How To Select the Right One?

[Gator]

It's a good thing for me that I didn't know about RWD before I went, because the advice many would have given here would have doomed my relationship. 

KenC questioned this with a logical example.  However, there is so much more relationship advice given than Ken's example. 

I assume by your statement that you broke many guidelines, and the RWD quarterbacks would have told you "Don't Do That" or "Walk Away."  Jet did a retrospective Trip Report and his was a primo WOVO example, yet he admitted to breaking several commandments and guidelines.

I too broke many guidelines such as first meeting women not in their rustbelt town, sending travel money before meeting them, etc.

And that was just the beginning.  After settling down with one woman, I broke more rules.

[Jumper]

i hope me thoughts  about kiev are  taken as i intended.
my thougts were on the agencies BASED there, and a guy going thru them to meet *many*.
thats far different than the representation of the city itself, or the people there.

ms_mobyru stated

It is interesting to note that the most vociferous WMVM advocates are still looking themselves

actually most here debating are certainly not looking ?and are happily married.
I'm married almost 5 years now.. known her for a few years longer

more importantly,and to the point-
  
my wife would tell ANY RW she knows,
to meet as many propects as she possibly could,if entertaining the idea of marrying a foriegn man.
and if you could line them up for meeting over the course of a month or two, better still.

and guess that many of the wives here would say similar..
(even if they felt there 'man" should come see only them )

not all,
but many of your typical pragamatic ,practical RW, if given the scenerio would certainly line up the foriegn men to meet  and greet.. and take thier pick,
 if they are serious about relocation.
if talking generalities, which is what we are regulated too?

So define the actually difference in these scenerios, , besides location of meeting..and gender,  and i'll gladly step off the soapbox  

until then i'll state that i simply dated,as i would anywhere else.
 but my commute was longer than average.
i relocated my job to shorten it ,but it was still a short flight.
if i had relocated further to a car drive across the city.
 it would meet anyones sensibilities.

now THAT's what i find odd.


 
odd note-
 I saw my wife in a old fashioned MOB catalog.yes catalog.
ohh the irony lol .As it was long AFTER we had been in a long term relationship.. and she had no idea she was in that, nor had ever signed up with that particular agency and never recieved any correspondence thru them.While my wife did sign up at a small local agency.. you have no idea how many profiles are taken from modeling agencies and the girls have no idea they are listed on some website for foriegn brides. or they do know, and they were paid for the photos, or got their modeling portfolio they originally went in to shot for,  at a slight discount..  
lots of crazy things go on in the FSU..

meeting several people thru a dating agency,much like some people would do in thier home countries dating agency..
 is the least of them.



 

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC,  Gator pretty well answered for me.  As to your example, looking back, I would definitely have had a few numbers in my back pocket, but nothing more, and especially not preset plans to meet any other woman.  As some have stated, their wives would have dropped them like a hot potato had they been aware of this, and mine would have done the same. What I was referring to as far as advice, I have seen several here done something that I did and they were told in no uncertain terms to run as fast as they could.  There were many aspects of our relationship that were not conventional and would have raised red flags with many here and it would have been impossible to outline the reasons why, in our case, it made sense.

Again, let me state that in 99% of the cases, it would serve one well to listen very carefully to those here with experience and good advice (As long as you first sort out to whom that applies).

[Jumper]

I/O

granted there is no quarter given for travel. as for myself, i never expected any

your point should be devled into a bit-
 the woman not only gives no  credit for , but in fact
romaticizes and expects more from the traveler than she would if you lived across town?

maybe , maybe not? but thats the picture being drawn.

and expectationsare raised (and for what good reasons between two strangers? because its somehow more nobile or romatic?)

the man traviling across continents, must be indeed the romantic white knight  ,
 never another woman to cross his path or mind..
forbid if he has another phone number in his pocket if all goes south..??

while the local man is actually expected that he *may* meet another at lunch ,,before he takes her out to dinner untill in an established relationship.
or are we living in the fantasy land that a RW would never date a local man she just met and dint know??

IO said

Ahhhhhhh this thread has potential................  VO vs VM and even a hint of Moscow vs Kiev, so all we need is a dollop of city vs country to complete the 40 page mix.

naw you'd have to drop in age gaps..


and the fact that a huge percentage of RW would never sign up at any agency,
thats considered a bit "odd" , and many would not  consider relocation to another country.

the RW that are very strongly opinionated about a man visting only her..
i would venture may not sign up at an agency at all, and go thru other means to get intouch with a western man if shes so inclined.

