Run for your lives....The propaganda war

[Gator]

Serebro,
That article not only bashed America, it had false information and omitted some relevant facts.  See the difference?

Serebro wrote,

It was not taken from Pravda [my mistake],and we have already discussed anti-american propaganda here arriving at a conclusion that the things which does exists is anti-russian propaganda but not anti-american one.

You do not see the difference!  All those hair coloring chemicals have affected your brain.    You should try flesh-colored  such as mine.  Good solar panels too. 

[55North]

has she proposed?!!!!!!
you should have said no, that you are a patriot and that you would never marry a commie
btw, do you know that all your ladies who are older than 26 have used to be pioneers :hairraising:

She's 44 tomorrow.  Does that mean she was in the Patriotic War?
 
BTW, communism 'knows no patriotism'.  (as in the 2nd International!). I can tell you weren't in the Young Pioneers, or the Komosol!
 
I asked her if she had any photos in YP 'uniform'.  I thought she might look cute in such.  Or am I pervert?

My 'typically English' father, born in what is now a massive dacha plot called Surrey (where your oligarchs have a ghetto), was, for a while, a member of the British Communist Party!  He was converted in the North African desert, as were many others, during the war.  He was also an idealistic teenager at the time (before teenagers were invented. )

[KenC]

Serebro,
You seem to be misunderstanding some information I posted.  I would like to clarify them.

KenC
Dear Ken, if you think that I am the example of a Russian patriot you are wrong
you haven't seen russian patriots yet then:)
russian patriot would have never come here and discuss things with you as s/he considers people foreigners here to be unworthy his/her attention.

for some reason on many Russian forums I have to defend the USA as there are too many patriots there, some of them have been to the USA, some have never been but they just don't like the west and they don't like the things that are connected with it, including all people who want to migrate, who admire western things and so on, so some people have no idea of what they are trying to discuss, but I consider myself to be a FAIR person so I try to be realistic and to judge things from my own experience.So very often I am one of the minority.. and I am always in a "contradictory mood".One day I remember I was called an "american whore" on a russian forum just because I tried to defend the system existing in the USA and I told them that I had been to the USa before, it's surprisind that I have this image of a"blind russian patriot"here

  I did not refer to you as a patriot in my post.

In your opinion your women criticizing the USA are a good example of what russian people are, but how many russian women have you met, I mean not women who are interested in finding a husband abroad (as most of these women have positive attitude towards the west and negative attitude towards russia and of course it affects their point of view) but just women...who marry RM, raise children and quite happy with their lives, they just don't want to migrate anywhere and just laugh when you offer them to find a husband abroad.How many women like that have you met?!How many talks have you had with them?!

  Your point is taken here as I have not met too many RW that fall into your category as defined here.  However, I did not try to say that Lena was a good example of the category you define, but of women moving to America.  I could only imagine that the RW in your example would be even more critical of America.  (But that is only a theory)

all you say is that.. you tried to be polite but even Lena (who wanted to find the way out )told bad things about Russia....and "it means that Russia is bad".

  You "miss the boat" here on a number of levels.  #1 Lena was not seeking a "way out" of Russia as she had a good life their and truly loves her Motherland.  But she fell in love with a foreigner and followed her heart.  If she had her way, we would be living in Russia.  #2 The "bad things" Lena spoke of (that I was referencing in my post)  were bad things in America, not Russia.

Go and  meet my collegues and friends who have been abroad, who are happily married and listen to their point of view... they are the majority.

I remember long time ago when your Lena went to Moscow and wrote her trip report I didn't know you well as at that moment I had just come to RWD but I remember that her report was just so pessimistic that I even asked you if she is a pessimist because it was so dirty, even WM don't write such dirty things about the FSU.

