political wives?

[Jazzyclassy]

I will read the link Chivo,  thanks

[KenC]

Ken,
Its more common these days.  The whole country is a changing and the media has an anti american bias.  Some of what I see JC write is echoed by other friends I have over there and they are a very diverse bunch... Just saying what I hear that's all.

DKMM,
Oh, I agree with you 100%.  And your point earlier about guys understanding that some of the viewpoints might be expressed by their gf's/wives is a very valid point.  Fortunately, most do not have the disposition of a rattlesnake.
KenC

[KenC]

Gator ,

The fact that KenC is the most repulsive person in so many internet boards such as RWD it is not a secret and that he is a bully that is for sure. And you do not have to be a child to understand that.

You can not be real men if you humiliate a russian woman in the board, much more younger than you are and who can be your grandaughter, at the same time you compare this woman with your russian wives, and humiliate her and insult her dignity much more, just cos she has the other opinion. I have no respect for such men and will never have, who are claiming and boasting to be from a higher Society,belonging to High class manners and meanwhile they are ready to  mix a woman with mud , no matter which views she can have. Not everybody think like you think "gentlemen".

I failed to explain my position about KenC and his constant mocking at any of my posts no matter what I say  to Dan,I honestly think Dan just does not hear what I try to explain , he is shutting his eyes, ok , let this be on his conscience, I 've always believed that the administration of this site is loyal and fair, but  I begin to doubt this seriously

About political views, you are all living in America , you have pro Americanized policy and of course it is natural to defend your country and to be patriotic, that's fair I understand. But why are you forbiding the other person to defend his/her own country like you defend yours.Where is your loyality?

The topic was about expressing your true honest views on politics in general, why do I have to lie about my views just in order to suit this dedushka KenC?

In real life , knowing such an ill reaction on my opinion about politics I wont even participate in such debate with american people and pro americanized nations like ukrain for example, that is all, so do not you worry about my life in the UK, worry about yourself please, no need to take somebody's problems on yourself.

I wonder why I can calmly talk with my friends from europe about politics and they never ever react like all the memebers of this forum do , so do not think that I am an alien , person with a black sheep attitude, you are wrong, but who cares,  you will never apologize for insults and even more will encourage such dedushkas who do not know what to do else  like KenC to participate here and to insult other women,if that was your wife KenC who would be insulted? I bet you would be wild, but you would not understand that while insulting other women, cos you are all over yourself.

All these bullies and insults will return back to you , so go on , carry on your mockings "hero"

Jazzy, Jazzy, Jazzy,
You have become such a predictable child. If you expect me to behave as a gentleman toward you, maybe you should start acting more like a lady?  The mere fact that you expect some sort of special treatment because of your gender is hypocritical to your own demands for equality.  But don't let me interrupt your continuing act as a victim.  Carry on.
KenC

[Admin]

DKMM,
Oh, I agree with you 100%.  And your point earlier about guys understanding that some of the viewpoints might be expressed by their gf's/wives is a very valid point.  Fortunately, most do not have the disposition of a rattlesnake like Jazzy does.
KenC

Ken,

You and Jazzy are at odds. Both of you are playing into it.

Please take it to PM's - just as I suggested to her.

If you and she persist with the personal insults, it will require my time to clean it up - and adults should not behave in ways that require others to clean up after them. [That was a comment to BOTH of you - KenC and Jazzyclassy]

- Dan

[BC]

One thing I like to do is put myself in the other person shoes as best as possible, to see things from a different perspective. It's one of the things here that has changed my view on things happening around the world.

amen.. a very good practice. Glad you brought it up.

[Eduard]

I am sorry, Eduard, but the friend of your friend seems to be an "old school" person who got used to bribery.You give a bribe and you get what you want.You didn't have to worry about small details like making certificates or something.You could give money to the "right person" and you could do and sell what you wanted.


10 years ago it was nearly impossible for my family to start its own business because you had to pay a lot to "gangsters"and do it regularly and if you didn't you and your family would be kicked out of this filed or even killed, so mainly people who were close friends of "gangsters" or "gangsters" themselves could start business and control the situation.

Now both me and my father run their own businesses so many of my friends do and I don't see the situation as "bezpredel".Of course now I have to worry a lot about the quality of services and make a lot of documents to start my own business but the idea is that the population get some protection as I can't really do what I want just by paying money to the right person.Of course it's not perfect but it's definitely not worse than it was 10 years ago.

just a note.

