Is it OK to meet with more than one woman on your trip to FSU

[SANDRO43]

If I may be permitted an observation (no offence intended), many Americans seem to be obsessed with the idea of the "How To Successfully ... (whatever)" manual and the concept of "One size fits all".

In human 'sciences' this has never worked, and in 'scientific' sciences too, to a less perceivable extent (witness Goedel and Heisenberg ).

[Jumper]

But, interestingly, the debate also has  the happily married men who have been there, seen it and done it - offering their experience  - and "fessing" that they didn't tell their wives they were on a WM trip, and we have had many contributions from happily married RW - the majority who seem to be pointing out something rather contrary to your conclusions... carry on.

carry on? why not-
my conclusions are just as valid..i'm quite sure i know plenty of  RW/WM couples in person.
and i've seen just as many WMVM be successful in marriage as  WOVO,thats for sure.
(and i've seen plenty of both crash and burn)
Few WMVM were hiding thier intentions to see more than one.
 i'm happily married, been there, done that  as well.
there have been plenty of guys just like me in the past, they are happily married as well.
My wife is certainly a RW, so are many of my friends, none would have an issue with what i've posted.
because my wife's ideals dont coerrespond with yours, or some other RW's just confirms what i was trying to point out.

that the camps shouldnt be so polarized.
and should be more accepting of others thoughts and ideals.
  
Your whole debate back to me is mostly geared on wether the RW and WM is meeting thru an agency.
well most western men are meeting women listed thru an agency.
If you are going to generalize its a poor method, or somehow less moral..
then lets at least accept the concept that MOST WM will be writing to, and meeting RW that are signed up with an introduction agency.
 RW that most  WOVO or WMVM guys write to ,
are generally going to be a RW who signed up at an introduction agency for sole the intent of meeting foriegn men.

there are exceptions, of course.

I notice you did not address a key question,,
that if RW had the same oppurtunity..to visit the west, thru an introduction agency,, what they would do, and how you would view it?
and more importantly how a RW would view it
just dodge that bullet just like anyone else has pressed on it for a decade..
lol

Oh dear, you are making the mistake of comparing apples and oranges, now ...   you can only be referring to a lady and man with agencies..

imagine that?
your quote is reference to agency meetings.
just how do you suppose most WMVM ,in general,  set all thier meetings up?

you are correct, though ,it IS apples to oranges and thats was my whole point.

that it's simply different,
it isn't better or worse,
nor is either on  some higher ethical ground.

very few WMVM ever get all cross rutted about someone going WOVO.
they think it's risky, but fine.
The WOVO crowd, are the ones typically getting on a ethical pedastal about anyone doing it differently.

your whole debate back to me on my points only being relevent if its "agency based meetings" is  silly.

Take the meeting with my wife.
 if she had been off to meet a local man that had hit on her at a local cafe the week before, it would make no difference at all.

 I still wouldn't have cared, it would be none of my business,
and likewise she wouldn't have cared if i met someone else
that night..
we had simply just met, liked each other and decided mutiually to meet again.
and contninue from there if we felt like it..and enjoyed each others company..
no silly pressures or expectations.
we dint have any rights to expect that either of us  see only the  "one"
(i feel i'm trapped in the matrix)

thats completely natural in the dating world.

wether thru an introduction agency ,
or just meeting in the park makes little difference whatsovever.

in the case of an introduction agency a WM,and the RW can meet many individiuals.
same as in the park..and in public places..
so grasp at some other straw.

most of your responce,
puts the WMVM man, into a context you want him to be in, so that you can be "right"

if it makes you feel better,
then i agree that in that LIMITED context  of  a man going to visit many, writing long correspondence and intentionally misleading the people he is going to meet-
 isn't proper.

what a cad.
feel better now?

take the more typical guy out of that limited context,..
a more general WMVM trip.. where he writes little intially ,if any at all other than introduction,  and visits many, and yes mostly it would be ladies signed up with introduction agenciers
(ohh deary that awful word AGAIN introduction agency ..lol)

then he is simply doing something different than a WOVO person.
evaluating the possibilty of a relationship  ,after meeting , instead of attempting to beforehand.


moby- i know quiet well that many RW wouldn't sign up at an introduction agency.
they would certainly be in the WOVO camp, and that is wonderful.
Some will find ways to be in contact with  WM.

