Big City Women!!!

[Gator]

Madonna is from the likes of Grosse Pointe?

[Lily]

The question thus is: is a BCW from the Big Three/Four more
or less likely to be:

1.  more "Westernized"   (in the negative sense/aspects)
2.  more materialistic
3.  higher maintenance
4.  more  financially demanding
5.  more arrogant towards your small/medium city or even
    BC of 1 million
6.  more self focused/absorbed/seeking
7.  more cunning and aggressive in the negative sense
8.  more conceited and vain

Note: I am not proposeing answers, only raising questions.

What would be the case, or at least SEEM to be the case with
a Muscovite woman like this:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/index.php?ap=2773209

What shocks me in this list is why on earth do you suggest the negative qualities of the BCW only?

Why would not you think that among BCW women there are many people with great survivor and adjustment skills, people who used to speak and write English for most of their waking time, people who earn salaries not much less than you and your friends in the U.S., people who used to work hard and would be willing to work hard for your benefit as well? The women who are your equals?

I am not saying that most of BCW are like I described here. In fact, I don't know whether there are more of less of them..BCW are just too many. There are both good and bad apples among them.

[KenC]

Madonna is from the likes of Grosse Pointe?

Gator,
Most GP'ers come from old money like the Fords, while Rochester is next door to Bloomfield Hills where the new Automotive rich live.  I remember reading a story in the local newspaper where Bloomfield Hills' zip code had more wealth than Beverly Hills 90210 when that show was popular.  Lots of local celebrities from that general area too (Bob Seger, Barry Sanders, Kid Rock and Eninem)
KenC

[Fashionista]

Well, I hate to rain on your parade, but Madonna grew up in Rochester, MI.  Even though Rochester, itself is a small town, it is really just a continuation of the mass suburbia surrounding Detroit.  they may have preserved the small town "downtown" but in no way is it truly a small town.  I lived less than a mile from her childhood home.  Later she did buy a vineyard for her Dad in Traverse City, MI which is a true small town.

Some may also question how much influence being born in a small town may have had on Britney as she hit super stardom at 16. 
KenC

You are, probably, a detail-oriented person, and I am very much result-oriented, or as my favourite prof used to say: "If you don't embellish the truth you'll never create a doctrine." 

[WmGO]

What shocks me in this list is why on earth do you suggest the negative qualities of the BCW only?

Lily, Lily, read carefully. I went out of my way to make clear I was not suggesting anything. I was only stimulating further discussion by posing *questions* that constitue the opposite bookend from Gator's original suggestions. 

Why would not you think that among BCW women there are many people with great survivor and adjustment skills, people who used to speak and write English for most of their waking time, people who earn salaries not much less than you and your friends in the U.S., people who used to work hard and would be willing to work hard for your benefit as well? The women who are your equals?

Lily, Lily, why assume I think such things?  I don't.  I agree with your thoughts that there certainly are such BCW. To suggest otherwise would be sheer lunacy. 

I agree with this summary: Note , I have to plug into another post as I cannot figure out how to quote it here as it exists on another page of this thread.

[SANDRO43]

Note , I have to plug into another post as I cannot figure out how to quote it here as it exists on another page of this thread.

WmGO, you can leave a partially-completed post and navigate to whatever page contains something else you want quote. When you press "Insert Quote" there, you'll be eventually returned to your original posting page, with the new quote inserted .

[WmGO]

This is the point Lily I agree with, similar as your concluding suggestion:

Snobs exist everywhere, scammers exist everywhere, stars exist everywhere and among all of those, there is some super people. Up to you to find her/him.
I/O 

By "all of those" I/O was referring to places ........which I would agree with . Still, perhaps some places are higher risk than others. Since the FSUW phenomema began there seems to be some places more problematic than others - Lugansk in Ukraine for example. Many say the Big Three also. Maybe others will share their views  -  as Simoni did.


Modified to add: Thanks Sandro.

[SANDRO43]

Modified to add: Thanks Sandro.

Don't be too hasty, what I suggested only seems to work within the same thread, not across different threads. Sorry .

[Misha]

Why would not you think that among BCW women there are many people with great survivor and adjustment skills, people who used to speak and write English for most of their waking time, people who earn salaries not much less than you and your friends in the U.S., people who used to work hard and would be willing to work hard for your benefit as well? The women who are your equals?