Serebro, I appreciate your point of view, but his situation is probably very different from your's. I'm glad that you and your dad don't have to deal with any protection rackets, but the fact remains that most businesses still have to pay for "protection" only nowdays the cops are collecting. Your business might be still very small to get noticed. His, is a multimillion dollar company that has been in buisness since the 90s so he has something to compare things with. I was just relaying the story I was told. It might not be your own experience but you can't speak for every business person in Russia. Is that fair?

[Serebro]

Serebro, I appreciate your point of view, but his situation is probably very different from your's. Your business might be still very small to get noticed. His, is a multimillion dollar company that has been in buisness since the 90s so he has something to compare things with. I was just relaying the story I was told. It might not be your own experience but you can't speak for every business person in Russia. Is that fair?

If he started his business in the 90-ies he evidently belonged to the "bad men" category of people who created their business in time when there weren't any particular laws and chances for ordinary people to start their business.

Now he has to deal with the law that forbids him to do what he wants and got used to. So this makes him hate "the government"/

[BC]

His, is a multimillion dollar company that has been in buisness since the 90s so he has something to compare things with.

There are comparable aspects in the west regarding larger companies.  Although violence is usually not involved, they become targets of a vast array of legal 'weapons' i.e. lawsuits, price dumping, etc.

Here I pay a private security firm that 'keeps the peace'.  I figure most of the guys working there, if they didn't have a legal job would be out on the street.

Everyone asks about the mafia when I tell them where I live, but absolutely no fear here.  Those that do get involved with them will likely fare worse if they don't keep up with their 'obligations'. 

Regarding RU, I say patience is the key.  Nothing happens overnight.  Expect many years to see true progress.  Italy, especially the southern part is a good example  for comparison.  It has taken decades and it ain't over yet.

[Ronnie]

want to talk about freedom of the press. Well in America, under Bush, freedom of the press basically is agreeing with FOX News, who controls the media there. Oh you can disagree strongly with the powers that be and live, but in essence you'll be committing career suicide instead.

Chivo, Please give an example of an American journalist who "comitted career suicide by disagreeing with the powers that be"
Perhaps it would be good to define who are the powers that be.  As you know the party in the majority of the congress is different from the party of the executive.  Fox news is certainly popular in America but hardly incontrol of anything.  I think Fox is only popular because it does try to allow all points of view on the issues of the day.  Other networks operate as organs of the liberal elite.

Again Chivo, if you don't provide examples or hard data, such as I have done with murdered journalists, then you are not succeeding in rising above.  Your only reference is someone's blog on "Exile" I've read some of Vlad Kalashnikoff's nonsense there too.  Again, no substance, no data, no objectivity...complete and utter nonsense.

[BC]

Again Chivo, if you don't provide examples or hard data, such as I have done with murdered journalists, then you are not succeeding in rising above. 

Hard data? Has the murder been solved? - or maybe that's somehow not necessary?

[Ronnie]

BC,

Are you asking about Politkovskaya?  I gave you a name, (more than Chivo has done).  Google the name and all your questions will be answered.  It's not about just one journalist either...the INSI has more data.

My question was about the "career suicide" comment Chivo threw in there.

[Faux Pas]

Chivo, Please give an example of an American journalist who "comitted career suicide by disagreeing with the powers that be"
Perhaps it would be good to define who are the powers that be.  As you know the party in the majority of the congress is different from the party of the executive.  Fox news is certainly popular in America but hardly incontrol of anything.  I think Fox is only popular because it does try to allow all points of view on the issues of the day.  Other networks operate as organs of the liberal elite.

Again Chivo, if you don't provide examples or hard data, such as I have done with murdered journalists, then you are not succeeding in rising above.  Your only reference is someone's blog on "Exile" I've read some of Vlad Kalashnikoff's nonsense there too.  Again, no substance, no data, no objectivity...complete and utter nonsense.

Ronnie I agree with your summation. It should also be noted that Fox has only gained popularity to become the fastest growing and biggest network because of the "Big Three" plus CNN's and MSNBC refusal to present news without a left leaning slant. Which is/was their right

[Jet]

I think Fox is only popular because it does try to allow all points of view on the issues of the day.  Other networks operate as organs of the liberal elite.

