Is it OK to meet with more than one woman on your trip to FSU

[Pike]

The only difference will be what those girls would think about you, that's all.   

OK, so a guy wants to visit you and you very much want him to visit you.  But, during your subsequent correspondence and communications, it is revealed that he will VM.  So you tell him no.

Then he says to you, OK I will come only to visit you.  And then if things don't work out  for us, then I will come back later to visit other gals.

So would you think better about this guy, and then agree to visit with him on his VO?

[Ooooops]

Then he says to you, OK I will come only to visit you.  And then if things don't work out  for us, then I will come back later to visit other gals.

So would you think better about this guy, and then agree to visit with him on his VO?

Think about it - guy wants to see other girls only if things don't work out between us or he want to have a "fall back girls" just in case.   Try to switch the sides and put your self in girl's heels.   

[Pike]

No,  Oooooops, you misread my  post.  The guy is now fully committed to coming  on a VO to see only you.  You are his choice.

But you and he, as logical adults, know that if things  don't work out between the two of you that he will want to meet other ladies . . . on a subsequent trip.  You don't really want him to never meet another woman if you turn him down . . . do you?

So  now with that clarification, please quote my first post to you and then give your answer.  :-))

[Gator]

This was a self-created problem assuming you would happily share the same bed for a week with a woman you hardly knew.

Yes, I conceded my soul and body to her "romantic dreams."  Temporarily.  As I said, I made my decision in a moment of loneliness.  Loneliness makes you do stuff you would not normally do.  

With a two bedroom apartment, all you need to do if it goes bad is just close the door.

It was a hotel in a resort, so no extra room because I am "greedy."  It made a statement for a man to separate the beds.  At least it made me feel better.  

So three lessons I learned - meet RW first in their city where you can leave at your own will, make sure you are not chasing a fantasy born from loneliness, and take enough time in correspondence to know her rather than guess who she is and what she wants.

[Ooooops]

But you and he, as logical adults, know that if things  don't work out between the two of you that he will want to meet other ladies . . . on a subsequent trip.  You don't really want him to never meet another woman if you turn him down . . . do you?

Errrrrrr....   still not clear, I'm afraid.        Was he lying to me and still corresponded with other girls when he came to see me, only me?   If not, and if things didn't work out then he can go back and start writing to the whole world as far as I concern and make a thousand subsequent trips.   

[Pike]

Errrrrrr....   still not clear, I'm afraid.        Was he lying to me and still corresponded with other girls when he came to see me, only me?   If not, and if things didn't work out then he can go back and start writing to the whole world as far as I concern and make a thousand subsequent trips.   

OK, I see you are going to resist answering directly.
Let's go with your category of 'If not . . .'
Thus you say if things don't work out with you then he can make 'a thousand subsequent trips.'

Now my first question to you is; how long does he have to wait (so that you won't feel bad toward him . . . as you stated in an earlier post) to make these subseqent trips?

And a second question.  You say he can 'go back . . .'  Would it be alright with you (so you won't feel bad toward him) if he just stayed in your city and started writing to 'the whole world?'

[Ooooops]

Now my first question to you is; how long does he have to wait (so that you won't feel bad toward him . . . as you stated in an earlier post) to make these subseqent trips?

And a second question.  You say he can 'go back . . .'  Would it be alright with you (so you won't feel bad toward him) if he just stayed in your city and started writing to 'the whole world?'

I combine my answers if you don't mind - he doesn't have to wait a day after we brake up and he can start writing the very moment he gets to his hotel room.      But before that I gotta see that he has no back up plans and believe me it's quite transparent in most cases.   And if he managed to lie to me successfully....  well, there is karma you know.  And reciprocity.    

[Pike]

I combine my answers if you don't mind - he doesn't have to wait a day after we brake up and he can start writing the very moment he gets to his hotel room.      But before that I gotta see that he has no back up plans and believe me it's quite transparent in most cases.   And if he managed to lie to me successfully....  well, there is karma you know.  And reciprocity.    

OK.  Now, before he chose to visit only you, he had looked at profiles of some other gals and had corresponded with them.  You do know he had to have written to someone else before he found his one and only with you . . . right?  So he has phone numbers and e-mail addresses.  He has stopped corresponding with those gals when he committed to the VO with you.

Question to you.  Can he bring this contact info with him on his trip to VO you.  Or, if he can't bring them (so you won't think bad of him), would he be allowed to have a friend e-mail him a message with all of this info in it?

I must get to bed now, but will check back with you tomorrow to read your answer.  Ciao.

