To Tell The Truth

[KenC]

Billy,
I guess I am saying that if we have the right to "qualify" the ladies, they should also have the right to "qualify" us.  And while I agree with you that questions too probing into the financial area would raise a few red flags, I also do not think that such a vague answer as you give is adequate either.
KenC

[groovlstk]

Billy,
I guess I am saying that if we have the right to "qualify" the ladies, they should also have the right to "qualify" us.  And while I agree with you that questions too probing into the financial area would raise a few red flags, I also do not think that such a vague answer as you give is adequate either.
KenC

I tend to agree w/this. Saying that you can provide comfortably "by American standards" to a woman who's knowledge of life in the US comes chiefly from movies and news reports from the Russian media doesn't really say much.

This is a sticky subject, at least at a relationship's beginning, but to be intentionally vague or secretive will also raise red flags in her mind.

I think a lot of guys in the search phase here are way too conscious of scammers and how to avoid them. 

[BillyB]

I tend to agree w/this. Saying that you can provide comfortably "by American standards" to a woman who's knowledge of life in the US comes chiefly from movies and news reports from the Russian media doesn't really say much.

If what RW know is through movies and news reports, what's giving a dollar figure on what you make is going to do for these women? Tell her you're much poorer than Tom Cruise? If I was a RW on the receiving end of 100 letters, I'd take the hype men talk about themselves and divide it in half to get close to the truth.

Ken, it's okay to qualify someone before you marry them but one can't believe everything they hear. A RW assuming a man telling her what he makes is 100% true is being naive. Also if a guy is a millionare and a magnet for gold diggers, he's either nuts or trying to buy women if he tells them his true worth before she commits to him for who he is on the inside. A smart woman knows if a man is telling/flaunting his wealth in front of her, he's doing it in front of other women to. That's a turn off for most sincere women.

It takes time to get to someone thoroughly to find out if they are trustworthy, reliable and can support a family. If a woman tells me on the first date she's the World's greatest at most everything, it doesn't make me more excited to know her although it may be her intention to do so. I don't take everything I read or hear at face value. Hopefully the RW on the receiving end of men's letter's don't either.

[KenC]

If what RW know is through movies and news reports, what's giving a dollar figure on what you make is going to do for these women? Tell her you're much poorer than Tom Cruise? If I was a RW on the receiving end of 100 letters, I'd take the hype men talk about themselves and divide it in half to get close to the truth.

Ken, it's okay to qualify someone before you marry them but one can't believe everything they hear. A RW assuming a man telling her what he makes is 100% true is being naive.

Which makes it even more important for the man to substantiate himself a little more than "I make enough by American standards to provide for a family"
 

Also if a guy is a millionare and a magnet for gold diggers, he's either nuts or trying to buy women if he tells them his true worth before she commits to him for who he is on the inside. A smart woman knows if a man is telling/flaunting his wealth in front of her, he's doing it in front of other women to. That's a turn off for most sincere women.

Of course.

It takes time to get to someone thoroughly to find out if they are trustworthy, reliable and can support a family. If a woman tells me on the first date she's the World's greatest at most everything, it doesn't make me more excited to know her although it may be her intention to do so. I don't take everything I read or hear at face value. Hopefully the RW on the receiving end of men's letter's don't either.

It is a tricky path to walk,no doubt, but the ladies deserve some accurate criteria on which to base their intentions on too.  If the man is well off, he should be careful not to give too much detail but he also owes it to the lady to give her a some assurances that he can provide well for her.  These assurances have to be a little less vague than you proposed IMO.
KenC

[groovlstk]

If what RW know is through movies and news reports, what's giving a dollar figure on what you make is going to do for these women? Tell her you're much poorer than Tom Cruise? If I was a RW on the receiving end of 100 letters, I'd take the hype men talk about themselves and divide it in half to get close to the truth.

I don't think giving out a dollar figure re: your salary will say much either, especially since most Russian women I dated knew nothing about the tax structure, debt, mortgage vs. rent, etc. in the US.

I simply believe that it's kind of silly for a man to intentionally obscure his living standard as a way to protect himself from scammers. There is a huge difference in a guy sending photos of himself posing in front of a mega-yacht and simply offering a glimpse into what his life is like on a day-to-day basis.

FWIW, my wife knew everything about my salary, living standard, etc. before we became serious. She relies on me to control our finances but since she's working and contributing to our monthly mortgage, she damn sure has every right to access our financial records. 

[msmoby_ru]

Moby,
How many WOVO trips did you make before you found your sweetie?
KenC

One..

