political wives?

[deccie]

she was never a patriot of her country

Jazzy, being a patriot of your country has little to do with being a benign follower of that country's government. Until Russians (and some Americans) realise that fact you will remain little more than sheep.

[KenC]

yes Sure but everybody knows that Anna politkovskaya was working for america who paid her and she was always writing pro american articles , she was never a patriot of her country

I agree with the bit that Russia should not return to old regime but am against being the slaves of America

Yes, Jazzy, you are right now, you have always been right and probably will always be right.  Thank you for sharing your wisdom here
 
KenC

[Ronnie]

Working for the US?  Anna was also harshly critical of President Bush and the war in Iraq. 

Not a Russian patriot? Certainly according to Putin (and apparently Jazzy) she wasn't.  She knew she would be killed by Putin...Just as Litvinenko knew.  Jazzy apparently feels Politkovskaya got what she deserved. 

(And Jazzy lectures others about free speech)

[Jazzyclassy]

Working for the US?  Anna was also harshly critical of President Bush and the war in Iraq. 

Not a Russian patriot? Certainly according to Putin (and apparently Jazzy) she wasn't.  She knew she would be killed by Putin...Just as Litvinenko knew.  Jazzy apparently feels Politkovskaya got what she deserved. 

(And Jazzy lectures others about free speech)

I never feel like that, that any person deserves death for this or that statement, who are you to know what I feel and think.

For you americans, living in your america  my statements and opinion are ignorant but did you ever ask any other russian women living in russian what do they think of this or that political issue, they will tell you approx the same what am telling you

you claim that I do not know anything about America, though you claim you know everything about Russia never lived there and never knew the language and the culture trully, except Kalinka Malinka and Putin you know nothing about Russia and Russians . You can not even learn russian language , what are we talking here about, have some respect for the person who is trying to talk with you on your own language, no that will never happen, you consider it a norm for other nations to know english like their own one... disgusting

I bet your russians wives or girlfriends never trully and honestly told you their opinion about this or that political matter,cos they are scared and just in order not to irritate your narrow minded, superiour  point of view.

Just only  listen to you  and from your conversation you can hear only :" America America God shed his Grace on thee and crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to shinging sea... and so on " It is great of course that you are patriotic and  instead of spreading the  disintagration into the societies of people of  the other coutries, you should promote patriotism and union of nations.

[deccie]

For you americans, living in your america  my statements and opinion are ignorant but did you ever ask any other russian women living in russian what do they think of this or that political issue, they will tell you approx the same what am telling you

I talk to my partner about politics frequently. Initially she does the typical "I'm proud of Russia" stance. However, when I press her on particular topics and detail it becomes obvious that is the public veneer on her real opinions. I don't lead her. If she needed to be led I doubt I would have been attracted to her in the first place.

Whether one person holds an opinion or 100 000 000 people hold an opinion does not make it a CORRECT or VALID opinion. That a whole group of people can be ignorant does not in and of itself excuse ignorance.

. You can not even learn russian language , what are we talking here about, have some respect for the person who is trying to talk with you on your own language, no that will never happen, you consider it a norm for other nations to know english like their own one... disgusting

  Jazzy, I certainly appreciate you writing English on this forum. I am and have always been linguistically challenged. I used to fail my foreign language subjects at school with alarming frequency. However, I am doing the expat lifestyle right now and in a place a lot of westerners would hesitate to come to at that. So I do feel that I am open to the lifestyles and views of others. Also, just because we appreciate your English does not mean we have to appreciate your opinions on these subjects - whether written in English or not.

I bet your russians wives or girlfriends never trully and honestly told you their opinion about this or that political matter,cos they are scared and just in order not to irritate your narrow minded, superiour  point of view.

It seems it is you who are being narrow minded when your opinions are being challenged. And it is difficult to hide being false to someone about an opinion if you hold an extensive discourse on the subject. Press for details and examples and the truth normally comes out.

Just only  listen to you  and from your conversation you can hear only :" America America God shed his Grace on thee and crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to shinging sea... and so on " It is great of course that you are patriotic and  instead of spreading the  disintagration into the societies of people of  the other coutries, you should promote patriotism and union of nations.

What is a nation except a group of people who choose to live together under a mutual set of rules and codes? If those people no longer wish to live together then nations will fall.  Look at a globe from 10 years ago Jazzy. Nations change. Borders change. Get used to real life.

[Gator]

Jazzy,

You should separate your feelings into two parts: 

-  One, how you feel about Russian people and the Russian culture. 

-  The other, how you feel about your government. 

You seem to defend your government blindly.  Perhaps you need to reconsider your upcoming move to a democratic, free speech, low corruption, rule of law country if you are so happy with your Russian government.

did you ever ask any other russian women living in russian what do they think of this or that political issue, they will tell you approx the same what am telling you

My fiancee has many good Russian friends.  She speaks fondly about them and will miss them.  The opposite of you, she will not miss her government, which she finds abysmal. 

