Assumptions We Make

[ronin308]

I just came back to the US from a trip to/through Amsterdam, Ukraine and Turkey.  Guess which country had the worst and most intrusive entry process for foreigners.

Yup the good old land of the free and home of the brave.  While certain countries are allowed visa free entry, you still get to have the fun of being fingerprinted and photographed before being allowed into the country and then don't forget when you leave you have to checkout of our lovely country or we won't let you back in. 

As to maturity, it depends on what you're looking at and the person involved.  I would say that in terms of life goals etc, they do seem to be a tiny bit more mature.  As to the sex and party life, the proproption of the loose ones at the discos seemed to be about the same as the US.

I think the posts here are pretty much right on.  The girl I just spent 10 days with in Turkey, didn't speak English during my first visit 2 months ago.  In 2 months she spent the time to learn English well enough to hold basic conversations.  In 1 day with her I was able to learn more than over 5 days with a translator.  Jack's idea of finding someone who you want to spend the minor investment of english lessons on is a great idea, if you find her intriguing enough to pursue her. 

[BC]

Welcome back Ronin. Good to see you here again.

I think living conditions/style may have a lot to do with it. Being 'mature' in FSU and being 'mature' in the western candy store environment is quite different.

People also adjust to the area they live.. If I lived in the deep south I would probably develop a southern accent after a while..

[Bruno]

[user=307]ronin308[/user] wrote:

I just came back to the US from a trip to/through Amsterdam, Ukraine and Turkey.  Guess which country had the worst and most intrusive entry process for foreigners.

I Guess for ... USA ... yep, good post... it show that woman without basic knowledge of English are always good potential for marriage... and two month for learn basic english is enough fast... she will certainly please you

 

[ConnerVT]

[user=307]ronin308[/user] wrote:

Guess which country had the worst and most intrusive entry process for foreigners.

You just picked the wrong POE.  Now, there are many places along our southern boarder that wouldn't have been any bother at all.  Just be sure to bring a water bottle with you, it's hot down there...

[Michelangelo]

[user=307]ronin308[/user] wrote:

I just came back to the US from a trip to/through Amsterdam, Ukraine and Turkey.  Guess which country had the worst and most intrusive entry process for foreigners?

Been there, done that. No question-- Ukraine.  Turkey and Neatherland takes 3 minutes without problems...  Ukraine varies...

But if your were from a country other than the US going into the three you visited--watch out!

Then you would see the USA procedures are typical.

I'm glad for this...at least make them sneak into the USA and not just let anyone who hates us fly in!

[andrewfi]

Michael, Errm no...

Without a doubt, of the dozens of countries I have visited, as a non-American, without a doubt, the most intrusive, longwinded and impolite immigration system was that in the US. I am sure things have not improved there since 2000, the year of my last visit...

[BC]

The most unusual customs request was when the official asked me to sign my name and compared it to that in the passport.  This was leaving Turkey and the photo was not that old...

[Michelangelo]

And then there was my "strip search" looking for money on my body as I left Ukraine last March...

[corncrowe]

And then there was my "strip search" looking for money on my body as I left Ukraine last March...

LOL -- when I left Kiev this May they asked how much money I had in Grivna (20 g), how much in Pound Sterling (0), how much Euro (80 cents), any antiquities??  Poor lady felt sorry for me and let me through the gate...

Of course it helps to look like a poor Ukrainian...Now how much plastic that's a different story...

Jon

[ronin308]

I've entered  Ukraine 4 times and you're right it isn't consistant but consistant enough that I no longer worry.  Exiting, well the last 2 times through Borispol I only had to talk to the passport person, no customs at all.

None of these countries however have a camera and fingerprint device at the passport control booth and require you have 2 different digits fingerprinted and a photo taken.  The only people exempt are US passport holders, otherwise whether it's a Brit or a Ukrainian or Nigerian you're all treated the same. 

 

[Jooky]

Yes. So many men search for the ideal woman, but I wonder if they are the ideal man for the woman they seek. The rest of the post is excellent. I agree with all of it. There are men who fit the above description, but they are in the minority.

