Ask an Agency Owner.

[jb]

Yeah,,, Mozilla don't work so good here.

[Rvrwind]

Now if I could just figure how to “quote” someone, but be able to post below the quote, I would be a happy man.

First I'll address this question, LOL. I don't know if it will work for you but what I do is cut & paste the text that I wish quoted into the reply as I did here. I then highlight it & just click on the quotation marks above  and poof!! it puts it in the box & drops a cursor below so that I can reply to the quoted material outside the box. TFE Works for me but depending on your browser perhaps will not work for you.

Now to your other questions:

How should the owners eliminate the "bad" girls from their agency?

Well until we have proof that she is a "bad" girl it is not likely she will be removed. I can't speak for anybody else but in my situation, being a much smaller agency & intending to stay relatively small compared to others, I get to know the ladies. I get a feel for how serious they are & will remove them asap if I feel they are not prepared or ready to commit 100% to the program.(which reminds me:has anybody seen or heard from Soloman lately? One of my ladies wrote him & has recieved no reply & now she thinks I am inventing the men!!! Now there's a turnaround for you.) I also if a client complains about a ladies behavior (which hasn't happened yet but I am prepared for it) will call the lady in & address the problem & get her take on it. I have set up a system where I keep records of the men & women & complaints against either. This will not only help me weed out 'bad' women but 'bad' men as well.

What's the biggest mistake you've made in the business?

Charging to little for my services when the big agencies charge 10X what I do & still get the clients!!! Also, starting on a shoestring has not made it easy.

In a perfect world, what would the ideal agency be like and offer to their clients (without a consideration of time or money)?

There is no perfect world & no perfect agency although I strive to get as close as I can. I think a good agency will address clients concerns & questions in an honest & timely fashion & investigate any & all claims made by clients or prospective clients. Without refunding their money & paying them off to go away. I think an honest agency can solve any disputes to the clients satisfaction & still retain the client.

I think it behooves an agency to charge a reasonable amount for the services rendered without gouging the client & to give the services offered to the best of their abilities without making others pay for their mistakes. By that I simply mean that, I own the company, if my staff screws up it is incumbent upon me as the owner/manager to accept reasponsibility for their mistakes. I am the boss & the buck stops here!!! If my staff screws up then I was lax in their training & I should accept responsibility for that, not pass the blame to others for my failure to manage my company approprietly.

Many times I have seen big companies who work through affiliates (we all know who they are so no need to name them) blame any scamming & such on the affiliates. They have deliberatly set up the buisness in such a fashion that they themselves can never & will never be held responsible for the actions of the affiliates. This is wrong. In many cases they trained the affiliates how to achieve these ends & then when push comes to shove the affiliate becomes expendable so the parent company retains its good reputation. This in my opinion is crap. The parent company should be held accountable for every & all actions of their affiliates. They hired them & went into partnership with them & in doing so are responsible for their actions, no if &'s or buts.

Which brings me to another , sorry off topic comment, about devious tricks of agencies. The name change. There are two companies that I am aware of right at this very moment that are changing thier names or working through another name trying to deflect their bad reputation. A good trick if you can pull it off but devious non the less. I would post their names here but everytime I start blasting other agencies for some reason I end up being called the bad guy, even though I post only the facts & the truth & can back it up with proof I get attacked for starting an agency war. So what I suggest before you use any agency is check them out very well, because they could be nothing more than a wolf in sheeps clothing!!!

RVR-Canadia Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Bruno]

I would post their names here but everytime I start blasting other agencies for some reason I end up being called the bad guy, even though I post only the facts & the truth & can back it up with proof I get attacked for starting an agency war.

Richard, you are a lucky guy... usualy, when i open my big month against some agency pratice, i have other reaction :

- sending of virus

- full my mail box with scrap

- contact my ladies and advice them to quit my site

- block my ip on mail.ru ( no more able to contact ladies for a few days )

- ... and more ...

But same with all these problem, i cannot resist to open my big mouth

 

[Admin]

Photo is maybe using firefox which does not let you place comments below the edited quote (as I did here). Not 100% forefox compatible.

