A child from Russia is killed in the USA

[ScottinCrimea]

it does
http://ruspro.info/
www.ombudsman.gov.ru/dad05/dad_40/r05.doc
(I am sorry it's in Russian, but you asked for Russian articles),
 but will it make American parents stop killing adopted Russian children?
I mean many children are killed by their parents-alcoholics or emotionally unbalanced parents who didn't want to have children but they have to upbring them.. but in case with american families it sounds very strange as it's obvious that these people wanted to have children and they were ready to go to another country to adopt them, but why do they kill them?!
I mean there are  many people from different countries who adopt children from Russia but it looks like the only country where so many parents kill them is the USA...

Serebro, the highlighted points in your second post are what started the debatge and really pointed out your true motivation in posting the link.  Your later posts reemphasized your agenda. Don't throw out the "I was just providing information" crap. You wanted to bash America and you used a tragic story about a child's death as a tool.  Pretty pathetic.

[Serebro]

Scott, if you feel like you need to prove true it means that you realize the problem. :)I am glad about it.
BC

do you have me on ignore...

yes

[Misha]

gabaub, I spent a night discussing the same thing with Scott yesterday and now you repeat his posts.

You skipped my last post where I cite another Russian's opinion from the mail.ru discussion forum: not every Russian shares your opinion. Some are also wondering why the Russian media ignores the suffering of a great many children in Russia.

[ScottinCrimea]

Serebro,  I've grown tired of waiting to see if you have anything of benefit to contribute and it's obvious that no amount of reason, logic or facts will change the strange ideas in that silly little mind of yours, so I have nothing to offer you.  I've put you on my ignore list.  Please put me on yours.

[Serebro]

scott and gabaub,I don't see any point in discussing things with you, if people have nothing to offer and contribute to the discussion except  for "look at Russia"after more than 3 pages of the "discussion" and they are older than 16 it's pointless and boring, like speaking with my parrot whp repeats the same things no matter what I say to him ,if I could find smart and intelligent people I would definitely discuss the problem with them as I am doing now on another website.
Enjoy being blind patriots and admire your country. 

[Jet]

Serebro,

Now that I have had some spare time to go back and do a little research, there are some things I'd like to draw your attention to:

Defense attorney Edwin Wall argued for a lower bail of $100,000, noting that his client has no history of crime or violence.

Nor did either of the other two examples you cited early on. So, how does the US weed out people who *might* do something tragic in the future, if they have never done anything wrong in the past?

The obvious answer is to stop allowing them to adopt Russian children, but is this REALLY the best course of action? To get the answer, we must examine the impact such action would have on the children (we are all trying to protect the children aren't we?). So although statistic disagree, if we take the WORST statistic, it tells us that 14 Russian children have been killed by American adoptive parents, out of 43,000+ adoptions since 1991 (or a 0.0325% murder rate). This is clearly NOT an epidemic. Conversely, it has been reported by Kidsave, an international adoption advocacy group with an office in Moscow:

Success stories largely outnumber the deaths and almost anything is better than staying parentless. One in three former orphans in Russia is homeless and one in 10 commits suicide.

which equates to a 33% homeless rate and a 10% suicide rate - these numbers clearly fall into the catagory "epidemic".
or
14185 of those same 43,000 ending up homeless and 4299 Russians taking their own lives.

So, while any single death is regrettable, which would you prefer Serebro, 14 children killed or 4,299 children killing themselves?

BTW: Here people are generally considered innocent until proven guilty, and although this couple has been charged, they have not been convicted. The article you linked to offers OPINIONS from select people close to the case, none of us have heard any actual evidence, yet.

[Misha]

Enjoy being blind patriots and admire your country. 

LOL Serebro, I AM NOT AMERICAN! I believe that there is much that could be improved in the United States and there is much that could be improved in my country (Canada) as well. Being accused of blind patriotism by you, however, truly rings of the Russian proverb: "В чужом глазу соломину видеть, в своём — бревна не замечать." (Rough translation: in another's eye you see the wood chips, and in your own you do not notice the log.)

[Gator]

Jet,

Excellent analysis!

Adopting a child is not simple nor inexpensive.  My golfing friend said his daughter spent over $40,000.

On every Delta flight from Moscow, I have seen an American couple with their newly adopted baby.  One flight there were over 5 babies.  Some parents seemed a little perplexed about how to deal with the babies yet none exhibited any signs of frustration.  And these babies have not received much attention while in the orphangae, so their behavior is probably different at first from my experience with babies.  It takes a very committed person to undertake an adoption.

