To Tell The Truth

[Doll]

Tell me this joke

[Wienerin]

Billy,
If you used data collected from many (600) women to pare down your list of acceptable women with which to proceed, why is it wrong for a woman to do the same?  I would think that when a woman asks how the man lives, it is a rather good question.  Don't you think the women have a right to compare what it is the man is offering up to other men?  And yes, the ability to provide is an acceptable criteria in my book.
KenC

In mine - too. After all we are talking abour mature people (mostly, though on RW forums I've met some 20 y.o. starry-eyed babes with unrealistic expectations - well... let's not talk about these sad things ) with certain life baggage, experience and expectations. Nobody is in this mating business to make their lives worse 

And yes, if one is bringing a spouse to another country, that spouse has a right to know how they will live before she|he'll be able to work, IF she is not supposed ro work, if and when there are children, someone falls sick, etc.

I will go even further - if a prospect look promising, that is the couple are seriously rhinking of becoming a couple, the disclosure of not only assets (from both sides ) but liabilities also is due. The American should state not only the obvious - mortgages, debts, returement contributions, insurance, etc., but children support, etc. The Russian - likewise say, whether she expects her bridegroom to support her family in Russia, have them over for long stays, bring them over eventually for permanent residence, etc.

I've have seen such a lot of problems on both sides when these necessary things were not said, talked over and came out as a nasty surprise!

See, for a Russian it's obvious and doesn't need to be verbalised, that eventually she|he will want to bring her aging parents over - to live with you. The concept that is almost totally ridiculous for an American. Does this spell trouble? You bet! And so on, and so forth...

(Though I very much doubt that writing|reading letters with some 600 within a short time is very conductive to a proper analysis of the prospects with each and every one of the ladies )

[BillyB]

What is enough? Just out of curiosity

Gator had a good answer and that is what makes both people happy but one can ask what makes both people happy? What is enough for me when it comes to money or what I consider is a decent living or makes me happy? At a minimum living in a average home, owning an average car, and able to support a wife and kids. With owning that and being able to support a family in America, I'd figure I'd rank in the top 20% of the richest people in the World. I'm happy with that and I'd lke to find a woman like that too instead of having to keep her happy by having to buy her the latest sports car every other year. I do have a higher drive than most to excel so I may end up with more than I be happy with based on the fruits of my labor.

[KenC]

Gator had a good answer and that is what makes both people happy but one can ask what makes both people happy? What is enough for me when it comes to money or what I consider is a decent living or makes me happy? At a minimum living in a average home, owning an average car, and able to support a wife and kids. With owning that and being able to support a family in America, I'd figure I'd rank in the top 20% of the richest people in the World. I'm happy with that and I'd lke to find a woman like that too instead of having to keep her happy by having to buy her the latest sports car every other year. I do have a higher drive than most to excel so I may end up with more than I be happy with based on the fruits of my labor.

Billy,
Everything you write here is subjective to your opinion.  "Decent, above average, enough to support, I'd figure, may end up" dosen't reveal anything of substance to the woman and is purposely evasive on it's face.  These women are weighed and measured with many details of their lives exposed in their agency listings, why is it so difficult to be open and honest about your situation?  Why is it not a two way street?

In the OP, it was asked how to handle certain questions that naturally arise from this process.  He should answer them openly and honestly without trying to be too evasive IMO.  If the man is of wealth, he should not get into too much detail until later in the relationship, but he shouldn't mislead the women either.
KenC

[Doll]

 Billy, is 40K decent? With house payments, 2-3 kids ?

[Ronnie]

Here you go Doll...read it and weep:

The Husband Store
A brand new store has just opened in New York City that sells Husbands.
When women go to choose a husband, they have to follow the instructions at the entrance:

You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are 6 floors and the value of
the products increase as you ascend the flights. You may choose any item
from a particular floor, or may choose to go up to the next floor, but you
CANNOT go back down except to exit the building.