Ronnie, not to get into a pissing contest but are you relegating your statistics and observations to TV media only? The reason I ask is because the radio format has been dominated *almost* to the point of monopoly by conservative ownership (estimates consistently hover around the 90% mark), and I don't see the print media favoring either side excessively, though of course you have specific papers and periodicals which are either ultra conservative or ultra liberal.

Murdoch really needs to change the name of his network to FOX Entertainment because it's about as "fair and balanced" in its reporting as professional wrestling is a genuine competitive sport

[Jet]

Just to make my position a little more clear:

because of the "Big Three" plus CNN's and MSNBC refusal to present news without a left leaning slant. Which is/was their right

absolutely agree with this assessment 

[Eduard]

BC,

Are you asking about Politkovskaya?  I gave you a name, (more than Chivo has done).  Google the name and all your questions will be answered.  It's not about just one journalist either...the INSI has more data.

My question was about the "career suicide" comment Chivo threw in there.

I saw a special about Politkovskaya on TV a few months back and the number of journalists who openly criticised the government murdered under Putin was 220 I believe. Only 6 were solved...

[sudz]

I wonder why I can calmly talk with my friends from europe about politics

I'm sorry JC, but this inspired me to wonder what that might sound like so I came up with a possibility.  This is in no way a dig at you (I always enjoy seeing your name in the poster column), this is a dig at how other nations seem to be perceiving the US.

JC = Jazzy
EF = EuroFriend

<i>Scene: a comfortable living room somewhere in Europe.  The windows are open to fresh breezes of spring.</i>

[JC]:    I wish the Americans would stop enslaving other countries.
[EF1]:  Me too
[EF2]:  I heard the Iraqi president got the first memo from them.
[EF1]:  Really? What did it say?
[EF2]:  The Iraqi's have to sell their oil to Exxon at $25.19 a barrel, a Wal-Mart must be constructed in every town over 25,000 population, and for some reason the US wants orphaned babies.
[JC]:    What on earth for?
[EF2]:  They think the terrorists will desist if they can buy $2.00, 10 pack of tube socks.
[JC]:    Not that - the baby thing.
[EF1]:   I got this one - apparently the US Army is running out of money enslaving countries so it uses babies instead of beef for its K-rations.
[JC]:    That can't be true!
[EF1]:  Oh, yes.  Putin uncovered their inhuman plot and Al-Jazeera confirmed it.
[JC]:    That's awful.  But if they're running out of food, why are they enslaving people in the Sudan with food?
[EF2]:  They're not delivering food to the refugees in Sudan.  That's not the food program they're implementing at all.
[EF1]:  What horrors now?
[EF2]:  A McDonald's every 100 meters and 10% off coupons to the refugees.
[JC]:    McDonald's, eh?  I saw on the TV that they put Western mind-control drugs in the Big-Mac.  Always order the Fish Fillet since they don't bother with the drug in it.
[EF1]:  Where did you see this?
[EF2]:  Yes, where?
[JC}:    It was on a commercial for McSergei's Burgers.
[EF2]:  OK - Fish Fillet it is.
[JC]:    I saw an American tourist in the McSergei's yesterday.  He was acting so superior.
[EF1]:  I can believe it.
[EF2]:  I can believe it.
[Sudz]:  I can believe it.
[JC]:   ?
[EF1]: ?
[EF2]: ?
[JC]: <i>sees Sudz's head in the window</i>  Excuse me - what on earth are you doing?  This is a private conversation.
[Sudz]: I was passing by and heard your remark. As an American . . .
[EF1]:   Hide the baby!!!!
[Sudz]: errrr, I feel everyone needs to know my opinion so I stuck my head in.
[JC]:    Well stick out again and move on - go get a Big-Mac.
[Sudz]: One thing - do you know where I can get a Coors Light in town?  Everyplace I go to only has those primitive oak barrels and beer taps.
[JC]:     <i>starts growling</i>
[Sudz]: Or better yet, can anyone teach me the phrase "Whadaya mean you don't have Coors Light?  What kind of country is this?".  That would suit me better.
[JC]:     Out!!! <i>Tosses a handy lamp at Sudz, beaning him soundly on the head. But being an American, it seems to have no effect.</i>
[Sudz]:  Oh well, off to the Marriott.  Bye.




- Sudz

[Ronnie]

Nice job Sudz

 

And, let's not forget that, as we write, there are people who believe fully that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government or Israel or both; that the holocaust is a myth; and that man has never walked on the moon.

