RW And Job Prospects in USA

[ambach123]

I am being asked this question by RW almost always.

What kind of work would I do in USA?

Assuming the RW has a college education and reasonably fluent in English to hold a conversation.

I want to be very realistic about it considering the current economy.

My impression is that regardless of her education, she would get a near minimum wage job, most likely in retail or hospitality. Office jobs would be difficult to come by.

My personal experience is that a lot of the girls from FSU are working here in many of the shops.

I see even AW born here, with college degrees in liberal arts earning 25 to 35 K at best.

 I would like to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms what she should expect. I don't believe in sugar coating what her real prospects are. I think it is much better if she knows what she is getting into before coming here.

Any comments from experienced people would be appreciated.

[Lily]

ambach123,

This question has no general approach, and should be considered for a particular person, given her skills, character, experience and proceeding from the point what valuable skills she could bring to the local market.

What of value she can proceed that the local employers or clients would be wiiling to pay for? What additional training, if any, would be desirable and feasible? That should be analyzed in details.

You are right that almost for every type of job she would need a fluent, accent free English. This is crucial for her adaptability, in any case.

[ambach123]

Lily, my impression is that regardless of the skills she has, the only job she can get is in retail or hospitality at or near minimum wages.

There would be nothing marketable beyond that she would have, if ever.

Unemployment here is high, even Americans can't find a job.

Of course those who have gone through the process would know better.

[Blues Fairy]

my impression is that regardless of the skills she has, the only job she can get is in retail or hospitality at or near minimum wages.

???
Let's hear more about her skills, because such blanket statements as the above make absolutely no sense.

[BillyB]

Getting a job here depends on how fast a RW could pick up on English. My attorney is Russian. I met a gynecologist at a hospital here who is Ukrainian. I met lots of young ladies who's studying in the medical field where they will likely find jobs since medical personnel are always needed unlike in the some liberal arts fields.

I've hired Ukrainian truck drivers who are 40-50 years old that speaks little English but they would have a hard time finding work because of their limited English skills. They have told me they've gone though 20 interviews before my company was the first to hire them.

How motivated a RW is will depend of if she's successful. Lot's of immigrants, no matter where they're from, find success in the USA. Also if she dresses well, conducts herself well and looks pretty, she will find a job easy. Many companies look for pretty faces and it's refreshing to see women who look like women at work.

[KenC]

It all depends upon her area of experience back home as to how quickly she can find a job in her field here.  Non medical technical or specialty areas will probably have little problems finding work.  Anything in the IT field or like Groov's wife was an interior designer will make an easy transition.  Although even Mrs. Groov's European design experiences might not play well in Peoria.  They were a great fit for Manhatten.

That being said, the location in America is a key factor here as well.  Lena's accent was not well received back in Michigan, but more acceptable here in California.  From Lena's experiences in the work environment I have to disagree with Billy's comment:

Also if she dresses well, conducts herself well and looks pretty, she will find a job easy. Many companies look for pretty faces and it's refreshing to see women who look like women at work.

  Any place that has women making the hiring decisions, extraordinary good looks and high fashion can work against the woman in question.  Jealousy maybe?  Or intimidation more likely.  (Billy you think too much like a man!) 
KenC

[BillyB]

Maybe some women who hire have something against younger more beautiful women but image is important to most companies and to have good looking women working there helps bring in the customers. Just look at how many guys go to espresso stands just because a cute woman is working there, not because the product they sell is fantastic.

[Misha]

You are right that almost for every type of job she would need a fluent, accent free English. This is crucial for her adaptability, in any case.

I agree with the need for fluent English. However, here in Canada the issue of accent is less troublesome. We have a lot of immigrants even in the smallest cities. An employer will overlook an accent if they have a good candidate.

[ambach123]

If possible, I would like to hear from experienced people who have brought RW here and whether she was able to find a well paying job.

I understand that medical field is a different story, there is a lot of demand in health care in USA. I mean general liberal arts or some other technical field.

I don't have any specific lady in mind except several of them, who have University degrees and  jobs in Ukraine. Many of them are employed in a field different than their education.

