Interested in everyone's thoughts ...

[jen]

Good luck, uscfan, if you decide to go! St. Petersburg really is a beautiful city, especially in the summer (the cheerfulness in the air compared to winter is palpable)...

[Lee08]

Yes we do, and for him this move might make the most sense. I'm just trying to make him aware that if he is thinking of a possibility of finding a RW for marriage and bringing her back to the USA he must plan accordingly, long term. If he has a stable job now that earns him a decent income, and he's been filing his 1040 for the past 3 years it might make more sense to use a different method (mine or any other that works) of finding an RW instead of jeopardising his qualifying for the K-1 and affidavit of support by moving to St. Pete for a year.

Eduard,
There are ways around the minimum earning requirement.
KenC

I don't know if this will help, but from what I read the income tax return copy requirements are only one year with the option of giving three years, but you do have to indicate that you have filed for the last three years.

The income requirement for 2008 is $17,500.00 for a 2 person household in the 48 states. Slightly higher in Alaska and Hawaii.

I also verified this with Holmes & Lolly Immigration Attorneys in New York.

I was curious because I also heard 3 years worth of required income tax returns, but it is not true. I'm self-employed with lots of write-offs if you know what I'm talking about.
I wanted to know for sure before I got in too deep,and having to file a bunch of amended returns.

[Eduard]

I don't know if this will help, but from what I read the income tax return copy requirements are only one year with the option of giving three years, but you do have to indicate that you have filed for the last three years.

The income requirement for 2008 is $17,500.00 for a 2 person household in the 48 states. Slightly higher in Alaska and Hawaii.

I also verified this with Holmes & Lolly Immigration Attorneys in New York.

I was curious because I also heard 3 years worth of required income tax returns, but it is not true. I'm self-employed with lots of write-offs if you know what I'm talking about.
I wanted to know for sure before I got in too deep,and having to file a bunch of amended returns.

maybe something changed recently, but when I was filing they required 1040 for the past 3 years. But even if he only has to produce the last year's return he would have to leave his bride in Russia, come back to the US, find a job, work for a year, then file his tax return, only then apply for the K-1...we are talking 1.5-2 years before his beloved could come here...a lot can happen in 2 years...just a thought.
On the other hand it sounds like you are at a point in your life when you don't want to plan for anything, just go with the flow and have fun, live it...which also can be a healthy thing to do. Altimately you, FSUFAN are the only person who can make that decision. But at least you got some different advice here to give you food for thought.

[Phil dAmore]

Greeting USC

Where to begin? 

Having worked at or with all the major schools in this town over the past 6 years I can tell you straight up that some are good, some are bad and some are little more than a ticket to indentured servitude. I would be very interested in knowing what school you are considering.

How much is the cost of the EFL certification? Will you have an ITEFL or a CTEFL certificate? An ITEFL isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Sure they may provide an apartment but where and in what condition? It is possible to end up in a mouse-infested hostel that is far from your work.

Speaking of work locations will you have all of your classes at one place or will you be required to shuttle back and forth across town to complete them? While Petersburg does have an excellent public transit system that is still relatively cheap (metro is 17 rubles now) it does take time. You can  end up spending more time in transit than working.

What will be the age of your students?  How is your Russian? Small children require a lot of explanation of grammar concepts and can be disruptive because the last thing they want after a full day of school is more school. It requires a tremendous amount of patience.  Adults are much easier to work with because they are very motivated to learn and will pay closer attention... however they will grill you on every little point because to many Russians something is either 'right' or 'wrong' when it comes to... well, pretty much everything but that's a subject for another post.  When it comes to language they have a hard time understanding that there can be more than one correct way to express a point.

At all costs, by whatever means necessary avoid teaching classes of teenagers. Simply put the boys are a pain in the @ss, the girls are far too distracting and none of them want to do anything besides play with their damn mobile phones.