The advice here is to newbies looking into this venture,regardless his method,,
just *who * is he most likely to write to? RW with addresses he bought from an introduction agency.

The silliness of debating agency vs non-agency women is for another thread.

 Edaurds post was about it being "ok" to meet many RW on your trip to the FSU.
The average joe, writing to the average RW signed up at an introduction agency,
,it is going to be "ok",
 and  isnt that the whole point?

if a guy wants to go that route, yes it will  be "ok"

yes.  he should be honest of his intentions
(and most RW writing him in this context won't ask silly questions,they couldnt ask a local guy either at first meeting ,or a first date)

no .he shouldnt carry out long correspondence or give false expectations.

 yes, he should expect she will also meet who she can,when she can.

no. he shouldnt expect because he traveled has any impact on meeting one or more ,or if that makes it "ok"

yes, he should certainly expect that if he sets up dates with women signed up an an introduction agency, that just like if he went to a dating agency in his home city,
it would be "ok" ,and completely normal to set up several dates.yes even write ,even  phone them first.

yes, he should recognize that some women,, locally and internationally.,
 would never sign up at any dating agency.
and that by visting more than one,or even by going to a dating agency,
 he will lose the interest of certain good (and bad) ladies.

yes he should also recoginize that their are plenty of RW that simply view this  as dating. no different than locally.they already have busy social lives ,
and no time or inclination to write men to weed out one special one ,that might visit.
it simply isnt thier life, they live quite normal busy lives but are open to the idea of dating someone from another country.
The man wont get any special "pass" for his long dating commute.
(and he shouldn't) the reasonable women understand that in this context , they shouldnt either, it's just a date.

You notice at any time do i say that one method is above another.
they both have thier merits ,postives and negatives.
I respect those doing either method..

 I still would do the same today as i did 7 years ago.
Which was date,no rush, no expectations, and try to keep things as natural as possible.
yes a longer commute.
but in that regard absolutely little different than if i flew to LA back and forth long term to date a AW. (which i had done,and no when we first met i dint go to "just" see only "her"
 and no she wouldnt have asked me if i had some other girl in LA lined up to see
as well. as at that early point it would be none of her business..and her social schedule would be none of  mine  )

[Jumper]

Sandro! lol
yes we like our how to books!

*RW for dummies*
may be in the works somewhere?...


as far as the thread-
Women and men do of course like to be treated  special.
there is no debate from me on that key point.
if moby thinks i'm clueless about that,i can understand from my posts on this one
thread where he might come to that conclusion..
but  in my defense i wouldnt be married long,or have such a loving and devoted wife.


 trying to develope a special bond with someone over time and distance, then going to see them is understandable and quite romantic.
Few single women are going to not enjoy that thought.

a knight in a white mercedes coming to visit only his one true love

some are simply too busy in thier social lives ,(some too realistic?)
 to actually write long term and try and live out that fantasy though.
and prefer to develope being that *special woman" after they have met and *clicked*
 with someone.
Others can develope this thru writing and phone calls,  and do so!

RW are a diverse group.

the only generalities i feel i threw out there were-

that most RW a WM is writing to , are listed with an introduction agency..

and -
 that while all this silly debate on *method *  goes on ,and on..lol

MOST    RM and RW , are simply still oblivious to it..
living thier lives,, meeting/dating  whom they will, whenever they want,
the  time frame ,or numbers they meet, don't mean much in normal dating and social settings that  people meet in. 

those don't seem all that odd of generalizations to me,, 

[SANDRO43]

*RW for dummies* may be in the works somewhere?...

Should probably be very cheap, just 1 page inside, stating in bold print:

Forget it !

[Ooooops]

I did the search trip 3 times.  I did WMVF each time and was successful each time.

Successful in which way?   

[steviej]

Successful in which way?   

I'm sure he means successfully married 3 times !

[Ooooops]

I'm sure he means successfully married 3 times !

Subsequently or simultaneously?...    

[steviej]

If I may be permitted an observation (no offence intended), many Americans seem to be obsessed with the idea of the "How To Successfully ... (whatever)" manual ...