I think a poll of the married WOVO members would demonstate that..
(i could be wrong)

[I/O]

AJ: You open more questions than you close. Define an agency? Is not a dating site an agency? .....................uh oh it kinda gets tricky doesn't it. Define WOVO? One who only ever wrote one and only ever visited one. Or one who wrote a few and visited one. Or one who started the VM thing and changed to VO. Or one who made several trips and only visited one on each trip or....................? Bugger..!!! It's all too hard for my tiny brain.

OK, this thread was always going in this direction so here's a variant. WNVN, which I could claim, on one hand, to be. Mrs I/O wrote me and visited me so how does that work? Musta been that smooth (I'm sure you've noticed it here) irresistible magnetic attraction I was exuding? BTW, she was so financially desperate to get out she even shouted herself a ticket.

the man traviling across continents, must be indeed the romantic white knight  ,
 never another woman to cross his path or mind..
forbid if he has another phone number in his pocket if all goes south..??

And.......tell me that most women don't think that way to an extent? You are spot on. A local man must be drafted out from the other women, but a traveling man must never be allowed to see them. Very double standard, particularly in light of it being highly likely she has seen a couple of foreign punters past her door also. Nevertheless, double standard though it is, it is the way it is for the most part. It's a game in which the naive rarely win. 

Back to the OP, How to select? The first thing he needs to do is work out WHO he is going to meet and asking advice on how to select is a bit silly IMO because if he has some idea of the type of person he wants, it should be obvious who does and who doesn't fit roughly into the criteria. After that, it's a case of working out HOW he is going to meet.

My VM routine, when I finally decided to do something about seriously meeting someone, about my umpteenth international holiday, was done simply on the basis of writing or calling and inviting whomever for a date on X day/night @ X cafe or whatever. I never said more or less. They were not stupid and would have known I wasn't flying half way around the world for a coffee date, but by the same token, there was nothing more committed to. Did I keep the campfire burning by briefly contacting them a few times leading up to the date to ensure they were still available? Of course...............it's a game to some extent whether we like it or not, but the role I played with the VM thing was as if they lived around the corner. I made no issue whatsoever of travel. There was time enough to discuss that AFTER meeting.

Doing it that way, I did a deal of homework and planning before contacting anyone, although I had perhaps browsed their profiles so to say. FWIW, I met 7 ladies in two days without any hassle, then got totally bored with it, shut up shop and went swimming for a week LOL. It hit me whilst I was lazing on the beach that I was actually not very interested in getting married. That's when I decided to quit wasting money on this nonsense and stay home LOL. Silly idea, because sometime later I received that letter from Mrs I/O.    If only I'd had the sense to keep doing what I was doing........................I could still be doing it.

I/O

[Ooooops]

How To Select the Right One?

You don't select the right one, you know that it's the right one.   

[Ooooops]

oooops...  glitch... 

[KenC]

KenC: Hilarity? Well yes sir I agree and I always get a giggle out of reading your arguments on this subject. Your experience in on line debates serves you very well, in fact much better than does the evidence of your own experience on this subject. Technically, you did the VM thing, but in spite of all your arguments to the contrary, it was VO with a couple of vague reference points. Nothing more.

Your cover on this one was blown IMO, once and for all in your retrospective trip report. IIRC you or your dear wife mentioned that SHE knew damned well you were in love with her and SHE knew you simply needed time to figure out the blindingly obvious. You are very quick to forget the thing most men also forget, that is, SHE knows all.

I/O,
No matter where Lena assumed my heart to be, I still played it coy and met others!  In the end she was right but I will always be glad that I met the other women.  Meeting them made Lena stand out even more so in my mind.  Don't get me wrong as I met some very beautiful and VERY interested women other than Lena, but alas none of them were as special as Lena was to me.  Meeting the others gave me a guide to judge her against other RW not just AW also.

You don't select the right one, you know that it's the right one.  

Oops,
Ain't that the truth!!! :hipdude:
KenC

[Ooooops]

Oops,
Ain't that the truth!!! :hipdude:

 

[msmoby_ru]

Hi Gator

Firstly, I wish to apologise for confusing you and Greg   !