Serebro,
We have a saying here, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."  The longer a RW is away from her Motherland the more romantic her memory will be.  She will forget about all the shortcomings over time.  It is human nature.  Lena's last trip back was an eye opener for her to some positive things she had become used to here in America.  Yes, she sited some negative things about Russia, but you do need to know that her overall opinion upon her return to America was that Russia was still her preferred country.
KenC

[wxman]

...
does this apply to all Cubans or only to Cubans who live on Cuba itself?!

Applies to any Cuban arriving in the United States without immigrant visas. (Normally would be called an illegal if it was someone of a different nationality) The key is getting on US soil. If they are caught offshore on a raft, boat, etc, they are sent back. Smuggling of Cubans is big business.

[BillyB]

Ken,
  I'm probably lucky that very few things that come out of Natalia's mouth is bad or full of hate. She actually has a positive attitude about America, never said anything bad about it to me and not too judgmental on how other people in other cultures live their lives. If Natalia ever asks a question or wants my opinion on something and I think the answer may insult or upset her, I hold her hand, look her in the eye and calmly tell her my opinion and why I have them. Most of the time I win her over which is my objective instead of forcing my views on her. One can get more with sugar than sh!t.

I think holding hands with a lady during a disagreement lets her know that you're not letting it get personal. On a funny note I remember Bush inviting the King of Saudi Arabia to Texas to convince him to increase oil output which will lower prices and seeing a photo of Bush holding the King's hand walking through a field of flowers. The price of fuel did go down shortly after that. Gotta do what it takes to get results.

I know some men are upset with Serebro and Jazzy's style of debating and they have valid arguments. Serebro and Jazzy are young ladies and I'm not so sure I was any better than them when I was their age when it came to debating. They'll grow, learn, mature and someday they could be as good debaters as some of the older ladies here.

[Serebro]

Gator

Serebro wrote,
You do not see the difference!  All those hair coloring chemicals have affected your brain.    You should try flesh-colored  such as mine.  Good solar panels too. 

Ok, if you have an attitude like this and are going to continue writing your mean jokes about other people's look I will remove the picture

KenC
to be honest, your Lena's Moscow report was the first thing that really impressed me on this forum(after my personal stories of course).... and it didn't look good.

North, I have been a pioneer for 2 years ... If I lose 12-15 more kgs I will probably be able to put the uniform on.. if my mom finds it of course...

[55North]

Hmm... nice! 

I see you where at the centre of things, even then! 

From your avatar, I never thought you were old enough to have been a Pioneer. 

[Gator]

Ok, if you have an attitude like this and are going to continue writing your mean jokes about other people's look I will remove the picture

I apologize.      Please use the blonde avatar.   It is so becoming.  This one doesn't do it for me.

BTW, my 33-yo Moscow woman was never a pioneer.  Instead, she said that she was addressed as "citizen" and considered that reward enough. 

[Jet]

btw, do you know that all your ladies who are older than 26 have used to be pioneers :hairraising:

Yep, Liliya was head of the Young Pioneers in her town, and is quite proud of the fact 

Lil has had some critical things to say of Russia as well, but it is more a reflection of her dismay with a place she loves so dearly, than any kind of insult.

[I/O]

Lil has had some critical things to say of Russia as well, but it is more a reflection of her dismay with a place she loves so dearly, than any kind of insult.

Well said......!!! Although some of the girls here wouldn't like to conceed the point, IMO that is also in fact what the Western Men are doing.

For goodness sakes, if I hated Russia I would never of gone there in the first place. If I hated my country, I would leave. I can afford to in both cases. Doesn't stop me seeing and voicing at least some of the things that need fixing.

I completely agree with this, and it astonishes me so much how those people here can bash Russia in so many ways, they spit into the baket from where they drink, it is just very mean , double faced and low class.

Jazz: Nice play with words, but a total misunderstanding of what is happening here. Russians CANNOT accept constructive criticism. (Generally speaking) Just because someone points out something bad or less than acceptable, it doesn't mean it is being said to bash. More often it is being said to raise awareness and hopefully lead to change.