Again to paraphrase Thomas Paine (who was paraphrasing Matthew 7:6); It's a waste of time to use reason on those who forsake the practice.  Jesus added that it's not only a waste but the swine will attack you.

[timothe]

Nice job Sudz

 

And, let's not forget that, as we write, there are people who believe fully that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government or Israel or both; that the holocaust is a myth; and that man has never walked on the moon.

Cameraguy and perhaps William 3rd as well are 9/11 truthists.  We had a discussion about that last year. 

A little off-topic, but I believe someone was referencing the Russian government's role in the free press.  This story was linked from Drudge today. 

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VC3AP00&show_article=1     

[timothe]

Murdoch really needs to change the name of his network to FOX Entertainment because it's about as "fair and balanced" in its reporting as professional wrestling is a genuine competitive sport

This is the inherent difference between right wing views about the media and left wing views about the media.

When the right wing complains about the media, they are complaining specifically about slanted news, such as the New York Times story about McCain or the fact that not one single newspaper or broadcast network mentioned Spitzer's party affiliation, yet when David Vitter's phone number appeared in the DC Madam's book, the story was "Conservative Congressman customer of the DC Madam".  Every news outlet led with Vitter's party affiliation.  Google it if you want proof.

When the left wing complains about the media, they are complaining about slanted commentary such as Bill O'Reilly, Shawn Hannity, or Rush Limbaugh.  Rarely can the left wing point at a news story slanted heavily to the right.  They simply don't exist.  And of course, we all know that commentators are biased by nature.  They are supposed to provide opinions.  That's what they are paid to do. 

Both Media Matters and Newsbusters.org are media watchdog sites.  See how often Media Matters takes on the New York Times or the AP or any of the network news broadcasts.  Then, compare that to the stories about commentators.  Then go to Newsbusters.org and try the same experiment.  If you have any capacity for objectivity, you'll plainly see where the media is biased and where it is not biased.   

[catzenmouse]

Zing-------> There it went!

What? (you ask)

The thread about political wives of course... 

[Admin]

Zing-------> There it went!

What? (you ask)

The thread about political wives of course... 

Yep - once the title includes the word "political", there is no telling the twists and turns it will take.

- Dan

[Eduard]

If he started his business in the 90-ies he evidently belonged to the "bad men" category of people who created their business in time when there weren't any particular laws and chances for ordinary people to start their business.

Now he has to deal with the law that forbids him to do what he wants and got used to. So this makes him hate "the government"/

Serebro,
now you are taking it beyond reason. How can you generalise? Every man that started business in the 90s is a bad man??? That's nonesense!!! I have a few friends that I grew up with that started businesses in the 90s who are good honorable people! They had to do what they had to do in that invironment to survive and to provide for thir family! Yes they had to deal with gangsters but they weren't the gangsters! You are totally missing the point.
What my friend was telling me was that 8-10 years ago in order to stay in business they had to pay Mafia for the "roof", now the Militia took place of the Mafia and is shaking down businesses. In no way they are doing it to "uphold the law" They absolutely don't give a damn what his business is doing, it is irrelevant to them. They just want to get paid. The point that He was making: Mafia people at least had some sort of brains and wouldn't demand the amounts of money that would just put him out of business, because they wanted a continuous flow of money and it was in their interest for a business to survive and to thrive. Today, when the Police comes to demand pay offs they demand the sums that don't make any sense and can bankrupt a company. These cops don't care, because they have to rotate from one district to another and they just try to grab as much as they can, because in 6 months they will be in another district shaking down other businesses and weather this one survives is irrelavant to them.
I suspect that you and your dad have a small family business that brings you enough to have a decent life, but it is probably too small to justify a visit from local policemen who will ask you to pay $5,000 or $20,000 a month if you want to stay in business.

[I/O]

Goodness, what a waste of cyber space. In the latter stages, every post seemed to start with "Jazzy........". I give the woman some credit for engaging so many people's attention. Perhaps she is not so "UnRussian" as I know one or two others with the ability to engage a group of guys............................however, it is usually with something other than their political opinions.

Americas interventionist policy............hmmm who jumped into East Germany, made the place a misery and then refused to repatriate it's own troops to their homeland 50 years later? Who jumped into Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania (And is hated by many of the natives to this day)? Who jumped into Afghanistan and got it's arse well and truly kicked in the process? Who jumped into the Caucuses and still has schit all over it's face? Shhhhhhhhh don't tell anyone that it was/is dear old mother Russia.