[Serebro]

LOL Serebro, I AM NOT AMERICAN! I believe that there is much that could be improved in the United States and there is much that could be improved in my country (Canada) as well. Being accused of blind patriotism by you, however, truly rings of the Russian proverb: "В чужом глазу соломину видеть, в своём — бревна не замечать." (Rough translation: in another's eye you see the wood chips, and in your own you do not notice the log.)

lol, gabaub, don't try using Russian proverbs if you arent's sure in translation, it's hard to put соломина into your eye and not to notice it as you will probably have no eye 

I notice бревна but it doesn't matter that I should avoid other people's соринки.
and your message had nothing new but another bragging version of "look at Russia" in order to show your "brilliant"  Russian.Try to be modest next time as you showed that your Russian is poor.


Jet

The obvious answer is to stop allowing them to adopt Russian children, but is this REALLY the best course of action?

Yes, my impression is that they should stop this process in the USA and let more people from Europeans countries where this level is low to do it.

[Misha]

lol, gabaub, don't try using Russian proverbs if you arent's sure in translation, it's hard to put соломина into your eye and not to notice it as you will probably have no eye 

I notice бревна but it doesn't matter that I should avoid other people's соринки.
and your message had nothing new but another bragging version of "look at Russia" in order to show your "brilliant"  Russian.Try to be modest next time as you showed that your Russian is poor.

Well, at least I try to understand Russia and I actually read the Russian media to get a Russian perspective. You have added a lot to my understanding of how the Russian media projects a certain image of the West and how ordinary Russians then understand and interpret that message. I have to thank you for that.

[Gator]

Jet  Yes, my impression is that they should stop this process in the USA and let more people from Europeans countries where this level is low to do it.

 

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

Why not practice birth control?

[KenC]

Jet

The obvious answer is to stop allowing them to adopt Russian children, but is this REALLY the best course of action?

JetYes, my impression is that they should stop this process in the USA and let more people from Europeans countries where this level is low to do it.

Serebro,
I am sure that there is enough Russian orphans available for the Europeans to adopt if they wanted them.  Quit looking at American benevolence as an evil gesture.  Would it be better to leave all those babies to grow up in your already overcrowded and underfunded orphanages?  Now you are not making any sense at all!  Your anti-American sentiments are blocking any logical thought process.
 :selfharm:
KenC

[Serebro]

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

Why not practice birth control?

Gator, children live in orphanages not ONLY because their parents didn't want them..some of them are seriously ill and their parents can't provide them with medical help or their parents die.

My friend's mom lived in an orphanage with her sister after their parents died and my cousin's wife lost her father when she was 4 and her mom when she was 8....

When about 3 years ago I worked with homeless children as a volunteer  and that included some social work with children who lived in internat-it's not actually an orphanage but it's the place where children live part time as their parents can't take care of them but they are alive and visit them from time to time and even take them home-I can't say that it was so terrible, I don't remember any child who looked like he starved or was beaten.

And as for us we me and some other students took them to the special centre and played games with them and also helped their teachers to bring children to circus or to different theatres or cinema and went on a hike, so those children definitely had choice, they could choose if they wanted to spend their time with us in the centre or not.


You find some scary online stories about terrible treatment of children in Russia and feel like you are saving them only by taking them from there to the USA. I have seen that system from inside and I knew people who were  upbrought there and these people aren't bad at all and as for my cousin's wife they have been  happily married for 11 years by now and have 2 lovely girls of 10 and 9.

[Serebro]

I know this may sound strange for Americans who are sure that all children living in orphanages starve, are beaten, wear the same old dirty clothes for years, live in scary buildings and all commit suicide or become criminals after they leave the orphanage but in fact Russia has the system of providing these children with help even after they leave the orphanage, these children get "salary" and can enter the university "for free" without paying money or having entrance examinations like other children who have parents.

So I remember that my cousin told that his wife graduated a medical university(she didn't have any exams before she entered) and after she graduated she was given about 10.000 roubles, at that time an average salary in her native town was 1.000 roubles, at the age of 16 after she left the orphanage she also got a room from the government.

I also remember that a few years ago I spoke with a relative of my neighbour, she was about 15 and I asked her where she wanted to go after she left school and she named one of the most prestigeous places in the city, I smiled, because the girl didn't sound like she was an excellent student, when I asked my neighbour about it he told that she would enter it without exams as she didn't have parents but lived with her old grandmother.

