Doing it in Ukraine

[BillyB]

I come back to the forum and read about a few breakups. Sad indeed but possibly happens more often than not. Various reasons could cause it such as there may be issues with the man, the RW, or one or both finally see they're not compatable with each other after the infatuation wears off. Maybe one of the two found a bigger better deal and cut the relationship off? I wanted to find a RW who is devoted and family oriented. My finacee is that. Over three years of knowing her, I fully trust her and family oriented she is. Her choice of things to do in Kiev were museums, opera, zoo, circus and walks in the park. I suspect many men currently searching for a RW are finding RW who like to frequent night clubs and party a lot. Those RW may not be marriage material just yet.

Work is getting busy for me so I chose a quick and easy place to get to that doesn't require a visa for I or Natalia who lives in Uzbekistan. Kiev, Ukraine was the place. I've got to downsize some photos and I'll post them here after I get caught up in the real World. Here's a some of my other trip reports for those who haven't read how I got to this point.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1303.msg28672;topicseen#msg28672

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5066.msg87209;topicseen#msg87209

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7172.msg127488;topicseen#msg127488

[Ooooops]

I wanted to find a RW who is devoted and family oriented. My finacee is that. Over three years of knowing her, I fully trust her and family oriented she is.

I'm sorry to pry but why such a long engagement time?    Isn't hard living apart with the loved one?

PS.   Oooops...  should read first...  sorry to hear the visa story...    Did it change since March?

[BillyB]

I'm sorry to pry but why such a long engagement time?   

Partly because I wanted to get to know the person I'm going to marry and partly because of the length of time getting a k-1 visa and complications we experienced that dragged this on longer. Explained in one of the links in the first post.

[Ooooops]

Partly because I wanted to get to know the person I'm going to marry

I should try to do the poll - How long it took you to know?..   

[Gator]

Billy,

Glad to know you had a splendid holiday with Natalia and that your relationship still progresses given the difficulties of the past.

Partly because I wanted to get to know the person I'm going to marry

I should try to do the poll - How long it took you to know?..   

For me, 6 years and still much more to learn.  Appreciating mystery is one of the secrets of happiness with a woman.   

For example, she does not play golf and watches minimal TV, yet she stayed glued to the US Open on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, about 15 hours of viewing.  Yes, it was an incredible golf tournament, and quite possibly the most interesting ever.  Nevertheless, she does not play golf. 

We talked about it.  Her sentiments made her seem even more dear.

She was not the only interested novice:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3447810&sportCat=golf

[LiveFromUkraine]

Good to hear you had a great time in Kiev.  I am a little surprised you had time for pictures. 




Thomas

[Ooooops]

For me, 6 years and still much more to learn. 

6 years for your girl to be hanging there on the other side of the globe with SMSs as substitute for relationship?   

[BillyB]

PS.   Oooops...  should read first...  sorry to hear the visa story...    Did it change since March?

Last I heard from the Consulate is that Natalia could receive her visa in in less than two to 4 months if all goes smooth. Once they get approval, they will hand the visa over to Natalia immediately. They been very polite and cooperative.

Although this has been dragging on, Natalia told me in Kiev that she thought it was good that we have known each other a long time. I didn't ask her why and she didn't tell me but after listening to some of the stories of one of her good friends became selfish and another is married to an unfaithful man, I knew why she thought she did. It's the way I think. People can disguise their bad character at the start of a new relationship, put their best foot forward or even if they're a decent person initially, they can change into a different person over time so it's important to know your partner well before marrying. In the 3 years I've known Natalia, we've never been in an argument. We can discuss hot topics without getting hostile to each other. Time and distance which also separates people have not separated us.

As far as the trip report goes, I'm really busy and can't put my best effort into it but give you a basic rundown of what I and Natalia experienced and our observations.