[Ooooops]

So he has phone numbers and e-mail addresses.  He has stopped corresponding with those gals when he committed to the VO with you.

Question to you.  Can he bring this contact info with him on his trip to VO you.  Or, if he can't bring them (so you won't think bad of him), would he be allowed to have a friend e-mail him a message with all of this info in it?

Q: when did he stop corresponding with those girls?   I assume quite a while ago otherwise how can he/I decide that he/I is the One?

So the A: no, he can not bring them with.       And I'd be very surprised if he just surfaces out of the blue after a very long silence and still some of the old pen-pals would come running to meet him.   

Good night. 

[msmoby_ru]

So are you implying that women do not like sex??

Nope not all...  but I guess you knew that and took this small part of my post to make it look like that ?!

I really think you knew what I meant...

[msmoby_ru]

Very astute point, and  one which seems to escape many here.

Except you are "comparing apples and oranges"?!

 I'm sure one progresses to a date MUCH more quickly with someone who lives in the locale, as opposed to someone who lives in  a country far away.. so the "data" who accumulates before the date is greater...and the friendship factor is stronger

To elaborate and demonstrate the silliness:

*you* think it's "silliness" - yet -if you are seeking a wife - your statistic number of visits  v "success" is appalling, and would suggest a total rethink

You go on a VO  and it doesn't work out.  So you go on more VOs.  But each of the gals could complain that if things don't work out with them, you will go on to meet more gals . . . albeit on subsequent trips.

that depends on WHY it didn't work out and how she / you behaved during and after and how you agreed to "end" the relationship.. Could you be applying your way of doing this to that of others - and drawing the wrong conclusion ?!

So what difference does it make if you meet the subsequent gals on days 2-3 or on weeks 2-3 or on months 2-3?

This statement clearly shows that we are miles apart :

1/ with regards to the length of time it takes to find and develop a potential suitable date

2/ having regard to the feelings / aims of the potential date

3/ If one is seeing so many potential "wives" over so short a period, frankly I can't see how you can be objective, and in your case this is backed up by "statistics".

[ScottinCrimea]

Pike, you keep trying to redefine things to fit your opinion, hoping that by narrowing it down to conditions you define, someone will agree with you.  As someone mentioned previously, based on your multiple attempts and lack so far of success in finding a permanent relationship, maybe you need to rethink how you are going about things rather than trying to convince others that your way makes sense.

You seem to have a focus on minimizing the damage if things don't work out eiother by meeting with numerous women or by having a back up plan firmly in hand.  You need the back up because you are basically creating the very scenario where it is necessary.

You go on a series of dates with no real sense of commitment because if it doesn't work out, you can just move on to the next woman on your list.  It is that specific lack of any sense of commitment that is causing the failure.  I'm not talking about a lifetime commitment here, just getting to know the woman well enough first to feel that there are reasonable grounds to make the commitment to focus all of your attention on that particular woman until such time as it is determined that there is no basis to continue.

You don't put 100% into the effort and the woman, seeing that she is just another puppy in the store window, either will shrug you off, or, if she is desperate, will take desperate measures such as trying to lure you with sex.

A woman likes to feel that she is special and that whomever she marries will treat her as such.  If you only see her as one of many and in no way more special than the others, it gives her a clue as to how she will be treated if she marries you.  Sure you can say that if I determine she is the one, then I will treat her special, but you'll never get that far.

You go on and on about the difference between seeing several women a trip apart versus a few hours apart and don't see the difference, but it makes a huge difference to the woman to know that she is your sole focus for a period of time longer than a lunch date.  You certainly can't stay focused on her when you're making plans for how to arrange the timing so that she doesn't run into the next one down the line and getting your sheets cleaned between visits.

I'm not debating the WMVM vs WOVO issue here, but there are some attitudes you display that suggest you would fail with either one.  Your purpose for WMVM as I see it is to maximize your experience and fun at the expense of the women.  In all your years have you ever done a WOVO?

[steviej]

I'm not debating the WMVM vs WOVO issue here, but there are some attitudes you display that suggest you would fail with either one. 

I think Scott's comment about attitude is a very important one. For men with different personalities and skills, different types of WOVO or WMVM will work. I, for example, am shy, and do better (well, did better) with longer period of correspondence and telephone calls, feeling I had built up a deeper sense of friendship and relationship, specific to a particular woman. Other men are less of a Cyrano with a pen, and much better than me walking into a room, even with people they don't know, and making meaningful contact and establishing relationships.

