Agency owners

[RacerX]

Kevin,

Thanks for the info - in many ways I agree.  It's not fair if other agencies use anon ip's or that matter real ip's and the board admins don't do anything about it.  

There has got to be a way for both side to fairly present their side of the story in this electronic medium.... maybe some techno type can suggest a solution.  One thought I had was to limit agency owners to a pre-announced chat forum.  

Of course, the board admins wouldn't have been placed in such a position if you guys could just ''play fair.'  

[itstime]

Hey, if these agency owners want to share some actual real information, then I'm all for it. But when they spend all their time whining about their business, their competition, fairness, etc. then I am just plain fed up with them. Before I started contacting women I read some mailing lists and boards and I got the impression that all agency owners were petty crooks. So I decided to entirely avoid dealing with marriage agencies.

Damn, there goes one of those absolutes again! After writing "all agency owners" I remembered Elena Petrova. But maybe she is the exception that proves the rule. She has several sites packed with useful information. Sure she does a soft sell that leads you towards using her agency, but it is hidden in with tons of real practical advice. Having read the story of her meeting her husband in Ekaterinburg, I know that she is a savvy businesswoman and I expect that she makes a ton of money from her business.

As for Kevin's agency, buddy I have to say that your website looks like s**t! And it is confusing, i.e. too much stuff on the first page so people don't know where to find info. And that first page loads like a Texas armadillo on the road in August, probably because of the ugly page turning photos. If your site looked more professional then you wouldn't need to worry about your reputation being damaged by a**holes who spew crap into Google. So the question is, why are you spending so much time on these boards instead of fixing your website?

 

[Bruno]

Bruno!!!

It's such a great idea.  I can put up a quicky web site and solicit free contact to everyone.  The cost wouldn't be much more than 40 euro a month.  Hostbasket, in Belguim, has a web hosting service and I can just copy a web dating site, change a few details, and what you have is "Jon's free dating service".

Like you said, I see all the ads first so I would get the best...

Bruno, I think you are rich from being a genius!!

Jon

It is a little off topic but it is a good way for show how can work marriage agency...

I have already reply about the money side on LV... Shadow was the man with more interest... a greedy hollander ( his own word ) who will know how much can be the expense... Since i have nothing to hide, i have give all detail...

I use the free space that provider give when you take a internet abonnement... but since 50 mb was too short ( pdf and music are big file ), i pay a supplement of 8.26 euro month for 50MB more... and 2.44 euro month for the domain name... this mean that my real expense for my site is 10.70 euro... only a few beer...

But i have not only expense... i have income too... for the first 4 month, i have earn around 300$... so, it is enough for pay for the site and use the remaining money for publicity... Since may, i have not more earn something with the sponsor... i have more click trough that before, more command but it seem that now, each credit card number are false  ... this have begin directly after the first time i have critic the method of work from my sponsor  ...

Now, i am waiting for the second step... i have around 600 page view from 75 unique IP day... when it will be 1000 pageview or 100 unique IP, i start the step two... Stop the publicity from other marriage agency and start the publicity from side service... like electronic translator, book, tourist agency, lawer, human traduction, gift... since i have not these service and that several visitor ask about them... i am searching new sponsor... i can earn between 20% and 30% from the money spend by my visitor...

Now, some go say that i use a lot of time for my site and that i am not pay for these time... since my site is little, i can make all myself... a new ads ask me around 5 minutes work ... if i use 30 minutes day, it is a lot... these forum take more time that my site ...

And why copy a website... myself, i have make all the code... some script was more complex to create but it make my life easy now... when a women or men submit a ads, i receive via e-mail the html code needed to past in her page... only need to resample the photo with photoshop ( again a script )... some running marriage agency have a fully automatic site... no work needed, only count the big $$$ who are coming... if you know nothing, you can find several free program on the internet who help you to build a website...

If anyone start so site, contact me... i will be happy to place a link on my own site... what about a network of little free site... with time, it will be maybe the end of the big agency...

