Why is it referred to as "The Great Patriotic War"?

[Jet]

This isn't *new* news but I think an interesting topic for discussion. I stumbled across much of this info while researching for something else, and remembered asking myself the question in the title as I first started corresponding with Liliya, so maybe it will help to enlighten other "newbies" that may not be well versed in Soviet history. (We really need a history section here somewhere  )

Who really defeated the Nazis in the Second World War? In Europe it is often assumed that it was the Western Allies led by Great Britain and aided by the US. Many in the US believe that it was their country that saved the day. All too often the critical role of the Soviet Union is forgotten or ignored.
While all the Allied armies had their part to play in the defeat of fascism it can be argued that it was the Soviet Union that really broke the back of the Third Reich. Certainly the Soviet Union suffered more than any other country during the war, as the 26 million Soviet war dead testify. Part of the explanation for this extraordinary high toll is the tactics adopted by Soviet commanders during the conflict.
In 1945 Marshal Georgy Zhukov (commander of the Red Army directly under Stalin) is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there."

The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost.
 
Germany surrenders unconditionally on 7 May 1945. However, while the war in Europe is over, the war in the Pacific against Japan goes on. Operation August Storm, the Soviet campaign against the Japanese is short-lived. The US drops atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on 6 and 9 August 1945 respectively. Japanese Emperor Hirohito surrenders unconditionally on 14 August 1945, finally ending the Second World War.
 
Over 60 million people have died worldwide as a result of the war, including:
·   Over 26 million Soviets,
·   About 11.3 million Chinese,
·   Over seven million Germans,
·   About 6.8 million Poles,
·   Almost two million Japanese,
·   Between one million and 1.7 million Yugoslavs,
·   985,000 Romanians,
·   810,000 French,
·   750,000 Hungarians,
·   525,000 Austrians,
·   520,000 Greeks,
·   410,000 Italians,
·   400,000 Czechs,
·   388,000 British,
·   298,000 Americans,
·   250,000 Dutch,
·   118,000 Filipinos,
·   88,000 Belgians,
·   84,000 Fins,
·   42,000 Canadians,
·   36,000 Indians,
·   29,000 Australians,
·   22,000 Spaniards,
·   21,000 Bulgarians,
·   12,000 New Zealanders,
·   10,000 Norwegians,
·   9,000 South Africans, and
·   4,000 Danes.
Almost half the total war dead were from the Soviet Union. Of the more than 26 million Soviets killed, nearly 18 million were civilians. About nine million servicemen and women from the Red Army died. Speaking in June, the commander of the Allied offensive on the Western Front, US General Dwight D. Eisenhower said, "The war in Europe has been won and to no man do the United Nations owe a greater debt than to Marshal Georgy Zhukov." There was virtually no Soviet family left untouched by the ravages of the Great Patriotic War and that's the reason for the reverence, nostalgia, and vast number of monuments across the FSU.

[Lily]

Are you looking for an answer to your question, or? 

If I got your point correctly, you wonder why the WWII was called The Great Partiotic War in the USSR, whereas the war involved many nations?

I think it was called like this in the SU in order to bring the achievements of Soviet people to the highest level possible, to promote the prestige of the Soviets among the people. At the same time, the USSR government tried to put less emphasis on achievements of other nations, especially because they were non-Communist countries. They did not undermine them, though; they just gave a bit less weight to them.

[SANDRO43]

The turning point of WWII is generally considered Field Marshal Von Paulus's surrender of the German VIth Army at Stalingrad on 2nd February, 1943 (my birthday ).

I am proud of my contribution to the war effort .

[Jet]

I guess my point was to show the enormous contribution USSR made to the war effort, and the devastating toll it paid, which is very often overlooked in the west unless one takes the time to specifically research for themselves. Schools here simply don't teach this stuff.

The turning point of WWII is generally considered Field Marshal Von Paulus's surrender of the German VIth Army at Stalingrad on 2nd February, 1943 (my birthday ).