Hey guys, I use Opera - which has its roots in Mozilla just like Firefox. The board software developers are avid users of Firefox. As best I can tell, the ONLY feature that differs from Mozilla-based browsers and IE is that IE has a spell-check feature enabled that is unavailable with the other browsers.

Please provide me ANY details about "defects" you experience, so that I can report back and get those corrected. Prefer notification by PM or email.

- Dan

[Kevin]

I would have to agree with rvrwind some of us charge too little.  :>

As far as "bad girls". There are really two different groups of ladies that most people refer to as bad girls. Their are the professional scammers who join  agencies just for the money with no intentions of getting married and their are those who use an agency to date and find a husband but don't say no to offers of gifts (professional daters) during their search.

Typically with my agency we start by verifying the ladies name when they join the agency. (Copy of passport) and we try to get to know the lady personally.  There is no way we can tell what the ladies intention are going to be until they start writing and meeting the clients.  Every once in a while a lady will get though and try to scam or date, but they will not do it more then once.  We have a very strong anti-scam policy that remove the ladies if we get any justified complaints or she request gifts though the letter writing to someone they haven't meet.   Being a small agency we are able to control our local reputation and the bad ladies got the word to stay out.

Is there a perfect agency.  No and there never will be.  The reason is there is no way we can get to know the clients well enough to match them to the ladies that we can only know some what though our meetings with them and feedback from other meetings.  I have meet ladies that are the nicest ladies in the world in the office and a @##@ at home. At the same time I've spoken to clients that seem successful and well manner that show up at the office drunk and abusive.   All we can do is match the couples based on physical desires and let the personalities and chemistry do the rest.  The good news is we are often successful with multiple engagements every month.

An honest agency is going to allow you to verify that the ladies exist and give you honest feedback. If the lady isn't interested you are going to be told by my staff that she isn't. No sugar coating. But at the same time if a lady is interested we are going to do everything possible to get the two of you together.  Be careful of agencies that use models to bait there clients. If it sound too good to be true investigate it closely.

As far as money..  Again it is very expensive for an honest agency to operate and very profitable for a scam agency..   Be sure to compare prices when agency hunting but keep in mind that the agency that has a real office isn't going to have the same prices as someone who is working from home.  At the same time getting your money back from a scam agency that has no address is impossible. An honest agency is very concern about there reputation a scam agency just changes there name.  

Legit agencies tend to allow the use of credit cards more often then scam agencies.  Be careful of the cash only agencies. It isn't legal to accept western union in Ukraine/Russia for business usage.

Lastly. Research an agency before using them. Make sure they have the owners name and address on the web site.  Be careful of agencies that have no history on www.google.com or the different list.  Scam agencies typically change there names quite often to avoid there bad reputations.

Be careful of false recommendations or complaints. If the person sending the email doesn't want to identify himself I suggest deleting the email.  Often agencies will post under false name to promote there agency or attack there competitors.

As always I hope this helped.

Kevin Hayes
Agency owner.

[Admin]

If the person sending the email doesn't want to identify himself I suggest deleting the email. Often agencies will post under false name to promote there agency or attack there competitors.

I would add that this is always a pretty good indicator of the veracity of communication. One of the sad facts of the present internet is there are a HUGE number of people who seek only to cause tension and chaos.

Over the years, I have seen that those who feel they are able to hide behind a pseudonym and the relative anonymity of the internet, have a MUCH greater propensity to be trouble-makers. Obviously there are some with valid reasons to mask their identities and are still valuable contributors - so this is not an absolute - but it still does seem that pseudonyms and masked identities are good indicators that the material should be scrutinized closely.

Just FWIW

- Dan

[BC]

Over the years, I have seen that those who feel they are able to hide behind a pseudonym and the relative anonymity of the internet, have a MUCH greater propensity to be trouble-makers. Obviously there are some with valid reasons to mask their identities and are still valuable contributors - so this is not an absolute - but it still does seem that pseudonyms and masked identities are good indicators that the material should be scrutinized closely.