PS : For newbies... if you find a interesting woman on a site but you need to pay for the contact information, make first a search on google with her name of other info like birthdate... google index all my page each 2 week... maybe me of other free place have the same lady... why pay for contact when you can have it for free... without agency in the way... if the lady seem to be interesting after first contact, you can always use the original agency for other service like gift or translation....

PSS : So now, everybody know my "business plan"... i am free but i don't loose money... i plan to earn more money but not with the dating business... with the side service... i have make it in 1998 and it was good working... with only 1 hours work evening i was able to earn a lot of money... for example, my result from my first love-from-russia ... they are cash after remove of expense :

April to December 98 : 0$, 45$, 742$, 105$, 393$, 742$, 1116$, 2343$, 5028$

January 99 : 13782$

February 99 : i stop the site... i have find my first wife and earn enough money for pay my marriage... i have not cancel the site, only stop the new ads and he slowly dead from himself... until the end of domain name in April : from feb to april : 6271$, 2241$, 751$

Now, all is more slow since the bunch of agency... previously, i was working with russian friend... one who work in post office in siberia, one who was responsible of computer at the university of Lipetsk, one ukrainian club of woman, one woman magazine who publish ads from men for free and place my publicity...

But my new girlfriend will make her business in this, so maybe my site will never dead... actualy, she wish transform his beauty salon in Minsk and add some computer... it seem that several of the client of beauty salon have interest in foreign marriage... i have already two collaborator in Ukraine... a internet club from Krivog roy... woman pay for the time they use internet, for print or scan photo... recently, he have buy a digital camera...

Now everybody is in holiday, and before it was me... i am waiting a new rush of woman around september... winter month are the best...

Now, that you know how much a amateur like me can earn with a minimal work, imagine how much earn big agency... yes, they have more expense... but what about the income, about address buy 1000 time... or more...

Ok, it is enough for these "off-topic"... if someone have more question, thet can PM me...

 

[Bruce]

Why try to silence agency owners?   The obvious answer is easy:  Because their motivations for posting will always be questioned.  

However, I think it is really fascinating for guys contemplating a trip to Russia to see how agency owners think and what the agency owners profess their true motivations to be prior to using or not using an agency. 

For the people out there who are initially lost (do not know what to do or how to start) an agency could be extremely helpful. 

For the guy who has limited time to travel an agency could be extremely helpful. 

Now what I believe the true question is:  Why does the Soviet RWG want to silence agency owners?  Again the answer is on the surface obvious:  Because when owners fight with each other it makes both of them look bad and indirectly makes all agency owners and their agencies look bad.   Since sites like the Soviet RWG are bought and paid for by agency owners they need a site that is universally agency friendly, so sugar coated criticism free trip reports from hood-winked newbies supporting the great service from X, Y, Z agencies helps their over all business.  They know that any negativity will bring them down.  Neutral or more importantly positive comments will bring them up.  Since the Soviet RWG sanitizes the negative comments, in time they will get a substantial data-base of agency friendly comments and reports.  That is why I believe the only term for this information controlling site to enlighten the American newbie is Soviet RWG.  Anyone who speaks against the agencies, especially someone who picks apart the big tour group ripoff like myself is banned by the Soviet RWG.

The smartest thing any newbie can do is stay off the Soviet RWG.  This site, the RWD, is the site where a guy can turn for the straight poop, especially from guys who have been around the block.  We have alot of married guys on this site who have married a girl from Russia, Ukraine or somewhere else in the FSU using completely different methods. 

There are guys that have found a girl on vacation and had a successful marriage.  There are guys who found a girl while working in the FSU.  There are guys who used a combination of work and pleasure to find their wife.  There are guys like me who went to the FSU alot of times, using multiple agencies and multiple methods to find a wife - who ultimately did find a great wife for himself.  So newbie guy reading this post - you will definitely get the straight poop here and I urge you to take full advantage of guys posting, because it really is a great group with alot of helpful information.

Now back to Jack's question - should agency owners be silenced?  My final answer is no.   Agency owners have alot of experience in the FSU, they should know alot of girls honestly looking for Western guys and likewise guys looking for girls in the FSU.   They should know the motivations behind them.  They should be able to help good people meet.   From there it is up to the couple to sort things out.  