These are the examples I personally know about, here I found some information of the things that children without parents are supposed to get from the government.
the link is also in Russian but it's an official document and I can't find the same one in English
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:yQo0WiEmYC8J:university.tversu.ru/social/benefits.doc+%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%8B+%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F+%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B9+%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82&hl=ru&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ru

I know it's not a lot but it's not as terrible as you are trying to make it look like.

Of course some children have bad genetics as their parents were ill people or alcoholics and they suffer from phychological problems, too, so they become criminals or commit suicide, but the government gives them a chance to get education they want to and provides them with free food and pays money to support them untill they are 23 yo.

[BillyB]

You find some scary online stories about terrible treatment of children in Russia and feel like you are saving them only by taking them from there to the USA.

Most children who don't have parents wish for parents in their life. Although you and others come to the orphanage to play with them, you are not there full time and can't love them as your very own so unfortunately there is a parent-child bond they may never come to know.

I think most people who adopt children actually want a child in their life. If they felt only a need to help the children, they would just donate money to improve their conditions and they're are plenty of organizations to donate money to for that purpose. It takes special people to love other people's children as their very own.

Once in a nice restaurant in Novosibirsk I saw an American couple, old enough to be grandparents, look lovingly towards two Russian children gobbling up the yummy food that was served. It was an experience those children would've never had in an orphanage. When in America, they may get to go on a regular basis to amusement parks, the zoo, camping, fishing and have parents that will tuck them in bed every night and help them grow. Some people just want children in their lives to love so it isn't all about saving kids but for personal reasons too. I don't think all Russian children in orphanages are starving and suffering and I'm sure there are good people taking care of them but I don't think they'll have it as good as if they had loving parents in their lives.

Europe has a low birth rate and the reason for that is because there is less of a demand for children so I don't know if Europeans are more open to adopting at this time.

Of course there are acts by adults that are despicable such as adopting children to be placed into slavery or place in the sex trade. In these cases, keeping children would be better than bringing them into those environments.

[55North]

Billy, I think it might be a matter of money.  It is costly enough for the average income intending parent to make the repeat extended visits to a country whose geography is vast, and deal with the bureaucracy therein without common language.

It costs me much more to fly, via London ( which equals hassle) to only Mineral'nye Vody, than it does to fly to Orlando, NYC or Toronto direct from my regional airport.  If one has to venture beyond the Moscow timezone, costs can become prohibitive.
 
In addition, there appears to be some stunning local 'administrative costs' as testified by the comments at the foot of this article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6335201.stm

I don't question Serebro's personal experience, but I would question that rules and regulations are followed to the letter throughout the Federation, and that sufficient budget is granted, and not misappropriated.
 
In Britain, since 1990, because of our location, we have tended to support charitable overland shipments of goods and medicine, rather than cash to the post-Communist world, particularly Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine.  A reason is that the whole business of adoption has become totally corrupt.  If it has been like this on the Black Sea littoral, I don't imagine matters would be any better in Siberia.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=424450&in_page_id=1879

[BC]

How many times have we heard about 'pick a puppy' or 'white knight' attitude when men go to FSU..  I can imagine that it is well within the realm of possibility that a similar attitude can exist with some parents seeking to adopt.

Two sets of laws are particularly relevant: 1) the laws of the child’s country of birth govern all activity in that country including the adoptability of individual children as well as the adoption of children in country in general; and 2) U.S. Federal immigration law governs the immigration of the child to the  United States  .

http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_441.html
Some interesting facts on this page btw including numbers of RU children adopted by USC's.

Seems that all facets of adoption is handled under RU laws, including acceptability standards of the parents.  As stated above, only immigration is handled on the US side.

The 'bar' doesn't seem that high for parent(s) wanting to adopt, but that is something RU would have to address..

[Serebro]

 
I don't question Serebro's personal experience, but I would question that rules and regulations are followed to the letter throughout the Federation, and that sufficient budget is granted, and not misappropriated.
 