Just FWIW

- Dan

What!!!???  No faith in Zorro anymore??

LOL

[RacerX]

Thanks again guys, I think it has been very helpful to get such frank comments from you.



Now, I'm probably the last person to propose a "ideal" agency, but here is a wish list:

1.  They MUST know each girl personally, and ideally the girl was referred to them by someone they know and trust.

2.  See No. 1.  And as an addendum: they will almost certainly not use models or "pro-daters," since their screening criteria in 1. should have eliminated nearly all of them.

3.  They should allow, suggest, or at least tolerate independent interpreters.  [please, save me all the arguments why this is not a practical or good idea]

4.  They should offer, suggest, or at least tolerate the use of an outside consultant: a RW advisor or independent psychologist or marriage counselor.

5.  They will exhaustively interview the man and then develop a personal match service for him based on their experience and intuition.

6.  They will attempt to seek out clients who have the finances to adequately cover 3-5.  They will rarely need or resort to catalogs.

7.  They will not tolerate any rudeness, abuse, or gross inconsideration by EITHER the client or their girls.  The girls are easily monitored and controlled, but this policy means they will cut-off any guys who appear to be sex-tourists, or those who can't find a suitable match after 2-3 attempts.

8.  They should offer support services to the couple even after they have left the agency and marry.

There is probably a few others I have omitted, but I think this covers most of the important ones.

[Turboguy]

Good post Racer, well thought out.  I think if there are some things I disagree with you on it would be 5 and the last part of 7.

I think guys are too visual to effectivly have someone make matches for them.  In a perfect world we would not care about looks and want inner beauty, but it is not a perfect world and what is hot to one guy is not to another.

Cutting off someone who can't find their match after 2 or 3 attemps?  Gosh I would have been cut off decades ago.    You had some good thougts, I could see some matchmaking mixed with them choosing and I can see dropping someone who is hopeless, but 2 or 3 matches does not seem hopeless.

 

 

 

[RacerX]

turbo ~ on 5. I didn't mean they would only develop ONE match for you, no quite the contrary, they would suggest 3-6 girls, and if you found none of them suitable they would go back and find some more.

Here's the rub with a guy finding his own match, and I've said it crudely before: unless you are Russian fluent and have lived there for many years, you honestly won't be able to tell the difference from a nun or prostitute, unless she wants you to.

The 3 strikes and you're out is a way of protecting the girls, the guy, if he has been so unlucky can just start anew at another agency.  And, the reason for protecting the girls is so that the agency can be stocked with only the finest due to it's stellar reputation.

[BC]

I think that an interested guy should deposit a 10k USD non refundable amount with a trust lawyer, payable upon marriage.  The agency where the woman he marries was registered gets the prize.  The client can frequent any agency he wants to that agrees to provide their services to him for free. Lodging and travel costs excluded.  If the client gives up searching, meets a girl on the street or expires prior to finding a woman the money is distributed equally between all the agencies that provided him their free services..

Whatcha think?

:D

[andrewfi]

There is no single 'best' agency, just as there is no single 'best' burger or pizza. At the end of the day an agency, if it is to serve all its clients as well possible, as to have a fairly broad range of services and to cater for a wide range of clients with varying needs, motivations and aspirations.

In the end, all that one can do, as a customer, is to find an agency that is generally fairly well regarded and that offers customers a range of services and a corporate ethos that matches their own requirements.

If the goal of the customer is to meet a life partner then finding an agency that also makes that its goal and suits word to deed is not a bad start. The business is a mucky one, full of deception and lies from all parties - if the goal, at least, is agreed and clear, then perhaps the rest can be accomplished despite the machinations of all those who do not share that goal and those that do share the goal, but want to take a profitable detour or two along the way!

[Bruno]

I would have to agree with rvrwind some of us charge too little.  :>

[/url] 

Price are not really the problem... good agency with low price can survive if the bad agency dissappear... in so case, more customer for the good agency... unfortunaly, bad agency, because of scam, earn a lot of money... they can invest it in TV pub, ads in newspaper, in mass mailing, ... for earn more scam money... snowball effect...

