What difference does age make?

[Sculpto]

Kuna.. relax!

Turbo.. I totally agree.. Energy should go spend the summer on Arcadia or Kazantip... in fact.. Kazantip is EXACTLY where he should go...

caution.. nudity.. and this might be an eye opener for some people...

http://www.kazantip.com/

[dispozo]

Kuna.. relax!

Turbo.. I totally agree.. Energy should go spend the summer on Arcadia or Kazantip... in fact.. Kazantip is EXACTLY where he should go...

caution.. nudity.. and this might be an eye opener for some people...

http://www.kazantip.com/

Do not forget your yellow suitcase. We were there but left a couple days before it started.

[EnergyAZ]

Hey guys

seems like there is some misunderstanding here.  As someone PM'ed me, he warned me that this crowd can be pretty conservative at times..if I say the word "clubbing" I might as well be asking you all how I should snort cocaine off my RW naked body!  I thought he was joking, but seeing some of the reactions in this thread - apparently he was not kidding!   4 days since I last posted and we got people talking about what I should and shouldnt do, who I should or shouldnt be with, where I should or should no go, what my perceived maturity level is, etc.   Its pretty interesting!


Just to clarify myself...not because I 'care' what the naysayers think, but I do plan to participate on this forum and do wish to be known a little better/clearer by everyone....

1.) I am NOT looking for a 'party girl'   Just from my life experience, people in their 20's tend to like to let their hair down on occasion (girls night out, etc), and I am totally understanding and supportive of that.  I understand younger people are more social people, especially females.  I feel if I were to be the possessive/controlling type who rarely let her out on her own with her girlfriends from time to time will ultimately be bad for our relationship. I have no idea why some of you seem to not understand what I am saying. I think some of you got too hung up on words like 'underground' and 'nightclub' and drew your own conclusions on what that exactly meant.

2.) As much as I want a woman who desires to be a wife and mother, if she is under age 25, there is a lot of life ahead and no need to rush into baby ASAP.  IMO, it would be better suited, especially for a foreign person, to get acclimated in her new society, take classes, make friends, find a job, etc, etc before taking the overwhelming responsibility of parenthood.  Just because I have no desire to rush into pregnancy with my next lady does not mean I am incompatible with a family minded person!  I am a family minded person! lol

3.) One of the reasons I am divorced is because I feel me and my ex rushed headlong into parenthood before allowing/ensuring our relationship had passed some tests of time...too confident in our love, we felt invincible.  From the moment we met, not 24 months had passed before we were married/prego and in hindsight, perhaps we should have taken our time a little more? Bio-clock had something to do with the haste, so I am wanting to avoid that entirely by going with a younger woman.  Have plenty of time to develop the relationship with more than enough time for babies.

4.) I am not seeking a RW due to loneliness.  Some of you guys ought to stop projecting your feelings/motivations onto others.  I do not, nor have I ever had a problem meeting local women.  This time in my life, I am looking for a totally different experience, totally different person with different world/social views. Have I grown disillusioned with western women?  Somewhat, but I felt that way for a long time and it didnt stop me from chatting up a girl I found interesting.  My feelings towards my ex, towards the American dating pool in general - have very little to do with my desire to meet a RW. 

5.) I truly appreciate all the comments pro or con.  I signed with this forum as a place to find information about international dating and to see various personal examples of the highs/lows associated.  I have quickly learned this age difference topic is a hot potato and about as polarizing as any political discussion.  There will always be the people who look down on it, and the others who do not.  This will never change no matter how either side tries to spin their logic to the other.

 IMO, 15 years is max age difference....max for ME that is.  With this one girl I have in mind, it would be 13 year difference which is near the top of my range.  A pretty decent gap, but by no means anything terribly unusual....even in domestic relationships.

  I am quite aware of happy relationships with larger or smaller age gaps - and congratulations to all!  I suppose all that really means is that an age gap is not really an issue unless you personally say it is.

[EnergyAZ]

After seeing your "RW and sexuality" thread on another forum and your posts here I'm a little curious about the reality you're trying to spin; are you really looking for a partner to share your life or a young hot Russian body you can poke until you are ready to have kids?