The situation within agencies constantly changes.  I have seen good agencies become completely dishonest within a few months time.  My take on agencies these days - the words "Good agency" is almost an oxymoron. 

I believe some agency owners like Jack and Marc Dayton sincerely want their clients to succeed and find ultimate happiness in their lives.  Do I agree with all of their methods, heck no - I did what worked best for me.  Every person has to find their own path.  Can an agency safely help one at least get started on that path in the FSU, most definitely. 

Now a little about tour groups.  Think of tour groups like strip miners who do not reclaim the land.   Tour groups go into a city, strip the wealth and move on leaving a whole bunch of hurt amongst the guys and especially the girls in the FSU.  A few clients probably get lucky in the process but most guys pay four or five times what they should, girls become disinchanted and the charlatan tour group has to move on to the next smaller city until years go by and the reputation they have left with the FSU city population is forgotten.   The guy who went on the tour - you are just paying their bills so Joe Blow tour owner has gold lined pockets.

Addresses - I believe they are a waste of your time and your money these days.  Why?  Chances are high you are writing a fictitious woman.  Even if the woman is real chances are you will not get along or even like each other in real life.  In the old days you could probably find real women to write.  These days the chances are slim barring a few agencies and people like Bruno who can really set up a fairly fail proof method to write "sincere" girls prior to meeting.  Here is the secret most agencies do not want you to know:  Meet the girl in real life and then write to cement your relationship.  

So, a good agency owner contributes to boards like this one immensely.  Unfortunately, their motivation will always be questioned.  Will I recommend a newbie give a call to Jack, Marc or both - of course, because if a guy is going to deal with an agency I want him to deal with an owner who I believe has his best interests at heart. 

 

 

Disclaimer:  The term "Soviet" in no way is mean't to impugn the former government of Russia but is mean't to play on the pre-conceived notiation the average American associates with the said term.

 

[BC]

I think this (and other) boards would do more good than harm by discouraging anyone even thinking about seeking a RW.

[corncrowe]

I think this (and other) boards would do more good than harm by discouraging anyone even thinking about seeking a RW.

Why is that?

Jon

[Bruno]

I think this (and other) boards would do more good than harm by discouraging anyone even thinking about seeking a RW.

Why discourage... only inform over the difficulty of the proces is enough... i know that RW are not easy woman but they are not the devil... you have good RW too...

Do you have some regret about your own R Wife ???

 

[RacerX]

Anyone who speaks against the agencies, especially someone who picks apart the big tour group ripoff like myself is banned by the Soviet RWG.

Will I recommend a newbie give a call to Jack, Marc or both - of course, because if a guy is going to deal with an agency I want him to deal with an owner who I believe has his best interests at heart.  

Bruce -

Now let me see if I understand this: you were banned from RWG solely for bad-mouthing agencies, but now you're on RWD, you recommend them??

[jb]

I think BC is referring back to the other thread:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=605&forum_id=4

I agree that finding your "soul mate" half way around the world is an extremely iffy proposition.  For the average seeker, this is further complicated or exacerbated by the limited amount of time and resources he can spend in the FSU. I also agree that agencies are far more inclined to put a positive spin on the process, certainly more than I would.  If newbies were not made aware of the difficulties then the agencies could more easily lead the lambs to slaughter.

This is not for everyone.  Very few men I know have the patience to see this thing through to the end.  I suggest you stick around these message boards for a year or two and keep track of all the newbies who show up excited and  gung-ho about RWs.  They've stumbled up on a MOB website and seen pictures of all the pretty girls.  They ask a ton of questions and are a general pain-in-the-ass for about 2 weeks until they figure out this isn't a way to achieve instant gratification with a beautiful girl.  Then we never hear from them again.   Just learning about the USBCIS will do that to all but the most resolute.

If agency owners can actually contribute to the serious learning process, I say let'em post away.  But the bickering, finger pointing, and whining about the unfairness of another agency, or the blatant and wholesale promotion of their own agency, is more than most of us want to have to deal with.