[RacerX]

BC ~ I actually did a modified version of what you are suggestion when I first started this process in late 1992.  I had a RW whom I originally got to know though her translation services, contact all her agency friends in Russia.  I told them I would pay $3K upon an engagement and $2K upon marriage.  I didn't care what agency "came up with the goods" the reward would be paid promptly.  Russian agencies were just blossoming then, so it was a proposal that caught the eye of several smaller agencies.  It didn't work out for a number of reasons, but I think it's a good model even today.

[Bruno]

I told them I would pay $3K upon an engagement and $2K upon marriage.  I didn't care what agency "came up with the goods" the reward would be paid promptly.  Russian agencies were just blossoming then, so it was a proposal that caught the eye of several smaller agencies. 

Try with me and i kick your a$$... this method is like shooping, show not respect for the women... they are not goods !!!

This remember me some old pervert who have no wish to build a relation... only the wish that i send them some sexy women... maybe it is the real meaning of MOB ... men wish that we send lady like a good via post...

I think shocking people who put a price on a relation... a succeful relation is like "arts"... to much expensive for put a price... so keep it free for everybody... make money on side service only, not on the relation itself...

 

[Rvrwind]

1.  They MUST know each girl personally, and ideally the girl was referred to them by someone they know and trust.

Many of the ladies in my agency are friends of ours & those that We did not know prior to their joining were recommended by friends or by other ladies currently in our program. We do our best to get to know the ladies & what they are looking for in a man.

2.  See No. 1.  And as an addendum: they will almost certainly not use models or "pro-daters," since their screening criteria in 1. should have eliminated nearly all of them.

Agreed. When a woman comes to join our program the first thing that happens is we check her pasport to verify her name & that if she is divorced & the passport is stamped. She is then given a pamphlet to read before she is permited to fill out a registration form. The pamphlet explains the rules & requirements of our agency, what we expect from them as clients & what they in turn should expect & recieve from us. After she reads this if she has any questions we address them immediately before she registars. I make sure that they understand that they are not getting a free photo shoot nor are they in some beauty contest. I also make sure they understand all the rules & requirements laid out & if at any time they breach them they will be removed from our program. If I accepted every woman that walked through the door, believe me I would at this point have a lot more women in my program, but I screen them well & those who don't like the rules, don't join.

3.  They should allow, suggest, or at least tolerate independent interpreters.  [please, save me all the arguments why this is not a practical or good idea]

Unfortunately I will indeed argue this point. Because you are dealing with an honest agency this should not be a problem for you. The agency is not going to use their Terps to undermine your relationship. The reason I am against this for the most part is I have Terps on staff who expect to work & get paid, if that doesn't happen how long will it take for them to move on & I am unable to get Terps when I need them. Not only that but due to the lower amounts for other things I charge for I must make a few$'s off my Interpreter fee's to make up for it. I don't have a problem with it if you are willing to pay me what I would lose by you using an outside interpreter  while you are seeing a woman in my program. I charge the minimal amounts possible to keep the doors open & I know by saying this I seem like I am in it for the money, when in reality I only make enough to cover the bills. I myself havn't taken one dime out of the company for my own use, every penny I have made to date goes to paying the bills & the wages. If I truly was in it for the money I wouldn't bother being honest, because there doesn't seem to be a lot of money in that & judging by what I am seeing, being honest doesn't get you the respect or he referrals that it should either.

I know everybody tells me I need more women. Well the way I look at it is realisticaly. Whats better, a dozen or two real women with real intentions or 300 scammers, GCG's or pro daters? And in the end, you can only marry 1 anyway!!! I know I'm dilusional.

4.  They should offer, suggest, or at least tolerate the use of an outside consultant: a RW advisor or independent psychologist or marriage counselor.

As far as an outside consultant well thats up to you, that is a service I don't push nor do I make money from you using it, so you are quite welcome to use an outside source if you wish. I just referre you to them & all your dealings are direct with them.

5.  They will exhaustively interview the man and then develop a personal match service for him based on their experience and intuition.

