Assumptions We Make

[Son of Clyde]

Yes, I knew you were referring to no one in particular. Many people can fit into the category in some way, so you can say some guys on the board may fit your criteria.

The insults I was referring to were the ones I posted today and deleted which you alluded to in a previous post.  And of course my PM of today.

[Bruce]

"And what is your take on a middle aged man that doesn't have a decent place to live? Or enough dishes? Kitchen utensils? Sheets? A/C?"


"Sounds like a typical RM to me! Now, that's making Mrs. Clyde feel right at home:cool:"

Racer X - I'm still laughing so hard from your post.  That post is a classic!

 

Clyde - Ken C is trying to help you and other guys right now who may be in the same boat.  I would not take it personally if I were you. 

When a guy is single for a very long time he often gets used to his routine, learns to do with less and sometimes gets to the point where his place becomes so far out of touch with what any woman would want in her home that he either thinks cave man living conditions are normal or knows something is wrong with his place but does not know where to start to improve it.  I know I was guilty of some of that and have been putting alot into my place before and since we were married.  Luckily, I spoke with my wife about things I wanted / needed to do with my house in Russia and we decided together before we were married when we discussed my place etc. that it would be best if I waited for her to get to the USA so we could decide together.  Tomorrow is a new heating system, ouch!  Little by little we are fixing up my house in a fashion that we both are comfortable with.  Pretty much I am comfortable with most things, so she is the limiting factor, which is fine with me.  

If a guy is that out of touch, providing he even recognizes it, thats where he has to call in his woman friends to redo his place.  If he has no real woman friends - or only knows the back woods type cave girls then there always can be a call in to the local "queer eyes for the straight guys."   I think those "gays" hit the Washington, DC area, don't they? 

Seriously, Clyde - you could use your wife's obvious concerns as a positive.  Tell her you were waiting for her to come to completely model your house how she would like it (provided she does not paint the walls or adorn your walls with hot pink colors).  I think you did this already by working with her to buy a house or find a new place for the two of plus new son to live etc.   I hope you make the right decision about your K-1.  I know it would be really difficult for me to get an instant family, put up with a teenager, a new dog (no wonder it took her so long to get through customs at JFK) and a new fiance whom you are having difficulties communicating with. 

Here is my best advice, that I sometimes forget myself............PATIENCE, PATIENCE AND PATIENCE!

Clyde, your open book is helping alot of guys like yourself.  Keep the details coming.  Your ability to tell it like it is and the feedback from all the board posters really does alot of your fellow countrymen a service.

[KenC]

Clyde,

Please stop letting your insecurities over ride your common sense.  The post I made here three weeks ago was not about you.  Do you think of yourself as a geek, dork or a social outcast? (As was originally in my post)  BTW, I looked up my first PM to you that you mentioned.  I was busting your chops about posting that you thought Doug Salem was attacking you when he was speaking in general terms.  So this isn't the first time you "assumed" the victim's role.

I only mentioned your "insults" as a way to prove to Turbo that you were not necessarily all that respectful or courtious as he thought.  I actually was not offended by what you said and was pleasantly suprised that you had the balls to do so. 

But let us get back to the topic of this thread which is "the assumptions we make".

KenC

[KenC]

Bruce,

Great post.  Thanks for "getting it".  As long as yoour gal doesn't start hanging rugs on the walls, you got the right idea.

It has been written here many times to "be a man" and the RW will respect you for it.  I take that to mean to be the head of the family.  In the case of remodeling or outfitting a home/apartment, I would think the budget would be the way the man should assert his "manhood".  Something like:

She: "I vant to buy $800 sheets"

He: "I know that having good sheets is important to you, but that is too much money to spend right now.  We can buy them after we get dishes, some new pots & pans for you and the A/C repaired.  Besides, we can always wait for them to go on sale."

KenC

[BC]

Strange that Ken is getting flack for his statement when mine:

Dreamers, misfits, dominants, gamblers and pervs looking for an 'easy way' to fill the empty gaps in their lives.

on page 2 of this thread (I think) didn't even cause a ruffled feather.

Just checked.. the hair on my butt is still there, not even singed.. guess will have to wax it myself.. LOL

There's absolutely no reason on earth to get upset about someone elses post.. If it happens to me I'll first look to myself and find out why.

[jb]

Besides, we can always wait for them to go on sale."

LOL, unfortunately the January White Sale won't be here before the 90 day K-1 expires.