Whats wrong with both?   

Yes, I want a hot young woman I can poke! And when the time comes to poke unprotected, then I am hoping that hot young woman also is a wonderful & affectionate mother!

Are you suggesting that one should not be wildly attracted/lust driven...to his....wife??   Maybe I should seek a wife and a mistress rather than hope they could be one in the same person?

Is that what you are suggesting here?


I didn't think so either, although its pretty easy to make assumptions...isn't it?

[EnergyAZ]

That TOTALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE will last only a couple of years, even with an age difference.  With any luck, after a while she will become simply the woman in your life and might retain a cute accent.

The thrill you seek is quite temporary IMHO.. - what's the next thrill?

Yeah, that is right.  And the thrill of meeting anyone is temporary.  Who cares where that person is from, when you 1st meet someone special - those feelings are some of what makes life beautiful! 

But after the 'newness' of the relationship fades....whats the next thrill?

So what are you really trying to ask me here?  And is it really specific to 'RW'?


To me, the answer to your question of whats the next thrill?  How about living happily ever after?  Isnt that what we all want from relationships?  Who cares RW...we all want to share and enjoy life with a loving partner right?

That's what comes next - the work that is much easier said than done (having a successful, rewarding long term relationship)

[EnergyAZ]

Energy: I look 5........whatever years younger than I am, I have/do date young'uns at home, I am young at heart, I will give her all the freedom she needs etc, rah rah. Might be news to you, but the crusty ol' guys who've been around this caper for a while have heard this a thousand times before, almost word for word. Doesn't cut it. You're 34, you're young (In my view), you have an array of options including young'uns available but you are off your merry rocker if you think you are going to drag a 21 Y/O across the world and she is going to become a stable wife for life. Sure there is exceptional examples, but by being exceptional, they demonstrate the general rule, for the most part it isn't going to work.

Her new "Western Identity".  Ain't gunna happen buddy. You'll have a Ukrainian / Russian woman living with you. She will always be Ukrainian / Russian to the boot straps. Get your head around that and you might or might not decide to continue.  Just a side note, she says she wants to be a mother now and you plan to send her out to plant her roots in the social scene. If she is so mature and wise for her age, why is it that you who say you are only a few years older (You look and are so much younger than your age) know so much more about what is good for her. Why are these opinions and desires of this young but so mature thinking woman of no value in your thinking?

You should get on a plane and go visit. One week on the ground with her will tell you more than you can imagine.

I/O

Now this is solid stuff here!  I appreciate your input!

Yeah, I had a feeling that this venture of meeting a RW wasnt going to be easy.  And if it was going to be easy, I am not sure if I would be interested anyway.

I would have to be off my rocker to believe ANY woman age 21 is going to be a stable wife for life! 

However, my 37 year old ex also demonstrated how she couldnt be a stable wife for life...so...what do you do?

No guarantees in life. 

So I find myself in a position to try something totally different (for me)

And if it fails in the end...well....that's life ya know? 

And BTW:  I met a 23 year old Estonian girl here in the states. She had been here 4 years and was very Americanized.  Almost too much.  So I hope you are right the woman I meet holds onto her roots a little longer/deeper


As far as why do I feel I might know better than a 21 year old?  Possibly the same reason you feel you might know better than me!     


 

[EnergyAZ]

Not quite sure what you mean by "western identity," but from the context you've written it seems like a positive thing, like a young girl being freed from the shackles of a humdrum, boring culture and suddenly being allowed to flourish and live. Regardless of how silly that assumption is - the reverse is more accurate - what you'll likely find (if you ever get so far as to do a K1) is that your girl will never exchange her Russian roots for a western identity. FWIW, my wife has been in the US for two years and she doesn't have a single American friend nor does she have any interest in such.

I/O and BC seem to have the rest covered nicely, so I'll shut up for a change.

That is interesting because the only FSU woman I have met (the 23 year old Estonian) was the polar opposite.  She dove into this country and in many ways, you couldnt tell she was not western herself.