This is impossible. I do the best I can but every person has different tastes & getting to know someone well through emails & phone calls is difficult but I do pick up on some things & can suggest when I think it is helpful. But there is nothing saying he will accept my suggestions.

6.  They will attempt to seek out clients who have the finances to adequately cover 3-5.  They will rarely need or resort to catalogs

I'm not sure what you are referring to here but I assume you mean if he has exshausted his list that then he must go through our catalogues in the offce. If so then I refere you to my previous answer. It is also difficult to find out about a mans financial situation as this is kept pretty confidential. I do do a google search on all my male clients however & it is surprising sometimes what turns up.

7.  They will not tolerate any rudeness, abuse, or gross inconsideration by EITHER the client or their girls.  The girls are easily monitored and controlled, but this policy means they will cut-off any guys who appear to be sex-tourists, or those who can't find a suitable match after 2-3 attempts.

I don't. If I get the feeling a guy is a sex tourist or he is dickin' my ladies around I will kick his ass out just as quickly as I will the ladies. Paying customer or not. I don't however put a trip limit on it, some uys just take longer than others to find that special lady. That in no way means he is a sex tourist. I can usually weed out these guys before they get on the plane, But if not it won't take me long after he gets here to figure it out. I will not tolerate crap from the men any more than I will from the women. I already have three names of men on my list that I have delt with in the past that are not welcome in my agency just because of the way they treat the women they date.

8.  They should offer support services to the couple even after they have left the agency and marry.

This I do offer, as much as is possible. I like to stay in contact with all those I have helped in the past just to see how things are progressing. There are two couples I have been involved with for sometime now that are members of this board. I have a member of this board in Russia as I write this who used only my airport service, didn't use anything else, the woman he met isn't even in our program. But I have emailed him twice since he left as he is still in Russa & then going to the Ukraine. I keep track of his progress because I know nobody else will & I want him to know that should he find himself in difficulty at anytime while he is here, we are here o help. Although he used very little of our service, I consider him to be my client until he is back in the US & I will monitor his progress. Thats what a good honest agency gets you. Personal service.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Admin]

1. They MUST know each girl personally, and ideally the girl was referred to them by someone they know and trust.

Many of the ladies in my agency are friends of ours & those that We did not know prior to their joining were recommended by friends or by other ladies currently in our program. We do our best to get to know the ladies & what they are looking for in a man.

3. They should allow, suggest, or at least tolerate independent interpreters. [please, save me all the arguments why this is not a practical or good idea]

Unfortunately I will indeed argue this point. Because you are dealing with an honest agency this should not be a problem for you. The agency is not going to use their Terps to undermine your relationship. The reason I am against this for the most part is I have Terps on staff who expect to work & get paid, if that doesn't happen how long will it take for them to move on & I am unable to get Terps when I need them. Not only that but due to the lower amounts for other things I charge for I must make a few$'s off my Interpreter fee's to make up for it. I don't have a problem with it if you are willing to pay me what I would lose by you using an outside interpreter while you are seeing a woman in my program. I charge the minimal amounts possible to keep the doors open & I know by saying this I seem like I am in it for the money, when in reality I only make enough to cover the bills. I myself havn't taken one dime out of the company for my own use, every penny I have made to date goes to paying the bills & the wages. If I truly was in it for the money I wouldn't bother being honest, because there doesn't seem to be a lot of money in that & judging by what I am seeing, being honest doesn't get you the respect or he referrals that it should either.

4. They should offer, suggest, or at least tolerate the use of an outside consultant: a RW advisor or independent psychologist or marriage counselor.

As far as an outside consultant well thats up to you, that is a service I don't push nor do I make money from you using it, so you are quite welcome to use an outside source if you wish. I just referre you to them & all your dealings are direct with them.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[/color]

I am NOT an agency owner, but since I know a few personally - both Ukrainians and Americans - and since I have some personal experience that I think is valid, I decided to chime in on a few points.