[BC]

Do you have some regret about your own R Wife ???

No Bruno, no regrets.. but remember I did not even know RW forums existed when we met and were engaged. I was only hunting immigration info when I ran across these sites.

Why discourage? Testosterone guided human missles may be fun to watch but rarely do they hit the mark. Casualties are too high. You have to admit it is quite a circus act at times.

Don't get me wrong.. I used to quack like a duck in formation too a while back.. Actually being married to a RW for a while changed that very quickly.

[Bruce]

Racer X - I was banned from the Soviet RWG for speaking out against the "big three" ripoff tour groups, and calling it plain and simple like I see it.

[Maxx]

I did not even know RW forums existed when we met and were engaged. I was only hunting immigration info when I ran across these sites.

Why discourage? Testosterone guided human missles may be fun to watch but rarely do they hit the mark. Casualties are too high. You have to admit it is quite a circus act at times.

 

You sure sound like me 3 - 4 years ago. I didn't know about these sites except for zany G-7 and Doc Stein's message boards when I was going through the K-Visa process and hunting for immigration info. Too much importance given on "how soon will she get here"? and not enough on "do I really want her here"?

Maxx

 

[Kevin]

Bruce,

I didn't know others were banned for commenting also.  What gets me upset is when you post using your real name or identify yourself you can get banned from RWG. But if you post using a false name and id such as in the case of my attackers even though I knew who they were they would just create a new id and continue there attacks.

All this does is promote the ideal that if you want to post something about your competitors then use a false name and email address then you won't get banned and you can get your competitor banned. 

In the past I have never used a false id or email address and identified myself on all postings. but the rules seem to be changing and hidden posters are getting more rights then poster who identify themselves. 

At least I can still post on this site and use my real name :dude:

Kevin Hayes
Agency Owner
http://www.khersongirls.com

[corncrowe]

What gets me upset is when you post using your real name or identify yourself you can get banned from RWG. But if you post using a false name and id such as in the case of my attackers even though I knew who they were they would just create a new id and continue there attacks.

Kevin,

This is innuendo, hearsay, and has no basis in fact.  These are the statements you always make.  The "hidden" attacker.  The person using a "false name" to discredit you.

BS.  My name is Jon Campbell and I think you are full of it...so, post some facts or just shut up!

Jon

[Jack]

Jon, you best stick to what you know. Kevin DOES have an e-mail from the individual named telling him what was about to happen, and it did.

Their is more going on here that I think your aware of. This competitor has stopped to a lot of things Jon.

[corncrowe]

Jon, you best stick to what you know. Kevin DOES have an e-mail from the individual named telling him what was about to happen, and it did.

Their is more going on here that I think your aware of. This competitor has stopped to a lot of things Jon.

Jack,

This is all fine, but there are way too many "ghosts" haunting Kevin's past.  I like fact, not supposition.  If someone claims that "unknown" people are keeping them from telling their side of the story then point them out.


Kevin didn't name any individual.  So "the e-mail from the individual named" is something new to me. 


I had another discussion today about "American military imperialism".  Just blanket statements without any fact to support what they are saying.

P.S.  This was from the once Managing Editor of FBIS.

Jon

[corncrowe]

Jon, you best stick to what you know. Kevin DOES have an e-mail from the individual named telling him what was about to happen, and it did.

Their is more going on here that I think your aware of. This competitor has stopped to a lot of things Jon.

Jack,

I think what we have here is what they call a "conflict of interest".  It would appear that you are trying to silence me while having a prior relationship with Kevin Hayes?

"Kherson Ukraine Marriage Agency
[size=-1]Kherson Ukraine Marriage Agency American Owned and Operated in Kherson,
Ukraine. ... We co-hosted this party with Jack Bragg group. ...
http://www.khersongirls.com/Party_29sept2004.htm - 34k - Supplemental Result [/size]

Party


What gives?  I wonder if this is something a responsible agency owner would attempt on an open forum?