On to visas:  Be very, very careful here. If the school issues your invitation they basically own you and don't for a minute think that they won't use that leverage to get you to do all manner of unpleasant things such as teaching classes far from home or at odd times.  It's very common to end up with 'split shifts' where you teach a couple of classes in the early AM, then have a few hours off, then it's back to work for the evening. Some schools also arrange 'vacation trips' to places like Finland and Bulgaria which they may require you to attend.  Having done several of these I can tell you that the money they pay for the trip is nowhere near adequate to survive in these places unless you never leave the school and only eat their food.  Finland especially is very expensive (think 6 Euro for a McDonalds value meal!).  If you refuse to partake in these trips the chances that they will cancel you visa (or threaten to cancel your visa) are very high.  Like I said, with a work visa they own you.

The money isn't bad considering it will all be in cash (taxes? what are they?) but also understand that the dollar has been sliding like a monkey on a banana peel for about the past 2 years.  With your apartment paid for all you have to worry about is personal expenses.  Transportation will eat up more than you may think (hint: buy multi-use monthly passes for things like buses and metro, you will save a bit).  As for food, it depends on your taste but if you want to save some addtional money i would suggest you learn as many different ways of cooking chicken as possible. Food prices have spiked lately so that will eat into your budget (bad pun).

Have a favorite item from home?  You might want to bring a supply of it. Some things are simply not available here at any price so you either need to find a substitute or do without.

Also realize that since you would be here in the summer the possibility that you will have no hot water is very strong.  Since it's summer a lot of people go out of town so will they even have enough work for you? You mentioned 30 hours per week.  That's not bad if you can get it.  Understand that you will also need to do your lesson preparation which can easily double the time you spend working... and you don't get paid for lesson prep.

Private lessons are the most lucrative and rewarding but they take a while to get into. The good news is that you are coming at a time when a lot of native speakers (including me) will be leaving due to the new visa requirements.  In theory this should leave many more potential students for you. 

Your first lesson about life in Russia is that nothing works like you think it should and this includes the long-established doctrine of supply and demand. A lot depends on how much the directors of the school like you. Some schools pay a bonus for student retention or for working past a set number of hours. Expect to be paid only once a month.

Much has been written on the quality of life in Russia so I won't rehash it here but ultimately your success or failure depends on the individual. To live here requires a number of things, the main one being an ability to roll with whatever gets thrown at you. Don't expect life to be nice, neat, simple and organized. It's not. Russia is basically a place with a very thin veneer of civilization over a society that is in near anarchy. The government is a joke, interested only in the well-being of their friends (nothing new there) the judicial system is ineffective, and absolutely everything -and everyone- is for sale.

It's a real roller coaster ride and it's not for everyone, but if you have a strong sense of adventure, and a stronger sense of humor, the ability to think on your feet and not be bound by convention then you should do okay.

I wish you the greatest of luck and if you arrive before the middle of August, give me a call and I will show you around.

[Simoni]

 I'm self-employed with lots of write-offs if you know what I'm talking about.

I know a guy who failed last year to get a K-1 because of too low of income.  He tried the write-off angle, and it did not work.  He was then searching for someone to co-sign for him, and asked me.   I said "no," because my experience is that it takes a hell of a lot of money to support a russian woman.  The $20,000 threshold is much too low, in reality.

... they will grill you on every little point because to many Russians something is either 'right' or 'wrong' when it comes to... well, pretty much everything but that's a subject for another post. 

You got that right!  LOL

USC Fan--  I recommend you work hard in the US and sock away some big bucks.  Use that money to live in the FSU for a year.  As Phil pointed out, the teaching route is a tough one, and might demand all your time and leave you poor.  Better to go on your own dime and teach an occasional class as a hobby or way to meet girls.

[Eduard]

Russia is basically a place with a very thin veneer of civilization over a society that is in near anarchy. The government is a joke, interested only in the well-being of their friends (nothing new there) the judicial system is ineffective, and absolutely everything -and everyone- is for sale.

Phil, this is a beautiful representation!