On point # 1 - Olya and I have plenty of Olya's friends from Kremenchug who have, from time to time, asked if Olya could set them up with someone in America. One of Olya's closest friends is successfully married to an American guy we introduced her to, and they live a short distance away in another suburb of Denver.

It is pretty easy to find friends - and friends of friends - who are interested in becoming involved in this process once they see (or hear) about a success or two. I think Richard's tact to start with women known to him and his wife, and then slowly branch out while continuing to get to know the ladies personally, is a great idea. Nothing eliminates the possibility of adding a scammer to the ranks - but this process will surely reduce the numbers substantially.

On point # 2 - this is an ageless argument. It seems there are many who just do not understand that - to run a business REQUIRES capital. If there is a service being offered, and that service represents a value to the user of the service, then that user MUST be prepared to pay something for the value he/she benefits from.

By way of example - I have the know-how and the equipment to change the oil in my car. I used to do it regularly. In the past several years, however, I take my car elsewhere and pay a service to do this for me. Why? Well - they have BETTER equipment - they offer broader services - they have MORE expertise and are able to identify things I am not - and they are faster at it. It costs me more than it used to - but I consider the value worth the costs.

Most people either willingly, or ignorantly, pay for services OFTEN - and the use of an agency is no different.

Yet there are some who believe that, because this service deals with matters of the heart - those services should be offered entirely free of charge. I applaud those, like Bruno, who provide terrific service and support and they do it for the mere gratification it offers them. These are people whose altruism and giving behavior is admirable - but most businesses are unable to continue with that business model.

For guys considering use of an agency, or not - how much time and effort will it take you to do things entirely on your own?? In my case, I was spending more than a quarter of my time in Ukraine year in and year out. I was there interacting with interpreters and travel agents and apartment owners and establishing business contacts that had nothing to do with MOB activities. Because of that, I naturally ran into women - and following my separation from my wife - I eventually met someone who became my wife - but my circumstances are not the norm. And for those who do not enjoy the benefits of infrastructure in the FSU, an honest agency can save time and money and make the process vastly more efficient. At least, that is my opinion in spite of the fact I did not use an agency myself.

BTW - for those who are unaware - MANY of my business contacts are now engaged, directly or indirectly, with Jack and FirstDream. Jack asked me, many years ago, if I knew some honest anad trustworthy people in Ukraine to work with him. I introduced him to Rostik (whose brother had worked for me for many years), Dmitri (who is not working with him now - having moved on to a position with the present Minister of Economy), Eugene in Crimea, Yuri in Lviv - and several others. Because a large part of Jack's infrastructure (in Ukraine) was based on my recommendations - and because I knew Jack's criterion for their selection, I have never hesitated to recommend Jack and FirstDream for his honesty and sincere intent to provide value to his clientele.

I see very similar intentions and behavior in Richard and feel certain he is among the honest ones.

Point # 4 is an interesting one. Third-party opinions. I know, personally, several professional psychologists and 'counselors' in Ukraine. I have seen a couple of them in action. My experience is that this simply complicates matters. Remember that you and the lady are already trying to cross the hurdles of: (a) language barrier - no matter how fluent her English or your Russian, there will still be language issues - guaranteed, (b) cultural differences, (c) lack of sufficient time together, and sometimes (d) age/generational differences. Now add a third (interpreter) and fourth (advisor) into that mix, and you have all the ingredients for chaos.

Look, the lady is going to be barraged with advice from others. She will be hearing from the agency people, her friends, her family, and anyone else who feels they have something to add. Your head will be swimming with (again) the agency contacts, people from the board whom you are in contact with, YOUR friends and family. There is no shortage of 'advice' being shared - and into the cacophony, yet another voice is added - and one who is supposedly an 'authority' but you have no idea what their training or experience really is.

I submit this is a recipe for disaster and at best will add nothing of value to the final outcome.

Well, these are simply my opinions on a few of the point raised in the topic. As I said, I am NOT an agency owner - but I thought my views may be of value to some.