I find it somewhat sad when people try to dismiss criticism with "Oh we know how it is". They don't..!!! If they really did, they would get off their arse and try to do something about it. They don't, because they don't really know and they don't really know how much better it can be because they haven't seen better. They may have have sighted better, but they haven’t seen better. Applies to my country/people as much as anywhere else, America included.

What one is born into will seem normal, until one really looks around and sees something better. Even when one does see something better, at times that very same person will reject it because different seems wrong at first.   

This attitude that Russia is untouchable (Nobody should criticsie) leads me to think George W Bush is actually Russian. "Either you are with us or you are against us".

I/O 

[Makkin]

Sebreo,

  American women are fine.

  Russian women are fine.

  Ukrainian women are fine.

  Australian women are fine.

  English women are fine.

   To my belief whores are easy to spot and easy to deal with but it's only my opinion in this. When I visited Russia the whores I never saw and in Ukraine it was the same.
   A tour is just a tour and no matter what tour you take it's gonna be the same outcome in my opinion unless you seek a whore and I don't.

Makkin

[Serebro]

Jazz: Nice play with words, but a total misunderstanding of what is happening here. Russians CANNOT accept constructive criticism. (Generally speaking) Just because someone points out something bad or less than acceptable, it doesn't mean it is being said to bash. More often it is being said to raise awareness and hopefully lead to change.

When I started a thread about murders of Russian children in the USA most americans didn't accept that constructive criticism as well!!!!!!

they didn't take that as raising awareness and refused to lead to change...

they started posting links about Russia instead.....

though even my teacher taught me not to compare myself with  "the worst" when I try to achieve something but to look at the best!

[Serebro]

BTW, my 33-yo Moscow woman was never a pioneer. 

Gator, that's extremely suspicious!!!!
All Soviet children joined that children's party!
Some bad pioneers were kicked out for misbehaving but all were accepted....I joined the party in 1990 and my cousin who was 1 year younger joined it in 1991 and that was the last year...
that makes me think your gf was a german spy... :hairraising:

[55North]

Lil has had some critical things to say of Russia as well, but it is more a reflection of her dismay with a place she loves so dearly, than any kind of insult.

This is the sentiment I was trying to get across earlier.  I'll never love a nation, but I can certainly enjoy, or relate to aspects of a nation, and aspects of Russia will be the daily background to the rest of my life.  If I hated Russia, and had no interest, then the rest of my life will be truly wretched, and spent alone after divorce.

[I/O]

When I started a thread about murders of Russian children in the USA most americans didn't accept that constructive criticism as well!!!!!!

The subject you raised was a good one, but most Americans didn't accept "Your" criticism because it wasn't constructive. You never suggested any "Fixes" other than to eliminate Americans from the adoption of Russian children process. You didn't  identify any root causes other than the fact these people were American, which one was in fact Russian as I understand it.  There is a world of difference between destructive criticism and constructive criticism.

I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

Oi oi oi

   Jazz: Nice play with words, but a total misunderstanding of what is happening here. Russians CANNOT accept constructive criticism. (Generally speaking) Just because someone points out something bad or less than acceptable, it doesn't mean it is being said to bash. More often it is being said to raise awareness and hopefully lead to change.


       

you know what, am so tired of this constant instructions how to express my own opinion , how to talk to western people, never to offend them , better post 10 commandments of how to talk with an american or any other western person in order not to hurt their egos and their superior opinion, oh my what on earth then we can talk with the people about??? I mean really they can insult russian women as how they like , and none will even tell them anything, though Serebro and me and others need to watch their mouth , it looks like circus created for the men who are borred being in marriage with russians  .

It is great that a lot of people found heaven in America and it became their second motherland, that is only wonderful , but people need to know that it is hard to live there, not every person can adopt to its certain culture and certain moral values, it is just ridiculous to ask russian people  to at once aprove american lifestyle as Russians are really really different

you know it is also great that russian women adopted to american life and that they are not pretending to love the lifestyle and everything there, but to tell that any russian girl can live in America and will find it much more better than in Russia, it is nonsense.