[Son of Clyde]

I sincerely think that the man you describe is in the minority of all men seek a RW.  I think that this process attracts many men unfit to enable a lasting relationship with anything more than a window plant.  Guys with no relationship skills let alone any dating skills.  These guys usually get hooked into some visa shark and never know what hit them.  I have always maintained that if a man has reasonably good success in dating AW, then he will do fine in the fsu, but that the MOB agencies attract a lot of geeks, dorks and social outcasts.

KenC

 

I think you make a lot of assumptions and maybe some of the dorks and geeks can kick your royal a$$. Speak for yourself my friend. It is unfair to make blanket statements like these. Why are you on the attack lately? I will be back to you in 5 years when my marriage is considered a success story. Why is 5 years the mark anyway? Some of my relatives were married for over 50 years. 

[BC]

You feel addressed Clyde?

[Son of Clyde]

No, not really. I hate these general statements that guys make as if they are the only sucess stories.

A success story has to sometimes be made over time, not immediately. I make breakthroughs every day in my relationship and see a better relationship developing.

I will stand or fall on my own with a little advice here and there.

Yes, I am shy and my social skills need improving, but I have found someone who is not a scammer and needs to be taught the value of money. She was like many women who came here and saw that everyone has a car, real estate is high and there are many different job opportunities. She will also see the reality soon of how few jobs will be open to her and that not everyone can afford a $500,000.00 home and she will eventually get her Mazda but not necessarily a BMW.

[Son of Clyde]

I don't like it either when someone refers to others as geeks, dorks or social misfits and we never see what they are like. I think it is a general statement to inflate their own ego's. Sorry Ken but I think you have gone over the edge lately with me and a few others.

[BC]

Clyde,

Happy to hear you are making progress and recovering from the initial impressions your wife to be had about her new home. Foresight would have helped.

Having had the opportunity to observe quite a few RW seeking travellers to RU and Ukraine, overhearing their expectations on the way there and war stories on the way back I think Ken's remarks are not that unreasonable.. At times it was quite embarrasing and one of the few occasions that I wished my wife did not understand our language so well. Then again maybe it was good for her have this experience.

[KenC]

Clyde,

Are you so insecure that you take offense to my statement that was neither addressed to you or even in a thread that you were participating in?  A post that was made three weeks ago?  And threaten to kick my azz? LOL!  And then try to defend yourself?  Geez man, get a grip.  You are really losing it now.

My opinion, regardless if you think I have the right to one or not, is as I posted.  The MOB agencies do not attract the cream of the crop from America.  That is why it so easy for a man with decent social and dating skills to do so well.  I have met many men and couples from my participation in forums like this over the last 5 years.  The overwhelming majority of the men fall into the catagories I mentioned in my post.  Welcome to the club.  Why else would you take offense?

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

No Ken I don't make these statements myself and I don't very much like them in general. I have been reading this thread for a few days and I felt like giving my opinion. You post what you want.

I just think your posts in general are overly pompous at times, as if you are the sole success in marriage and parenting and we need to measure up to your standards.

[jb]

Clyde wrote:

we need to measure up to your standards.

I don't know KenC outside these boards so I don't have a clue about what his standards might be.  However, I don't have a problem with there being high standards for men in this game, after all, we men set very high standards for the ladies.  They must be pretty, slim, intelligent, mostly young, willing to give up everything they've ever known since childhood, learn an entirely new language, travel half way around the globe to a place where she'll be looked down upon, suffer slights and insults, and generally be regarded with suspicion because of her accent and lack of local cultural awareness.  

These are very high expectations, why shouldn't the women involved be allowed to set high standards themselves?  Of course there will be little agreement with me on this subject because the geeks, dorks, and misfits want to believe that that any man, regardless of his age, untidy appearance, low income and lifestyle, lack of social graces, etc., can just waltz into a MOB agency, plunk down his money and buy a model quality bride on the spot.  They belive all this tripe because it is explicitly inferred in the MOB agency hype published on virtually every website.