FWIW

- Dan

[RacerX]

Bruno wrote: RacerX wrote: I told them I would pay $3K upon an engagement and $2K upon marriage.  I didn't care what agency "came up with the goods" the reward would be paid promptly.  Russian agencies were just blossoming then, so it was a proposal that caught the eye of several smaller agencies.
Try with me and i kick your a$$... this method is like shooping, show not respect for the women... they are not goods !!!

This remember me some old pervert who have no wish to build a relation... only the wish that i send them some sexy women... maybe it is the real meaning of MOB ... men wish that we send lady like a good via post...

I think shocking people who put a price on a relation... a succeful relation is like "arts"... to much expensive for put a price... so keep it free for everybody... make money on side service only, not on the relation itself...

Geez Bruno, I dunno what got you so perturbed: do you know the idiom, "it's like the pot called the kettle black?"  Let me see if I can reword this in a more PC fashion and leave off the humor.

Back in late 1992 the only agencies around where those displaying glamor catalogs of hundreds of ladies.  For me, shopping from a "Sears catalog" of hundreds of un-screened girls would be in my opinion a totally hit-or-miss proposition, and I wanted something better.

I had known a RW (my future "RW advisor") who had done some translating work for me earlier, and she had many contacts throughout the Soviet Union (sic).  But since these women were all unknown quantities, I asked my RW advisor to  contact as many of them as possible - and I knew that if an American dangled the prospect of some serious cash in front of them, it would get their attention.  These women all ran matchmaking services (they weren't called agencies back then), and they were instructed to cull the very best ladies they knew and send me the biographies and photos.  The prospect of making a good hunk of cash worked, and I got very nice responses from several of them.  I didn't offer to pay them for these initial steps, because quite frankly I didn't know any of them well enough to trust them.

Unfortunately, for business reasons I wasn't able to visit Russia that year, so things just dissolved away.

[RacerX]

Dan:
Point # 4 is an interesting one. Third-party opinions. I know, personally, several professional psychologists and 'counselors' in Ukraine. I have seen a couple of them in action. My experience is that this simply complicates matters. Remember that you and the lady are already trying to cross the hurdles of: (a) language barrier - no matter how fluent her English or your Russian, there will still be language issues - guaranteed, (b) cultural differences, (c) lack of sufficient time together, and sometimes (d) age/generational differences. Now add a third (interpreter) and fourth (advisor) into that mix, and you have all the ingredients for chaos.

Look, the lady is going to be barraged with advice from others. She will be hearing from the agency people, her friends, her family, and anyone else who feels they have something to add. Your head will be swimming with (again) the agency contacts, people from the board whom you are in contact with, YOUR friends and family. There is no shortage of 'advice' being shared - and into the cacophony, yet another voice is added - and one who is supposedly an 'authority' but you have no idea what their training or experience really is.

I submit this is a recipe for disaster and at best will add nothing of value to the final outcome.

Dan ~ I can't say I totally disagree with the notion that adding another's voice (that of your RW advisor) into the mix may increase the chaos level, but I think the benefits outweigh the inconvenience of doing so.

This is no job for amateurs: I think we previously addressed this before, it can't be a friend, your buddy's wife, or some unknown professional in Russia.  No, it has to be someone you have spoken with for hours and  someone who knows you maybe better than you know yourself.  It should be a RW who has many years of experience in the matchmaking business or one who deals with these issues professionally.

Fortunately, you had traveled throughout the FSU, had met many Russians, etc before you encountered your future wife.  This level of experience is not the norm for 99% of the guys who decide to use an agency, and they need someone to guide them through the process.  As you pointed out, they almost certainly have no knowledge of the language, even less of the culture, and will be proverbial "AM bulls in a RW china shop."

My wife laughingly adds, whenever I bring up the topic that she, or for that matter any RW could screw with the mind of virtually any guy who came over looking for a wife.  The scales are simply not balanced in the favor of unsuspecting guys who have few tools available to them for judging good from bad RW.  I'll offer this as proof: what would the comparative chance be of say a guy in his mid-40s, after visiting his penpal who lives elsewhere in the USA, deciding to marry her after just one visit - euphemistically known as a One Week Wonder?