The defense against the sieges of Stalingrad and Leningrad were truly awe inspiring, especially the 2 month defense of Petrov's house in Stalingrad!

[KenC]

Many men's misconceptions and ignorance regarding WWII will be corrected during their pursuit of RW!  It is a subject that is close to their heart for obvious reasons.

I can only retell the story of when Lena attended an important business conference with me in Orlando quite soon after her arrival in America.  The executive VP of my most important customer studied Russia in college.  He and Lena got into a very deep and detailed conversation regarding WWII with her correcting many of his misconceptions!  Lena's great grandfather and grandfather both served in the Russian military during the war with her grandfather participating in the Battle of Stalingrad.  Needless to say the conversation got rather animated (what else could you expect with a RW?)  Afterward, the VP came to me and just shook his head and said "Amazing, simply amazing.  Ken, you have got to be the luckiest man in the world."  Of course I agreed.
KenC

[Serebro]

Are you looking for an answer to your question, or? 

If I got your point correctly, you wonder why the WWII was called The Great Partiotic War in the USSR, whereas the war involved many nations?

I think it was called like this in the SU in order to bring the achievements of Soviet people to the highest level possible, to promote the prestige of the Soviets among the people.

I don't think so.It has nothing to do with "prestige"(I don't even think that this word can be used that way)
I don't know the  family that has't lost someone or its members haven't taken part in the war and haven't suffered, in other words that was everybody's horror and everybody's pain:one family lost a son, another one lost daughters/someone else lost his/her fathers/brothers... everyone lost someone and something...


For example if you look at Belarussia 1/2 of the population was killed/died in the war.(I wonder why  they never complain or blame Russia for that ), because of its geographical position its loss was tremendous and hard to believe in...

at the same time I remember stories that people-my grandparents/neighbours/their friends told me-they really believed in victory and loved their country and  their leader very much(that's a pity he didn't love them), they had a lot of patriotic slogans that made those people take part in battles  and do things when they realised that they wouldn't survive anyway.

Do you remember the song"Вставай страна огромная"
written by Lebedev Kumach and Aleksandrov
downloads:
http://www.9may.ru/songs/m1614
Fashists had a list of Soviet people who were the "worst enemies"of Germany and they printed their names on sheets of paper and gave them to the troops, so the name of  Aleksandrov and Lebedev Kumach who wrote the words of that song were on the top of that list.60 years after the war ended this song is still called the most patriotic and "pushing" to defending/I found an English translation(not the full translation, IMHO it's MUCH worse than the original Russian version but still it reflects the idea of the song:
Get up, the giant country,           
Get up for mortal fight             
With German horde uncounted,         
With forces of the night             

Chorus:                             
Let noble anger of the soul         
Get boiled as a wave.               
The people’s war, the holy war.     
We’ll fight until the grave.         

Let's give repulse to oppressors     
Of all the ardent thoughts.         
To rapers and to murderers,         
Let's say the swear words.           

Chorus:                             

We will not let the darkened wings   
Fly over Motherland.                 
The native country spacious fields   
Are not for fiend's extend.         

Chorus:                             

For rotten fascist pack we've got   
A bullet and a bomb.                 
The spawn of the planet Earth       
Must get into the tomb.

That song was written in 1941 and sounded every day till the Victory in 1945, my grandmother was 11 when the war started and she started working 18 hours a day(no days off)since she was 12, she told me that every morning when they went to work near the radio on the bulding where the authorities worked they heard that song...

It's surprising to see how much patriotism people had at that time and even years after that, how much they loved their country, how proud of it they were. Even starving(my grandmom's sister died from starvation)and living in poor conditions they never complained about their government or about the way they suffered... they only mentioned that as facts and cried and they were very rpoud of soviet achievments.

After losing 30mln of the polulation and having the western part of the country destroyed those people worked to be the first country in the world to explore the space..., less than 16 years after the war ended.