Maybe if there were better standards on both sides there would be no need for all those scam sites.

Just a thought.

[KenC]

Clyde,

If you expect me to apologize for being confident and proud of my great marriage and kids, it aint gonna happen.  I post about the length of my marriage and success of my children as a validation of my opinion.  Not that my opinion is correct, but at least it came from someone who has a bit of success on these two fronts.  The fact that my confidence and pride irks you, says more about you than me.

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

JB, I think the woman and man both must meet each other's standards.

This process is not easy with scammers on both sides. If a guy is less than perfect, the lady needs to decide if he is right for her. It is a far from perfect scenerio especially if the woman is looking for a meal ticket as some are. And sometimes the guys are looking for a glorified maid.

I think my lady is beautiful but far from perfect. I can learn to live with her faults and she has said she can live with mine. She says I am the only man for her. Maybe she will change her mind some day but I see her as honest and a decent person. She just needs to learn how to spend money and have some left over.

I have misinterpreted her mood swings as being my fault, or her being angry with me. It seems to be her adjusting to my less than perfect living conditions. I fixed up the apartment very nice but the landlord did nothing to make the exterior of the house presentable. I imagine if his daughter moves upstairs in October he may make the place look perfect before she moves in.

The apartment issue is a family situation that is far out of control. My priority is to find our own home within the next 6 months.

[Michelangelo]

First, any man going anywhere overseas for the explicit reason of finding a wife has a few rattling nuts and bolts upstairs...Dreamers, misfits, dominants, gamblers and pervs looking for an 'easy way' to fill the empty gaps in their lives.

[/quote]
I'll disagree with the "any man" part of your quote, BC.  Perhaps "most men" I might agree with, however.  On my last trip to Ukraine, the girls at the agency were laughing at the "clients" that came their way, and related the story of the old fat guy in a wheel chair who insisted on only seeing the 20 year old babes at the agency ))   Yes, an example of a "dreamer and misfit."

But there are other types that go the FSU route, too.  Maybe, like me, some men are bored of successful dating in America and are VERY attracted to a multi-cultural marriage and the excitment of traveling abroad and working through obsticles to achieve a goal--a smart, pretty foreign girl.

Others, like the 31 year old guy I met at a marriage, who was a millionaire to boot, went because his friends posted his profile and and dared him to go and meet some of the girls who wrote him!  I was lucky to be there with him--the most beautiful girls at the agency flocked to meet him!  And you know, one got lucky and has him...amazing, really.

So, no BC....not "any man going"   But yes, "most men going."

[Son of Clyde]

I give the old. fat guy credit for making the trip.

Should he be concentrating on old, fat women in wheelchairs as potential mates? Maybe he should be looking at 45 year old women and not 20 year old women.

I started this process because I saw the beauty of FSU women. If they are willing to meet a shy, middle aged, balding guy is there any harm in this?

Pretty soon this process will be a way of life for AM who are tired of the dating, bar scene. I have already met at least 5 couples who met and married and never even posted on these message boards. RW are becoming popular as well as the opportunity to visit the FSU.

[BC]

Maybe, like me, some men are bored of successful dating in America and are VERY attracted to a multi-cultural marriage and the excitment of traveling abroad and working through obsticles to achieve a goal--a smart, pretty foreign girl.

Michael,

Don't take this too critically, but how in the world can one get bored with successful dating?

Would anyone go to Kansas or any other point within the US to explicitly look for a wife to bring home?  Probably not.. so why even think about going to FSU, especially if it's the first time outside your national borders?

The answer is this simple:

Because of totally unsubstantiated bs hype geared directly at tickling male fancies and fantasies.

That's dreaming in my book.

Reminds me of the Peter Piper tale.. Peter is alive and well blowing horns here also.. selling dreams.

[Son of Clyde]

Why would a successful dater want to leave the US anyway? Successful seems to equate with happiness sometimes. Maybe there was a desire to date elsewhere. I was not happy with AW in general. My fear is that Iryna will become TOO Americanized over time.