Yes, this is a blanket statmement, that is the point, that it does not matter what skills she has, her job prospect are dismal and limited to retail. She would be hired if she has something to offer that they can not find in Americans, and I don't know what that would be.

I would love to be proven wrong.

On the other hand if I went to Ukraine, I would be lucky to get a job even in retail and I have a Masters degree.

[KenC]

Maybe some women who hire have something against younger more beautiful women but image is important to most companies and to have good looking women working there helps bring in the customers. Just look at how many guys go to espresso stands just because a cute woman is working there, not because the product they sell is fantastic.

Billy,
I hear ya buddy, loud and clear.  But when a fat azzed AW with the hygiene of a cow is in charge of doing the hiring, it is a completely different story.

I will give you examples from Lena's experiences here with entry level retail jobs.  Back in Michigan Lena took a part time job with Godiva Chocolates in the mall.  Her boss was the gal I described above.  This beast gave Lena nothing but grief.  She was the typical bitter divorced woman that tasted way too many samples, if you know what I mean.  She was low class and only hired Lena because they were desperate for employees.  Fast forward to California.  Lena again took a part time job at Saks Fifth Avenue in the designer woman's clothes department.  Different level of people and a much better reception of Lena's qualities. 
KenC

[KenC]

I agree with the need for fluent English. However, here in Canada the issue of accent is less troublesome. We have a lot of immigrants even in the smallest cities. An employer will overlook an accent if they have a good candidate.

Lena's accent was a big negative in Michigan and a non issue here in Calfornia.
KenC

[Misha]

Lena's accent was a big negative in Michigan and a non issue here in Calfornia.
KenC

Interesting. Why do you think that is the case? Does Michigan attract a lot of immigrants? From what I have read, most immigrants in the United States tend be concentrated on both coasts (i.e. California and New York). You would think that Detroit or the large cities in or around Michigan would attract their share of immigrants as well.

[BillyB]

If possible, I would like to hear from experienced people who have brought RW here and whether she was able to find a well paying job.

I understand that medical field is a different story, there is a lot of demand in health care in USA. I mean general liberal arts or some other technical field.

Yes, this is a blanket statmement, that is the point, that it does not matter what skills she has, her job prospect are dismal and limited to retail. She would be hired if she has something to offer that they can not find in Americans, and I don't know what that would be.

I would love to be proven wrong.

jb's wife is a teacher. My ex Ukrainian wife who has many relatives here that only depended on themselves for support are making a life here just fine without an American husband for support. Besides the my RW attorney, I met a Russian male attorney. Many of my aunts are Asian and they are engineers making Boeing planes, writing up programs for cell phone functions, and making nuclear weapons.

ambach, your mind seems to be set that women immigrants can't make it here but if they learn English and get higher education and do well, they will make it. If you think an immigrant woman is going to come here with no American education and little knowledge of English and is only qualified to work retail, you're right! You can't expect to get something(a good job) for nothing. Any RW you talk to who wants to come here to work a white collar job needs to realize she's going to need to spend a few more years studying English and whatever field of work she wants to enter into. Nobody is going to hand her a high paying job unless she's qualified and speaks English well.

[KenC]

Interesting. Why do you think that is the case? Does Michigan attract a lot of immigrants? From what I have read, most immigrants in the United States tend be concentrated on both coasts (i.e. California and New York). You would think that Detroit or the large cities in or around Michigan would attract their share of immigrants as well.

Not as many as you think and I do believe it had a lot to do with where the accent was from.  For example, there are many new middle eastern immigrants in Michigan now but very few new from eastern Europe.  Except for the Red Wings of course because we had the famous "Red Line" back then!! (Federov, Larionov, Konstaninov, Koslov)  The attitude was kind of weird because there were many Polish immigrants attracted to the area years ago by the auto industry too.
KenC

[Misha]

Not as many as you think and I do believe it had a lot to do with where the accent was from. 

That is one way that Canada differs from the State IMHO. Though most immigrants are concentrated in large cities (Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver) you will still find very large numbers of immigrants (both recent and from several generations ago) in small cities and towns across the country.

