Black guy heading to Ukraine

[Makkin]

Hi,

  God and religion are an interesting point but what this comes down to is the facts of social norms and standards of not one country and culture but that of two or more yes?


  God made the different races for a reason or did he/she? What does the race of a person have to do with the accepted norms and standards of a country? Everything it seems in this case.


  The differences in culture alone is significant enough to make one wonder at times but if you add in race,religion and a host of other subjects then you ask for more explanations. Since the civil rights don't apply in other countries there will be no boycott in effect that would work and there will be no free civil rights lawyer who can go to the local courts to demand political correctness. The difference is simple in that you have no legal action groups who will help and force a certain group of people to think a certain way and thus you have to deal with the laws and the feelings of a country with it's own choices and opinions.

Makkin

[groovlstk]

Hi,

  God and religion are an interesting point but what this comes down to is the facts of social norms and standards of not one country and culture but that of two or more yes?

Makkin, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, are you saying interracial relationships are against social norms and standards in the US? If that's so, where do you live? This line of thought may represent your or your community's norms, but it's hardly representative of the US.

[mspanky]

 Age gap relationships and interracial relationships may not be the norm in some societies. But they happen. 40-50 years ago interracial relationships in the U.S. were frowned upon. But Obama is from an interracial marriage, so is Mariah Carey , Kidada Jones daughter of Quincy Jones, Sidney Portier married a white woman,Halley Berry ect. I'm just saying these marriages happened no matter what societies norms were. And interracial kids have been around forever.There will always be women attracted to what we may not consider "the norm"

  I know a very beautiful girl who happens to be Czech. She has been in this country 6 years and will only date black men. I was sort of shocked at first because it was the last thing I expected. But to each his or her own. Last I heard she had trapped her black boyfriend by getting pregnant. She's hoping he'll marry her as she is illegal in this country.

  For people who say the children in interracial unions will have a hard time I say bullocks. Most of the time they are better looking than the average population and have an easier time in life. If folks are so worried about kids being teased than ugly people should not have kids, people with big noses,short people ect. In other words very few people have a perfect life and will not get teased. Sure some interracial kids will get teased but I remember in school the kids who got teased the most were the ones who did not physically fit what people called "attractive".

[WmGO]

Some folks around here need to come down off their sanctimonious
politically correct high horse. Such political correctness is not the
subject of this thread. Rather, the realities of the FSU are.   

*************

 As for my question why does no one say there is a prejudice against Obese,old, ugly or bald men? about yourselves.

Speaking for myself I would not know as I am neither old nor fat
nor bald nor ugly.    Perhaps you are talking about yourself and
have some kind of crossover guilt complex as it relates to the black
guy. 

[BC]

I don't think that God had much to do with black or white. Our ancestors were all of the same race somewhere down the line. Adam and Eve were likely black.. so what... it's not even a chicken or egg, who came first argument IMHO.

I married a woman who is culturally and ethnically different from me.  She could as well have been yellow, brown, black, red, green or a beautiful mix of any or all.. In fact she is.. as am I.

Yes, we all have our personal preferences and that is ok, so lets leave it at that and not throw stones at each other's glass houses.

mspanky,

Is interesting that in the country I least expected society to accept interracial relationships, they seem to be accepted quite well.. care to guess which?

[LenaC]

TW1970, as you probably learned so far from this discussion, only your personal experience should allow you to form a particular opinion on the subject. It does not matter what negative or positive experiences others had, cause you can just have your own that would form your personal perspective. All though, keep in mind that generalisation exists for a reason. 
 Blues Fairy, I agree with your logic, all though theories' biggest challenge is practical implementation. Theoretically you are absolutely correct, practically, I am not sure. I guess you just tried to say that all opinions should be heard. True, but only few need to be considered. That is just my oppinion. Would you consider it?

[BC]

Some folks around here need to come down off their sanctimonious
politically correct high horse. Such political correctness is not the
subject of this thread. Rather, the realities of the FSU are.   

WmGO,

Fundamentally such discourse has little or nothing to do with PC.. believe it or not.

The proof is in the pudding..

Give me 10 or 20 kids from 0 to 5 years old, each of a different ethnic background and throw in a few from RU. Add a playground and I guarantee they will all get along quite well and have a great time together.  I've seen it time and time again.. enough to rule it absolute.

Yes, I am sure there are those in any country, including FSU that acquire, during their lives, ideals and thoughts that are quite different than those they were born with.  I'm also confident that TW and others know much better than you or I what challenges they face simply walking out their front door.