My observations in Kiev pertaining to issues that have been discussed here occasionally:

Interracial relationships: I've seen an Asian man with a RW at the opera house and she seemed happy to be with him as she was all smiles. I've seen a black man with a RW but I don't know if she was really interested in him. I'm half Asian myself and I didn't notice anyone looking at me funny but I did notice lots of men eyeballing Natalia and a couple of cops at a museum trying to talk and flirt with her. I'm not the jealous type and I don't mind as long as the men aren't looking at my azz and flirting with me. I seen three black children at the zoo playing with Ukrainian children with no tension or hint of any racism.

Smoking: I thought I never seen women smoke as much as the women in St. Petersburg but Kiev beats them hands down. Nearly everybody there smokes. I wonder who's going to pay the medical bill in the future? For those who find it disgusting to see women smoke, good luck finding a nonsmoker in Kiev.

Height differences: I've noticed a higher percentage of women there are more open to men who are shorter than herself. One couple with a baby at the zoo and she was 6 inches/ 15 cm taller than her husband.

Weight: Many of the young ladies in Kiev were thin but many of them were with big stocky men, some with beer bellies more than what I've seen in America.

Age: Again compared to America, I've seen a higher ratio of young ladies with Ukrainian boyfriends old enough to be their father.

By no means am I saying the majority of young Ukrainian women want much older, overweight, and short men but I'm just saying I've seen more of it there accepted than in America.

Ukraine, under new management, is liquidating it's hardware. Their loss is your gain. Feed your ego, intimidate your enemies, hold entire nations hostage, and finally get respect from your wife that you deserve. Size does matter. Drive this mobile ballistic missile home today!

[BillyB]

Natalia says the people in Kiev seem to be happy based on their tone of voice when they talk. That was the same feeling she had in St. Petersburg too. But Moscow was different and she felt the people there were more grumpy. I guess one can say Moscow is America's equivalent to New York city.

Although many Ukrainian seem happy and I did see some acts of kindness such as a young lady giving up her seat to a babushka and a babushka giving up her seat to a young lady with a baby on the metro, all that one soured based on one incident. As we were walking down the street one night though a neighborhood, an older man, small in build and in his young to mid 50's, ran past us with 4 kids, aged 12-14 chasing and throwing sticks at him. They were not angry at him but seem to enjoy the act of bullying. I told Natalia we should do something. She said nobody is doing anything about it on the busy sidewalk so that means the kids won't listen. I told her she's probably right but I can't sleep at night if I didn't take some type of action. The man was zig zagging and ran off the sidewalk into traffic in an attempt to lose the kids with no success so he turned around and ran back down the sidewalk towards us and I told Natalia to speak to the kids. In a harsh tone, she told the kids to leave the man alone. They slowed from a run to a walk but later down the sidewalk they ran again to look for the man. Apparently the man lost them. I told Natalia if I see those kids again doing the same thing, I'm going to take their sticks away from them and kick them to the ground among other things to give them something to remember in hopes they stop what their doing. The man probably lives almost everyday of his life in fear of these kids as they wait for him when he comes home from work. Natalia asked me if I was very upset the incident and I said yeah, not just because of the kids, but more from the lack of reaction from the many Ukrainian adults walking down the sidewalk. Who wants to live in a society where adults let kids bully old men?

In the eight times I've been in the FSU and not qualified to judge everyday life, it's seems I alway meet someone who needs ass whipped from the BS they give to others. Half the times it's the cops themselves.

Speaking of cops, I didn't see nowhere near as many cops in Kiev as I did in Russia or Uzbekistan. Ukraine is more tourist friendly and based on the direction their taking, they are move towards Western standards in the way they do things.

For the first time in her life, Natalia has heard people speak Russian with an accent. From Uzbekistan to Russia she didn't notice a difference. In Moscow or St. Petersburg, nobody asked her if she was from out of town because she spoke Russian the same way. In Kiev, not only did people speak with heavy accents, some spoke poorly. One sign Ukraine is moving away from Russia. Also all cafes we went to have menus in Ukrainian. At some cafes, Natalia had to ask if they have a menu in Russian. Natalia also asked one lady for directions in Russian and the lady responded with the answer in Ukrainian. The best Russian she heard spoken in Kiev was from a Russian lady who was a tourist herself.