[Jazzyclassy]

I am not defending the governement blindly , am defending Rodina and its people, maybe it sounded otherwise but it seems like so ridiculous to read posters here....

"I hate Russia , fuuu they have everything horrible corrupted and low class and so on ..... America -yeah that is the true heaven place  and society of equal rights and freedom of speech and freedom of choice" - for example some of you might say (Do you really believe America to be like that? If you live all rich and great and amazing that you can go and buy anything you want, that does not mean in American you do not have homeless people, abusive regimes and non equality!!!)

What the .... , I want to say why are you searching women in Russia if you constantly bashing everything Russian!

I am telling that you can not say that Russia is completely horrible place to live in, yes Gator, your fiancee will miss her friends , her family and moreover she will miss spiritual generosity and down to earth people who are able to be humans.

[mspanky]

 Yes jazzy,

 We are very proud to be Americans. What other country gives so much financial aid to the world? What other country gives ANYONE the opportunity to succeed beyond their wildest dream no matter what sex,color or to what class you were born?

  If you think the U.S. government  is  shady flash the light on your own. The corruption there makes George Bush and his cronies look like they are in kindergarden.

  In my neighborhood there is a large Russian community. I have spoken to many and not ONE would ever go back to Russia after they have lived here a few years. many were here illegally and took their chances to stay here. Though they miss family and friends, they understand the U.S. is not as corrupt as you may think and life is very good if you're willing to work and not max out credit cards you can't afford, buy homes you know you cannot pay the mortgage for, and take advantage of higher education.

[Jazzyclassy]

Nobody is trying to criticise America, you provoke to do that , by constantly  insulting Russia and Russian people

Every country has its  negative and positive bits , but when a person claims that certain country is the greatest that means it is a certain diagnosis.

Russian government is not the best, but for so many russians, no matter how they suffered from this or that regime , I believe in the deepest corner of their hearts they miss the whole russian spirit its generosity and forgiveness among simple people.

[Jazzyclassy]

sure mspanky I accept that

but I know the other russians which are distant relatives who were and are living near Boston and now they are in Moscow for sometime and they told so many negative things about America that they can not talk to people about what is interesting to them, they are limited in making friends as all of them are kinda soccer-Mcdonalds-party mentality people, at first they liked it living in America now they find it very narrow and just borring and they miss a lot russian way of thinking , though yes they do want to live somewhere else, but not in Russia , I do not know , cos they got used to those modern house facilities, but are they so important  for people so that they can sell everything just to be living in comfort?

[mspanky]

If you live all rich and great and amazing that you can go and buy anything you want, that does not mean in American you do not have homeless people, abusive regimes and non equality!!!)

 About the homeless. Many choose that route. many homeless people in America have mental issues. Refuse to take their medication and do not apply for financial help they are entitled to. The others who are able bodied and mentally stable have no shortage of jobs they can get. But are too lazy and most of their families are sick and tired of supporting their lazy asses. They would rather beg in the streets for money so they can buy their liquor or drugs.

 Also Jazzy, every gov has a bit of corruption as you cannot control what they do as there is good and evil everywhere. But the U.S. corruption as compared to many regimes around the world is pretty damned tame. Would anyone rather live under a regime like Sadam's regime where gov can freely kill anyone who dares oppose the regime or willing to expose it?


 As for your friends not being able to find anyone interesting or willing to listen to their interest, it depends on where they live. The U.S. has immigrants from all over and there is an immense population. Just yesterday I was speaking with a friend who is a writer. He had traveled all over the world,speaks several languages, has a great sense of humor and a graduate of an Ivy league University. There are many more like him around. Your friends were just unfortunate enough to live in an area where people were very close minded. Also if they were so desperate for the Russian soul, they didn't need to go all the way back to Russia for it since there are many very large Russian communities in the U.S.
 

[pitbull]

I came to the US three years ago - and in these three years the situation in the country has changed for the worse (from what I can observe). It doesn't take a professional politician or economist to see that the US is heading into a large crisis.
There are just several most severe problems:
-weakening dollar, mortgage crisis
-possible recession
-huge government debt - China will soon own the US, and it's hard to imagine what happens if the Chinese stop buying the US government debt or demand the pay back of existing one (Russia has practically paid off its national debt btw)
-sky-rocketing oil prices and dependence on foreign energy suplies
-illegal immigration
-broken health system
-nearly broken social Security system
-millions of baby boomers heading for retirement (consequently even higher taxes since we'll have to pay for their retirement)
-the fact that people in the US DON'T save any more - most live paycheck to paycheck, have credit card debt and don't save for retirement

Just watch the news...or read Time, the economist, and Wall Street Journal...All of them have very pessimistic news.