Each person needs to follow the heart, he can not persuade himself or pretend to love certain things.

I personally very much like English culture and though almost everybody here was  telling me that UK is the same as America , I do not quite agree, it is different, though yes capitalistic but still different, it is more down to earth and they preserved moral values about how family should be , they are actually much more closer to russians than americans, that is to my mind.

I do not know wether it is all propaganda or whatever, in the end of the days, people who found their soulmate abroad have to understand how difficult it will be for them to overcome all those cultural differences , misunderstandings and other things, in some way they got much more complicated destiny than the others who found their love at home. So in any case they have to be tolerant in this or that way, and simply be silent about their point of view about americans, as you should always be aware that such people like KenC are hiding somewhere  in the bushes whenever you will go   , it is true 

[55North]

It's that European 'social/welfare' undercurrent, along with public transport.  I find Russian humour quite similar.  You will appreciate being very close to the delights of continental Europe. Being small, it's easier to grasp.

And today, it's snowing, just like it's not back home! 

[Gator]

Gator, that's extremely suspicious!!!!
All Soviet children joined that children's party!
Some bad pioneers were kicked out for misbehaving but all were accepted....I joined the party in 1990 and my cousin who was 1 year younger joined it in 1991 and that was the last year...
that makes me think your gf was a german spy... :hairraising:

You are correct - she was a Pioneer.  Evidently I misunderstood her.  I don't think she was a good Pioneer because all she remembered doing was wearing a red scarf.  I thought Pioneers would be like our Girl Scouts with weekly meetings and activities plus annual selling of cookies to raise money.

[55North]

The state paid and organised, unlike the Scouts.  And they were mixed gender.
 
So, no need to sell cookies.

[Serebro]

You are correct - she was a Pioneer.  Evidently I misunderstood her.  I don't think she was a good Pioneer because all she remembered doing was wearing a red scarf.  I thought Pioneers would be like our Girl Scouts with weekly meetings and activities plus annual selling of cookies to raise money.

selling cookies?!!!

[55North]

I think I was in the Boy Scouts for about one summer, aged 12, but as I lived in the country, and had been camping and foraging in nature since the age of 10, it didn't excite me.
 
What really got to me was the quasi-military stuff, and allegiance to God, Queen and country.  That is somewhere I won't go.

[wxman]

selling cookies?!!!

Yea, the Girl Scouts of America are the mafia arm of the cookie monster! Don't ever get cornered by them. They may act sweet, but in no time you will be out $20 and holding 2 boxes of cookies. 

[BradSTL]

another stupid ignorant remark
Let me guess....
 
because Moscow is full of illegal immigrants and workers from Ukraine/Tadzikistan/Uzbekistan who work there illegally?!

I can see no connection between checking documents of "young dark skinned workers" and forbidding citizens to move from one village/town to another.

Ignore all you wish... the remark has basis in REALITY.   Among the "illegal" immigrants were those from oblasts to the north and east of Moscow.  Nelegalov indicated many worked in service industries (restaurants, bars, etc.) who were caught in the sweeps and sent home.

They were NOT 'dark skinned'... they were *** WHITE *** !

Please... allievate my ignorance... EXPLAIN THIS!   

YOU LIVE THERE, FOR GOD'S SAKE!  Impress me!

[BradSTL]

When I started a thread about murders of Russian children in the USA most americans didn't accept that constructive criticism as well!!!!!!

Because no constructive criticism is offered.

What makes the murders of these children newsworthy beyond the local area where they lived?   What is so unusual about the murders that makes them any more dramatic than the murders of any other child in the USA?

You cite *** THIS *** as evidence of an anti-Russian sentiment among Americans?
Sounds like a load nashii-crap to me.

[BC]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html?hp

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/04/20/washington/20080419_RUMSFELD.html

interesting.