Please explain your business relationship with Kevin so everyone on this forum knows the next time you tell them to mind their own business!

P.S.  Here's a hint:

Results 1 - 8 of about 48 for jack bragg khersongirls.

Now mind you this is just the search results.  Your actual results may vary.

Jon

[Jack]

Jon, I proudly work with Kevin. It is a pleasure working with honest and ethical agencies. And we have worked with each other for going on four years now Jon, where have you been?  Is this new to you? If we were trying to keep it quiet do you think it would be posted on the world wide web, it's pretty big you know.
 
You jumped on Kevin hollering "hearsay, innuendo, no basis for facts when this is just not true.  John Briar sent Kevin an e-mail saying essentially watch what I do to you tomorrow. When tomorrow came sure enough, on another Russian discussion board Kevin got hammered by a lot of new unknown's saying all sorts of nasty things. Kevin sent this e-mail from John Briar to the discussion board owner showing what was going on.
 
So Jon, as I said, you don't know what your talking about when you holler "hearsay, no basis for statements".

[corncrowe]

Jon, I proudly work with Kevin. It is a pleasure working with honest and ethical agencies. And we have worked with each other for going on four years now Jon, where have you been?  Is this new to you? If we were trying to keep it quiet do you think it would be posted on the world wide web, it's pretty big you know.
 
You jumped on Kevin hollering "hearsay, innuendo, no basis for facts when this is just not true.  John Briar sent Kevin an e-mail saying essentially watch what I do to you tomorrow. When tomorrow came sure enough, on another Russian discussion board Kevin got hammered by a lot of new unknown's saying all sorts of nasty things. Kevin sent this e-mail from John Briar to the discussion board owner showing what was going on.
 
So Jon, as I said, you don't know what your talking about when you holler "hearsay, no basis for statements".

Jack,

Nothing's changed except now you provide this board with a name, statement of some factual exchange, and and idea what Kevin is referring to.

So why didn't Kevin just come out and say this?  I stand by my original statement that Kevin offered no support for his statement!

Simple, easy to understand, and thanks for explaining your relationship with Kevin so we know where the wind blows.

P.S. Jack, I will continue to recommend "recently if you recall" potential clients to you because I believe you have integrity and do what's best for your clients.  But "never" tell me to mind my own business because until you define what "my business is" I suggest a little more tack!


Jon

[Spencer]

Hey Kevin, a simple question deserves a simple answer. 

1) How many times were you warned before your account was deactivated?

Spencer
RWGuide 

[Admin]

Hey Kevin, a simple question deserves a simple answer.

1) How many times were you warnedbefore your account was deactivated?

Spencer
RWGuide

Spencer,

There are quite a few members here who claim they are, or were, banned from RWG at one time or another.

RWD is NOT going to become a battlefield for you to air the dirty laundry from the RWG. There is enough to deal with that occurs right here, without dragging RWG's fights onto this board.

You can deal with your disagreements with Kevin - or anyone else - through PM or through email.

Keep it off the open board.

- Dan

[Jack]

Darn Dan, if he wants to talk about warnings I was going to ask him how many warnings I got! ( 0 ).  But your right, we don't need that crap here.

[Michelangelo]

Thanks Dan!  I have never been to RW guide and care to hear NOTHING about their members or problems...

[jb]

I'm not sure it's a good thing to allow the agency owners to "fight it out" here, or on any message board that is intended to provide factual information to prospective FSU travelers.

It serves no purpose and probably confuses most newbies.

In the years I've been hanging out on these boards I've read dozens of trip reports which indicate many agencies are solely profit motivated.  I understand business must make a profit to survive, but the best survival technique for any business is always good customer service.  Whenever a business owner embraces a policy of dishonesty, or adapts the attitude of forgetting the customer's needs once they have his money, then the agency is deserving of whatever bad things are reported in the trip reports.  The trip reporter's choice of words are reflective of the events as he suffered through and managed to try to salvage what he could of the vacation days wasted in some backwater town.  If he describes the trip as having been a "scam" or "rip-off", then the agency owner should be allowed to counter with his side of the story, but the notion that the customer is always right should be upper most in the ensuing discussion.