There is just one recent illustration of the current US situation. I enjoy watching 60 minutes every Sunday, and the one from two weeks ago had this report about Remote area Medical. This is a charity organization that launches voluntary "expeditions" of American doctors and nurses to places like Amazon river delta or Niger to give basic medical treatment to people there. Guess what? In the last three years they cannot do that because...they are stuck in the US! There are about 50 million UNinsured, and millions more UNDERinsured people in America, who cannot afford BASIC medical treatment. They showed such "weekend medical expedition" somewhere in the Midwest. I must say it was hearbreaking. Hundreds, later thousands of people drove from the area as far as 300 miles and spent the night at the gate of the temporary medical site. There was a woman who had cervical cancer three years ago and no follow up since, because she had to feed her three kids. A man who couldn't afford to go to the dentist to have his tooth pulled (could have easily died from infection), an old woman, legally blind, no glasses....etc. All common working people, not homeless or drug addicts..

I was shocked. This was unimaginable of in Russia even in the 90-ies. No matter how much you make you will always get at least basic medical care.

I am not just blindly defending Jazzy here. But from what I see and read about the US - it looks like you guys shouldn't let your wives surrender their Russian citizenship, it may come very handy in 20 years. Objectively, Russia (if treats its natural wealth wisely) will be much better off than America.

[Gator]

Pitbull wrote,

it looks like you guys shouldn't let your wives surrender their Russian citizenship, it may come very handy in 20 years.

Are you saying that if America does decline as you expect, and Russia does improve, it will still take 20 years before Russia passes us?  Maybe by that time we will have altereantive energy supplies, spelling desperate times for countries whose economy depends primarily on the price of oil.

Yes, America is facing some difficult decisions.  We have been here before.  I recall in the early 1980s how many people feared Japan would own America.




 

 

[Gator]

Jazzy wrote,

Gator, your fiancee will miss her friends , her family and moreover she will miss spiritual generosity and down to earth people who are able to be humans.

She has already met and befriended Americans who she considers generous, down to earth, and human, much like her.  Jazzy, England is very similar to America in many ways.  At least the differences with America are not huge as with Russia.  Seriously, do you really want to move to the UK?

P. S.  Your English grammar has improved very much from a year ago.

[Misha]

-huge government debt - China will soon own the US, and it's hard to imagine what happens if the Chinese stop buying the US government debt or demand the pay back of existing one (Russia has practically paid off its national debt btw)

-millions of baby boomers heading for retirement (consequently even higher taxes since we'll have to pay for their retirement)

-the fact that people in the US DON'T save any more - most live paycheck to paycheck, have credit card debt and don't save for retirement

Just watch the news...or read Time, the economist, and Wall Street Journal...All of them have very pessimistic news.

I was shocked. This was unimaginable of in Russia even in the 90-ies. No matter how much you make you will always get at least basic medical care.

I am not just blindly defending Jazzy here. But from what I see and read about the US - it looks like you guys shouldn't let your wives surrender their Russian citizenship, it may come very handy in 20 years. Objectively, Russia (if treats its natural wealth wisely) will be much better off than America.

I am the first who will point out that the United States is likely going to face a few difficult years and the recession may hurt quite a bit. This won't help Canada as the United States is our main customer when it comes to exports.

As for the Russian government having paid off its debt, that is technically true. However, government owned or controlled companies have racked up hundreds of billions of dollars of debt as part of their "renationalization" campaign. One way or another the Russian state will be on the hook for this debt.

As for retirees, Russia is in a terrible position. In the next decade, Russia risks having a 1:1 ratio between pensioners and workers. This would mean that for ever Russian active in the work force, there would be one pensioner that must be supported by their wages. This will be extremely difficult for Russia to deal with and may lead to a collapse of the pension system.

Russia is learning pretty quick when it comes to debt. Now, most Russians have some form of debt.

As for the basic medical care, it is getting more and more difficult to find. Try getting treated without giving gifts to the right people. It will be a challenge. The state also guarantees free medication to pensioners and others, but because they have not been paying the suppliers, these free prescription drugs are simply not available or in very short supply.

As for Russia treating its natural wealth wisely, if the past is to serve as an indicator for the future, I would not bet on it.

Simply put, the United States may face a tough recession, but I can't see Russia becoming an economic refuge any time soon.

   

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy wrote,
She has already met and befriended Americans who she considers generous, down to earth, and human, much like her.  Jazzy, England is very similar to America in many ways.  At least the differences with America are not huge as with Russia.  Seriously, do you really want to move to the UK?