A very astute observation. Americans are mechanistic in their thinking. The libraries and bookstores are full of "how to" books. Also our very competitive business climate and the emphasis on "productivity" leads to this obssession. Americans are now thoroughly brainwashed (IMO) that maximum productivity is a meaning of life and the most important thing. For me, what is necessary is "sufficient" productivity. More Europeans probably think that way as well.

[steviej]

Subsequently or simultaneously?...    

It's a matrix of some sort, I think

[Ooooops]

It's a matrix of some sort, I think

But which pill will get the Chosen One to such heavenly Matrix full of women - red or blue?   

[steviej]

But which pill will get the Chosen One to such heavenly Matrix full of women - red or blue?   

As I recall the blue one leaves you in the imaginary world, the red one puts you in the real world. So here, most likely, is the blue pill. 

[Ooooops]

As I recall the blue one leaves you in the imaginary world, the red one puts you in the real world. So here, most likely, is the blue pill. 

I made an unsuccessful attempt at Viagra joke, sorry...   

[steviej]

I made an unsuccessful attempt at Viagra joke, sorry...   

It sounds like that would be a great joke, but I confess I don't get it? Can you explain?

[Ooooops]

It sounds like that would be a great joke, but I confess I don't get it? Can you explain?

It goes back to Visit Many Marry Many...   Men might need help...   

[msmoby_ru]

carry on? why not-
my conclusions are just as valid..

More correctly you observations, based on *your* experience, when qualified, show that some FSUW don't mind being the subject of WMVM, as they are doing the same.

i'm quite sure i know plenty of  RW/WM couples in person.

If that was meant as some kind of "qualification" to speak with "authourity"..and I live and work in one of the largest FSU communities outside the FSU where there are mixed FSU / WM communities... carry on ..

and i've seen just as many WMVM be successful in marriage as  WOVO,thats for sure.
(and i've seen plenty of both crash and burn)

Strangely, where I live, they seem to be incredibly stable and successful, but we haven't all revealed our dating methodolgy!

Few WMVM were hiding thier intentions to see more than one.
 i'm happily married, been there, done that  as well.
there have been plenty of guys just like me in the past, they are happily married as well.
My wife is certainly a RW, so are many of my friends, none would have an issue with what i've posted.
because my wife's ideals dont coerrespond with yours, or some other RW's just confirms what i was trying to point out.

Nope... it only confirms that people are different, and doesn't make a conclusive proof for one dating method over another.

that the camps shouldnt be so polarized.
and should be more accepting of others thoughts and ideals.

Agreed, I responded because of your "conclusions" which were based on assumptions

 
Your whole debate back to me is mostly geared on wether the RW and WM is meeting thru an agency.
well most western men are meeting women listed thru an agency.
If you are going to generalize its a poor method, or somehow less moral..

No AJ, I say that LYING about one's dating philosophy is not moral.. in the case of a man or lady that believe they are the sole reason for the visit.. not on a dating "conveyor"

then lets at least accept the concept that MOST WM will be writing to, and meeting RW that are signed up with an introduction agency.

But does that make it the best way to meet your future wife, or the method most likely to boost some folks egos? - It may just prove that WM are fools waiting to be parted with their money..as there are plenty of interative dating sites and it is easy to see if the lady is also with a dating agency..

But even that doesn't mean the FSUW will agree to meet a man on  a WMVM trip, does it... ? Again I know of women who use / used dating agencies to make contact - as they haven't got a pc at home, don't speak good English - and wouldn't be interested if they knew the guy was WMVMing them..

But for sure it *is* the best way someone will meet lots of ladies, who might have have met lots of WM.. might that not tell you anything ? There's more than one conclusion to be drawn..

 RW that most  WOVO or WMVM guys write to ,
are generally going to be a RW who signed up at an introduction agency for sole the intent of meeting foriegn men.

there are exceptions, of course.

Some FSUW place ads on local dating sites and they are spotted and invited to join a dating agency for free, some are deliberately targetting western men, some place themselves for a "bit of fun"  and some don't use agencies at all ..some use interactive dating sites - where they can join for free, and some   a combination of both or all...There's a wide spectrum of ways a woman can be seen..