Here's a photo of Natalia on a boat cruise with me and a photo of I standing next to a couple of old Soviet tanks. I was fortunate to see a lot of old Soviet military hardware including MIGs. We went to a lot of museums including a WW2 one. I had my hand on an actual Nazi helmet and my finger in the hole made from the bullet that ended his life. I suspect that was put on display on purpose for a reason instead of a Nazi helmet in good condition.

[Ooooops]

I told Natalia to speak to the kids... I told Natalia if I see those kids again doing the same thing, I'm going to take their sticks away from them and kick them to the ground among other things to give them something to remember in hopes they stop what their doing.

I'm sorry to ask but why didn't you deal with those kids yourself at the first time?   

[Taz]

Are you always this way Ooooops, wanting to stir stuff up? How often do you get involved in these types of things? As I understand it, and I could be wrong, Billy isn't that good of a Russian speaker. So if the kids don't understand English how is he going to communicate effectively with them? Just beat their ass without trying to explain to them first?

I've been involved in similar situations with unruly Russian or Ukrainians. I've intervened when they were being taken advantage of but I speak the language pretty well. There have been some pretty stressful situations when it might have been the most prudent action on my part to NOT get involved but so far it turned out ok. Fortunately I am a pretty big guy and spent a few years in the military and years of tae-kwon-do training. I am pretty good at taken care of myself but you never know when someone might have a gun or a knife.

It is always a risky thing to get involved in these things anyway. Could be a very poor ending to your trip. I remember when a bunch of skinheads were going from car to car when I was in Piter and being a PITA to everyone on the car. The would go through the doors connecting the cars. I blocked the one they wanted to use to enter our car. They were highly pissed off and then had to leave through the main doors and then come in the car. The ringleader was highly ticked off and came towards me as I was getting off the train. He took a swing at me with a big metal pipe. He truly intended to kill me. I stepped to the side, grabbed it with one hand and use my other arm to elbow him in the face. He went down in gurgling pile of blood from his shattered nose and cheekbone. The rest of his buddies didn't come near me and scooped up the POS off the platform. This was the time when the skinheads would go from train to train stabbing anybody that wasn't white. Hopefully this still isn't an issue there.

I'd generally suggest not getting involved though in any of this unless you have a good idea about what is going on. I am for one not the kind of guy to let someone get taken advantage of as in general I am a good Samaritan. At the same time I am also pretty careful about getting involved in situation that could turn ugly very quickly. Sometimes you just never know. I still have a scar from 100 stitches I got an illegal immigrant when I was stabbed in the stomach. As bad as it was for me, he got the worst of it.

[Ooooops]

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, Billy isn't that good of a Russian speaker. So if the kids don't understand English how is he going to communicate effectively with them? Just beat their ass without trying to explain to them first?

Hey, stop it - is international enough, I think.     Or just walk away if you can't help.   But to ask your lady to get involved...  I don't know, sounds strange to me...   

[BillyB]

Taz, I'm not offended by Ooooops question. Based on the poor results after Natalia talking to them, dealing with the kids in a violent way assisted by Natalia translating what I do to them if I caught them again would have been the right choice. Talking common sense and making them feel guilty verbally didn't work.  I made the wrong decision. I could have done more and it's going to weigh in on my conscience that the old man may be bullied to no end.

Ooops, it may seem strange I had Natalia talked to them and get involved but I don't speak Ukrainian or Russian. In no way would I have put her in danger if I thought I couldn't control the situation if it got out of control. And just in case you might have thought I was a little scared, I was not. I joined the Army airborne during the first Gulf War when Iraq attacked Kuwait the Kuwaiti people. I'm not afraid to get hurt and I do have a genuine interest in helping people even if I have to endure some pain.

[Ooooops]

And just in case you might have thought I was a little scared, I was not.

No, I didn't think that.       

[steviej]

Ooops, it may seem strange I had Natalia talked to them and get involved but I don't speak Ukrainian or Russian.