[groovlstk]

The $20,000 threshold is much too low, in reality.You got that right!  LOL

Not to stray too far off topic, but Simoni's absolutely right. I see people on VisaJourney asking for advice on how to skirt the income threshold and I can't help but shake my head. This endeavor absolutely can not be done on the cheap, I'd say that unless a person has substantial holdings, the threshold should be at $60k annually and even that will require frugality. All well and good if she's willing and eager to work, but that's not likely to happen within the first few months.

[Eduard]

Not to stray too far off topic, but Simoni's absolutely right. I see people on VisaJourney asking for advice on how to skirt the income threshold and I can't help but shake my head. This endeavor absolutely can not be done on the cheap, I'd say that unless a person has substantial holdings, the threshold should be at $60k annually and even that will require frugality. All well and good if she's willing and eager to work, but that's not likely to happen within the first few months.

please allow me to disagree with this statement. I think much depends on each person's individual situation. For instance if a man owns a home, no mortgage payments could be saving him 15-30K a year, also self emplyed people take a lot of legal deductions that can lower their AGI to a very low number, way under the threshhold. the funny thing is that
a w-2 guy who doesn't take a "home-office' deduction but makes the same gross amount will show a lot higher AGI than a self-employed person. Also a lot depends on where you live. 60K a year goes a lot further in some parts of the country than say, in NYC

[Simoni]

Also a lot depends on where you live. 60K a year goes a lot further in some parts of the country than say, in NYC

Yeah, but we are talking under $20,000. for K-1 purposes.  That does not go very far anywhere. 

Groove is on target with his $60,000 figure, in my opinion.  At least for a decent life. 

My guess is that even in Mississippi you would not want to try this if you don't make 50 grand a year.

You have all kinds of unexpected costs the first few years. Dental can be $10,000 in itself. 

And if you do own your home, you still have taxes and insurance, which is pretty close to a house payment in itself.

[Lee08]

Yeah, but we are talking under $20,000. for K-1 purposes.  That does not go very far anywhere. 

Groove is on target with his $60,000 figure, in my opinion.  At least for a decent life. 

My guess is that even in Mississippi you would not want to try this if you don't make 50 grand a year.

You have all kinds of unexpected costs the first few years. Dental can be $10,000 in itself. 

And if you do own your home, you still have taxes and insurance, which is pretty close to a house payment in itself.

I have to disagree with this also. I am self-employed  and if you seen my income tax returns you would laugh. My AGI is way under the 17,500.00 requirement because of all the legal deductions I take, but in reality I make much, much, more. I live comfortably and I can support a woman with no problem. I don't know where you live but my taxes and insurance break down to approximately $150.00 per month for me.
50-60K a year where I live is considered a very good living for a family of 3-4 where only one spouse works.
When it comes time for me to bring a lady over, I have to file a return with a lot less deductions so I rise above the $17,500.00 requirement, or whatever it may be at the time.
If there are men here making a lot less than 50K a year, I don't think you should let someone else tell you that you can't make it. You know if you can do it or not by looking at your own budget. I have friends that make 25K a year, married with a child, and they live just fine simply because they don't have any bills other than just housing and simple utilities. It's very easy to eat up a 100K a year income if you spend it on things that are not really needed.

[Simoni]

You make several good points, Lee.

It is true that this is not a black and white issue.  One can live on a lot less than most Americans spend.

But it is also true that the standard of living has increased dramatically in the FSU the last few years.  The girls I dated there had a higher standard of living than what you described.  But I was dating city girls with good jobs.  They had money for nice clothes, money to have their hair and nails done, money for vacations, and money to go to movies and plays and to eat out.

So my guess is that a girl like that would be lowering her standard of living were she to marry an American with an AGI of less than $20,000.

Factoring that in, perhaps a man in that situation should search in smaller cities and villages in the FSU?    Cuz once you get used to a life filled with the "frillls" I mentioned above, a girl is not going to want to step down.