Ideally, I would like my lady to fall somewhere between yours and the Estonian girl I met.  I would hope she would embrace her new surroundings & the people within it, rather than reject it and isolate herself.  Of course, her intentions may be to dive in, but her own concerns/fears/insecurities compel her to dig a hole and hide?  Who knows, all I am trying to do is prepare myself as best possible for any of the myriad outcome that might come my way in order to be the most supportive person I possibly can be. 

Thats why I am here - learning and chatting to all the guys who have been there/done that and have their unique experiences to share.  I dont want to do this thing 1/2 assed, and I dont want to get divorced 2x.  I am as sincere as possible in my attempt to find a life partner (who just happens to come from Europe! lol)



What I mean by 'western identity':


When your life changes, I mean big changes...I dont care who you are, when your life changes...parenthood, relationship, job loss, moving to a new state, physical disability, winning the lotto....anything that seriously changes your life

....changes you  (regardless if you care to admit it or not)


And as much as genetics come into play, we are also shaped by our environment.  Change the environment in someone's life, you will change the person.  For pro or con is up to the person themselves..

 thats what I mean by 'new western identity'.  I should have just said new identity left 'western' out and avoided some confusion! lol

[OlgaH]

1.) I am NOT looking for a 'party girl'   Just from my life experience, people in their 20's tend to like to let their hair down on occasion (girls night out, etc), and I am totally understanding and supportive of that.  I understand younger people are more social people, especially females.

I also was not looking for a party boy... I'm not in my 20s anymore, but I'm still a social person and like parties  ... and I'm very lucky and glad that my husband is so supportive of that and always ready for a "girl night out"  That's a great pity that we can't do it so often here as we could do it in Russia...

[Turboguy]

Sometimes people can say something that creates an impression that is far from reality.  Perhaps they mean something entirely different from what they say or perhaps not.

Since I was one of the main ones who saw you as very immature I will say that with your most recent posts you are coming off with a little higher level of maturity.

Personally I don't see the age gap as a problem.  That is about average for this group.  I will agree with what the others said that the cute accent does wear off but I do think if you have a good RW they have so many other qualities that don't wear off that I don't think you will regret it.

The amount of adjusting can vary a lot.  When my wife came here a little over a year ago I was metally prepaired to see some tough adjuctments and to be honest she has adapted well.   She really has worked to become and American and really I have had to cope with almost no issues or problems.   Reading here and being involved here will help you tremendously.   Spending as much time as you can on RWD at your stage of the game is really going to pay off big time.

Before your last posts I rated your chances of success at about 5%.  Right now I think if you really want to succeed you have an excellent chance. 

[BC]

Uh ohh...  TG's going senile on us.. quoting and talking to himself
 

[Turboguy]

Sometimes that is the best way of always finding someone who will agree with your point of view BC.

[ScottinCrimea]

I think the point you are missing is that we're not talking about the age gap particularly, we're talking about HER age.  My wife and I have a 15 year age gap and yes, there are problems, but they can be worked through.  I'm thinking you are looking in the FSU because it would be very difficult for you to find a hot 21 year old with the qualities you seek here in the US who would marry you.  Hey, going overseas isn't going to change the odds much.

You keep talking about what you want, your plans, etc. but you need to think about what you have and what it is about you that would make a family oriented girl leave her family, country, friends, etc. to come be with you and that would keep her from changing her mind once she matures a little.  The excitement of a new adventure can fade very quickly. Sure it can be fun to chat up an older man on the internet.  I bet you write her a lot of fun and flattering things.  But when it comes down to her deciding to change everything about her life, she may developp cold feet very quickly.

You talk about wanting five years to build the relationship.  I suggest that you spend a good portion of those five years doing this BEFORE you bring her over.  Sure, you won't get to "poke" her every night but at least you'll really know the person you're doing it with and you'll know that she'll be around for many more opportunities in the future.

[BillyB]

Sometimes that is the best way of always finding someone who will agree with your point of view BC.

Not only do we agree with them, we admire and respect that person. Everytime I want to have an intelligent conversation with a person I respect and admire, I head to the nearest mirror.

