Do you ever wonder why learning Russian is close to impossible?

[SANDRO43]

It's not closer to Greek, it is Greek with some modifications - Cyril and Methodius, remember? 

Then we are in agreement .

I do remember Cyril and Methodius, but maybe you do not remember Saint Clement of Ohrid, please see this earlier post on the subject: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7409.msg132887#msg132887).

[Ooooops]

I do remember Cyril and Methodius, but maybe you do not remember Saint Clement of Ohrid

Saint Clement of Ohrid (Свети Климент Охридски) was a Bulgarian disciple of Saint Cyril and Saint Methodius (who invented Glagolitic, the oldest known Slavic alphabet) is the reputed developer of Cyrillic

Thanks, didn't know about him.    But it's Святой Климент Охридский if you want to write his  name in Russian   

[SANDRO43]

Thanks, didn't kBut it's Святой Климент Охридский if you want to write his name in Russian 

Thank you for the correction Ooooops, I copied his name from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Ohrid, where I understand that Свети is the Bulgarian spelling .

[Ooooops]

where I understand that Свети is the Bulgarian spelling .

Oh, I see....   Ok, my bad then.   I can read and understand lots of other Slavic languages to may be 50% accuracy, which comes helpful during the travels across Eastern Europe.   

[SANDRO43]

Oh, I see....   Ok, my bad then.

No problem .

I can read and understand lots of other Slavic languages to may be 50% accuracy, which comes helpful during the travels across Eastern Europe.

Out of curiosity, how do the other Slavic languages sound to Russian ears ? I am under the impression that Russian is the most musical of them all, but I could be mistaken .

[Ooooops]

Out of curiosity, how do the other Slavic languages sound to Russian ears ? I am under the impression that Russian is the most musical of them all, but I could be mistaken .

To tell you the truth Russian is pretty harsh to the ear I think.   Very close to Arabic with lots of yelling and rrrrrrrrrs and hhhhhhhhhhs and ssssssssss.   I like Polish or Ukrainian better. 

[SANDRO43]

Very close to Arabic with lots of yelling and rrrrrrrrrs and hhhhhhhhhhs and ssssssssss.

Don't think I'm picking on you, but having studied Arabic too, I beg to differ again: I find very few similarities between the sounds of two languages (and I have a decent musical ear, as well) .

Yes, Arabic has Hs. Actually, 3 different ones, a soft, a medium and a hard one which is VERY explosive, used for instance in حرب (harb, war), but its most characteristic phonetic feature is the ubiquitous hamza (glottal stop), giving Arabic its peculiar 'staccato' rhythm.

To me, Polish sounds harsher than Russian, but that may be my subjective impression .

[OlgaH]

To me, Polish sounds harsher than Russian, but that may be my subjective impression .

Just some examples 

English                       Russian                            Polish

Day                           день (dyen')                     dzien'  (dzhyen')

Night                         ночь (noch')                      noc  (nots)

Monday          понедельник(po-nye-dyel'-nik)        poniedzial'ek (po-nye-dzhya-lek)

Tuesday                       вторник (vtor-nik)        wtorek (fto-ryek)

Winter                         зима (zee-mah)               zima (zhee-mah) zh - like in pleasure

Some words in Polish sound as in Russian without any difference.

[SANDRO43]

Tuesday    вторник (vtor-nik)     wtorek (fto-ryek)

Am I wrong, or isn't вторник pronounced 'ftor-nik' in Russian ?

[OlgaH]

Am I wrong, or isn't вторник pronounced 'ftor-nik' in Russian ?

Yes, you are right and as f-f-f-ftornik after Monday party   

[SANDRO43]

Yes, you are right and as f-f-f-ftornik after Monday party 

Seemed reasonable, after all второй is 'fta-roy', isn't it ?

[OlgaH]

Seemed reasonable, after all второй is 'fta-roy', isn't it ?

Are you talking about 'fta-roy' party as continuation, when Monday smoothly and insensibly turns into 'ftornik"?

[Ooooops]

To me, Polish sounds harsher than Russian, but that may be my subjective impression .

May be you just haven't heard it from a very pretty Polish lady?      There is a pretty famous poem by Alexander  Pushkin -

БУДРЫС И ЕГО СЫНОВЬЯ

Три у Будрыса сына, как и он, три литвина.
    Он пришел толковать с молодцами.
«Дети! седла чините, лошадей проводите,
    Да точите мечи с бердышами.