Actually, the one time that I never get involved in anything is if my wife is with me. There is nothing worth risking that something could happen that hurt her. If there's anything funny going on, and she's with me, I make a quick dash in the opposite direction. If it looks like someone needs help (and I have a cellphone), I make a quick call to the authorities to let them know. But rule 1, job 1, is to keep my wife away and out of it. If I was alone, I might consider intervention, but you never know what crazy you're dealing with, and some of these people have weapons. I say, let the professional deal with it.

[BillyB]

I can't remember reading in a trip report if anyone ever went to the Circus in the FSU. I've been to 4 of them in 4 different cities and it's worth it. The entertainment isn't just for kids. The clowns could make even the adults laugh and the acrobatic performers are spectacular and near Olympic quality in abilities. Even the Russian bears are great performers. I seen one driving a motorcycle.

If some of you are going to the FSU for the first time, you may be lost and you may rely on the lady/s you're visiting to make the decisions on what you're going to do and it may seem like you're a "yes" man. Before going, search the internet for info on the city you're visiting and tell your lady where you'd like to go. Go to the zoo for example if  the city has one. Not only can you see the animals but you can observe your lady's behavior. Does she look at kids with loving eyes or does she look at the noisy kids as pests? Many guys go to the FSU to win women's hearts but some women's hearts aren't worth winning. Be ready to move on if she's not what you're looking for.

One evening we went to an Opera. Lot's of single women there I've notice. That's a hint for you single guys. I'm not a big fan of Opera but I do admire the performer's voices. At the performance I went to, I really enjoyed one piece that happens to be in a youtube video in this thread. I suggest you watch and listen. It may make an opera fan out of you. OK, maybe not but just a little.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6634.0

Kiev is really booming and growing I noticed with large modern buildings being built just about everywhere. Here's three tall one's near completion behind my fiancee in the first photo and the Rodina Monument in the second where one can also find a lot of military themed museums.

[Jumper]

Nice report billy..!

i've been to a UA circus a few times..
 and would recommend it also!
 in about any city..


not so much the zoo ..
as in some cities it was a bit  depressing.
(not good conditions for  animals)
maybe thats changed..

[BillyB]

Nice report billy..!

i've been to a UA circus a few times..
 and would recommend it also!
 in about any city..


not so much the zoo ..
as in some cities it was a bit  depressing.
(not good conditions for  animals)
maybe thats changed..

Good to hear you had fun at the circus too AJ. It's fun for all ages. The zoo in Kiev has a lot of modern improvements and is the least smelliest zoo I've ever been to. Unfortunately some animals are still living in iron and concrete cages built by the Communist and they don't look happy.

I notice in Kiev some of the facial features of Ukrainians looked Western European and less Slavic than those wholive in Russia. Makes sense as they are closer to the West than Russia.

Not all bathrooms have toilet paper. Fortunately I didn't need toilet paper when I was out of the hotel. One toilet in a museum consisted of a porcelain hole in the ground. Fortunately I had no reason to squat. It was the kind of bathroom I've seen a lot in Uzbekistan. I asked Natalia how do these toilets get flushed so the crap can flow to the sewer. She tells me that those toilets don't lead to the sewer and someone comes in and uses their hand to clean them out.

We were lucky enough to be in town when Paul McCartney was giving a free concert. It rained hard early on but it stopped. Rain sometimes fall in near Biblical proportions in Kiev. We've even seen hail fall and here we are in the June.

At the concert Natalia and I were getting squished at one point. It was getting hard to breath as massive bodies were pushing forward to get closer to Paul McCartney. I told Natalia we need to get out of this area. I certainly didn't want to be a fatality. I told her not to fall because once people are stepping on you, there's no getting up. Natalia couldn't push her way through the crowd so I told her to get behind me and I plowed my way through to get out.

Here's a couple of photos of Paul. The first is on a big screen and the second is of him from where I was standing and with a 250mm zoom from my camera. He still looks small but that's as close as we got to the stage. Photos may be a little fuzzy because it was near impossible to stay still with so many bodies pushing on me.