But does that mean  the lady is going to meet loads of guys, or will she want to know a little more about them first.. it is in the AGENCIES interest to get her before as many men as possible, but is it in hers ? If they keep sending her to meet unsuitable mem, then she may very well drop off the list and move to a different methodology.
 

I notice you did not address a key question,,
that if RW had the same oppurtunity..to visit the west, thru an introduction agency,, what they would do, and how you would view it?
and more importantly how a RW would view it
just dodge that bullet just like anyone else has pressed on it for a decade..
lol

AJ, I wasn't "avoiding" answering your question - I didn't think it contributed anything, in a long response... but here goes ! .. I *think* you know what my answer will be....

Nothing wrong with a FSUW making such a trip, as long as she, too, is honest with her intentions .. I can just imagine the screams of "scammer" from many men - if she was found to be actually meeting more than one man and had fibbed about it.

Indeed, I know of several successful FSUW women (who have the visa entitlement) and who have gone to meet the man /men in man's country - as that's where they'd end up - as the first meeting.. this scenario will happen more often .. Again, there's nothing wrong in making a WMVM trip as long as both parties know that.

your quote is reference to agency meetings.
just how do you suppose most WMVM ,in general,  set all thier meetings up?

A lot less using dating agencies than in your time ...

you are correct, though ,it IS apples to oranges and thats was my whole point.

that it's simply different,
it isn't better or worse,
nor is either on  some higher ethical ground.

I repeat there is NOTHING non-ethical about WMVM as long as you are honest to the receipient that that is the "rules"...  I pointed out about the apples and oranges as it was *you* that made the point everyone is different, then you started to contradict that stand, by offering conclusions basd on your experience

very few WMVM ever get all cross rutted about someone going WOVO.
they think it's risky, but fine.
The WOVO crowd, are the ones typically getting on a ethical pedastal about anyone doing it differently.

From that subjective statment are we to assume you are from the WMVM "camp" and I'm from the WOVO "camp" and there's no middle ground? !

AJ, I wrote many, cut it down, and visited one, and I once made a trip where I was on business and managed to meet two ladies, who where both with dating agencies - but I'd traced them to an interactive dating site, with far newer profiles.

Both the ladies were successful professional types and had long since abandoned the agencies as being only interested in getting them in front of as many WM as possible, regardless of their suitability.

They wanted to enhance their chances of being found, but the first hurdle I had to cross was "was I the only lady I was meeting on the trip?" - I lied to the first lady , who told me "just as well you weren't because I blew a Dutchman out who cme to visit me, telling me I was the only one and I found out from the agency that he was on a WMVM trip...I am taking time off work to meet a guy and he has to be serious, about me" - I lied to the second lady, too. but I only contacted her, as I thought the first lady wasn't interested in me...

I learnt something important - don't fib - be open and honest and that even if a lady IS with an agency, they prefer a guy to be concentrating on them... that continued to be my experience of ladies I met  - I made sure I could honestly say that they would be the only lady I was meeting on that trip ... I was visiting the FSU frequently on business, so I had that luxury, and I really was on business.

When I "found" my wife - she wrote to me first - I had viewed her profile a few times - well many times - I invited her to ME..  and we had interacted so much via the internet / sms / phone - that we knew there were no plan B's - I knew about the men she had been corresponding to and she about my meetings... she wasn't "happy" about them, but she figured I was honest..

I merely offer that our way was one route to success - it breaks many of Dan's 10 commandments... not that it is the only way..

your whole debate back to me on my points only being relevent if its "agency based meetings" is  silly.

AJ, I said that your examples worked for folk using agencies, who were honest about it being a WMVM trip. So you are misquoting me to prove a point ?!

Take the meeting with my wife.
 if she had been off to meet a local man that had hit on her at a local cafe the week before, it would make no difference at all.

 I still wouldn't have cared, it would be none of my business,
and likewise she wouldn't have cared if i met someone else
that night..
we had simply just met, liked each other and decided mutiually to meet again.
and contninue from there if we felt like it..and enjoyed each others company..
no silly pressures or expectations.
we dint have any rights to expect that either of us  see only the  "one"
(i feel i'm trapped in the matrix)

thats completely natural in the dating world.

wether thru an introduction agency ,
or just meeting in the park makes little difference whatsovever.

in the case of an introduction agency a WM,and the RW can meet many individiuals.
same as in the park..and in public places..
so grasp at some other straw.