So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband.
The 1st floor sign on the door reads:
Floor 1: These men have jobs.
The 2nd floor sign reads:
Floor 2: These men have Jobs and Love Kids.
The 3rd floor sign reads:
Floor 3: These men have Jobs, Love Kids and are extremely good looking.
"Wow," she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.
She goes to the 4th floor and the sign reads:
Floor 4: These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking and help with Housework.
"Oh, mercy me!" she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it!"
Still, she goes to the 5th floor and sign reads:
Floor 5: These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, help with Housework and Have a Strong Romantic Streak.

She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the 6th floor and the sign reads:
Floor 6: You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor.
There are no men on this floor.
This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please.
Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.

To avoid gender bias charges, the store's owner opens a New Wives store just across the street.
The 1st first floor has wives that love sex.
The 2nd floor has wives that love sex and have money.
The 3rd,4th, 5th and 6th floors have never been visited.

[Doll]

 
Mine is the second floor (depending how much he makes  )

[Ronnie]

Mine is the second floor (depending how much he makes  )

Hey! That's not weeping!  You're suppost to be weeping.  Weep, woman, weep.  :crackthewhip:

[Doll]

Hey! That's not weeping!  You're suppost to be weeping.  Weep, woman, weep.  :crackthewhip:

Noooooooooooo! this is exactly how I chose the husband, made mistake though regarding kids- he only loves his ( I am weeping). I was not smart enough to understand it right away.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,
Don't you think the local ladies have an upper hand on that?  They see your ride and where you live and probably know of the company you work at.  These are all tell tale signs not available to a RW.  You must also consider that a RW is potentially going to turn her life upside down by moving to a strange country and culture.  They have a bit more at risk than the local ladies.
KenC

KenC..... I suppose they might to a certain degree if your "flashy". But then it could just as easily be perceived as overstated and in hock up to ones eyeballs. I know a lot of people and some want others to think they're more successful than they are and yet others are just as intent as hiding it. My intention on that question to groov was to try and figure out how much should be revealed and when. I really don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the question, but one that would suit the individual. FWIW My last long relationship with a local woman was 3 years and she never knew or saw my portfolio. But we never discussed marriage either, on purpose

FP, I had in-depth discussions about finances with my then GF prior to our engagement. I didn't send my most recent tax returns along with photos when we were courting. Our financial discussions were part of many discussions we had about our future goals while getting to know each other. Quite honestly, my wife's situation was unique - this sort of statement has become a cliche around here, but my wife had a very high standard of living in Moscow so I never had any doubts about her motivations while we were dating. She had a great career in Moscow and one of the issues she had to accept when she agreed to marry me is that she'd have to start all over again here and it would undoubtedly be greatly frustrating to her. I made sure she knew this and knew it well prior to her arrival. And then some.

We haven't yet made it to the 2-year mark but I'm proud to say that we have never had a disagreement over money. I can't say that about any woman in my past whom I dated seriously. While most of the credit goes to her I am very, very happy that I took the time to explain finances and expectations to her, in-depth over the course of weeks and months even, before she stepped on a plane.

I dated dozens of RW before I met my wife and I routinely sent photos of my apartment and neighborhood, recent vacations in Europe, etc. to prospective women. I didn't write about my net worth, but I didn't hide the truth like some storybook prince posing as a beggar in a fable about true love.

No, but every local woman I dated after uni was smart enough to pin where I stood on the financial ladder within a few dates.

I don't question your methods or reasoning for doing so but rather just trying to understand why you did and where in this process I should. I am certainly not looking to hide any truth like some storybook prince and I am in no way posing as a beggar. Quite the opposite. Nobody knows my net worth but myself and that has been by design. The difference in your situation and mine is I actually live a lifestyle below my ability. Not on purpose per se' but just no desire to buy things or live places I don't really want. The FSU I am involved with lifestyle would change dramatically for the good upwards.

As I stated above I don't know or don't think there is a right way or wrong way to release financial information to the woman in ones life. It's just something I've never been comfortable doing and trying to "grease" myself up so to speak.

[Doll]

Billy, is 40K decent? With house payments, 2-3 kids ?

45K?
50K?
Billyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! 