Such discussions are quite often a bit hypocritical considering that we whitey's are actually THE true minority on planet earth..  Maybe that is what drives many of our thoughts in the first place..

Nature puts us all on equal ground.  Our societal 'bubbles' create the differences you seem to describe, but I really believe TW has as good a chance (as small as any of us have) of finding ONE good woman somewhere on planet Earth, including FSU.

Heck.. he's probably even less apt to end up with a scammer or GCG... LOL!

[Makkin]

Grooveshtick..sp sorry,

  What I am saying is that Russia and Ukraine are independent countries unlike America who do not have to bow down and hear a civil court motion on affimative action as we do. They do not have a civil liberties section and the list goes on yes? Is this good? Yes it's good because this is what they choose and they have maintained the countries or areas for some 1000 years at least.
  Where I live is America or better known as the United States and we do have ways to enforce things with various measures. Hate crimes and civil action are but a few of the measures we will take against hate and also don't forget lawsuits and other actions too numerous to mention. Remember we are a land of lawyers who left wing subjication would have us all speak the same words and mime each others actions as if we all did mean what we said..lol
  It's legal to be anything you want in America so don't accuse me of anything other than what I "TELL" you I am friend. I am not inclined to share my views AGAIN as I've already made clear how I think and you really need to know how I think right?

Makkin

[groovlstk]

Grooveshtick..sp sorry,

  What I am saying is that Russia and Ukraine are independent countries unlike America who do not have to bow down and hear a civil court motion on affimative action as we do. They do not have a civil liberties section and the list goes on yes? Is this good? Yes it's good because this is what they choose and they have maintained the countries or areas for some 1000 years at least.
  Where I live is America or better known as the United States and we do have ways to enforce things with various measures. Hate crimes and civil action are but a few of the measures we will take against hate and also don't forget lawsuits and other actions too numerous to mention. Remember we are a land of lawyers who left wing subjication would have us all speak the same words and mime each others actions as if we all did mean what we said..lol
  It's legal to be anything you want in America so don't accuse me of anything other than what I "TELL" you I am friend. I am not inclined to share my views AGAIN as I've already made clear how I think and you really need to know how I think right?

Makkin

Makkin, I'd be willing to guess that both Bob and TW are not so foolish as to think they can sue someone or cry about civil rights violations while in Russia, even if their research on FSU attitudes to race was confined to reading this thread alone.

That said, what is it about their pursuit of Russian women that has your panties in a bunch?

[TW1970]

Apparently you cannot read - I didn't say anything about whether
black men should or shouldn't pursue white women - I only said it
is "odd" because it is a well known fact of American culture that there
is a shortage of good, decent, honorable, educated, responsible and
succesful black men in relation to the number of black women who fit the same description. That is why black men who fit that description can have their pick of the best black women in America. Of course, if the black man doesn't fit that description then this would not be true. Good luck in your pursuits........

Clearly you have a short term memory, were dropped repeatedly as a child, or cannot read. I posted more than ONCE I am not interested in dating Black women.  (Yeah I am sure you find it odd). So I could care less about the "litter" of black women in the USA in those terms. I do not know why this is so hard to understand especially given that this board is not for Black men seeking Black women. To suggest this repeatedly to me after it was discussed several times before by various other people is both annoying and conveys racist undertones.

[TW1970]

TW1970, as you probably learned so far from this discussion, only your personal experience should allow you to form a particular opinion on the subject. It does not matter what negative or positive experiences others had, cause you can just have your own that would form your personal perspective. All though, keep in mind that generalisation exists for a reason. 

LenaC; Before I posted on here, I had anticipated some hostility regarding minorities dating a woman from the FSU. However, some of the posts on here have been off the wall. Frankly, I never really understand why it should concern another person who someone chooses to date especially on a site like this one. At any rate, the responses have been numerous and I will try to keep my eyes and mind open while I am there.

[Admin]

LenaC; Before I posted on here, I had anticipated some hostility regarding minorities dating a woman from the FSU. However, some of the posts on here have been off the wall. Frankly, I never really understand why it should concern another person who someone chooses to date especially on a site like this one. At any rate, the responses have been numerous and I will try to keep my eyes and mind open while I am there.

TW,

I think my only post in this topic was to welcome you in post #3, and encourage you. What you have found is the diversity of opinion at RWD is unequalled. Some of it may come across as offensive, but most of it is IMO meant to be helpful.