People had a lot of patriotism and they had a clear IDEA of being the best and they loved their country very much, that was why the part of the war with the USSR is called the Great Patriotic War.

[Serebro]

Many men's misconceptions and ignorance regarding WWII will be corrected during their pursuit of RW!  It is a subject that is close to their heart for obvious reasons.

  Lena's great grandfather and grandfather both served in the Russian military during the war with her grandfather participating in the Battle of Stalingrad. 

My neighbour took part in the Battle of Stalingrad , I remember every time when we celebrated May, 9 they invited us to their place and he told us something and cried every time as he was very old at that time, I remember that his stories helped me at school, I took part in "Olimpiada" in history and all the students had to answer a list of questions so there was the question about Romania and WW2.. I was young and I couldn't remember what Romanians did, if they were "with Germans" or with "the USSR"....then I remembered the picturesque description of the battle made by my neighbour and the answer was "with Germans".....

That man died 3 years ago and it was, May,9-th....very mysterious.. I think that every time he remembered so much and the recollections were so bright that his heart coudln't cope with it anymore...as for my grandfather on my mom's side he took part in the battle of Berlin....

[Gator]

Personally I like the term "Great Patriotic War."  The Soviets took the brunt of it in wearing down the Nazi war machine.  The term is somewhat akin to Civil War vs. War between the States.

The turning point of WWII is generally considered Field Marshal Von Paulus's surrender of the German VIth Army at Stalingrad on 2nd February, 1943 (my birthday ).

I am proud of my contribution to the war effort .

That was one of multiple turning points.  Von Paulus asked permission from Hitler to break out from the thin Soviet encirclement to save his army, yet Hitler refused any form of retreat away from taking the city named after Stalin.  And the city was not that important to the overall objectives.

A bigger turning point was Hitler deciding to invade Russia.  If not distracted by that eventual disaster, the Nazi military would have had time to consolidate their European holdings, perfect jet fighters, develop the nuclear bomb, and have more Aryan superbabies.  And quite possibly, Sandro, you would understand the German language very well today (perhaps you already do knowing your language skills).

The US entering the war was certainly another.   Perhaps it was inevitable. 

[KenC]

Lena's great grandfather was an officer in the Czar's private guard and was put into a gulag after the overthrow of the Czar.  He was released during WWII only because his military background proved usefull.  While her grandfather lied about his age to join the Russian army.  He was 16 when he joined.  He too ended up an officer after many successful missions.  His job was to infiltrate German held territories under cover and report back to his troops.  He later became a sniper.

We Americans, for the most part, have not had the hands on experience with this war as the Russians have.  I say "for the most part" becusae there are some who lost family members here too.  But it didn't affect our families on their own soil like it did Russians.  Like Lena's story of her great grandmother.  With her son and husband both at war, things were pretty tough going for her.  For one year she existed entirely on her pumpkin crop as it was only pumplin seeds that she could obtain.
KenC
KenC

[Serebro]

KenC remark made me think about something:

The Great Patriotic War lasted for about 4 years.. if you count the number of killed/dead people and the number of days it will be more than

20,000

dead people every day.

for comparison:
http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/

CONFIRMED DEAD: 2948

for the USSR it was like having 10 septembers, 11 every day for 4 years' time.

Now imagine that all those people had relatives...

[Serebro]

The turning point of WWII is generally considered Field Marshal Von Paulus's surrender of the German VIth Army at Stalingrad on 2nd February, 1943 (my birthday ).

I am proud of my contribution to the war effort .