[BillyB]

Billy,
Everything you write here is subjective to your opinion.  "Decent, above average, enough to support, I'd figure, may end up" dosen't reveal anything of substance to the woman and is purposely evasive on it's face.  These women are weighed and measured with many details of their lives exposed in their agency listings, why is it so difficult to be open and honest about your situation?  Why is it not a two way street?

Yes, what I've said is my opinion and whether I tell a woman I make a five figure income or six figure income will be her opinion of if that's enough to support her lifestyle sop in the end, it's everyone's opinon on what's right for them. And everyone's opinon is based on what they are told whether it's true or not. Yesterday in the front page of a major Seattle newspaper was a story of a man who dated women off of Craigslist. He told them he worked with the Seattle Sonics basketball team and had a good position there and that means $. He admitted he said that to get sex from women he dated and he was successful. He was obviously a fake. But it didn't matter, women opened their legs quickly ba$ed on what they initially heard instead of observing his lifestyle over time and if he has a pattern of keeping his word.

I am honest with my situation and the way I present it, I have a minimum chance on getting used. Sure I know if I tell them I'm the owner of a company instead of working management in a constuction company, more women will be open to dating me and sex will come easier but I don't need to do that because I feel I have enough attractive qualities to get a quality woman without any help of my status in life. I also practice what I preach, I don't ask women what they make during dating. When it comes to money, I judge them based on how they spend theirs and if they live within their means and that takes time to understand. If the woman is an attorney making $200,000 a year driving a sports car and is in debt, then they are probably going to need a man to help fund their lifestyle. Not me. I prefer to find someone who has their act together. If a woman has a set amount of money she wants a potential husband to make a year before marrying, maybe $200,000, that's her right to set a dollar figure. Her potential husband should know that if he loses his job or business for a short period of time, he may lose her. Not every woman is label a prostitute but some do have a price set they will open their legs for.

I know a woman through some other people. She divorced her low wage husband for a guy who owned a business. She then dated two attorneys, one who represented her at her divorce trial and the judge who presided over the trial. Of course her ex was cleaned out. She then dated a nuclear engineer but met a doctor who owned his own business and told him if he wanted to be with her, he would have to divorce his wife and come and personally move her out of her engineer's boyfriends house. The doctor did and is now married to her. She is living a fancy lifestlye. It's her right to place more importance in men with money over men with charcater. Those type of women aren't for me and I do take precautions to avoid them. Some may think it's dishonest for not disclosing exact $ figures during dating, other's may think it's smart.

I think many women will be pleasantly surprised to know that I'm better off than I make myself to be once they get into a relationship with me. They will also admire/respect me more for not using money to win them over. Of course this applies to sincere women.

Billy, is 40K decent? With house payments, 2-3 kids ?

If it meets the criteria I mentioned in my last post, yes. It depends on what area of the USA you're living in. 40,000 is fine in one place but not in another.

[Pike]

If a woman has a set amount of money she wants a potential husband to make a year before marrying, maybe $200,000, that's her right to set a dollar figure. Her potential husband should know that if he loses his job or business for a short period of time, he may lose her.

Wealthy man to wife:  Honey, if I were not rich, would you still  love me?

Wife:  Yes, of course . . . and I would miss you also.

[Bob Smith]

Billy,
Everything you write here is subjective to your opinion.  "Decent, above average, enough to support, I'd figure, may end up" dosen't reveal anything of substance to the woman and is purposely evasive on it's face.  These women are weighed and measured with many details of their lives exposed in their agency listings, why is it so difficult to be open and honest about your situation?  Why is it not a two way street?

In the OP, it was asked how to handle certain questions that naturally arise from this process.  He should answer them openly and honestly without trying to be too evasive IMO.  If the man is of wealth, he should not get into too much detail until later in the relationship, but he shouldn't mislead the women either.
KenC

My opinion is lie early and lie often.  I’ve never dated an FSU woman, but I can say this rule applies for ANY woman American, Russian or otherwise.  Sure the agency websites divulge a bunch of stats, but they don’t tell you all the critical information.  How many guys has your lovely FSU wife had climb on top of her?  You will NEVER get this number.  I care about that a heck of a lot more than how many Rubles are in her account.  Unfortunately I will go to the grave never knowing this number.  Even if I get drunk/high and struck on the head by a blunt object, lose my senses, and bother to ask her, I suck at integral calculus.  So Lord knows I’ll botch the math when I plug the number that comes out of her mouth into the algorithm that is supposed to get me in the ball park of the true number.