By the Way.  What's Different About Kiev?

I have met women in Kiev and other Ukrainian cities in 2002 and 2005.

I have met women in Moscow and other Russian cities in 2002 and 2005. 

Frankly, I did not see a difference other than Muscovites were a little more demanding and there were more approachable, stunning single women in the Big Three Cities.  However, Kiev did not impress me as lending to a different approach.

This is now 2008, and Ukraine has now been Visa free for four years - not the case in 2002, and it was relatively new in 2005...the "world" has realised and the floodgates opened !

I visit Kiev regularly, and I'm constantly (even though prepared) surprised by the changes there.

Is is far more Western European in atmosphere - it's lack of visa restrictions mean it is becoming a place where men from other European countries go for "stag parties" before weddings, and ladies from Kiev get more visits from western men. This means the ladies are more "savvy" and have a better choice of men, more choosy!? I reckon the WMVM mentality is "spoliling" it for those that follow

I always feel more comfortable as a foreigner in Kiev, asnd increasingly so, as the differences to other W.European cities diminish...

Russia, which I also visit regularly, has become more "xenophobic" and inward looking. Things seemed to be getting more autocratic, again .. but I confess the "visa" free -if you had a ticket- European Soccer final- was a great success, so may be Russia might learn something positive from that experience.

Moscow, and SPb (during the "white nights") are becoming very expensive places to eat out and stay, if you are starting out in a search for a FSU.. I think I'd "target" smaller, regional cities, now..There are plenty of good FSU women who have never dated a WM there - may be talked/ emailed.. but not actually MET... much fewer men go south or east in Russia.

[Ooooops]

By the way - there is much to do in Kiev besides speed dating Ukrainian ladies.      So even if you won't find the one - you'll have an interesting vacation.   Make sure to go down into the tunnels of Lavra to see the mummies.   I really like the place with all those flickering candles and dark corners...   Absolutely beautiful icons and Orthodox crosses for sale as well.  Oh, and chestnut trees should be blooming now, so it'll be very pretty...   

[I/O]

if you are starting out in a search for a FSU.. I think I'd "target" smaller, regional cities, now..There are plenty of good FSU women who have never dated a WM there - may be talked/ emailed.. but not actually MET... much fewer men go south or east in Russia.

msmoby_ru: 2 questions if I may, why would you target the regional cities? And.......if part of that answer is the ladies may not have met or been involved with a WM, what would you see as the benefit of being the first WM they have met/dated/whatever?

I/O

[Ronnie]

Saying you'll know the right one when you find her is not really so accurate or maybe it's accurate but not useful.  What I mean by that is that we men has a propensity to not use our heads when chosing our future wives or use them only to the extent that our eyes are located in our heads!

I remember coming back from my first trip and immediately planned my return.  In the meanwhile I nearly drove myself crazy looking at the photos of me and that beautiful blonde-haired doll with her head on my shoulder and arms around my neck.  Three weeks into my second trip, I began to realized this gal had nothing to offer but her good looks.

I felt like the greenhorn 49er who finally realizes that that all that glitters isn't gold.

[msmoby_ru]

msmoby_ru: 2 questions if I may, why would you target the regional cities? And.......if part of that answer is the ladies may not have met or been involved with a WM, what would you see as the benefit of being the first WM they have met/dated/whatever?

I/O

Hi I/O

1/ why would you target the regional cities?

 - based on what my Wife said - she has lots of friends that would like to "meet a good husband".... I note Pike claims that all these ladies will be on Russian dating sites already...we don't agree, btw)

I wasn't looking so far myself - but if you've come across continents, already ....

She only joined the site, where we met, as she had a friend of a friend married a AM and her Mother and that friend "bent her arm" to put up a profile .... I wasn't a member, then, and she SAYS  she had lots of "Keyboard Romeos" ( love this phrase) and "promises" to meet when in Moscow ... a bit like me saying to a New York "gal" .. "I'll look you up, when in LA"... As previously mentioned, she wondered why (for example) a guy would be coming for 2 weeks and only be able to spare her 4 days..

I arrived on the scene and we met within 7 weeks

2/ And.......if part of that answer is the ladies may not have met or been involved with a WM, what would you see as the benefit of being the first WM they have met/dated/whatever?