All fine, if neither of you have "raised hopes" by fibbing" ..

most of your responce,
puts the WMVM man, into a context you want him to be in, so that you can be "right"

Nope... that's your twisted interpretation ... ...  We already agreed about the "apples and oranges" .. did you forget, already.. There is no right or wrong .. it depends on the respective personalities.. ! One's "success" is likely to depend on your honesty / credibility / integrity  in the long run.. can we agree on *that*?

if it makes you feel better,
then i agree that in that LIMITED context  of  a man going to visit many, writing long correspondence and intentionally misleading the people he is going to meet-
 isn't proper.

what a cad.
feel better now?

AJ, don't worry about *my* feelings, we are trying to help guys be successful and fine a suitable FSUW ! 

Being a "cad" isn't going to win a wife, but it will get you lots of dates... and spoil it for the guys that follow. I'm not so sure, reading some posters here, that they realise that or care.. !

[/quote]

take the more typical guy out of that limited context,..
a more general WMVM trip.. where he writes little intially ,if any at all other than introduction,  and visits many, and yes mostly it would be ladies signed up with introduction agenciers
(ohh deary that awful word AGAIN introduction agency ..lol)

then he is simply doing something different than a WOVO person.
evaluating the possibilty of a relationship  ,after meeting , instead of attempting to beforehand.

*IF* you wish to visit as many ladies as possible - not the right way to go IMHO - then the "dreaded dating agency" is the way to go.. IF you are looking for a wife, and prefer to know a heck of a lot more about a person before meeting them, then they are not the only option in town..

A dating agency is only as good as:
1/ the "pool" of ladies it has to offer

2/ the service it offers

This site offers plenty of advice re that route.

moby

What is with this strange habit of dropping of the MS bit?!.. if it's short you need, Mark is shorter

Some will find ways to be in contact with  WM.

The advice here is to newbies looking into this venture,regardless his method,,
just *who * is he most likely to write to? RW with addresses he bought from an introduction agency.
- i know quiet well that many RW wouldn't sign up at an introduction agency.
they would certainly be in the WOVO camp, and that is wonderful.

Sorry, AJ, that is another huge assumption - some FSUW simply prefer to control who knows their details - this doesn't make them WOVO ! There's plenty of women who were on interactive datings sites - such as EM, who have had profiles for five years or more. This could mean many things and we can't draw a conclusion from it...

My wife had at least two foreign holiday photos from different years and locations in her profile and *I* assumed this meant she had taken holidays with WM - when they were just family holidays from when she was married She and her husband earnt good money for the FSU, and staying in Five star hotels isn't so uncommon for FSU folk on all inclusives to Thailand, Turkey, Egypt, etc.

When a newbie writes to a lady via a dating site - he mostly won't know her real address - an introduction agency doesn't like to do hand them out - not just for ethical / legal reasons - they'll lose out on the gravy train of arranging meets, translations, etc.

If getting an address is a criteria - dating agencies would be the last on a newbies list. They just need to trust the agency and if when they meet the lady, she  wishes to give her address, GREAT.

The silliness of debating agency vs non-agency women is for another thread.

I don't think I was debating this.. I was pointing out that your examples didn't apply in circumstances where dating agencies weren't the method of first contact.

Edaurds post was about it being "ok" to meet many RW on your trip to the FSU.
The average joe, writing to the average RW signed up at an introduction agency,
,it is going to be "ok",
 and  isnt that the whole point?

if a guy wants to go that route, yes it will  be "ok"

If you feel that you want to involve someone, some organisation, into your decision making process - fine .. *I* think a newbie can find ways to chose for himself..

yes.  he should be honest of his intentions

Great .. now we are in agreement on something else.