The problem is that once a woman gets to her new country, there is no guarantee that she will earn as much as she was earning in Moscow. If a woman was hired in a international company in Moscow for her English-language skills, will she be equally in demand in her new country for her Russian-language skills? Probably not. If she is lucky, she may get the occasional contract, but there is no guarantee. Some women will have an easier time of integrating into her new country and finding a good job, for others it will be more difficult, notably women who got jobs because of connections.

Worst case scenario IMHO: a woman from Moscow who was earning a lot of money based on her family's connections in Moscow immigrates to the United States and finds out that she will have to work very hard to integrate into her new country and that she may not be able to get the same "prestigious" jobs in her new country.

[Gator]

Gaubaub wrote,

Worst case scenario IMHO: a woman from Moscow who was earning a lot of money based on her family's connections in Moscow immigrates to the United States and finds out that she will have to work very hard to integrate into her new country and that she may not be able to get the same "prestigious" jobs in her new country.

Not only do I agree, does it not apply to essentially all RW in the beginning whether their prior "prestigious" job had resulted from merit or nepotism?   My feeling is that the RW who had earned a prestigious job by merit will struggle at first yet eventually take off with fewer constraints than in the FSU.

[mischief]

Why would not you think that among BCW women there are many people with great survivor and adjustment skills, people who used to speak and write English for most of their waking time, people who earn salaries not much less than you and your friends in the U.S., people who used to work hard and would be willing to work hard for your benefit as well? The women who are your equals?

The problem is that the women you described (who can afford travelling, owning properties abroad etc.) will not be willing to move to another country ... At least I've never met a mature successful person who wants to leave everything she worked hard and fight for and start from scratch in a foreign environment with a mediocre man... Unless she is extremely adventurous (and with a back up plan) or/and the guy is exceptional....

[Gator]

At least I've never met a mature successful person who wants to leave everything she worked hard and fight for and start from scratch in a foreign environment with a mediocre man...

Mischief, let me introduce you to Lilly. 

Lilly is exceptional and will not leave for a mediocre man.  And she is adventurous, ________, ______, ______, __________, _______, _________, and ___________ [you can insert any of a number of the desirable qualities she possesses].

[Misha]

Gaubaub wrote,

Not only do I agree, does it not apply to essentially all RW in the beginning whether their prior "prestigious" job had resulted from merit or nepotism?   My feeling is that the RW who had earned a prestigious job by merit will struggle at first yet eventually take off with fewer constraints than in the FSU.

I would say that a woman who earned her status, who worked hard, will understand that hard work is necessary for success. She will still have a difficult year or two, but IMO it will be easier for her in medium and long term.

[mischief]

Mischief, let me introduce you to Lilly. 

Lilly is exceptional and will not leave for a mediocre man.  And she is adventurous, ________, ______, ______, __________, _______, _________, and ___________ [you can insert any of a number of the desirable qualities she possesses].

Gator, very nice of you... just do not see how my statement contradicts with yours... I wrote "Unless" ... which narrows the pool of successful women down significantly for mediocre guys...
Back to Lilly, all can I say from her posts she is a nice intelligent person... I do not know her personally to have an idea about her character and level of success, do you??

[mischief]

I would say that a woman who earned her status, who worked hard, will understand that hard work is necessary for success. She will still have a difficult year or two, but IMO it will be easier for her in medium and long term.

I am sorry but I doubt that any person who worked hard and earned a status would trade it to unknown... "You may go farther and fare worse"...  Unless a person likes to challenge himself and is a bit crazy in a good sense... but how many people like that are there??? Sooo... to win a successful woman you would have to be damn good to make a "trade" worth...

[Gator]

Mischief,

I read your qualifiers and we do not contradict each other.  I just thought that you should know more about your RWD sister who originated the comment that prompted your comment.

Do I know Lilly?

Somewhat.  She resides in Moscow.  Last July my fiancee and I spent a delightful afternoon with her.  I have also spoken to her on the phone.    A lady in every sense of the word.

Her numerous posts are also revealing.  They are very insightful and seem to represent her genuine feelings.  Plus she always tries to help a man who asks for help.

[Gator]

Mischief wrote,

Sooo... to win a successful woman you would have to be damn good to make a "trade" worth...