I am sorry, I missed that....
:hairraising:
Sandro, you are from Italy!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was faschist!!! Benito Mussolini, a leader of Italy was Hitler's friend!!!(Duce)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler

Italy finally declared war on Britain and France on June 10, 1940.[38] Italy joined the Germans in the Battle of France, fighting the fortified Alpine Line at the border:

there was Italian advances in Sudan and Kenya.Germany finally supported Italy with the Afrika Korps, with fighting continuing on long into 1941 when Gondar was lost in November.[44] Italy was part of the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia, which was greatly successful, the same month the Battle of Greece ended in Italian victory with Axis support.[45] With the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union, Mussolini declared war on the Soviet Union in June 1941 and sent an army to fight there. After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, he declared war on the United States.[42]

Sandro,please, say your parents belonged to the group of Communist Italian partisans

only to be captured and summarily executed near Lake Como by Communist Italian partisans.

[KenC]

"Apples and oranges", Serebro.  There is no parrallel in your rwo examples.  What happened on 9/11 could be compared to the Children killed by the Chechens though.
KenC

[Serebro]

"Apples and oranges", Serebro.  There is no parrallel in your rwo examples.  What happened on 9/11 could be compared to the Children killed by the Chechens though.
KenC

KenC, you are pathetic in your efforts to contradict me anywhere, grow up and stop seeing contradiction everywhere, I was in your stream that way...

I didn't speak about REASONS, I spoke about NUMBERS....

[Gator]

You know what Churchill had to say upon learning that Italy joined with the Nazis?  Sandro can correct me, yet it went something like. "We had them in WW I.  It is only fair that Germany has them for WWII."

Meaning that it did not matter.  In 1939, Italy was not as prominent of a world economic power as it is today.  The way Italy folded showed that the Italians were not "patriotic" about fascist ideology.

[Shadow]

You know what Churchill had to say upon learning that Italy joined with the Nazis?  Sandro can correct me, yet it went something like. "We had them in WW I.  It is only fair that Germany has them for WWII."

Meaning that it did not matter.  In 1939, Italy was not as prominent of a world economic power as it is today.  The way Italy folded showed that the Italians were not "patriotic" about fascist ideology.

Where did I hear that the Italians are the only nation with 5 reverse gears on their tanks ? 
Looking at Italian politics it seems that most Italians do not even care who leads their country.
Which actually seems to make sense. 

[SANDRO43]

I am sorry, I missed that....

Not universally known, I admit, but an extra mouth to feed meant depriving the Army of some food and other items, as shown by our ration cards (http://www.floriani.it/documenti-eng.htm) .

Sandro, you are from Italy!!!!!!!!!!!!It was fashist!!!

Yes, but not all Italians were Fascists, my family one of the many exceptions. Actually, my grandfather was a friend of Mussolini's when the latter was a Socialist and an Interventionist in pre-WWI days. He was offered by his former friend the post of Minister of Finances in the late 1920s, which he flatly refused.

Sandro,please, say your parents belonged to the group of Communist Italian partisans

Sorry, my mother was rather busy with me, and my father, after the Italian surrender of 8th September, 1943, joined for a few months a non-Communist guerrilla band in the mountain area close to where we lived (http://www.floriani.it/8settembre-eng.htm).

[Serebro]

  The way Italy folded showed that the Italians were not "patriotic" about fascist ideology.

what about squares full of people repeating "Duce"?!

[SANDRO43]

You know what Churchill had to say upon learning that Italy joined with the Nazis?  Sandro can correct me, yet it went something like. "We had them in WW I. It is only fair that Germany has them for WWII."

Probably, after assiduously courting Mussolini in the late 1930s (even hinting at a possible 'reassessment' of Britain's position on Italy's conquest of Ethiopia), in the hope of keeping Italy out of the impending war, sounding much like a spurned lover .

Meaning that it did not matter. In 1939, Italy was not as prominent of a world economic power as it is today.

Perhaps, but the Royal Italian Navy at the time was something to pause and ponder about (at least on paper) in the Mediterranean area.

[Serebro]

Sorry, my mother was rather busy with me, and my father, after the Italian surrender of 8th September, 1943, joined for a few months a non-Communist guerrilla band in the mountain area close to where we lived (http://www.floriani.it/8settembre-eng.htm).