(and most RW writing him in this context won't ask silly questions,they couldnt ask a local guy either at first meeting ,or a first date)

what constitutes "silly question" to you in this context ? I have a feeling the FSUW might not always feel it was "silly" or she wouldn't feel the need to ask .. it will be important to her .

no .he shouldnt carry out long correspondence or give false expectations.

 yes, he should expect she will also meet who she can,when she can.

no. he shouldnt expect because he traveled has any impact on meeting one or more ,or if that makes it "ok"

yes, he should certainly expect that if he sets up dates with women signed up an an introduction agency, that just like if he went to a dating agency in his home city,
it would be "ok" ,and completely normal to set up several dates.yes even write ,even  phone them first.

as long as they but know where they stand - yes

yes, he should recognize that some women,, locally and internationally.,
 would never sign up at any dating agency.
and that by visting more than one,or even by going to a dating agency,
 he will lose the interest of certain good (and bad) ladies.

We already covered this earler .. some FSUW don't use dating agencies but are WMVM, some use dating agencies prefer WOVO..

yes he should also recoginize that their are plenty of RW that simply view this  as dating. no different than locally.they already have busy social lives ,
and no time or inclination to write men to weed out one special one ,that might visit. it simply isnt thier life, they live quite normal busy lives but are open to the idea of dating someone from another country.
The man wont get any special "pass" for his long dating commute.
(and he shouldn't) the reasonable women understand that in this context , they shouldnt either, it's just a date.

and I contend that a busy, serious, woman isn't going to be interested in meeting with lots of guys she knows little about ..

You notice at any time do i say that one method is above another.
they both have thier merits ,postives and negatives.
I respect those doing either method..

You are saying WMVM worked for you - but in reality your meeting was chance ..

I'm saying that times are changing and the dating scene has changed with it .. it is more sophisticated - many dating agencies are disappearing.. why is that? I contend it's because the dating sites -that allow interactivity - are taking their business and may be less FSUW are seeking foreign men.

Russian language social networking sites are booming and may be the ladies are finding more to interest them closer to home?

I still would do the same today as i did 7 years ago.
Which was date,no rush, no expectations, and try to keep things as natural as possible.
yes a longer commute.
but in that regard absolutely little different than if i flew to LA back and forth long term to date a AW. (which i had done,and no when we first met i dint go to "just" see only "her"
 and no she wouldnt have asked me if i had some other girl in LA lined up to see
as well. as at that early point it would be none of her business..and her social schedule would be none of  mine  )

All the above is agreed - as long as both sides know the "rules" .. How do you know she likes your rules?!

I strongly disagree that that an AM dating long distance, in the same huge country, is the same as dating an FSUW still living there .. if THAT were true.. what's the attraction ? There's plenty of attractive women in the USA. You and I both know the dating scene and rules are quite different...

[ScottinCrimea]

I guess one good thing that has come out of this thread is that we now know that if you want Pike to go away, just ask him a few direct questions.

Still waiting........  :ohbrother:

[Pike]

I guess one good thing that has come out of this thread is that we now know that if you want Pike to go away, just ask him a few direct questions.

Still waiting........  :ohbrother:

- - - - - - -

I asked you the direct questions first.  So still waiting.  I have a life outside of RWD.

I asked you the direct questions because your comments to and about me indicated you already knew the answers to these questions.  So just give these answers that you already knew.

And I have another question now.  Why do you and others want me to go away?

Also a question for Dan.  Is it apparent to you that some are trying to drive me away, as now admitted by Scott?  And what is your response to this?

[ScottinCrimea]

- - - - - - -

I asked you the direct questions first.  So still waiting.  I have a life outside of RWD.

I asked you the direct questions because your comments to and about me indicated you already knew the answers to these questions.  So just give these answers that you already knew.

And I have another question now.  Why do you and others want me to go away?

Also a question for Dan.  Is it apparent to you that some are trying to drive me away, as now admitted by Scott?  And what is your response to this?

Because we issue a direct challenge to you or question your logic we are trying to drive you away? The comment you quoted was not evidence of some conspiracy against you (you're really not all that important), just a comment on the appearance that you run and hide when confronted, hoping to avoid direct questions as it now appears you are doing with the childish "I asked you first" attitude.

Your questions to me were seeking to divert the issue, but I'll answer what I understand and then I expect some direct responses to my questions.