[groovlstk]

If there are men here making a lot less than 50K a year, I don't think you should let someone else tell you that you can't make it. You know if you can do it or not by looking at your own budget.

Lee, great post but at least in the example above, the devil is in the details. The biggest part of being able to stick to a budget is making sure that your girl has realistic expectations about the lifestyle you can provide before she arrives, and that's not easy. Of all the difficult parts in making a WM-FSU woman relationship work, I think this element is most often underestimated. But that's a discussion for another thread.

There are also a lot of miscellaneous expenses that are not easy to quantify beforehand. You can estimate USCIS fees, airline tix, English lessons, etc. quite well, but if a guy's on a really strict budget things like new clothes, monthly calling cards so that she can phone home, Russian language cable channels, etc. can easily tip the boat.

That said, I'd agree that no one has the right to tell a guy in a lower income bracket that he can't or won't make it, but this forum would have lost its purpose if experienced members didn't at least show him the writing on the wall.

[Misha]

But it is also true that the standard of living has increased dramatically in the FSU the last few years.  The girls I dated there had a higher standard of living than what you described.  But I was dating city girls with good jobs.  They had money for nice clothes, money to have their hair and nails done, money for vacations, and money to go to movies and plays and to eat out.

So my guess is that a girl like that would be lowering her standard of living were she to marry an American with an AGI of less than $20,000.

Factoring that in, perhaps a man in that situation should search in smaller cities and villages in the FSU?    Cuz once you get used to a life filled with the "frillls" I mentioned above, a girl is not going to want to step down.

True enough, however it all depends how you define standard of living. If a woman get married in Ukraine with a local man, her standard of living will likely change. If they have to buy an apartment, they will have to spend a lot of money there. Other expenses will also creep into the picture. When they have children, there will also be sacrifices to be made. The question is whether a woman is willing to exchange the standard of living she had as a single woman (often living at home with her parents) for a different standard of woman as a married woman. If she isn't, then I would say she is not ready for marriage and that is the case whether she is in Russia or the USA or Canada or in Europe.

[Simoni]

True enough, however it all depends how you define standard of living. If a woman get married in Ukraine with a local man, her standard of living will likely change. If they have to buy an apartment, they will have to spend a lot of money there. Other expenses will also creep into the picture. When they have children, there will also be sacrifices to be made. The question is whether a woman is willing to exchange the standard of living she had as a single woman (often living at home with her parents) for a different standard of woman as a married woman. If she isn't, then I would say she is not ready for marriage and that is the case whether she is in Russia or the USA or Canada or in Europe.

  Sorry, USC fan.

Good post, gabaub.   But one thing I can add is that things have changed rapidly in Ukraine.  I spent last summer there, and the amount of money my Marina's friends were spending and the things they were buying were similar to her friends here.   Clothes, jewelry, and more.

And the boyfriends (many of the girls live with boyfriends) have their own flat.  So in reality, when a girl in Ukraine moves in with a guy or gets married, she increases her standard of living, since the boyfriend or husband also has a nice salary.

That is why I'm saying that the girls standard of living might be less with an American guy who makes $20,000 than with a Ukrainian guy.

[Misha]

  Sorry, USC fan.

Good post, gabaub.   But one thing I can add is that things have changed rapidly in Ukraine.  I spent last summer there, and the amount of money my Marina's friends were spending and the things they were buying were similar to her friends here.   Clothes, jewelry, and more.

And the boyfriends (many of the girls live with boyfriends) have their own flat.  So in reality, when a girl in Ukraine moves in with a guy or gets married, she increases her standard of living, since the boyfriend or husband also has a nice salary.

I know nothing of Ukraine, but in Russia there is not guarantee that a young Russian man will have an apartment. Some do, many don't. Many of my wife's friends ended up moving in with their parents. There was one woman who did marry a man with an apartment, but they got divorced and she moved back with her parents a year later. I don't think these are the exceptions.

[Simoni]

That said, I'd agree that no one has the right to tell a guy in a lower income bracket that he can't or won't make it, but this forum would have lost its purpose if experienced members didn't at least show him the writing on the wall.