Справедлива весть эта: на три стороны света
    Три замышлены в Вильне похода.
Паз идет на поляков, а Ольгерд на прусаков,
    А на русских Кестут воевода.

Люди вы молодые, силачи удалые
    (Да хранят вас литовские боги!),
Нынче сам я не еду, вас я шлю на победу;
    Трое вас, вот и три вам дороги.

Будет всем по награде: пусть один в Новеграде
    Поживится от русских добычей.
Жены их, как в окладах, в драгоценных нарядах;
    Домы полны; богат их обычай.

А другой от прусаков, от проклятых крыжаков,
    Может много достать дорогого,
Денег с целого света, сукон яркого цвета;
    Янтаря — что песку там морского.

Третий с Пазом на ляха пусть ударит без страха;
    В Польше мало богатства и блеску,
Сабель взять там не худо; но уж верно оттуда
    Привезет он мне на дом невестку.

Нет на свете царицы краше польской девицы.
    Весела — что котенок у печки —
И как роза румяна, а бела, что сметана;
    Очи светятся будто две свечки!

Был я, дети, моложе, в Польшу съездил я тоже
    И оттуда привез себе женку;
Вот и век доживаю, а всегда вспоминаю
    Про нее, как гляжу в ту сторонку».

Сыновья с ним простились и в дорогу пустились.
    Ждет, пождет их старик домовитый,
Дни за днями проводит, ни один не приходит.
    Будрыс думал: уж, видно, убиты!

Снег на землю валится, сын дорогою мчится,
    И под буркою ноша большая.
«Чем тебя наделили? что там? Ге! не рубли ли?»
    «Нет, отец мой; полячка младая».

Снег пушистый валится; всадник с ношею мчится,
    Черной буркой ее покрывая.
«Что под буркой такое? Не сукно ли цветное?»
    «Нет, отец мой; полячка младая».

Снег на землю валится, третий с ношею мчится,
    Черной буркой ее прикрывает.
Старый Будрыс хлопочет и спросить уж не хочет,
    А гостей на три свадьбы сзывает.

 

[SANDRO43]

May be you just haven't heard it from a very pretty Polish lady?   

Can't say that I have, very pretty Polish ladies are scarce around here, and the last time I heard Polish spoken was on our TV by the former Pope .

There is a pretty famous poem by Alexander  Pushkin

Thank you, now I have something to keep me occupied for the next two or three days .

[Ooooops]

Thank you, now I have something to keep me occupied for the next two or three days .

You are very welcome.   I'm sure you'll enjoy the poem once you get it translated.   

[SANDRO43]

I'm sure you'll enjoy the poem once you get it translated.

But I'll probably miss the finer nuances .

[Ooooops]

But I'll probably miss the finer nuances .

I can give you synopsis if you'd like   

PS.   I love that movie!   

[russianresources]

I'd like to add the following list of resources for all learners of the russian language. I'm currently collating a list of over 500 links to learn the Russian language, split into areas like grammar, listening practice, reading practice, phrases. I've also listed over 40 books, cds, audio courses, software to learn Russian along with reviews where available.

Main Site:
http://www.russian-resources.info

Grammar links: http://www.russian-resources.info/links.aspx/grammar

I've created a number of grammar reference sheets you can download and print out:
http://www.russian-resources.info/content/refsheets.aspx

I've also listed a number of recommended resources for learning Russian:
http://www.russian-resources.info/recommendedresources.aspx

And compared a number of audio courses available:
http://www.russian-resources.info/coursecomparisions.aspx

Enjoy!

[tfcrew]

Example of a really ideal way to learn Russian....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mickey-Mouse-Magazine-1990-Russian-Version-1-NM_W0QQitemZ130258947052QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
It is how I learned Spanish better than I did in high school.

 In the past I've wondered ..why the need to learn Russian?
Going to work for the State Department?
Or a translator for the UN?
Isn't the idea to teach [her] English?

But you know what?..They will never abandon their native tongue and they will find friends to converse with...and you will grow tired of not being able to join in.
Let me also mention that they will mutter [aloud] to themselves in Russian.
It is cool to respond [positively] 

Another thing...Back on the old Planet Love forum, there was a link for romantic sayings in phonetic Russian. I had lost that link since but try this one...
http://lyrics.russian-women.net/
Corny but instuctive.