Please refresh for me just what is my primary purpose for making multiple trips to FSU.
You claim that your primary purpose in visiting the FSU is business, but that is not relevant to the issue of attempts or success because we are talking about relationships with FSUW and is just a diversion attempt on your part.  Just out of curiosity, what is the nature of your business that takes you so frequently to the FSU?

Please refresh for me what are my 'multiple attempts.'
On your visits to the FSU, you have arranged to meet as many women as possible and quite frankly I don't know how you are able to conduct any business during your time in the FSU since you have difficulty avoiding even having the women run into each other as one leaves and the other arrives.  So if we look at meeting a woman as an attempt to have a relationship (whatever that means to you), you have had many attempts.

Please refresh for me what is my 'lack of success.'
Thhis one I'll have to defer to you.  I don't know the ratio of women you contact vs those who actually agree to meet you, nor do I know the ratio of women you meet versus those you actually convince to sleep with you, nor do I know the ratio of those you get into bed vs those you consider as providing good sex, nor do I know the ratio of those you think are good in bed vs those you continue to have a relationship with after you leave.  You tell me.  If your goal is to find one FSUW, marry and bring her to the US, my understanding is that you are still single, so therefore not successful to this point after how many years and attempts?

Please refresh for me what is my past history with marriage and children.
I don't know how this is relevant to the issue we were discussing so you'll need to be more specific on this one.

Now you asked why do I and others want you to go away.  I can't speak for the others but I will say that I have seen you post some advice that is both incorrect and bad and see you as one who, based on your description of your activities in the FSU, gives a bad name to other AM who are seeking a sincere FSUW and taint the waters for those who follow.  I don't mind if you stay here or not.  At least here those who know better can keep an eye on you and provide the appropriate refutation.

[Pike]

Because we issue a direct challenge to you or question your logic we are trying to drive you away? The comment you quoted was not evidence of some conspiracy against you (you're really not all that important), just a comment on the appearance that you run and hide when confronted, hoping to avoid direct questions as it now appears you are doing with the childish "I asked you first" attitude.

Your questions to me were seeking to divert the issue, but I'll answer what I understand and then I expect some direct responses to my questions.

Please refresh for me just what is my primary purpose for making multiple trips to FSU.
You claim that your primary purpose in visiting the FSU is business, but that is not relevant to the issue of attempts or success because we are talking about relationships with FSUW and is just a diversion attempt on your part.  Just out of curiosity, what is the nature of your business that takes you so frequently to the FSU?

Please refresh for me what are my 'multiple attempts.'
On your visits to the FSU, you have arranged to meet as many women as possible and quite frankly I don't know how you are able to conduct any business during your time in the FSU since you have difficulty avoiding even having the women run into each other as one leaves and the other arrives.  So if we look at meeting a woman as an attempt to have a relationship (whatever that means to you), you have had many attempts.

Please refresh for me what is my 'lack of success.'
Thhis one I'll have to defer to you.  I don't know the ratio of women you contact vs those who actually agree to meet you, nor do I know the ratio of women you meet versus those you actually convince to sleep with you, nor do I know the ratio of those you get into bed vs those you consider as providing good sex, nor do I know the ratio of those you think are good in bed vs those you continue to have a relationship with after you leave.  You tell me.  If your goal is to find one FSUW, marry and bring her to the US, my understanding is that you are still single, so therefore not successful to this point after how many years and attempts?

Please refresh for me what is my past history with marriage and children.
I don't know how this is relevant to the issue we were discussing so you'll need to be more specific on this one.

Now you asked why do I and others want you to go away.  I can't speak for the others but I will say that I have seen you post some advice that is both incorrect and bad and see you as one who, based on your description of your activities in the FSU, gives a bad name to other AM who are seeking a sincere FSUW and taint the waters for those who follow.  I don't mind if you stay here or not.  At least here those who know better can keep an eye on you and provide the appropriate refutation.

This minor side discussion started when msmoby and Scott said to me:

"As someone mentioned previously, based on your multiple attempts and lack so far of success in finding a permanent relationship, maybe you need to rethink how you are going about things rather than trying to convince others that your way makes sense."

From msmoby:  "your statistic number of visits  v "success" is appalling, and would suggest a total rethink "

Since  they had made conclusions about my attempts and lack of success, I asked for their knowledge about same.