But, in either case, what is your basic attitute toward, and about, the women? I think a man that feels afraid of the women (she'll take my money ... this one want a green card .. I don't want to waste my time with that one ... no free dinners ... etc) has let himself fall into the trap, or habit, of putting some negative energy into the wrong areas, and missing the opportunities to put his positive energy into the positive areas.

First, it seems some of the guys forget, because of the possible disappointments and yes, maybe even frauds, that they are talking about marriage. Not speed dating, not expanding their "friends" network, but honest to goodness marriage. Second, they forget that each one of these women MIGHT be the woman they fall in love with any marry. I think if they focus on that, no matter how they arrange things, things will go better. I mean, if you knew ahead of time, through some special magic powers, which women it was going to be, how would you behave toward her? I think, that's how you should behave because your woman will always remember the first impressions she had of you, and what a special and wonderful gentleman you were. But, of course, we can't know in advance, who it will be. So, I recommend, instead of worrying too much about which ones are the bad apples and throw-aways, focus your emotions and attitudes on the fact that ONE of them is, or might be, the actual woman you will fall in love with and marry. But your emotional energy onto the areas of positive outcome, which is, the whole reason you are even coming. Does that make any sense?

[Ooooops]

There is a well known quote from an old Soviet cartoon "Adventures of Captain Wrungel" (loosely translated  ) - Boat will sail according to its name.   I think it fits this situation pretty well... 

[anjutka]

So, I recommend, instead of worrying too much about which ones are the bad apples and throw-aways, focus your emotions and attitudes on the fact that ONE of them is, or might be, the actual woman you will fall in love with and marry. But your emotional energy onto the areas of positive outcome, which is, the whole reason you are even coming. Does that make any sense?

absolutely  agree :)positive thinking nowadays became more and more important

[anjutka]

There is a well known quote from an old Soviet cartoon "Adventures of Captain Wrungel" (loosely translated  ) - Boat will sail according to its name.   I think it fits this situation pretty well... 

Yes :)Just details who don't know this famous quote)))  Name of boat was at the beginning "Победа" (Victory)but occasionally two first letters fall down and name of boat became "Беда"(Trouble)

Meaning if you thinking  positively, your result ll be positive ,and other way around

[Ooooops]

Just details who don't know this famous quote)))  Name of boat was at the beginning "Победа" (Victory)but occasionally two first letters fall down and name of boat became "Беда"(Trouble)

Thanks, Anjutka.     And what trouble did they get!         

[Pike]

Nope not all...  but I guess you knew that and took this small part of my post to make it look like that ?!

I really think you knew what I meant...

Don't have your exact words right in front of me; but didn't you say something like: "after he got what he wanted."
Doesn't this imply that she 'really' didn't want it?

Otherwise, wouldn't you have said something like:  "after he got what he wanted and she got what she wanted."

[msmoby_ru]

Don't have your exact words right in front of me; but didn't you say something like: "after he got what he wanted."
Doesn't this imply that she 'really' didn't want it?

Otherwise, wouldn't you have said something like:  "after he got what he wanted and she got what she wanted."

No.. I wouldn't ... and you're on a fishing expedition... and I have a feeling we might differ on what constitutes good sex in the eyes of the respective sexes

[Pike]

  As someone mentioned previously, based on your multiple attempts and lack so far of success in finding a permanent relationship, maybe you need to rethink how you are going about things rather than trying to convince others that your way makes sense.

From msmoby:  "your statistic number of visits  v "success" is appalling, and would suggest a total rethink "

Scott and Msmoby; since you two are acting as a tag team, I will address this to both of you.

Please refresh for me just what is my primary purpose for making multiple trips to FSU.
Please refresh for me what are my 'multiple attempts.'
Please refresh for me what is my 'lack of success.'
Please refresh for me what is my past history with marriage and children.

Before you answer, please re-read Dan's 10 Commandments, paying special attention to 2 and 9.

[OlgaH]

A woman likes to feel that she is special and that whomever she marries will treat her as such.  If you only see her as one of many and in no way more special than the others, it gives her a clue as to how she will be treated if she marries you.  Sure you can say that if I determine she is the one, then I will treat her special, but you'll never get that far.

I think any woman who has self-respect would not agree to be in the role of backup plan 

In my opinion a man, who names women as Monday, Wednesday, Friday and so on, is not serious and he is not a good candidate for a long life partner.

"Oh Jon, you know I would like to spend some time with some other men after you , I hope you understand, and then I will decide if you are worth my time , but you, being my backup plan, have a chance , so be patient and don't lose hope. Cheers Don't worry. Be happy"

  Sounds pretty good, right?

[msmoby_ru]

From msmoby:  "your statistic number of visits  v "success" is appalling, and would suggest a total rethink "

Scott and Msmoby; since you two are acting as a tag team, I will address this to both of you.