[groovlstk]

Although even Mrs. Groov's European design experiences might not play well in Peoria.  They were a great fit for Manhatten.

Ken, my wife has a pretty low opinion of American interior design. She says that in Russia, her clients were very eager to have something their neighbors didn't have, something to make them feel unique, so she was able to use her full creative abilities. (Keep in mind her Moscow clients were wealthy people, not those living in community housing.) Her US clients are more conformist and want pretty much the same type of high-end kitchens as their neighbors have, with granite countertops, open design, and stainless steel appliances. She's still learning the competitive angle and how clients can be cheap, rotten SOBs (some of her early clients would ask for prints of her 3-d renderings before she realized they were cutting her firm out and handing the drawings to contractors who worked cheaper). So far, however, she's having a blast and whenever she sells a project we celebrate by eating out.

Also, like Lena, my wife's accent hasn't been a problem at all in our area; she's not fluent yet in English but due to the large # of immigrants here people are accustomed to working through language issues and don't bat an eye knowing she's Russian.

I originally thought my post was going to be a bit off topic but I think it's relevant to the discussion.

To the OP: Whatever you explain to the girls you write about working in the US, know that if you do marry an FSU woman and bring her here, you will be her best help in finding a job. You need to coach her on interview questions and manner, help her put together a good resume, and shield her from firms that may try to take advantage of her as an immigrant. (Some of these can be accomplished by a good HR consulting firm, so be prepared to spend some $$.)

[KenC]

Ken, my wife has a pretty low opinion of American interior design. She says that in Russia, her clients were very eager to have something their neighbors didn't have, something to make them feel unique, so she was able to use her full creative abilities. (Keep in mind her Moscow clients were wealthy people, not those living in community housing.) Her US clients are more conformist and want pretty much the same type of high-end kitchens as their neighbors have, with granite countertops, open design, and stainless steel appliances. She's still learning the competitive angle and how clients can be cheap, rotten SOBs (some of her early clients would ask for prints of her 3-d renderings before she realized they were cutting her firm out and handing the drawings to contractors who worked cheaper). So far, however, she's having a blast and whenever she sells a project we celebrate by eating out.

Also, like Lena, my wife's accent hasn't been a problem at all in our area; she's not fluent yet in English but due to the large # of immigrants here people are accustomed to working through language issues and don't bat an eye knowing she's Russian.

I originally thought my post was going to be a bit off topic but I think it's relevant to the discussion.

To the OP: Whatever you explain to the girls you write about working in the US, know that if you do marry an FSU woman and bring her here, you will be her best help in finding a job. You need to coach her on interview questions and manner, help her put together a good resume, and shield her from firms that may try to take advantage of her as an immigrant. (Some of these can be accomplished by a good HR consulting firm, so be prepared to spend some $$.)

Groovster,
I almost think your wife's accent would be a "good thing" in her profession.  Her clients would think that they are getting something more exotic than the norm.
KenC

[alantodd]

Groovlstk, sound like you live in New York and no offense but people from there tend to be cheap and 100% business.  I think if you moved to California or Florida you would find people are different on design.

The New Yorkers I used to deal with were a pain in the ass.  Smart but very cheap.

[KenC]

Groovlstk, sound like you live in New York and no offense but people from there tend to be cheap and 100% business.  I think if you moved to California or Florida you would find people are different on design.

The New Yorkers I used to deal with were a pain in the ass.  Smart but very cheap.

Actually, I sent Groov a PM regarding the same problem here in CA.  Now I do not give the customer the design plans until they enter into a contract with me.
KenC

[groovlstk]

Groovlstk, sound like you live in New York and no offense but people from there tend to be cheap and 100% business.  I think if you moved to California or Florida you would find people are different on design.

The New Yorkers I used to deal with were a pain in the ass.  Smart but very cheap.

Her clients are all Manhattan home owners, where the average condo is about $1.5 million. I have plenty of pejorative terms for them, but cheap wouldn't be high on the list. I doubt there's much difference from state-to-state here, but I admit I could be wrong.