A few words of intuitive guidance from a knowledgeable RW goes a long way in these relationships -IMO.

[BC]

This is no job for amateurs: I think we previously addressed this before, it can't be a friend, your buddy's wife, or some unknown professional in Russia.  No, it has to be someone you have spoken with for hours and  someone who knows you maybe better than you know yourself.  It should be a RW who has many years of experience in the matchmaking business or one who deals with this issues professionally.

 

Sounds like my wife.. I think she would be the only one that would have come close to these qualifications.

In the end there is really no one out there that will be able to figure things out except the two persons involved in the budding relationship.  A relationship must be able to stand on it's own and not on crutches.

[Bruno]

Yet there are some who believe that, because this service deals with matters of the heart - those services should be offered entirely free of charge. I applaud those, like Bruno, who provide terrific service and support and they do it for the mere gratification it offers them. These are people whose altruism and giving behavior is admirable - but most businesses are unable to continue with that business model.

First, my site is not make for stay working a long time... the day i find my own RW, i stop the site... all my income will be needed for my own future family...

My site allow women and men to make contact free of charge... but if they need service, it is not free... if you wish send gift or flower, each ads have a externe link... a independant business where you need open you wallet...

At the end of these year, i will add service for reservation of hotel of appartment worldwide... again a externe service who is not free... some other project are Russian CD ( muziek ), dating book, trip ( plane )...

My site is like a free newspaper where ads from externe service pay my expense ( partialy :? )... the fact that i use internet allow me to reduce the expensive when i compare to paper newspaper...

Google is free service for the usual user... but they are a business too... they earn money with pay publicity...

Same charity need money for survive... Red cross use a donation system and they are not fully free too...

 

 

[andrewfi]

The problem of having an 'advisor' in Russia is simply this: How is one going to find a person, in a small town, in Russia with the requisite experience, knowledge and attitude AND willing to do the work AND with knowledge of the American situation?

Such a person would not be likely found in small town Russia, but off in the big cities earning more money than most here would be willing to pay.

In the end, one has to make one's own choices. If one can not rely upon one's own judgement then one is gonna end up a cropper!

[Jack]

damn Andrew, some pretty good post's from you of late. I like this one and the one where you laid it on the line to Dave with Hot Russian Brides.

I am beginning to think Hockyguy (Bruce) might be right and that Dave is not go to reply to our questions or concerns from this board.  

[andrewfi]

To be fair to HRB, their MD has been posting on RWG.  I think he has gotten into a business that he does not understand and is dealing with people who are taking advantage of that lack of understanding.

I do not think he, or his guys, are bad guys but they do not understand the dynamic of the business. I also think that they are just now coming to realise how close to the start line they really are. If the boss has the will to continue they might do OK.

Frankly, I think with the resources they have been able to muster that if they realign their strategy they can make very good money indeed, but it will not come from selling tours to Russia or Ukraine, at any price.

If I were going to post in just one place, in his position, it would be RWG, the audience is much larger and more closely aligned with what the firm perceives to be its target market.

[Son of Clyde]

I have no questions for the agency owners except maybe to thank one agency owner for helping me find my wife. His name is Jehu Hand and I know very little about him. He posts sporatically on RWG and does his best to maintain a low profile. I believe he is an attorney. I did send him a letter of appreciation when I started the K1 process.

I should probably thank Doug Salem for recommending this excellent agency, Athena. I almost went on one of Jack's tours but I had discovered the Athena agency that Doug had also used (he even selected my wife as a possible match).

I just started purchasing addresses and I wrote my own letters translated to Russian. This is what attracted my wife, the fact that her letter was already translated.

I can not say enough good things about the good agencies.

I am sure Kevin's and Richard's agencies are good ones, I just did not have an opportunity to try them.

One question I have is if the agencies can be used just for translations and gifts?

Once we have found someone it is an advantage for the agency to also deliver gifts, make reservations for apartments or hotels and maybe transportation pick up and delivery at the airport.

If I were an agency owner, I would want to help the guys completely through the process from courtship to marriage. Maybe even help with visas.

Just my $.02.