What’s important to me is the woman’s mental capacity, physiological state, and her physical attributes (including wear and tear).  Let’s be honest.  I’ve seen some of the pictures of the members on this forum and the Brad Pitts are few and far between.  Then you see some of the age disparities… The biggest selling point for a lot of the guys on here is $.  Now unless a woman is going to come clean about her past and give me exact figures I’m not going to give her exact figures about $.  She wants what she wants and I want what I want.  Modern relationships are socially condoned prostitution.  Which is fine.  But I’ve never heard of a John being asked to divulge his tax returns to a prostitute.  And likewise I’ve never heard of a John getting upset because a prostitute isn’t a virgin.

All a woman has to do is tell me just enough so that I don’t believe she is a disease packing whore, and all I have to do is divulge enough so that she is convinced she’s not about to set sail on the financial Titanic.  After that we can let the irrational foolishness that some people call “love” take over.

[groovlstk]

My opinion is lie early and lie often. 

In another thread you brag about your income and looks and seem shocked that you're still single.

My advice would be, "get used to it."

[Lily]

My opinion is lie early and lie often.   


  Now unless a woman is going to come clean about her past and give me exact figures I’m not going to give her exact figures about $. 

Bob, how do you know that she gave you exact figures and came clean about her past? She may well be living by an opinion that you expressed earlier in bold...

[Doll]

All a woman has to do is tell me just enough so that I don’t believe she is a disease packing whore,

I've noticed that guys with these demands attract wh-res

[Blues Fairy]

Bob, with such medieval mentality you should shop for a wife in the Middle East, not in Russia.
We still give a damn about women's dignity. 

[Pike]

]How many guys has your lovely FSU wife had climb on top of her?

I don't understand why this number would be important to the relationship.
And what is a good number?  Zero or some other number?  Would 3 be OK, but 4 not acceptable?
Maybe 10 but not 11.

I don't understand why any man would ever want to actually know this number. 

Maybe if the woman says: "You are the best ever in bed," then it might be useful to know how many are in the sample set.  If only 4-6, then you can't really get a feel for if you were really good or not.  But if she says you were the best out of 50; well then that could make you feel pretty good!!  :-))  But is she lying?  Maybe she tells this to all the guys.

So this gets back to the question; why would any man want to know the number??

[Bob Smith]

In another thread you brag about your income and looks and seem shocked that you're still single.

My advice would be, "get used to it."

I don't recall "bragging" about anything.  I think you may have been misunderstood a simple statement of facts.  We're all adults here.  We can handle the truth... well most of us anyway.

I'll freely discuss income anonymously on an internet message board.  There is no way I will discuss anything even close to exact figures with a potential mate.  All they need to know is enough to decide they will have a comfortable life.  If I say I make $50K and I have no debts that puts me well above the median US financial situation.  That's all she needs to know.  I'm not going to go on and on about making $400K/yr.  Most women outside this country wouldn't even know what to make of the real or the false figures.  Believe me.  I've had the conversations.  Even most American women wouldn't know what to make of $400K/yr.

Its a well known fact that many lottery winners end up in worse financial shape after they win the lottery because they simply have no concept of how much that amount of money really is.  What do you think the odds are the average 20 something FSU girl is going to be able to do anything intelligent and beneficial for your long term relationship with that kind of info.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveMoney/8lotteryWinnersWhoLostTheirMillions.aspx?page=2

By the way groovlstk being in a relationship is easy.  This message board is littered with guys that have been in and out of relationships and have a bunch of children living in broken homes.  The weight of the evidence would seem to indicate its more difficult to have your act together and stay single till the time is right and you've found the right person.  Don't worry bro' I am "used to it."  I'm used to not paying alimony, fighting for visitation, or explaining to my little girl why she has two daddies.