Now let's sit back honestly and consider if one or the other sides has it hands clean? Even a dumbarse like me can see that answer.

Current economics? Oh dear me, this is too funny. Most would say that Russia is currently in the best shape it has been in for umpteen decades and most would say that America is perhaps in the worst shape, or heading that way in the same umpteen decades. It's a bit like talking percentages vs quantum numbers. Living standards and opportunity are still 1000's of times better in America than they are in Russia. I have no desire to, but I could live in either country as I can see the positives and negatives of both however when it comes to getting something done, there is no comparison between the two and IMO there never will be. If I want to achieve and get on, America would win in the first 1 metre of the race. No argument, no comparison.

Now, to bring this back to the thread title. Political wives, or political opinions of wives...................ho hum. Sorry KenC, but JC's opinions are not untypical of Russian Women. (Whoa there Jazz, don't think I am giving you a vote of approval for your opinions.......read on) The very vast majority of RW, I know, have met and hear opinions from are very similar in so far as they are almost completely ignorant of real politics. They have a few scant reports from a sanitised media to base an opinion on. They further have the disadvantage regarding international politics of being indoctrinated over a long period of time with the isolationist thinking being pumped down their throats by the Russian propaganda machine.

Jazz, maybe you will take this on board, I have had some similar discussions with my wife and she was/is quite dogmatic with her opinions on given subjects regarding other countries, yes, including America. Countries which she has never and probably will never set foot in. Bottom line is she hasn't a clue and I have told her that in so many words and further I advise her to not speak on matter she knows nothing about, but rather, ask questions and thereby show the real value of her education and decency by remaining silent, learning and forming a factually rather than emotionally based opinion. You know something like that old saying "Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". I am finding it interesting to watch her change her view and thinking somewhat.

She is now starting to see the good things in Australia may not be as good as some imagine, the bad things in Australia are not as bad as some imagine, the good things in Russia may also have a sting in the tail and the bad things are not as bad as some will have you believe. "But my cousin was in America and he couldn't believe all the fat people he saw", so therefore it is a known fact that all Americans are fat. (Sarcasm intended) Thus I pulled some old photos for her to review. 2 in USA which were simply street shots showing some of the cutest female arses you would ever see and two in Russia showing some of the fattest people you would wish to imagine. What's the point? She was spruking on a subject of which she had NO first hand knowledge. Much like very many Russian women do when they talk international politics. Think about it. Point is, when it comes to discussing international and in particular, American politics, just because many Russian women will share your opinion, and I agree, they do, it does not mean they have a clue what they are talking about.

Jazz, whilst I have found much of this thread amusing to read, your comments and the reactions thereto included, there was one post of yours I found seriously disturbing. Your almost justifying the journalist's assassination based on your view of her being a supporter of America. Whether she was a supporter or not is not the point I take issue with. The point I take issue with is that there is NO justification under any circumstances for political assassinations in a civilised country. Russia claims to be a civilised country, however such acts clearly cast a very heavy cloud over whether or not that is the case, and your comment, whether intended or not is suggestive that justification for such uncivilised butchery is deeper rooted in the thinking of many Russians than I would have cared to imagine. I feel strongly enough about that comment to feel somewhat sickened by it.

Patriotism is one thing, a thing I admire very much in Russian people, but blind tolerance of barbaric acts of that nature, based on an argument of patriotism, which are not acceptable in any decent or civilised society, distrubs me greatly. I suggest you revisit your thinking on this one if you seriously desire to lead a decent life in a civilised country.   

I/O

[Gator]

I/O wrote,

Americas interventionist policy............hmmm who jumped into East Germany, made the place a misery and then refused to repatriate it's own troops to their homeland 50 years later? Who jumped into Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania (And is hated by many of the natives to this day)? Who jumped into Afghanistan and got it's arse well and truly kicked in the process? Who jumped into the Caucuses and still has schit all over it's face? Shhhhhhhhh don't tell anyone that it was/is dear old mother Russia.

Those were Soviets, not Russians.  Don't you know the difference!  If you do, please tell me because I don't know.  The only difference I can see is that the former had the ability to spend much more on military power.

[Ranetka]

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.
1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia.
September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.
1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras." 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
1982: U.S. provides billions of dollars in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
1983: The White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.
1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties.
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.
1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
2000-2001: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid."
Sept. 11, 2001: Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.