I feel the same way.  And that is why I add a word of caution.  Until you have lived together a couple of years together in the US, you really don't know how much it all costs, even on a budget.

Money can't buy  happiness, but a little money makes life a whole lot nicer...

[Simoni]

I know nothing of Ukraine, but in Russia there is not guarantee that a young Russian man will have an apartment. Some do, many don't. Many of my wife's friends ended up moving in with their parents.

What we know best is what we experience directly, and not simply read about.  In my experience, I'm thinking of 5 couples in Dnerp we spent time with last summer, and all were living in the guy's flat.   Their standard of living was very much middle class American in terms of the things they had and the things they did.  Now one thing that may be different--I'm not talking 22 year olds.  I'm talking early 30s and the time when income is rising.

[Makkin]

 Hairsplitting is not me but BillyB I just wanted to clear up a statement you made.

  You mentioned you made 1000 or so in the Army during the beginning of your stint and also mentioned "Boot Camp". The Marines have a boot camp but the Army does not have one. The Army has always been talked and stated as "Basic Training". In the Marines AIT is to do with advanced infantry training and in the Army AIT is your occupational school. The FYI for the Marines and Army is very different as you know..lol

Makkin

[Faux Pas]

You make several good points, Lee.

It is true that this is not a black and white issue.  One can live on a lot less than most Americans spend.

But it is also true that the standard of living has increased dramatically in the FSU the last few years.  The girls I dated there had a higher standard of living than what you described.  But I was dating city girls with good jobs.  They had money for nice clothes, money to have their hair and nails done, money for vacations, and money to go to movies and plays and to eat out.

So my guess is that a girl like that would be lowering her standard of living were she to marry an American with an AGI of less than $20,000.

Factoring that in, perhaps a man in that situation should search in smaller cities and villages in the FSU?    Cuz once you get used to a life filled with the "frillls" I mentioned above, a girl is not going to want to step down.

Simoni, wouldn't that really depend on the individual couple? Case in point: If they are both marrying for love, the standard of living most likely wouldn't matter much unless it was overly drastic. The direction of this thread is getting a bit disturbing. I understand women in general look to improve their station in life through marriage, but all do not. Many women still marry for love. The direction here seems to be putting a price tag and what is acceptable to a RW when it is all pure conjecture and up to the individual lady. Why I am commenting I am not sure as I don't have this problem but, from reading this and if my salary was in the 30-50k range I'd be very discouraged. Is that your intention?

[Misha]

Simoni, wouldn't that really depend on the individual couple? Case in point: If they are both marrying for love, the standard of living most likely wouldn't matter much unless it was overly drastic. The direction of this thread is getting a bit disturbing. I understand women in general look to improve their station in life through marriage, but all do not. Many women still marry for love.

I agree with Faux Pas. It depends on what the man thinks he has to offer. If he offers money, then he will attract a woman whose primary interest is financial. If he offers love, a good personality, intelligence, or a host of other positive attributes, then he will attract women who are interested in him as a person and not as a wallet or means of getting a new passport.

[Eduard]

if a person makes 30-50K a year, has his house paid for and doesn't have many expensive habits, it's enough to live a happy life. Also once she learns the language and aclimates, she can go to work as well and help out
The key to success here is to understand your woman's spending habits, how demanding she is and weather she is a down to earth person or a woman who thinks "I wonder if I could get him to buy me that fur coat" just to see if she can exercise control over her man. And there are plenty of women like that.
If you find a good, working woman from a smaller town, who is down to earth, she will be your partner in life and not a leach who will suck you dry and move on to the next guy. Regretfully I see many men falling for women who will use them and then dump them for a guy who will promise to buy her a new BMW and provide a luxurious lifestyle.
You really need to understand who you are marrying and not just look at nice a$$ and boobs. It would be very difficult to figure this out if you don't speak Russian but it's the key, especially if you are working with limited funds.