Well, I was the first WM she met and I married the girl !!   ( that's a story for another time!). Really, I can't help thinking that if she lived in Moscow / Kiev, she'd have been snapped up, before I even knew she existed. She lives a further 4 times zones east of Moscow ( 5 hours by plane)

[Ooooops]

msmoby_ru: 2 questions if I may, why would you target the regional cities?

I'm not msmoby_ru, but the obvious answer jumps to ming - it's better to be a big fish in small pond, you know.   

[msmoby_ru]

I'm not msmoby_ru, but the obvious answer jumps to ming - it's better to be a big fish in small pond, you know.   

jumps to "ming"??!!

 Now THAT'S an Oooops 

No, offence taken

[I/O]

I wasn't looking so far myself - but if you've come across continents, already ....

You poor beggars, my heart bleeds, what a whole 5 hours from London to Moscow or is it 4? From down here, we almost drive that far before we find an airport to get off this island LOL. My last 5 hour flight East from Moscow landed me in driving rain at Irkutsk. BTW we had a trifling 45 hours connection to get skin to skin. Count your blessings my man.

I note Pike claims that all these ladies will be on Russian dating sites already

Pike might be closer to the mark than you estimate. The internet personals thing in Russia is far bigger than I first anticipated.

she had lots of "Keyboard Romeos" ( love this phrase) and "promises" to meet when in Moscow ... a bit like me saying to a New York "gal" .. "I'll look you up, when in LA"

Just another sad indictment on the geography taught in many western schools..........basically none, or none of use.

As previously mentioned, she wondered why (for example) a guy would be coming for 2 weeks and only be able to spare her 4 days.

Too many give the game away before they even get on the field. They could have at least kept her guessing by saying I will come visit you for 4 days and not said more? I have the social graces of a wounded rhino, but even I could tiptoe around that one. Anyway, their bad and your good. I was simply curious to understand why you might have been implying men should bypass the two largest cities in favour of the regionals.

I/O

[Ooooops]

jumps to "ming"??!!

 Now THAT'S an Oooops 

It's not an oooops, it's a typo, you silly.   

[msmoby_ru]

It's not an oooops, it's a typo, you silly.   

May be the use of *Ming* "she's a Minger" in UK English, doesn't mean the same to you?!!

One HELL of a typo ...

[Ooooops]

May be the use of *Ming* "she's a Minger" in UK English, doesn't mean the same to you?!!

Never heard of it, sorry.   The only Ming that comes to mind is Ming Dynasty in China.   

[I/O]

  Only the Irishman can deliver the Coupe de Grath'.

I/O

[msmoby_ru]

You poor beggars, my heart bleeds, what a whole 5 hours from London to Moscow or is it 4?

Well IF I'd been flying all the time from London - it's normally 19.5 hours door to door ( incl layovers ) !...Flying from Cyprus a little less  45 hours door to door.. ? RESPECT, man !! I think I'd meet in Thailand !!

Pike might be closer to the mark than you estimate. The internet personals thing in Russia is far bigger than I first anticipated.

I still disagree..!  Based on my personal experience the further away from Kiev/ Moscow SPb you get the more I'm certain I'm right..  I'm not even going to look myself - you need to register - but the likes of dating.ru, et all show ladies profiles who haven't logged on for quite some time, and if you work out the size of the cities the number of ladies is a fraction of the "singles" action.

I was simply curious to understand why you might have been implying men should bypass the two largest cities in favour of the regionals.

Worked for me

I/O

[Ronnie]

Worked for me

Understatement of the year!

[Doll]

Worked for me

Big Irish fish!

[Misha]

I note Pike claims that all these ladies will be on Russian dating sites already...we don't agree, btw)

Why? As an experiment, I would take one woman from Elena's Models and try to find her on the free sites. I would invariably find her.

There are over 1 million women on the free Russian dating sites. It sometimes seems as if every single woman with access to the internet is on a Russian dating site.

Personally, I would be worried if a woman was not on a free Russian dating site. As a woman's chances of finding a foreign husband via an agency (less than 5% from what I have read), a woman who is truly looking for a good husband won't automatically discount local contenders. The women, therefore, who are more likely to be only on agency sites are: scammers and women who are in it solely for the new passport.