I agree, so we can start a thread about budgeting russian orphanages and as for THIS thread I still offer to discuss why americans go on killing adopted children as the reason of murders has  nothing to do with budgeting Russian orphanages

[BC]

Here are the 'hoops' parents in the US must jump through in order to adopt a child in the US:

http://adopt.org/servlet/page?_pageid=56&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&_type=site&_fsiteid=34&_fid=2466&_fnavbarid=3138&_fnavbarsiteid=34&_fedit=0&_fmode=2&_fdisplaymode=1&_fcalledfrom=1&_fdisplayurl=

Not knowing much at all, at first sight it seems that adoption in RU may be much easier than in US..  No visits to the parents home, no in depth interviews, no post adoption visits etc etc.  Also you get to select a child in RU whereas in the US you can show interest, but the agency places the child with the family that has the best credentials.

Just FWIW

[KenC]

I agree, so we can start a thread about budgeting russian orphanages and as for THIS thread I still offer to discuss why americans go on killing adopted children as the reason of murders has  nothing to do with budgeting Russian orphanages

Why do Russians come to America to kill their children?
KenC

[Serebro]

http://adoption.about.com/od/adoptionrights/p/russiancases.htm

February 9, 1996 - David Polreis, Jr: age 2, of Greeley, Colorado was beaten to death. Over 90% of David's body was covered in cuts, which his adoptive mother, Renee Polreis, claimed was due to the boys severe RAD. Renee stated that David would hit himself with a wooden spoon. Husband, David Polreis, Sr. was out of town at time of attack and was not implicated. Rene Polreis was convicted of child abuse resulting in death and sentenced to 18 years in prison. David was adopted 6 months before his death.
November 25, 1998 - Logan Higginbotham: age 3, of Shelburne, Vermont died of massive head injuries. Adoptive mother Laura Higginbotham, stated that Logan fell and hit her head on the floor of an upstairs bedroom. It took 3 years for the medical examiner to determine whether the case was accidental or homicide. In 2004, Laura Higginbotham pled no contest to a charge of involuntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 1 year in prison. Logan was in US 7 months before her death.
October 31, 2000 - Viktor Matthey: age 6, of Hunterdon County, New Jersey died of cardiac arrest due to hyperthermia after adoptive parents Robert and Brenda Matthey locked him overnight in a damp unheated pump room. Viktor was also severely beaten by his adoptive father. Both parents are sentenced to 10 years for confining Viktor to a pump room, 10 years for excessive corporal punishment and 7 years for failing to provide medical care. The sentences run concurrently. Viktor was in the US 10 months before his death.
November 30, 2001 - Luke Evans: age 1.5 of Lowell, Indiana died of massive head injuries, shaken baby syndrome, and poor nutrition. Adoptive mother, Natalie Fabian Evans, stated that she couldn't wake Luke one morning and so placed him in a tub of water to "stimulate him" where she says he may have bumped his head on the tub. The authorities took a year to investigate the case. Evans is scheduled to stand trial for murder in October 2005. Luke was in the US 6 months before his death.
December 14, 2001 - Jacob Lindorff: age 5, of Gloucester Twp, New Jersey died of blunt force trauma to head. Also suffered from 2nd degree burns on feet, hemorrhaging in 1 eye; bruises, and seizures. Adoptive mother Heather Lindorff, was found guilty of 2nd degree endangering, aggravated assault and sentenced to 6 years. Adoptive father, James, sentenced to 4 years probation and 400 hours of community service for child abuse. Adoptive mother claimed that the injuries were accidents. Jacob was in the US 6 weeks before his death.
August 15, 2002 - Zachary Higier: age 2, of Braintree, Massachusetts, died of severe head trauma. Adoptive mother Natalia Higier, stated that he had fallen out of his crib or hit his head on the floor. She later admitted to tossing him into the air and he hit his head on the coffee table. Zachary sustained a bilateral skull fracture, strokes, brain swelling, and detached retinas. Natalia pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in jail with 18 months balance of sentence suspended for 4 years.
October 23, 2002 - Maria Bennett: age 2, of Lancaster, Ohio, died from shaken baby syndrome. Adoptive mother Susan Jane Bennett, said that she had tripped while carrying Maria and had dropped her. Medical evidence proved otherwise. Susan Bennett pled no contest to 1 count of reckless homicide and was sentenced to 3 years in prison. Maria was adopted 9 months before her death.
August 11, 2003 - Jessica Albina Hagmann: age 2, died from smothering. Adoptive mother, Patrice Hagmann claimed that she accidently killed Jessica while trying to stop her from having a tantrum. Patrice was sentenced to probation and to 2 suspended 5 year terms.
October 16, 2003 - Liam Thompson: age 3, of Columbus, Ohio, died from scalding and neglect. His adoptive father, Gary, placed him in a tub of 140 degree water. He recieved 2nd and 3rd degree burns. His LPN adoptive mother, Amy, neglected treatment for 2 days, then treated him with Tylenol and Vaseline. She took Liam to the hospital only after he went into respitory failure. Amy was sentence to 15 years for child endangering and involuntary manslaughter. Gary received 15-life for murder. Liam was adopted 5 months prior.
December 18, 2003 - Alex Pavlis: age 6, of Illinois, was beaten to death by his U.S. adopted mother, Irma, 6 weeks after his adoption from Russia. He was found to have 32 bruises, scars, and cuts. Irma had a difficult time with Alex. He banged his head on the walls, floors, and defecated and urinated on himself. Reports indicate that his injuries could have been self-inflicted. Irma was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