Take the comments for whatever they are worth. Take aboard those that 'fit' your circumstances - discard those that don't. Accept that you are more educated for the exchange - even if some of that education is not comfortable.

Please continue to contribute and participate. We welcome the opportunity to learn about your experiences, and hope you will continue to be a productive member of our little anthill in the internet.

- Dan

[groovlstk]

LenaC; Before I posted on here, I had anticipated some hostility regarding minorities dating a woman from the FSU. However, some of the posts on here have been off the wall. Frankly, I never really understand why it should concern another person who someone chooses to date especially on a site like this one. At any rate, the responses have been numerous and I will try to keep my eyes and mind open while I am there.

TW, don't discount the majority of posts in this thread. Some may have issues with you for your race but I didn't read anything that I would label as misleading or fabricated. You will likely have challenges beyond what most others face in what is really a minefield even for those with every possible advantage.

Take note of this interesting quote from The Exile, although it's from an issue published 10 years ago and there has been change in that time:

Most Russians, when they visit the United States for the first time, inevitably make a frightened comment about how big black people are in America. The ones they're used to--mostly all students on public-exchange programs--are almost all ill-nourished, poorly dressed, and so accustomed to constant denigration (it's not uncommon for a Russian to call an African a monkey to his face) that, out of habit, they become bent and mute. Russia is a bad place to be black. And it's a terrible place to be black and poor, as most of Moscow's Africans are.

[Blues Fairy]

I guess you just tried to say that all opinions should be heard. True, but only few need to be considered. That is just my oppinion. Would you consider it?

Depends on your expertise in the subject matter. 
You are absolutely right that some opinions are more valuable than other.  However, in discussions about human relationships I will most likely rate a non-generalizing statement higher than a generalization, however well substantiated.

[I/O]

Is interesting that in the country I least expected society to accept interracial relationships, they seem to be accepted quite well.. care to guess which?

Israel?

TW: Don't let it all get under your skin, you'll find as many or more underinformed opinions in the far east. RWD doesn't have a mortgage on that. I'm betting if you're tough enough to let the rocks bounce off, ultimately you have as good of a chance as the next person of finding what (Whom) you seek, however, conversely, if a few half smart comments on RWD are seriously irritating (Up to you to decide if they are or not), then I'd urge you to reconsider your persuit.

Frankly I don't care who or what race you marry into, that is your choice, I wouldn't date a black woman either, but that is for completely bigoted reasons, however, some of the first questions many eastern women will ask you are "Why not one from your own country or why not one from your own race (Yes I noticed you are biracial) or why a Russian (Whatever country) woman?" Very often they will be a lot more "raw" in how they word their questions than posters on RWD are. Just something to consider.

The womenfolk and others can argue semantics regarding generalisations as long as they wish, personally I find the argument boring and I simply base my opinion on what I have noticed in the majority of eastern women I have met or spoken to. Is that all? Of course not, it is simply a sample of a couple of hundred people spread over a fairly broad area during the last 5 years. If that's worth anything to you in this persuit, so be it, if not, discard it.

I/O

[Misha]

...some of the first questions many eastern women will ask you are "Why not one from your own country or why not one from your own race (Yes I noticed you are biracial) or why a Russian (Whatever country) woman?"

And they wouldn't be asking the same questions to Americans and Australians and the other foreigners looking for Russian wives? They may not ask the question about race, but they can also ask why you are not looking for a woman from your own country.

[Makkin]

Groove,

  Your always wrong about me but it's your option to stereotype me as you wish because after all we do live in a free internet..lol

  So far I have given my opinions and so far you have thought more about my opinions than I have about yours(judgemental speculation) and in the end it's your opinion and mine and only a stubborn mentality would say.."Your opinion VERSUS mine?.

  Let me clarify a few items for you in hopes that you can assume to know more about me..lol Been to FSU four times and have dated more than three women on a second stage level. Never been married to an FSU lady but am now engaged. I have a limited knowledge of the women and culture and learn more as the days pass.

  On two seperate times while dating ladies in the FSU the topic of black men came up and both times the nuclear version of "N" was used and in a way that seemed as if it was the usually used word to descibe. In both cases I explained that it is better to refer to the "N" word as negro and both times they understood. Do I get any good points for doing this? I'm not seeking any but I thought I mention this. What I have noticed is that in the country they live it's pretty common to act as you wish and say what you will. Would they speak that way in our country?