P. S.  Your English grammar has improved very much from a year ago.

I want to move there because I love my husband and I understand that for him it will be much more difficult to live in Russia as he does not know russian language though he likes it here a lot ,but as a wife I had to make a choice and I do not care where to live as long as we are together

Maybe Uk is similar to the USA , but I noticed for myself that I find it hard  sometimes to communicate with american people than to english ones it is difficult for me, maybe there is my fault somewhere, I strongly hope this cordon in opinions and way of thinking will be more  so to say breakable than  it is at the minute

Also my husband never discharge the chance of us living in Moscow if he can find the work which pleases me greatly so we never say never about where to live in the future, we go with the flow

[WmGO]

yes Sure but everybody knows that Anna politkovskaya was working for america who paid her and she was always writing pro american articles , she was never a patriot of her country

I agree with the bit that Russia should not return to old regime but am against being the slaves of America

...my statements and opinion are ignorant but did you ever ask any other russian women living in russian what do they think of this or that political issue, they will tell you approx the same what am telling you

you... claim you know everything about Russia never lived there and never knew the language and the culture trully, except Kalinka Malinka and Putin you know nothing about Russia and Russians . ..

I bet your russians wives or girlfriends never trully and honestly told you their opinion about this or that political matter,cos they are scared and just in order not to irritate your narrow minded, superiour  point of view...

Which should lead to a NEW  THREAD: entitled:  Are RW more Paranoid,
Xenophobic, and Nationalistic than Ukraine Women? Is the Mother Russia Complex stronger with Russian women than Ukraine women and how does this affect relations with WM especially AM?

In that thread we can also explore other issues and comparisons
between Russian women and Ukraine women, such as: who are the best;
who is smarter; who is more likely to be a GCG; who is higher maintenance; who would make a better wife and mother; who is more likely to know how
to churn butter and make homemade bread; who is more likely to be a generally pain in the butt when it comes to talking about their country of origin?...........These and other pressing questions await in the new thread...........

[Gator]

Jazzy,

I noticed for myself that I find it hard  sometimes to communicate with american people than to english ones

Brits on average tend to be more reserved and polite than Americans.  So maybe that is one reason.  If you say something caustic to a Brit, perhaps they ignore you politely.  

When you do move to UK, I would at first practice the following rule:  if you do not have anything good to say, then don't say anything.

As with all RW who marry a foreign man, you are giving up a lot to be beside your husband.  You must be feeling some concerns and "moving pains," if not doubts, as D-Day approaches.  Perhaps you are taking it out on us rather than the Brits.

Finally, when you first started communicating with your "boy," did you not think that this could eventually require you to leave Mother Russia?  My fiancee has some single firends who are not happy with RM, yet will not consider foreign men because they do not not want to move, to walk away from their family and friends.  RW have more to lose in this endeavor than do Western men.

[BC]

If American patriot Thomas Paine were alive today and a member of this board, he might pen a few words on this thread:

As to western intervention...

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. "


As to our petulant Muskovite....

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

   

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
        Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
        US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

I think if he were here today we would have to give/change his diapers... frequently.

[BC]

   
I think if he were here today we would have to give/change his diapers... frequently.

Lets face it.. Jazzy could be totally off track but even still she sees a hole with dirt flying out of it.. whether it is Bush or a dog is quite irrelevant.. a hole is being dug.

[BC]

RW have more to lose in this endeavor than do Western men.

Yeah.. but we are not talking politics.  If you can't take her 'politics' then move on..  luckily according to the results of this poll, chances is you won't have to worry about it if you aren't worried about it.

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy,

Brits on average tend to be more reserved and polite than Americans.  So maybe that is one reason.  If you say something caustic to a Brit, perhaps they ignore you politely.  

When you do move to UK, I would at first practice the following rule:  if you do not have anything good to say, then don't say anything.

As with all RW who marry a foreign man, you are giving up a lot to be beside your husband.  You must be feeling some concerns and "moving pains," if not doubts, as D-Day approaches.  Perhaps you are taking it out on us rather than the Brits.

Finally, when you first started communicating with your "boy," did you not think that this could eventually require you to leave Mother Russia?  My fiancee has some single firends who are not happy with RM, yet will not consider foreign men because they do not not want to move, to walk away from their family and friends.  RW have more to lose in this endeavor than do Western men.

thank you for the advice Gator I will take it into account, well I thought of  eventually leaving Mother Russia for my husband of course

As for about being paranoid, it is not that, it is the ability to stand your ground  and defend your opinion.

[Serebro]

My personal opinion is that there's no place for religious and political discussions in a family.

[Shadow]

 We are very proud to be Americans. What other country gives so much financial aid to the world? What other country gives ANYONE the opportunity to succeed beyond their wildest dream no matter what sex,color or to what class you were born?

Netherlands perhaps ?
 

[BC]

Netherlands perhaps ?
 

interesting counter-point..http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001805.html

http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001805.html

Italians deliver more pizza I guess..