One interesting observation she has is that her Moscow clients never talked budget before she designed for them. They'd see her work, ask her to tweak this and that, then ask for a price. If it was too high they'd work backwards by removing more expensive fixtures, swap out the Subzero appliances for lower-end units and materials, but do all they could to maintain the integrity of the original design. Her US clients talk budget before anything else, and then insist she finds a way to cut $20k from the project without swapping the Viking appliances for Kenmore. It's all part of her learning curve though, and I'm very proud of what she's accomplished in such a short time. We just bought our first home together and moved in last week, life's been a whirlwind since she arrived.

[Gator]

To the OP: Whatever you explain to the girls you write about working in the US, know that if you do marry an FSU woman and bring her here, you will be her best help in finding a job. You need to coach her on interview questions and manner, help her put together a good resume, and shield her from firms that may try to take advantage of her as an immigrant. (Some of these can be accomplished by a good HR consulting firm, so be prepared to spend some $$.)

Agree 100%.  Many AM use the trite expression that they search for friend, lover and partner.  If a RW wants to work in the US, she needs a mentor as well.

[Lily]

I wonder guys, why do you speak of retail?

Retail and hospitality are jobs that require high level of communication. She would have to greet people, to understand what they want or perhaps anticipate their wishes, to make sure the communication is allright if needed.

For people who cannot good English, IMHO, the jobs that can be done with mouth shot come to my mind. Like cleaning, driving, caregiving, babysitting.

[ambach123]

Retail and hospitality ( restaurants, hotels etc.) are some of the lowest paying jobs in USA, paying minimum or near minimum wages. I believe caregiving and driving pay more.
Also something like thirty million people are employed in retail and hospitality combined. I believe Wal Mart alone employs over a million people.

[Lily]

well, of course I may be wrong, but I don't think it is a question of low pay. If a person does not qualify for a job due to limited English, she will not be able to do it, whatever is the pay.

[Jet]

If possible, I would like to hear from experienced people who have brought RW here and whether she was able to find a well paying job.

Yes, this is a blanket statmement, that is the point, that it does not matter what skills she has, her job prospect are dismal and limited to retail. She would be hired if she has something to offer that they can not find in Americans, and I don't know what that would be.

I would love to be proven wrong.

I think I *may* be able to prove you wrong. As mentioned up-thread JB's wife is a University professor. IIRC she's been here about 6 or 7 years and working in that capacity for most of them. My wife is a HS teacher, a job she landed 14 1/2 months after arriving here 5 1/2 years ago. Furthermore, my wife got credit for the 7 years she taught in Russia when calculating her pay rate. She brought in somewhere just over 40k last year (this is not to brag, but to answer the question, and FL teachers pay is a matter of public record anyhow). There are others who've fared similarly well and some even better. There are several wives who've put engineering degrees to work for them stateside, and a few entrepreneurs who've done surprisingly well.

However, it DOES matter what skills she has because some are much more transferable than others. I would suspect BillyB's Lawyer friends did not get where they are with Russian/Ukrainian Law degrees, but started over from scratch, here. Same with the medical field, rules are strict and many aspects must be re-done to satisfy American criteria.

While I agree with Lily about fluency, I will strongly disagree about accent free speech, at least here in the south. As long as one is understandable, an accent is not a problem in *most* fields.

If a woman is to find a well paying job, she better be willing to bust her @$$ to do so. It is hard work for both of you (as Gator correctly stated). I recall trying to extract enough information to be able to type up a suitable CV, mailing and e-mailing HUNDREDS of resume`s, coaching my wife for interviews, and counseling/comforting her after the ones she bombed out of, before she finally landed the spot she's got now. Not to mention the fact that she spent the first year travelling 45 miles south (train down & I'd pick her up afterward) 4 days a week while she took intensive English classes at U of Miami. In our case, getting the job was not enough, there was a certification process including several nasty 1/2 day exams. She was able to ace the tests regarding the subject matter EASILY, but floundered on the psychology & procedural test because it was completely counter intuitive to everything that had been "common sense" back in Russia. In short, chances are slim that a woman is going to just fall into a high paying job, but if she is the tenacious type like Liliya, she CAN make a go of it.