The same might be said about message boards, the inexperienced traveler gets an entirely wrong impression when nothing but "atta boy's" are given out to every numbskull idea that gets presented as fact.  This is the arena where Spencer and me most often got to cross purposes.  To be fair to Spencer, he did reactivate my account, but with the condition that I not post  in the beginner's section ever again.  I declined because this is the section where most of the disinformation comes from.  While I have no proof of it, in my mind I'm pretty sure Spencer got complaints from some of his advertisers about some of my comments.  So be it, I tend to call a spade a spade and I'm not one to mince words when I see an idiot spouting plain old dumb sh!t as factual truth.

A case in point is the recent brutal murder in California of Iryna Singerman.  I wonder if that situation might have been avoided if Mr. Singerman had been given a healthy dose of the clue bat before he decided to marry a prostitute 30 years his junior.  I don't know if he ever read a single message board before he swallowed every MOB agency myth and fantasy, but if he were a member of the RWG he would have been given nothing but encouragement and told to go right ahead.  Obviously he was a train wreck looking for a place to happen and nobody ever gave him a heads up.

I'd like to think that if he'd been a member of the RWD he'd have had the benefit of some sane and realistic thinking.






 

[PeeWee]

I'm not sure it's a good thing to allow the agency owners to "fight it out" here, or on any message board that is intended to provide factual information to prospective FSU travelers.

It serves no purpose and probably confuses most newbies.

In the years I've been hanging out on these boards I've read dozens of trip reports which indicate many agencies are solely profit motivated. I understand business must make a profit to survive, but the best survival technique for any business is always good customer service. Whenever a business owner embraces a policy of dishonesty, or adapts the attitude of forgetting the customer's needs once they have his money, then the agency is deserving of whatever bad things are reported in the trip reports. The trip reporter's choice of words are reflective of the events as he suffered through and managed to try to salvage what he could of the vacation days wasted in some backwater town. If he describes the trip as having been a "scam" or "rip-off", then the agency owner should be allowed to counter with his side of the story, but the notion that the customer is always right should be upper most in the ensuing discussion.

The same might be said about message boards, the inexperienced traveler gets an entirely wrong impression when nothing but "atta boy's" are given out to every numbskull idea that gets presented as fact. This is the arena where Spencer and me most often got to cross purposes. To be fair to Spencer, he did reactivate my account, but with the condition that I not post in the beginner's section ever again. I declined because this is the section where most of the disinformation comes from. While I have no proof of it, in my mind I'm pretty sure Spencer got complaints from some of his advertisers about some of my comments. So be it, I tend to call a spade a spade and I'm not one to mince words when I see an idiot spouting plain old dumb sh!t as factual truth.

A case in point is the recent brutal murder in California of Iryna Singerman. I wonder if that situation might have been avoided if Mr. Singerman had been given a health dose of the clue bat before he decided to marry a prostitute 30 years his junior. I don't know if he ever read a single message board before he swallowed every MOB agency myth and fantasy, but if he were a member of the RWG he would have been given nothing but encouragement and told to go right ahead. Obviously he was a train wreck looking for a place to happen and nobody ever gave him a heads up.

I'd like to think that if he'd been a member of the RWD he'd have had the benefit of some sane and realistic thinking.

I agree, jb, on all points. With that said, there must be a place for the agency to comment on subject matter because in many cases their experience is needed. It may not be so important to allow them to promote themselves on the forum because as a result of their responses to the questions asked they will be promoting themselves if they sign who they are at the bottom of their posting. It has to be important for the readership to know which agencies are reputable and which are not. Someone has to tell us about it.

I have not used an agency in my past 4 years. I did find one of 4 women that I have communicated with, the best one as it turns out, via the Internet. But I only got her address from them. From that point forward I used the telephone to call her. And I use a company in Phoenix that lists women's profiles but I use the service for sending flowers only. The agencies provide a valuable service and there has to be a way for the forum members to find and to know the good ones. This forum can help in that regard.

 

PeeWee