[Bob Smith]

Bob, how do you know that she gave you exact figures and came clean about her past? She may well be living by an opinion that you expressed earlier in bold...

I don't ask for this exact reason.  Whatever the answer you can't do anything with the number.  You just try and go through the usual dating behavior as best you can and ascertain her status from a multitude of other factors.  You will never know with absolute certainty which is why I said it shouldn't be a criterion.  Likewise my exact income is irrelevant.  I don't think either question should be asked.  Neither party can do anything with the number that's spat out.  That was the whole point of my post.

I only went on at length about the number to illustrate that there is a number that I would like to know but that is not widely available.  It doesn't mean I wouldn't marry the girl or be obsessed about it.  Likewise girls don't need to know my $ number and they don't need to be obsessed about it.

[Bob Smith]

I've noticed that guys with these demands attract wh-res

Hey Doll,

I didn't mean that literally.  I was just being colourful.  My criteria are a little tighter than that!

[groovlstk]

I'll freely discuss income anonymously on an internet message board.  There is no way I will discuss anything even close to exact figures with a potential mate.  All they need to know is enough to decide they will have a comfortable life. 

That is certainly your business and the business of any women you date. The path I chose when courting my wife worked for me, yet surely one size does not fit all. I will, however, stick my nose in threads when guys profess it's the wrong path or simply doesn't exist.

Some of the more paranoid guys in this pursuit seem to think that hiding their assets is a way of protecting themselves. I'm not a millionaire so perhaps my perspective is different, but if you find a sincere, honest woman who loves you it doesn't take a genius to know that setting financial boundaries will benefit you both.

By the way groovlstk being in a relationship is easy.  This message board is littered with guys that have been in and out of relationships and have a bunch of children living in broken homes.  The weight of the evidence would seem to indicate its more difficult to have your act together and stay single till the time is right and you've found the right person. 

I'm not quite sure I understand. You consider lying and lying often to potential mates as evidence of having your act together? As a way to avoid the fate of being in and out of relationships and having children in broken homes?

[KenC]

My opinion is lie early and lie often.  I’ve never dated an FSU woman, but I can say this rule applies for ANY woman American, Russian or otherwise.  Sure the agency websites divulge a bunch of stats, but they don’t tell you all the critical information.  How many guys has your lovely FSU wife had climb on top of her?  You will NEVER get this number.  I care about that a heck of a lot more than how many Rubles are in her account.  Unfortunately I will go to the grave never knowing this number.  Even if I get drunk/high and struck on the head by a blunt object, lose my senses, and bother to ask her, I suck at integral calculus.  So Lord knows I’ll botch the math when I plug the number that comes out of her mouth into the algorithm that is supposed to get me in the ball park of the true number.

What’s important to me is the woman’s mental capacity, physiological state, and her physical attributes (including wear and tear).  Let’s be honest.  I’ve seen some of the pictures of the members on this forum and the Brad Pitts are few and far between.  Then you see some of the age disparities… The biggest selling point for a lot of the guys on here is $.  Now unless a woman is going to come clean about her past and give me exact figures I’m not going to give her exact figures about $.  She wants what she wants and I want what I want.  Modern relationships are socially condoned prostitution.  Which is fine.  But I’ve never heard of a John being asked to divulge his tax returns to a prostitute.  And likewise I’ve never heard of a John getting upset because a prostitute isn’t a virgin.

All a woman has to do is tell me just enough so that I don’t believe she is a disease packing whore, and all I have to do is divulge enough so that she is convinced she’s not about to set sail on the financial Titanic.  After that we can let the irrational foolishness that some people call “love” take over.

Bob,
You WIN!!!
That is possibly the single most repulsive post I have ever read on RWD.  I really have only one question for you.  If you hold Russian women in such low regard, why bother?  Just stay home!
KenC

[Doll]

Hey Doll,

I didn't mean that literally.  I was just being colourful.  My criteria are a little tighter than that!

you'll get what you want