Now, in Scott's response, it is revealed that he really  knows nothing about either my attempts or my success.

Discussions with someone who makes conclusions before facts are known has little value.  Discussion closed.

[msmoby_ru]

This minor side discussion started when msmoby and Scott said to me:

"As someone mentioned previously, based on your multiple attempts and lack so far of success in finding a permanent relationship, maybe you need to rethink how you are going about things rather than trying to convince others that your way makes sense."

From msmoby:  "your statistic number of visits  v "success" is appalling, and would suggest a total rethink "

ACTUALLY, for the man who has three times in this thread  "required direct answers to direct questions" - this started a lot earlier in the thread in response to :

saying

But my impression was that most VOs actually don’t work out (just as most first dates don’t).  Which would mean multiple first-time VOs.  Either way, you're seeing multiple ladies, it’s just a question of whether you go in series or in parallel. 

You replied 

Very astute point, and  one which seems to escape many here



To elaborate and demonstrate the silliness:

You go on a VO  and it doesn't work out.  So you go on more VOs.  But each of the gals could complain that if things don't work out with them, you will go on to meet more gals . . . albeit on subsequent trips.

Except you are "comparing apples and oranges"?!
I'm sure one progresses to a date MUCH more quickly with someone who lives in the locale, as opposed to someone who lives in  a country far away.. so the "data" who accumulates before the date is greater...and the friendship factor is stronger

 

To elaborate and demonstrate the silliness:

*you* think it's "silliness" - yet -if you are seeking a wife - your statistic number of visits  v "success" is appalling, and would suggest a total rethink

Posted in the true context reads rather differently, huh ?

Since  they had made conclusions about my attempts and lack of success, I asked for their knowledge about same.

   aren't YOU  trying to infer being on a second marriage is some sort of "failure" ...

Now, in Scott's response, it is revealed that he really  knows nothing about either my attempts or my success.   

Once again ... "success" in sexual exploits OR finding a woman -one you respect and love and want to spend the rest of your life with ?  - Try answering THAT as a direct question .. if you can

Discussions with someone who makes conclusions before facts are known has little value.  Discussion closed.

How convenient - can we take that you mean you won't be gving advice based on your "success" ?  )))

[Gator]

based on your multiple attempts and lack so far of success in finding a permanent relationship, maybe you need to rethink how you are going about things rather than trying to convince others that your way makes sense

I don't know who asked this.  It does not matter.  Just accept the fact that Pike does not meet women with the goal of marriage. 

For Pike to marry would be serendipity in combination with  the sun rising from the West.   I just hope he is not already married.  Supposedly it is not uncommon for married businessmen to prey on RW.

Some of Pike's input is highly relevant regarding travel and meetings.  Yet, do not look to him for advice on how to evaluate a woman as a potential wife, and I do not recall him ever giving such as Pike or as his other identities.

[ScottinCrimea]

Since  they had made conclusions about my attempts and lack of success, I asked for their knowledge about same.

Now, in Scott's response, it is revealed that he really  knows nothing about either my attempts or my success.

Discussions with someone who makes conclusions before facts are known has little value.  Discussion closed.

Pike, You asked us some direct questions and we provided them.  Now to say, "See, they are wrong, end of discussion!"  just doesn't cut it. Maybe you can tell us specifically where we have drawn the wrong conclusions from your posts.  You can start by doing what we have repeatedly requested, which is to answer our direct questions.  Are you so afraid of the answers?

[ScottinCrimea]

Well it appears that once again, in the face of direct questions, Pike disappears.

[BillyB]

Supposedly it is not uncommon for married businessmen to prey on RW.

In defense of Pike he is targeting similarly minded women. I'm not sure if he's the predator or the prey.

[msmoby_ru]

In defense of Pike he is targeting similarly minded women. I'm not sure if he's the predator or the prey.

Hi Billy, how do you know that?!... how do you know how he gets dates?

Perhaps, Pike is a troll ? 

For sure, if he does behave in the manner he says he does, he could be ruining things for WM that follow... As some of us have perceptions about FSUW - based on our experiences - think about how a Pike could be affecting their perceptions !