Before you answer, please re-read Dan's 10 Commandments, paying special attention to 2 and 9.

Pike, I haven't read Scott's posts - sorry Scott - just yours - and now I'm definitely not going to .. !

Firstly, these are Dan's ten commandments - not mine, and as you may have read, I broke many of them 1,2, and 8, and I STILL love the photo my wife put on her profile !! - I surely wanted to Love her .. so I guess you could say I'm dodgy about 6

His rules are ENTIRELY sensible, but I knew FSU folk and the FSU quite well - but then you claim this , too , no ?

Please refresh for me just what is my primary purpose for making multiple trips to FSU.

You are :

1/ A sex tourist
2/ Looking for a wife
3/ Combining biz with a bit of pleasure
4/ Gay, but trying to make sure, or in denial

You need more alternatiives?

Please refresh for me what are my 'multiple attempts.'

I don't know Pike, who've handed out lot's of advice based on your "experience" and was your recent report, of dates you met, written by someone who stole your id?

Please refresh for me what is my 'lack of success.'

1/ A sex tourist - they said "no thanks", when you thought, "yes please"
2/ Looking for a wife - they said "no thanks", when you thought, "yes please"
3/ Combining biz with a bit of pleasure -  they said "no thanks", when you thought, "yes please" - and biz waasn't that good either..
4/ Gay, but trying to make sure, or in denial  - -  they said "yes please" , when you thought, "no thanks"

You tell us ...

Please refresh for me what is my past history with marriage and children.

This must be one for Scott, but "in for a penny, in for a pound", as we say

1/ You were already a sex tourist - your wife said, "no thanks", when you thought, "yes please"
2/ Looking for a "new" wife - she (old wife)  said , "yes please" when you thought,  "no thanks"
3/ Combining biz with a bit of pleasure -  wife said "no thanks", when you thought, "yes please" - and you got divorced..
4/ Gay, but trying to make sure, or in denial  - wife said "yes please" , when you thought, "no thanks" and you STILL haven't got a clue...

How are Scott and I doing ?....


Really Pike, may be you might like to read your postings back to back and ask yourself the same questions ... I guess I've formed a conclusion that the man who doesn't know what he wants is a hard man to please.

[ScottinCrimea]

From msmoby:  "your statistic number of visits  v "success" is appalling, and would suggest a total rethink "

Scott and Msmoby; since you two are acting as a tag team, I will address this to both of you.

Please refresh for me just what is my primary purpose for making multiple trips to FSU.
Please refresh for me what are my 'multiple attempts.'
Please refresh for me what is my 'lack of success.'
Please refresh for me what is my past history with marriage and children.

Before you answer, please re-read Dan's 10 Commandments, paying special attention to 2 and 9.

Okay, now my turn on the tag team.

I think it best to ask you a few direct questions and leave it up to the individuals here to determine if you are a success or not.

1.  What is your goal in meeting women from the FSU?
2.  How many trips have you made to the FSU where you met women in search of this goal, no matter the primary   purpose of the visit?
3.  Over how many years have these visits taken place?
4.  How many total women have you met with this goal in mind?
5.  How many FSUW have you achieved this goal with?

I don't recall making any specific comments about you regarding marriage and children and don't see how it is relevant unless we are talking about FSUW and their children, but since you have gone there, I'll ask this:

6.  How many times have you been married?

I did read those 10 commandments and I think we disagree on what they are saying.   To my mind, having a back up plan means that you are covered SHOULD YOUR INITIAL PLANS GO AWRY.  I didn't see in your trip report that you had any back up plan other than ways to keep the women from bumping into each other as they entered and left your bedroom.

As far as #9, if jumping from woman to woman and bed to bed is the way you date in the US, then you are keeping this commandment just fine.  Somehow, though, I doubt that you would have such "success" in the US.

By the way,  I broke numbers 1,2,4,6 and 9 and somehow it seems to have worked out just fine.  So am I doomed to be cast into outer darkness for my sins?

[Kuna]

Scott and msmoby,

You have to remember... Pike once called women he was meeting "dumb" because they weren't impressed by photos of his house.

I'll let you search back through his posts then decide what sort of man he is.

Kuna

[LiveFromUkraine]

I broke a lot of "rules" placed on this adventure as well.  I would think that common sense would prove more useful in these circumstances.  It is unfortunate that a lot of people don't use it more. 

If Pike is calling women "dumb" because they weren't impressed with his house then that would be a "keeper" to me and a lot of other guys with common sense.   





Thomas