that it is realistic to find one what difference does it make weather your numbers are right or mine (alone with many others)? I think your accusations are totally baseless and frankly sound pretty ridiculous.

[Admin]

Dan,
I'm sad that you won't move from your position, not even a bit and keep accusing me of purposful misrepresentation of facts. It is very naive to take Russian government stats as a word of God. I already explained why i think there is a good reason for them to distort facts, you chose to ignore that explanation.
What you present here as FACT could be nothing more than the beauro of statistics cooking numbers because of Putin's orders. We've seen the government here in the USA distort facts on occasion. Simoni mentioned the whole Middle East war was started because of what you would consider FACTS that we now know weren't true at all.
You wrote: "If those people who *do* buy-in, end up making decisions based upon your representations of a situation that we know to be untrue"
Dan, who is "WE" in this case? Gabaub posted in this thread in support of what I say. Simoni posted on this thread in support of what I say, so who is "WE"?
You also insist that I have something to gain by "misrepresenting statistical data"
Honestly I don't see what do i have to gain by that!?!?! WM know with or without my input that they can find a beautiful woman in the FSU to marry, don't they? Weather you are right and it's 1:1 and the only reason they will get that beauty is because they are so awsome and superior to a RM, or I am right and it is simply a supply and demand issue, does it really matter? What difference does it make if a man is already looking for a RW? Now if I was trying to convert someone who is looking for a local woman to look for a RW instead, then at least you would have a reasonable basis to suspect that I am misrepresenting something for personal gain. But if these men are already looking for a RW and know that it is realistic to find one what difference does it make weather your numbers are right or mine (alone with many others)? I think your accusations are totally baseless and frankly sound pretty ridiculous.

OK. I see you are feeling frisky and want to 'play.'

OTOH, I am not interested in engaging you in this silly crap.

Facts are facts - including:

* I did not initiate this most recent exchange - you did.
* Anyone wishing to see the genesis of this crap can find it easily enough.
* You unequivocally have motivation to perpetuate the fantasy crap you are spewing.
* You have some incentive to continue to see your posts on the board.

Ed, you can rail away all you like, but the facts are the facts - and BTW, they also pass the common sense test - something your 8 to 1 ratio of women to men failed to do by miles.

Now give it a rest.

- Dan

[Misha]

Well, the point that Eduard is making (and I agree with his point) is that the number of men is pretty much equal to the number of women in Russia (until you hit the older age groups). However, the number of eligible men that Russian women actually want to date and/or marry is usually a lot less than the total number of men. This is due to a number of factors including alcoholism, drug use, violence, incarceration (Russia has one of the worlds highest incarceration rates), and local/regional demographic imbalances from one part of Russia to another. This is something that Russian women themselves complain about. If a woman were willing to accept just any man, then every Russian woman could easily find a husband in Russia. However, not all Russian women are willing to accept any Russian man. If my wife had wanted to marry an underemployed alcoholic or drug addict, for example, she could easily have found a few dozen candidates. However, she set certain standards and had a challenging time finding men locally who measured up to her standards.

[Admin]

Well, the point that Eduard is making (and I agree with his point) is that the number of men is pretty much equal to the number of women in Russia (until you hit the older age groups). However, the number of eligible men that Russian women actually want to date and/or marry is usually a lot less than the total number of men. This is due to a number of factors including alcoholism, drug use, violence, incarceration (Russia has one of the worlds highest incarceration rates), and local/regional demographic imbalances from one part of Russia to another. This is something that Russian women themselves complain about. If a woman were willing to accept just any man, then every Russian woman could easily find a husband in Russia. However, not all Russian women are willing to accept any Russian man. If my wife had wanted to marry an underemployed alcoholic or drug addict, for example, she could easily have found a few dozen candidates. However, she set certain standards and had a challenging time finding men locally who measured up to her standards.

>>point that Eduard is making (and I agree with his point) is that the number of men is pretty much equal to the number of women in Russia<<

Hmmm, OK. If you say so. I managed to miss it if, indeed, that was the point Eduard was trying to make.

OK. Time to address a few more facts:

* Incarceration. Which country, Russia or America, has the higher incarceration rate?
* Drug Abuse. Which country, Russia or America, has the higher incidence rate of drug abuse?

- Dan

[Misha]

>>point that Eduard is making (and I agree with his point) is that the number of men is pretty much equal to the number of women in Russia<<

Hmmm, OK. If you say so. I managed to miss it if, indeed, that was the point Eduard was trying to make.