You act surprised, as if you believe every man who goes after RW is a loser, fell off a turnip truck, etc.

We are not so bad.

I met a few successful women in their 40s.  Driving a car, owning a new or remount apartment, traveling on their own money, and approaching an empty nest.  It seemed that all were looking for a brand new life, but not just with anyone.  They were more particular than the women in the 30s struggling with raising young children.

[Misha]

Mischief wrote,
You act surprised, as if you believe every man who goes after RW is a loser, fell off a turnip truck, etc.

We are not so bad.

I concur with Gator. My wife had the choice of marrying a man from Germany (she met him while visiting relatives in that country). He was desperate for her and he proposed on the second day that he saw her. She said no. He pursued her for a three more years, and she continued to say no. The issue: she did not love him. She left Russia because she loved me and even though she knew it would be hard learning a new language and adjusting to a new country.

[mischief]

Mischief wrote,
You act surprised, as if you believe every man who goes after RW is a loser, fell off a turnip truck, etc.

We are not so bad.

I met a few successful women in their 40s.  Driving a car, owning a new or remount apartment, traveling on their own money, and approaching an empty nest.  It seemed that all were looking for a brand new life, but not just with anyone.  They were more particular than the women in the 30s struggling with raising young children.

I do not see where you got your conclusions from... in fact, I believe that the guys who built a happy family with women from different culture are in some way unique... after all you have to possess some unique qualities to look for you soulmate outside your back yard... all I was saying if you are average guy look for an average woman...
... and I can not understand why you describe all the good qualities of Lilly ( I have no doubts she is a good person) to me... Are you trying to sell something?? Then I am not a buyer... Are you trying to compare her and me?? Then, I do not care...

[Blues Fairy]

I am sorry but I doubt that any person who worked hard and earned a status would trade it to unknown... "You may go farther and fare worse"...  Unless a person likes to challenge himself and is a bit crazy in a good sense... but how many people like that are there???

There are some. 
Not everything hard-earned is worth keeping at the expense of lost opportunities.

[Turboguy]

I am sorry but I doubt that any person who worked hard and earned a status would trade it to unknown... "You may go farther and fare worse"...  Unless a person likes to challenge himself and is a bit crazy in a good sense... but how many people like that are there??? Sooo... to win a successful woman you would have to be damn good to make a "trade" worth...

Actually you might be surprised how common that is Mischief.   Lots of people make a mid life career change.   I did it myself.  The first half of my working career I had a good marketing business.  It did not make me rich but it put food on the table and I did far better than average.  I had always wanted to try the manufacturing business and thanks to some bad luck and a divorce during the transition I pretty much lost everything I had and more but in the long run it was the best thing I ever did (business wise). 

I think the same applies to our romantic life and anything in our life.  I dated some AW who were attractive, well built, and and nice personalities.   There was just something missing.   There are a lot of challenges and difficulties that go with looking for an FSU wife.  Still it was the best thing I did in my personal life. 

People will gamble everything on their dreams.  Isn't that exactly what a lot of the FSU women do?   Life would be very boring and little would be accomplished if we all took the safe route.

[mischief]

Actually you might be surprised how common that is Mischief.   Lots of people make a mid life career change.   

I was talking about successful people ... being able to focus on one thing, work hard and be great at this one thing makes a person successful... how many successful doctors, scientists, businessmen, designers etc. have decided to change their careers???
I'm not arguing for the sake of argument... just stating obvious to anyone... not that many smart people will take like to less, that's all...

[Turboguy]

One of the friends I made on my first romance tour was an ortopedic surgeon who had just passed the bar and was going to switch to being a lawyer because he was tired of the medical profession. It does happen.

[Jazzyclassy]

I was talking about successful people ... being able to focus on one thing, work hard and be great at this one thing makes a person successful... how many successful doctors, scientists, businessmen, designers etc. have decided to change their careers???
I'm not arguing for the sake of argument... just stating obvious to anyone... not that many smart people will take like to less, that's all...

Well Blue Fairy is a successful person  but she moved to America with her husband

[Turboguy]

There is a difference in doing something well (being successful) and enjoying what you do (being happy)    Sometimes there comes a point in our life when we realize that making money is not everything and we have learned enough about ourselves to look at something besides earnings potential in what we do with our life and perhaps have a better idea of what we would find fullfilling.