I agree, Ken, I don't understand an above average income earner living in an apartment through middle age without acquiring decent furnishings and all the trappings of middle class.  I personally haven't lived in an apartment six months of my entire life, I've always lived in a house.  It's just the way I'm wired, I don't like neighbors that close.  I also like my hunting dog, and dogs and apartments don't usually go together.

I think Clyde's story is of value to the newbie, I don't know if it will go down in history as a success story yet, but it certainly should open some eyes in the future.

[Son of Clyde]

You must not forget it was 3 goosedown pillows, two goosedown comforters, 2 complete sets of sheets and the king sized blanket.

"Why the large blanket sweetie?"

"Because when we move to the bigger house and buy the new bedroom furniture we will need it."

[KenC]

Clyde,

Don't you think it is your responsibility to set the family's financial priorities?  These gals really have no sense of American economics at all when they arrive.  My wife Lena couldn't understand the difference between $1,000 or $10,000 or $100,000 when she arrived.  I certainly didn't let her spend $10K in order to learn.  You have to get across the idea that she isn't in Disney World and that you have a fixed budget.

I do know that it is your responsibilty to educate her on your family's economics.  Maybe a good thing to do is to make a pie chart with all your fixed expenses already cut into it.  (Easy visual for her benifit) Then estimate what amount you will spend on other expenses like food, entertainment and such.  How much you want to save towards your new house should also be in it.  Make it a joint effort but you must take the lead.

KenC

[Turboguy]

[user=21]KenC[/user] wrote:

She: "I vant to buy $800 sheets"

Damn Ken, you I never knew you could speak Russian so well.  You sound just exaclty like a New K-1 Fiancee.    Wow, I am impressed.

[KenC]

Turbo,

Oh yes, my Russian is very good.:cool:  What you don't want to hear is:"I veel keel you".  Fortunately, Lena was yelling at our new puppy at the time!:shock:  Needless to say the dog is great now!:D

KenC

[Turboguy]

Frankly, I have enjoyed Son of Clydes posts and appreciate that he let us into the details of his new relationship.  I am sure it was of special interest to me becase I will be following him down the aisles of "bed and bath", check bookin hand, by about 3 weeks.   I think anyone in the general embarking on a K-1 trip would learn from what he is experiencing and there may even be some relationships that make it because of clydes posts.

I have said it a million times but I think some of you guys can be a little too blunt and direct.  Sometimes I think rude and thoughless might be the more appropriate terms.  On the other had you do make some good points sometimes.   I have learnded from some of the things even though I did often did not like some of your methods and phrasology.   I think maybe your remarks were not aimed at anyone in particular but I think one of the hazards of saying things in a way that is not considerate is that people are going to take it as something against them.   I hope Clyde might re-consider his plan to leave here.  I think he is one of the more valuble members because of his openess in his posts.   When you are open like that you do leave yourself more vulnerable.   I think some of you should take that vulnerability into consideration when you get in your tough love kicks. 

[Photo Guy]

'The Assumptions JB Makes' ...I mean 'We make'.

jb wrote, back in the beginning:

It's some of the travelers I'm addressing here. While technically they arn't newbies, they are having a hard time of it. We start to see the danger signs when guys say things like; "I've been to the FSU X times and I've met Y number of women". This sends alarm bells ringing in my head. I ask myself, why,,, after, say 3-4 or 5 trips he was unable to find a nice woman? Then the search criteria starts to unfold, we learn he wants a woman with no kids, he wants her to be within very narrow age ranges, (mostly very young), he wants her to be stunningly beautiful, slightly built, a non-smoker, non-drinker, etc., and the lists goes on. In fact, he wants everything. If the search criteria were reversed, he himself would not pass the test of marriage material for the kind of woman he seeks.

In other words, he's being hypocritical.

I think the first thing a man should do before setting out on this road is to have a good long look at himself in the mirror and assess what he brings to the marriage table. What sort of woman is going to be sincerely attracted to him? I'm not going to turn this into an age related topic, but that is, of course, a consideration.

We see constantly mythology being sold as facts by the MOB agencies.

This all makes sense to me. jb, your opening statements are  valid, in my opinion. On the other hand it's easy to jump to conclusions about the status of a couple's relationship without having an inside first-hand view of it. We have all seen individuals treat their spouse in an offensive manner and yet the couple is okay with it. So we can't apply our own standards to other couples. For examnple, 'L' has been labeled a 'shop girl' as a 'red flag' and I don't really want to talk about that. I just want to make the point that  you can't force your standards onto other people. These are all grey areas, when we setup a criteria for making a selection. The criteria can't be judged very easily or accurately from the outside.