January 22, 2005 - Dennis Merryman:
age 8, born Dennis Uritsky, of Harford County, Maryland died after suffering cardiac arrest brought on by starvation. He weighed 37 pounds. Both parents, Samuel and Donna Merryman, were arrested and charged with manslaughter and first degree child abuse resulting in death and reckless endangerment. He was adopted almost 5 years ago.


July 2, 2005 - Nina Hilt:
age 2, of Wake Forest, North Carolina died after suffering several blows to her abdomen. Her adoptive mother, Peggy Hilt, In March 2006, Hilt plead guilty to second degree murder to avoid a charge of first degree murder. She said that she was frustrated due to the lack of bonding between Nina and herself. Hilt's lawyer said that she was an alcoholic and suffered from mental problems. May 25, 2006, Peggy Hilt was sentenced to 25 years in prison for the murder of her daughter. Nina was adopted in 2003.


March 7, 2008 - Nikolai Emelyantsev:
age 14 months, of Utah died from a skull fracture, the result of what is believed to be blunt force trauma to the head. The infant also suffered from a bruised face, head, knee and anus. Adoptive mom, Kimberly Emelyantsev, was charged with one count of first-degree murder. A felony charge of child abuse was filed a day later. Adoptive dad, Fyodor Emelyantsev, was also charged with one count of felony child abuse in the case of the 4-year-old child, another Russian adoptee.

Putting kids to the cold basement, hot tubes with boiling water, beating and starvation.

Don't American authorities control parents who adopt children?! Don't these parents have to be examined to check if they are mentally healthy?!

[Serebro]

Why do Russians come to America to kill their children?
KenC

because they marry american women

[55North]

If one consults a raft of child health statistics from UNICEF, Russia is rated at no. 125 with a per capita gross national income 3 times that of Ukraine, for instance, who is rated at no. 101 .
 
That would appear to indicate something very bad in wealth distribution and care for the child generally.  Surely not the behaviour of a modern, caring state.  We are talking about the unnecessary deaths of 10000s of children against 14, over how many years?  Statistically, it's almost irrelevant.  Take care of the children, and ban adoption by foreigners.  Simple.
 
BTW, I found statistics for child deaths through maltreatment, and through injury, but as they only exist for developed countries (and Mexico), they can be of no relevance to this discussion.

[55North]

Which is probably just as well!

[AugustD]

I still offer to discuss why americans go on killing adopted children...

Obviously a nationalist discriminating statement as inflammatory as saying a ridiculous comment like "Why do Russians continue to not care for their children and leave them to adoption".  Both statements are generalizing and put people into a defensive posture simply by the offensive remarks.

With that said, I think this is a very interesting discussion.  Certainly this crime is horrific but the question is how could it have been avoided AND who should govern the avoidance?  Is this a problem with other countries having lax adoption qualifications or is it a problem for the US government to address?  

Certainly I agree that Russia should raise their standards of allowance of international adoptions to stop such abuse of their children.  I am sure whatever regulations that Russia or any other country puts in place for qualification for adoption, the United States government would be happy to comply with.

Simply a real travesty and if it is an epidemic then I suggest Russia fix it because if those were kids born in my country, I would be demanding regulations to protect them.   Sadly there are sick monsters like this throughout the world and some of them are American citizens and they will continue to take advantage of lax international systems that they can "buy" their way around.

I really do not think anyone here needs to justify the motivations of the greater percentage of parents willing to adopt.  Doesn't matter if these are American parents or Australian parents or European parents.  

A sad story has been distorted into a nationalist issue and that is wrong.  I guess my answer would be I really do not know why Americans are killing children.  Hopefully the Russian government will take notice of this and make it next to impossible for international adoption.