[BillyB]

I simply believe that it's kind of silly for a man to intentionally obscure his living standard as a way to protect himself from scammers. There is a huge difference in a guy sending photos of himself posing in front of a mega-yacht and simply offering a glimpse into what his life is like on a day-to-day basis.

FWIW, my wife knew everything about my salary, living standard, etc. before we became serious. She relies on me to control our finances but since she's working and contributing to our monthly mortgage, she damn sure has every right to access our financial records. 

I'm not sure anybody here obscures their salary to protect themselves from scammers. Scammers don't care about how rich or poor you are as long as you send money in any amount.

Groove, your wife may have known every detail about your salary before you married, your choice, but I wouldn't tell any stranger through letters, phone calls or any woman what I make before getting serious. For the record, it has nothing to do with control, I let my ex have full control of my finances when we were married. If a RW I'm not serious with asks me what I make and wants the truth, I'll tell her I make a decent living. That's as much detail I'm putting out and at least I know that if money is her ultimate goal, she'd go find someone else that will spill his beans to bankrupt and she'd quit sticking her nose in my business. When she becomes exclusive with me, then it becomes OUR business.

[Faux Pas]

FWIW, my wife knew everything about my salary, living standard, etc. before we became serious. She relies on me to control our finances but since she's working and contributing to our monthly mortgage, she damn sure has every right to access our financial records. 

groovlstk,

If you were not in pursuit of an FSUW and dating a local woman or just use the last local woman you did date as an example, did you give her all of your financial information?

[KenC]

groovlstk,

If you were not in pursuit of an FSUW and dating a local woman or just use the last local woman you did date as an example, did you give her all of your financial information?

Faux Pas,
Don't you think the local ladies have an upper hand on that?  They see your ride and where you live and probably know of the company you work at.  These are all tell tale signs not available to a RW.  You must also consider that a RW is potentially going to turn her life upside down by moving to a strange country and culture.  They have a bit more at risk than the local ladies.
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

Don't you think the local ladies have an upper hand on that?  They see your ride and where you live and probably know of the company you work at.  These are all tell tale signs not available to a RW.  You must also consider that a RW is potentially going to turn her life upside down by moving to a strange country and culture.  They have a bit more at risk than the local ladies.

Google rules.
If the RW is serious and not a complete idiot, she will find ways to do her due diligence without having to ask tactless questions.

[Gator]

Google rules.
If the RW is serious and not a complete idiot, she will find ways to do her due diligence without having to ask tactless questions.

True!

As a simple starter, she can google his address and get an air photo of his house.

If he claims to own a house, she can get his real estate tax records.  Perhaps the house is jointly owned with a wife (bad sign).

His telephone number is available if not listed privately.  In my case, my telephone number lists my wife's name as well as mine because I never bothered to change it, and she still owns half the house while our younger son continues to reside here.  My RW wife does not like that fact so I will need to buy her half.

His company's name is another place to start.

Yet, BF how many RW who are not "complete idiots" can do this (they understand how and have a fast ISP)

I recall showing this information to my Cossack fiancee.  She did not believe any of it, acting as if I could fabricate all of it.  I never bothered to show her my brokerage accounts.  OTOH, my Moscow woman was very interested when I volunteered to reveal all (after 18 months together).

[groovlstk]

FP, I had in-depth discussions about finances with my then GF prior to our engagement. I didn't send my most recent tax returns along with photos when we were courting. Our financial discussions were part of many discussions we had about our future goals while getting to know each other. Quite honestly, my wife's situation was unique - this sort of statement has become a cliche around here, but my wife had a very high standard of living in Moscow so I never had any doubts about her motivations while we were dating. She had a great career in Moscow and one of the issues she had to accept when she agreed to marry me is that she'd have to start all over again here and it would undoubtedly be greatly frustrating to her. I made sure she knew this and knew it well prior to her arrival. And then some.

We haven't yet made it to the 2-year mark but I'm proud to say that we have never had a disagreement over money. I can't say that about any woman in my past whom I dated seriously. While most of the credit goes to her I am very, very happy that I took the time to explain finances and expectations to her, in-depth over the course of weeks and months even, before she stepped on a plane.

I dated dozens of RW before I met my wife and I routinely sent photos of my apartment and neighborhood, recent vacations in Europe, etc. to prospective women. I didn't write about my net worth, but I didn't hide the truth like some storybook prince posing as a beggar in a fable about true love.

groovlstk,

If you were not in pursuit of an FSUW and dating a local woman or just use the last local woman you did date as an example, did you give her all of your financial information?

No, but every local woman I dated after uni was smart enough to pin where I stood on the financial ladder within a few dates.

[Doll]

I'm all for that and I have told ladies I make enough by American standards to provide for a family.