When you say some guys are hypocritical, that's one area of judgment criteria that I agree with. Maybe an overweight guy with a potbelly, from Waco, should not pursue a super-model from Moscow. That might be a scenario that will not succeed. But, there are always those exceptions -of the charismatic funny guy, connecting with the ultra-gorgeous intelligent woman who randomly happens to appreciate his humor or his kindness or whatever. Analyzing relationships from the outside often defies logic.

jb, you mentioned something about seeing lots of guys crashing and burning. Here at RWD, I haven't seen that much of that phenomenon. Would that be Stoichman, Anono, or Groovlstk? Who ever it is, maybe they just haven't found the right woman. Maybe they just haven't had the good fortune of a KenC. Have the crash and burners believed in the MOB myths? Let's ask them. Have the crash and burners required(hypocritical) a high level of perfection?

I view crashing and burning as part of the dating process, rather than a horrible thing to be completely avoided. Maybe you should explain what you mean by crash and burn. There's the disappointment that Bruno faced during his last trip. He got thru it and learned from it. On a completely different level, I sympathize with the guy who has been totally fooled by a particular scammer and spent himself into deep debt. Somewhere in the middle you have a guy who has been led astray by his own naivete and delusions about the MOB agency fantasies. IN many of those cases, they probably eventually learn to tell fact from fiction, and only get their egos bruised a little. Life is a learning process, right?

Since January, I have not witnessed the superiority of the write many, visit many strategy. Writing many makes sense, but visiting many doesn't always give better results. I'd say it's six of one, half a dozen of another, or for my foreign friends: 50/50.

Again, I applaud Clyde for making his life an open book. That takes a lot of guts. To me, it looks like he is making a lot of mistakes, but I am not there to hear her whispering meaningless foreign words in his ear. Maybe they have some sort of 'understanding' that works for them. We can see a lot, but not the whole picture. I would handle things differently, but each couple has their own way of dealing with things. For example, I could not handle a woman who does not 'like' our home, even if it might be too this or too that. It would drive me nuts. Everyone has his own emotional limits or limits of disharmony. There are couples that fight all the time and also make love all the time.

If KenC bothers Clyde, then Clyde should ignore him.

We cannot all assume the same thing about pursuing RW.
For example, half of us think RW ARE DIFFERENT from AW. Half of us do not think that's true. Half of us think it's okay to send her money for such and such. Half of us think you should never send money to a RW.  I'll think about this more and come up with more cases of disagreement about 'the basics'. Our assumptions are all different.

 

[KenC]

Photodude,

I think jb talks about crash & burns from the other forum.  It is only because this forum is too new to have a lot of history.  And I believe that "crash & burn" refers to more than just the dating/selection process.  It has more to do with gals coming over or about to come over rather than one that you just met.  You have to have some history with her to have a "crash & burn".

Now, I have a bone to pick with you, Mister.  When you wrote:

Maybe an overweight guy with a potbelly, from Waco, should not pursue a super-model from Moscow

I think it is OK as long as the guy is from San Diego.  Right?

KenC

[Photo Guy]

Maybe she thought you were a charismatic handsome devil ...with a potbelly.

Oh...the other forum, eh?  What is it? RWG? Never been there.
Maybe I'll check it out. I'll ask Dan if it's okay.

[KenC]

Photo,

Yeah, that's it! (And a bottle of vodka didn't hurt either!)

KenC

[BC]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

RWG? Never been there. Maybe I'll check it out. I'll ask Dan if it's okay.

Don't forget to carry your hall pass..

[ConnerVT]

I have said it a million times but I think some of you guys can be a little too blunt and direct.  Sometimes I think rude and thoughless might be the more appropriate terms.  On the other had you do make some good points sometimes.   I have learnded from some of the things even though I did often did not like some of your methods and phrasology. 

You think you know "blunt and direct'"?  Wait until you have spent a few month 24/7 with your RW.  Your definition will change, trust me...

[Turboguy]

Oh, I have been there belive me.   Let's see there was the day after she got turned down for the visa and she was in a rotten mood trying to decide if it was fate and she should forget about me or if she should blame herself for doing something wrong since I had told her it was a piece of cake.