[i_am_ukrainian]

2) Woman under 25 still are under the strong wing of MOM. No matter how much of an inside edge you think you may have, if MOM says no, YOU AINT GETTTING THE GIRL.

  not true. I am 21. at he age of 20 I moved to the states and got married. Yes my mom was against my choice, but its MY CHOICE AND MY LIFE. so please don't say that all Ukrainian women under 25 are under the strong wing of MOM.

[Jack]

Most young women will be very much influenced by their mom's wishes.

Their will be exceptions, such as i am ukrainian has eluded to, but most Ukraine women I have meet, from early 20's, to early 30's, are greatly influenced by their mom's wishes.

Many Ukraine mothers think their daughter will have a better life in a different country with a foreign man. I know of some Ukraine mothers who have been active in their daughters pursuit looking for a foreign man.  I also know of some mothers who told their daughter she did not want her to live outside the country, she would miss her to much and these daughters did exactly as mom requested, they did not seek or marry a foreign man.

So although their will always be exceptions I do think that many Ukraine women, and I would go as far to say most Ukraine women, are going to be influenced by their mothers decision.

[Gator]

Jack, another exception, my wife.  And if you knew the long story about her mother, you would understand. 

I have seen my wife go out of her way to try to bridge the gap between her and her mother, so there is that element of influence you mentioned.  Nevertheless, she would never defer to her mother's wishes.

[Misha]

Nevertheless, she would never defer to her mother's wishes.

Same is true for my wife.

[Jack]

Most young women will be very much influenced by their mom's wishes.

Their will be exceptions, such as  i am ukrainian  has eluded to, but most Ukraine women I have meet, from early 20's, to early 30's, are greatly influenced by their mom's wishes.

Jack, another exception, my wife. 

Gator, I do not see older Russian women influenced by their mother anywhere near the degree as younger women, from early 20's to early 30's. If your wife is early 30's, you are correct, another exception. I thought your wife was late 30's or early 40's. 

[CaptB]

Gator,

Wife...?....wife!? Sorry for the off-topic. Congratuations Gator on your marriage. I have been away from the forum for quite awhile. Unless he already knows....I'll pass it on to that elussive "jb" character.


Capt B

[Gator]

Jack,

There are so many of us it is difficult to recall everything.  My wife is 33, and I first met her when she was 26.  Yes, much too young for me, but she is a winner.  Interestingly, she has a better relationship now with her mother than when she was in her early 20s.  Long story, and while not typical I have met other RW who had the same family situation.  Thank God for grandmothers!!!

You may have been confused by the fact that I was briefly engaged to a 42-yo Cossack ex-model who valued the opinions of her mama and God mother too.  Something about having a functional, loving family.

[Gator]

Capt B,

Thanks.  Yes, it has been 8 months now.  And JB knows and has been supportive since she is a Muscovite.

[vwrw]

  And JB knows and has been supportive since she is a Muscovite.

Reading jb’s posts I had come to conclusion that he supported judging women by content of her character, NOT by  the city or place where she lived.

It is disappointing that vice versa appears to be true. 

[Gator]

VWRW, true, there are good and bad women in every FSU city. 

I do not wish to renew the inconclusive debate about Women from Moscow vs. Other Cities.

Nor do I wish to place words in JB's mouth.  Everyman differs with regard to his tastes and desires.  JB spent a lot of business time in Russia, and he expressed his fondness for Moscow women, particularly the Muscovite he married.  Another man would prefer RW from provincial cities.

[Misha]

he expressed his fondness for Moscow women, particularly the Muscovite he married

I would hope so 

[vwrw]

Everyman differs with regard to his tastes and desires. 

Yes, every man differs with regard to his tastes and desires. One prefers Moscow women; other one prefers RW from provincial cities. And  another man, probably the most mature one, prefers RW with compatible character and gives no *snip* regarding the city she has been living in.

I do not wish to renew the inconclusive debate about Women from Moscow vs. Other Cities.

Neither do I.
I find the facts brought to support positions of both parties in this debate to be out-of -date.
100 years ago when there were not TV, internet, aircrafts, book was very expensive and magazines were not readily available and so on,  it was sensible to debate about Women from Moscow vs. Other Cities. In modern world, debate on the subject seems ridiculous.