What is enough? Just out of curiosity

[Gator]

What is enough? Just out of curiosity

It is enough if both people are happy. 

Whatever income one makes will never be enough if one marries a woman who at best is only temporarily satisfied and wants more and more.

[viking]

I would say a 2000 SF home will impress a sincere RW until she learns that you don't own it. 

A 3000 SF home in the Hamptons would be plenty for a shark.  The sharks know.  I recall a conversation with one who asked me about my home.  I did not disclose as much as I could, but did say I had a pool.  She remarked that she preferred a home with an indoor pool.    The encounter was brief.

3000SF in the Hamptons is usually a garage or the pool house that might be used as a guest cottage!! BTW. You dont have an indoor pool?    I have several. They are called bathtubs (ok,ok, so they are SMALL pools) 

[mendeleyev]

3000 sq feet home in burbs is nothing extraordinary, 3000 sq feet townhome in the city - that's totally different story

Oooops, as you perhaps already know in places like America it depends on the city.  On the other hand, this is almost universally true in just about any city in the FSU.  In the USA much value is placed on moving out of city and the value of such a home might often be greater in the suburbs.  A few excepts such as NY City, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Washington DC, Seattle, etc...do exist and these are cities which place a high value on downtown entertainment, shopping, tourism, variety of mass transit, and headquarters of major companies which drives the uniqueness of living in the center of a city.

In Rus or Ukr the центр (the center) is what determines value.  The closer one's apartment is to the seat of government, the best forms of mass transit, the University, etc, is a sign of prestige and wealth.  Size and number of rooms also factors the value.

Its also a national obsession.  Someone in Shuya or Shakhty or Ufa generally looks longingly toward Moscow (or St P) as the центр of all that represents the good life in Russia.  Even in the capital city, Muscovites compare themselves on the basis of who lives "closest to the центр."

Its kind of interesting to note a subtle but important difference of thought between our Eastern and Western worldviews regarding "location."  In the East proximity and being in the center of activity is king.  In the West isolation (privacy) rules supreme.  Perhaps this is nowhere more evident than in the Eastern practice of living in the центр during the week before retreating to a weekend dacha.  In the West we trend toward the opposite by living out in the suburbs during the week and then commuting into the "center" for weekend entertainment or sporting events.

[mendeleyev]

Discussion of salary seems much more acceptable in Slavic culture than in Western.  Westerners feel it to be rude and impolite to ask questions about salary.

Whether it is from centuries of shared living in serfdom, or even the more recent experiment with communism with it's local, regional and national "soviets," and communal living conditions (a common feature also in serfdom), the discussion of salary is more open and a lady may not realize that her questions might be viewed by some as offensive.

Most Russians will freely "compare" such things.  Just give them a half hour over tea and some chocolate and the topic could easily surface.

[Ooooops]

Oooops, as you perhaps already know in places like America it depends on the city. 

To tell you the truth I consider very few places in USA to be "cities", you've listed them later   

A few excepts such as NY City, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Washington DC, Seattle

Minus LA, Phoenix and even Seattle (we just spent last 2 years there)...   So to "live in the city" has a very definite connotation to me.   Living in the middle of Peoria, Illinois, for example, has no such meaning.   

[Ronnie]

The Higher the buildings, the lower the morals...
-Noel Coward

[Ooooops]

The Higher the buildings, the lower the morals...
-Noel Coward

Not true, but funny...   

[Ronnie]

Absolutely true.  I've lived in both country and city.  Double locked doors in the city.  Unlocked doors in the country.  Need I say more?

[Ooooops]

Absolutely true.  I've lived in both country and city.  Double locked doors in the city.  Unlocked doors in the country.  Need I say more?

So did I.   But I didn't know you meant "safety" under "morals", I thought of something else.   

[Ronnie]

So did I.   But I didn't know you meant "safety" under "morals", I thought of something else.   

Safety kinda follows morals doesn't it?  If people behave morally, then there's not much reason to worry about people breaking into your home or stealing your car...though I have to admit I had to put fences around the azaleas to protect the from the deer!  Come to think of it, I also to put up curtains in the house just to ward off those voyeur raccoons.. :seething:

[Doll]

It is enough if both people are happy. 

Whatever income one makes will never be enough if one marries a woman who at best is only temporarily satisfied and wants more and more.

Come on kids! Math is math. Just tell Doll how much- I promise I won't ask for any   

[Ronnie]

Come on kids! Math is math. Just tell Doll how much- I promise I won't ask for any  

I'm sure everyone has heard the joke about the husband store with it's many floors.  I think it's even posted here somewhere so I won't repeat it... too long but too true.