Why did you turn east to find a wife among (ex)Communists?!

[SANDRO43]

Where did I hear that the Italians are the only nation with 5 reverse gears on their tanks ?

Not an unreasonable assumption, considering the sort of tanks we had .

The real problem was, however, the quality of the respective armament , quality and quantity of supplies, and logistic organization (had one had it!). In terms of armored vehicles, the Italians deployed 339 L3 light tanks, 8 (eight!) Fiat 3000, and 7 (seven!) armored cars.

Looking at Italian politics it seems that most Italians do not even care who leads their country.

Yes, it appears that we're going to have another 5 years of Bloody Berlusconi . But then, considering some other examples of returning Premiers/Presidents around the world, perhaps we should not complain .

[SANDRO43]

Why did you turn east to find a wife among (ex) Communists?!

Old family tradition (http://www.floriani.it/nonnaeugenia-eng.htm), and Communists have long been gone now .

[Gator]

Probably, after assiduously courting Mussolini in the late 1930s (even hinting at a possible 'reassessment' of Britain's position on Italy's conquest of Ethiopia), in the hope of keeping Italy out of the impending war, sounding much like a spurned lover .Perhaps, but the Royal Italian Navy at the time was something to pause and ponder about (at least on paper) in the Mediterranean area.

Agreed, Italy had a very stylish Navy.  And what happened ....

[turniptruck]

Those wiley brits!

[tim 360]

In the USA most people don't know very much about Russias pivotal role in WWII.  That also depends on education too because in college I did learn about the Eastern Front, but even that was small in comparison to the huge role Russia did play.  Russia took the brunt of Nazi fury.  The #'s are just staggering.  

However, on the History channel there have been some excellent shows detailing Russias role in WWII.  There was footage of an incredible tank and aerial battle at Kursk that was just amazing to see.  I believe it was the largest battle in WWII in terms of manpower, artillery, tanks and planes.  

I think that years ago right after WWII ended the Cold War began and Russia's major role was downplayed by the west.  

Also, Russia also downplayed the role of the west.  I had RW friend, University red diploma and she would argue with me that the US did not fight in WWII.  "This I was not taught".  

Stalin went nuts when Hitler invaded since he thought their treaty meant something.  It was but a piece of paper to Hitler.  The Nazi's knew that Stalin had recently purged 90% of his officers and thought the moment was ripe for conquest.  Bad idea.  Russia suffered greatly but the Nazi's lost.

[SANDRO43]

Agreed, Italy had a very stylish Navy.  And what happened ....

Let's say that their performance, on the whole, was not up to justifiable expectations .

On the night of 11th-12th November, 1940 a daring attack by Swordfish torpedo bombers from HMS Illustrious disabled for a year three battleships at anchor in the Taranto Fleet Base.

Worse was the fleet action off Cape Matapan on 27th-29th March, 1941. The Germans had requested our Navy to cut off the British Alexandria-to-Greece resupply route, so they staged this fleet operation in great secrecy (they thought) involving 1 battleship, 6 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers and 17 destroyers.

They were intercepted by a combined RN-RAN fleet of 3 battleships, 1 aircraft carrier, 4 light cruisers, 21 destroyers. The crucial part of the action was fought during the night of 28th March. The RIN ships had no radar, and their losses were: 1 battleship damaged, 3 cruisers and 2 destroyers sunk.

After that, the RIN was rather shy about entering major fleet engagements, and furious debates arose as to how the British could have been so accurately informed on our fleet movements, treason also being suspected by some (the RIN being predominantly staffed by monarchist officers with no great love for Fascism).

It was discovered only some 40 years later that the German Luftwaffe Commands in Sicily and Greece had been chattering away for days on the details of the operation on their Enigma machines to coordinate their air coverage, and that their messages had been decoded and duly passed on to Admiral Cunningham in Alexandria .