Makkin

[BC]

Quote from: BC on Yesterday at 20:38:19

Is interesting that in the country I least expected society to accept interracial relationships, they seem to be accepted quite well.. care to guess which?

Israel?

Not quite... Germany.

[I/O]

And they wouldn't be asking the same questions to Americans and Australians and the other foreigners looking for Russian wives? They may not ask the question about race, but they can also ask why you are not looking for a woman from your own country.

All that is a given.

I/O

[TW1970]

On two seperate times while dating ladies in the FSU the topic of black men came up and both times the nuclear version of "N" was used and in a way that seemed as if it was the usually used word to descibe. In both cases I explained that it is better to refer to the "N" word as negro and both times they understood. What I have noticed is that in the country they live it's pretty common to act as you wish and say what you will. Would they speak that way in our country?

Makkin

This does not surprise me because that word has been used by people in other countries I have visited. Some were genuinely apologetic when I informed them that it's, um, not really the best way to identify someone.

I am speculating but as someone else pointed out on here there are a lot of Africans who visit the FSU for school. Of all of the places I have traveled/lived in, nobody has ever mistaken me for an African. (But Ukraine might be the first, lol) Anyway, if a person is a racist, then obviously any shade other than White is bad. But I am already spoken with a few women who sound sincere and open-minded so that gives me hope.   

[Misha]

But I am already spoken with a few women who sound sincere and open-minded so that gives me hope.   

Let's look at this simple fact: the most important destination for Russian women marrying a foreigner is Turkey! IIRC some 60,000+ women from Russia have married citizens of Turkey and the majority of these women would be ethnic Russians. If Russian women were not open-minded they would not be falling in love and marrying men from Turkey in such large numbers.

[catzenmouse]

It will be very interesting to hear about your trip and the impressions/reactions of others. Treat it like a vacation with options, get some "boots on the ground" time, and just have fun.

[groovlstk]

Groove,

  Your always wrong about me but it's your option to stereotype me as you wish because after all we do live in a free internet..lol

  So far I have given my opinions and so far you have thought more about my opinions than I have about yours(judgemental speculation) and in the end it's your opinion and mine and only a stubborn mentality would say.."Your opinion VERSUS mine?.

  Let me clarify a few items for you in hopes that you can assume to know more about me..lol Been to FSU four times and have dated more than three women on a second stage level. Never been married to an FSU lady but am now engaged. I have a limited knowledge of the women and culture and learn more as the days pass.

  On two seperate times while dating ladies in the FSU the topic of black men came up and both times the nuclear version of "N" was used and in a way that seemed as if it was the usually used word to descibe. In both cases I explained that it is better to refer to the "N" word as negro and both times they understood. Do I get any good points for doing this? I'm not seeking any but I thought I mention this. What I have noticed is that in the country they live it's pretty common to act as you wish and say what you will. Would they speak that way in our country?

Makkin

Makkin, I'm not disputing your experiences regarding race in the FSU, I'm sure you're being honest about it. That's not the issue here.

My entire issue with parts of this thread is that some have gone beyond offering TW advice and seem to be aggressively trying to discourage him from even trying, which to me seems to defeat the purpose of RWD. If TW knows the risks and potential problems going in and accepts it, it's his choice.

To that purpose, I can't help but see similarities to feminists who'd love to put as many obstacles as possible between Western men and Russian women (and have already put in one of the cornerstones with IMBRA).

I also think that if TW goes through with his plans to visit the FSU a clear and frank trip report would fill a huge hole in the knowledge base here.

PS: Congrats on your engagement.

[mspanky]

Let's look at this simple fact: the most important destination for Russian women marrying a foreigner is Turkey! IIRC some 60,000+ women from Russia have married citizens of Turkey and the majority of these women would be ethnic Russians. If Russian women were not open-minded they would not be falling in love and marrying men from Turkey in such large numbers.

 Many Turkish men are dark. TW is a mulatto. How is that any different? I think if he's a young good looking guy with a successful life, he'll have to fight them off.

  I agree. why are many people bringing in how Africans are treated? Middle Eastern look latins would be a far better comparison if he is mulatto.

 As far as the U.s has come when it comes to race we are more likely to accept someone who looks somewhat like ourselves than completely different. That's why Obama is making such an impact. Also Colon Powell . Minorities and whites can relate to them because they do not look much different than we do. Those men ,probably because of their unique coloring mix are more within our comfort zone..

[SANDRO43]

Also Colon Powell.

So named because he is/was a hard a$$ ?