[Eduard]

I agree with Faux Pas. It depends on what the man thinks he has to offer. If he offers money, then he will attract a woman whose primary interest is financial. If he offers love, a good personality, intelligence, or a host of other positive attributes, then he will attract women who are interested in him as a person and not as a wallet or means of getting a new passport.

Gabaub, beautiful post! This is exactly how it is.

[Simoni]

I agree with Faux Pas. It depends on what the man thinks he has to offer. If he offers money, then he will attract a woman whose primary interest is financial. If he offers love, a good personality, intelligence, or a host of other positive attributes, then he will attract women who are interested in him as a person and not as a wallet or means of getting a new passport.

That is missing my point.   I'm just saying that this is an expensive venture, and there is a minimum income needed to support an international search and marriage.   For example, Marina goes home Christmas and summers.   Does not have to, but she loves home and wants to.  And I am able to make that possible for her.

Love had BETTER be a given.  So yes, the man better offer "love, a good personality, intelligence, or a host of other positive attributes."

Money can be a negative because it may attract gold-diggers.  Too much money, if you flash it, is as big a problem as too little money.

But back directly on point-- I'm saying that if you have to worry about the $17,000 income requirement, then you may not be looking in the right place for a wife.

Exceptions exist, but they are not the norm, in my opinion.

[Faux Pas]

That is missing my point.   I'm just saying that this is an expensive venture, and there is a minimum income needed to support an international search and marriage.   For example, Marina goes home Christmas and summers.   Does not have to, but she loves home and wants to.  And I am able to make that possible for her.

Love had BETTER be a given.  So yes, the man better offer "love, a good personality, intelligence, or a host of other positive attributes."

Money can be a negative because it may attract gold-diggers.  Too much money, if you flash it, is as big a problem as too little money.

But back directly on point-- I'm saying that if you have to worry about the $17,000 income requirement, then you may not be looking in the right place for a wife.

Exceptions exist, but they are not the norm, in my opinion.

Simoni,

I don't wish to hijack or drive this thread any more off topic but you and groovistk both stated and agreed that 60K is a threshold. I assume that because the discussion was yearly income tax declarations we are talking about a man's yearly salary. Or were you referring to the expense of the endeavor through the K-1 process? If so, I read it wrong. If not, whatever a salary requirement would be would be determined by his current standard of living I would think. Yours most likely is different from mine, or USCfan's or Lee's so the 60K requirement might be for your particular standard of living IYO, which has many factors involved. I don't know how you can make a generalization like that.

Please take this in the spirit of debate it is intended and not my intention to "call you out" but, looking for some clarification. I believe such a statement is discouraging and misleading to some who maybe be earnest and sincere in their search for a FSUW. If in fact you are referring to a yearly salary.

[KenC]

Simoni,

I don't wish to hijack or drive this thread any more off topic but you and groovistk both stated and agreed that 60K is a threshold. I assume that because the discussion was yearly income tax declarations we are talking about a man's yearly salary. Or were you referring to the expense of the endeavor through the K-1 process? If so, I read it wrong. If not, whatever a salary requirement would be would be determined by his current standard of living I would think. Yours most likely is different from mine, or USCfan's or Lee's so the 60K requirement might be for your particular standard of living IYO, which has many factors involved. I don't know how you can make a generalization like that.

Please take this in the spirit of debate it is intended and not my intention to "call you out" but, looking for some clarification. I believe such a statement is discouraging and misleading to some who maybe be earnest and sincere in their search for a FSUW. If in fact you are referring to a yearly salary.

Faux Pas,
With all due respect to Groov and Simoni, I do not think you can be that finite about the costs involved.  So much depends upon the area where you live and of course lifestyle too.  Cost of living is going to be different from Fremont, Indiana than it is is in Manhatten for example.  So use the $60K as a conversation starter because you can certainly get it done for less, but it may not be pretty.  Take a look at the FAQS section as I do believe good ol jb outline the costs rather well.
KenC