We had gone to Gorky Park and were walking around.  I asked her how she liked Gorky park and she said.  "It is nice but I am here with you.  I would rather be here with my friends so I could have a good time."   I knew she did not mean it and was upset over the visa so it did not bother me.

Well, lets see there was this line. " Geet off me,  You are like an elephant.".   That one really did not bother me.    Probably because I was in a good mood.  That was  a little while after "you vant I shood kiss it?"

So, I am not going into this with blinders on.

 

[Photo Guy]

RWG? Never been there. Maybe I'll check it out. I'll ask Dan if it's okay.

Don't forget to carry your hall pass..
[/quote]
I'll assume you knew I was kidding. :P

[ConnerVT]

Oh, I have been there belive me.  

You're still in the "I can walk away from this" stage, even if you insist that you're fully commited.  After the "I do"s, there are times when it seems less endearing. 

[Turboguy]

No, No Conner.   That thought is not anywhere in my thought patterns.   I am at the I love her and will take her the way she is, the good, the bad, the known, the unknown.   I am there for her mentally and physically when she is in a wonderful and romantic mood or bothered by something and a real pain the the tail.   As far as I am concerned, she is my woman.   If she turns into the nastiest bit*h on the planet she will still be my woman.   If she cheats on me, she is gone.  If she decides she does not want me I will have a plane ticket for her anytime she wants.   Otherwise I am there through thick and thin.

[ConnerVT]

See?  I knew you would post that...

[KenC]

Conner,

I think Turbo has his ducks in a row.  He knows he is attempting a high risk adventure, but is also willing to accept the consequences too.  That is all you can ask from a guy who should be blinded by his love at this point.  At least I do not see him making rookie mistakes like lifetime bachelors do.  The bluntness and directness of a RW cannot be learned until you live with it 24/7 like you said.

KenC

[Turboguy]

Don't talk about ducks.    I am a little hungry and duck sounds good.

I don't think that thinking you are ready for dealing with something 24/7 is the same as dealing with it day after day after day, but I do think I am getting into this with my eyes wide open and as ready as anyone can be for what I am going to find.

I did manage to cope with being with someone for 22 years who rated me less important than the cat turds in the litter box.    When I first met my ex wife she was still in High School and talk about red flags.    I should have known how important I was to her when she went out with me with her hair in rollers so she would look nice for school the next day.  

I am well aware that Luda can be very moody and as hard headed as you can get.   I am aware that she likes to get her way and if you know she is wrong about something that I might as well just sit back and let her figure it out herself because I am wasting my time trying to tell her.  You are not going to tell her much of anything.   If you want to even try you need to just drop some hints and let her figure it out.   I am not geting into this thinking that I have some beautiful gal who is going to devote her life to my happiness.   If there is any life that is devoted to something it will be mine to getting her functioning and happy here.  I really expect to have my hands full and to have some times where it is going to be very difficult delaing with her.   I never saw someone with more fobias. 

On the plus side.   We really do have a lot in common.   We like a lot of the same things and enjoy about the same kind of life.   From the time I met her we just seemed right for each other.   Truthfully I think a lot of guys would have a hard time being in a relationship with her but the things that make me believe that do not bother me at all.    The ways we seem different do not seem to be that serious.   She likes pets and I like other peoples pets.   It is not critical for me so I can give in and not loose any sleep.  Truthfully to me that is trivial.   She is frugal.   I really would be surprised to see her wanting a lot of expensive things but if she does that is not that big a deal.   I do know how to say no and if she wants something out in left field she will have to get used to a little sacrifice.   Maybe when we get down to the every day thing I will be surprised but really I think we will have few problems to deal with but will be dealing with many issues but nothing that will really trouble us.  Whatever is ahead, I will start finding out in about 42 hours. 

 

[ConnerVT]

Conner,

I think Turbo has his ducks in a row.  He knows he is attempting a high risk adventure, but is also willing to accept the consequences too.  That is all you can ask from a guy who should be blinded by his love at this point.  At least I do not see him making rookie mistakes like lifetime bachelors do.  The bluntness and directness of a RW cannot be learned until you live with it 24/7 like you said.

If you will reread my previous two posts, you have repeated exactly what I said:

• RW have a direct and blunt manner;[/*]
  
• His perspective will change after marriage; and[/*]
  
• Because he is certain of how he feels, I knew he would insist that he's completely committed.[/*]