OK. Time to address a few more facts:

* Incarceration. Which country, Russia or America, has the higher incarceration rate?
* Drug Abuse. Which country, Russia or America, has the higher incidence rate of drug abuse?

- Dan

Well, the United States and Russia are pretty much in competition for the number one spot and the United States is leading for the time being. However, the incarceration rates in the United States varies quite a bit by region and race is an important factor in the United States. According to scholars at Stanford: "For example, about a third of black male high school dropouts aged 22 to 30 years were in prison or jail in 2000. In contrast, only 3.3 percent of white male dropouts the same age were behind bars." Incarceration is not spread evenly across all segments of American society.

[Simoni]

The reality to many FSU women is that there are more available women than men in the marrying ages of 21-35 in the FSU.

That is my opinion, too, after living there the last three summers.  It's Marina's opinion after living there 30 years.  It is also the opinion of ALL of Marina's girlfriends.

The problem here, as I see it, is that some of us are comparing peaches to peaches while others are comparing apples to oranges.

So let me move the question to one that is of more clarity in terms of what this board is all about-- helping men in their quest for an FSU woman.  The question is....

Does this purported ratio of one-to-one between men and women, ages 21 to 35 who are interested in a western man, mean that the man is facing one-to-one numbers in the quest?

The answer is NO.

He will find something like four girls for every guy.  That's because fsu women BELIEVE in these numbers and are eager to marry, thinking that there are not enough men to go around.  

Peaches to peaches.  The girls believe this, so it is reality to them.  Stats don't matter.  Their belief is their reality.  And that puts western men in an advantageous position.

Thus, they are not looking at one-to-one.

[Admin]

The reality is that there are more available women than men in the marrying ages of 21-35 in the FSU.

That is my opinion after living there the last three summers.  It's Marina's opinion after living there 30 years.  It is also the opinion of ALL of Marina's girlfriends.

The problem here, as I see it, is that some of us are comparing peaches to peaches while others are comparing apples to oranges.

So let me move the question to one that is of more clarity in terms of what this board is all about-- helping men in their quest for an FSU woman.  The question is....

Does this purported ratio of one-to-one between men and women, ages 21 to 35 who are interested in a western man, mean that the man is facing one-to-one numbers in the quest?

The answer is NO.

He will find something like four girls for every guy.  That's because fsu women BELIEVE in these numbers and are eager to marry, thinking that there are not enough men to go around. 

Peaches to peaches.  The girls believe this, so it is reality to them.  Stats don't matter.  Their belief is their reality.  And that puts western men in an advantageous position.

Thus, they are not looking at one-to-one.

Simoni,

"opinion" is not "reality".

>>He will find something like four girls for every guy<<

I won't bother with getting pulled into this tripe - but I *will* repeat that there is no objective substantiation for your claim. None, nada, zilch.

>>Stats don't matter<<

If you say so. They matter to me. Not that they are the final indicator or that I follow them to base my decisions - but they are critically important to me in managing the risks of an endeavor - and there is no question that this endeavor has its share of risks, and woe to those who would choose to ignore the indicators, and stats, available to them.

- Dan

[Admin]

Well, the United States and Russia are pretty much in competition for the number one spot and the United States is leading for the time being. However, the incarceration rates in the United States varies quite a bit by region and race is an important factor in the United States. According to scholars at Stanford: "For example, about a third of black male high school dropouts aged 22 to 30 years were in prison or jail in 2000. In contrast, only 3.3 percent of white male dropouts the same age were behind bars." Incarceration is not spread evenly across all segments of American society.

Re: Incarceration. In actuality, there is no comparison. America's rate of more than 700 prisoners for every 100,000 persons is substantially higher than Russia's 500+. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration

Re: Drug Abuse. Incidence rates between the two countries look as if they are roughly equivalent. If true, then it holds to reason that one country would not enjoy an advantage over the other, in this regard anyway.

Soooo . . . if the argument is that RW have problems finding mates in Russia because there are too many drug-abusing criminals - guess what? The odds are NOT better, and in fact, are a bit worse, right here in the good 'ol USA.

- Dan

[Simoni]

Simoni,

"opinion" is not "reality".

Looks like you missed what I was saying in my post.

When FSU girls have the opinion that there are too few men to go around, they are eager to find their man.  This opinion they hold changes the numbers, resulting in more girls seeking men than men seeking girls.

Wish you could see this.