[Andrew James]

Has anyone listened to the Russian News as a way of learning the language? I ask because I have been using Pimsleurs for about an hour a day over the last few months and have developed this sense I was getting somewhere (a lot further than with Rosetta Stone.) The trouble is, I recently started watching the Russian News each morning, to test myself, and I barely understand what the hell they are talking about (maybe they don't either; after all aren't all their scripts written for them by the government?) Is this a common experience, listening to Russian in a natural environment and suddenly being all at sea?

[ScottinCrimea]

When I first started watching Russian news it all seemed like one continuous sound but I would catch maybe one word of a hundred.  Over time I would recognize more words and be able to extrapolate those that I didn't understand.  No while I still can't claim to understand all the words being said, I can at least figure out what they are talking about and some of the details.    It was worse watching in Ukraine because some programs were in Russian and others in Ukrainian and that added to some of the confusion.  The good side is that I now understand the Ukrainian almmost as well as the Russian and can even tell the difference.  Still, I don't think this is the best method of learning Russian.  Is there a Russian version of Sesame Street?

I did the Pimsleur thing for awhile before I first went to Ukraine and it did help with basic phrases but not much beyond that.  It was a good starting point, though.

[Misha]

Has anyone listened to the Russian News as a way of learning the language?

In my experience, the language used in your average Russian news report will be very different from the language of everyday life. In my experience, there is a high Russian which is used in writing and in formal occasions and there is low Russian which is everyday speech. It all depends what you want to achieve. Watching the Russian news will help, but do expect to be very frustrated as you are likely to understand little of it. Simply talking to people will be more effective in the long run to gain conversational fluency.

[OlgaH]

Is there a Russian version of Sesame Street?

When I was a little girl I liked to watch "Абвгдейка" (since 1975) 

[youtube=425,350]kW7SPGckcKE[/youtube]


Russian version of Sesame Street (since 1996)

[youtube=425,350]xS1VD0SRBww[/youtube]

[Andrew James]

I certainly prefer the idea of an immersion environment for learning. (Research in Psychology indicates it's a better way.) Indeed it would be great to get hold of some DVDs of Russian Children's shows, like the ones you posted Olga.

I just found Rosetta Stone rather labored and stilted (maybe something to do with it only being in still pictures in an age of video-literacy) whereas Pimsleurs seems to flow better (I certainly find it more motivating, though it would benefit immeasurably from accompanying videos which would go very well in the latest video iPods.) Then again, as you indicated Scott, I wonder if Pimsleurs is teaching one a kind of 'traveler's Russian' as opposed to something more organic.)

As far as my priorities Misha, I am keen to be able to speak Russian on a more personal level - not just to navigate my way as a tourist. (I know, it will take me years but I figure it is worth it in the long run.)

Lastly, what level of Russian have you more experienced guys achieved? I imagine a rather romantic scenario where you and your FSU teach each other your respective tongues, thus making her feel less like she is the student in the relationship. Such a grand language too - especially when spoken by women! Indeed it reflects my my image of Russia - and Russian women - as a whole: romantic with a hard edge.

[docetae]

Lastly, what level of Russian have you more experienced guys achieved? I imagine a rather romantic scenario where you and your FSU teach each other your respective tongues, thus making her feel less like she is the student in the relationship. Such a grand language too - especially when spoken by women! Indeed it reflects my my image of Russia - and Russian women - as a whole: romantic with a hard edge.

This is what we are doing now.My wife told me that I have an accent from the baltic when I talk russian. In fact, I have a more better accent in german and in russian than in english... Our common language is english, she must learn french, I must learn russian. The good thing is that many words are common between French and Russian... Our brains are learning the same way, first we study grammar (the structure) with simple phrases and after more complex constructions and vocabularies. Now I can read most of the advertising in Kiev, can ask my way (and understand the answer) or ask for bill at restaurant.

Russian is the 4th language I learn (native french, german, english and now russian). Next step will be to read children books. I estimate to around 3 years the time needed to have normal, not elaborate, talk with 6 hours of work per week. My dream is to know 7 languages (next will be spanish)