A letter to Ambach123

[Gator]

So your guess is that the only way those girls can afford Marche (it's not that expensive, just a buffet style eatery), Soho and The DeVinci Fish Club (don't know anything about those) is to milk some foreigner?

I researched Da Vinci Fish Club, thinking it was a place where I dined three years ago.  It was not.  BTW, the notes from Visit Kiev webpage on Da Vinci are, "Popular with businessmen and models."  That says it all, especially if the UW knows the first name of the maitre d'.  Good example, Greg.

The place I went to was another Italian restaurant called "Dolce" (good name).  It was suggested by my date from Kiev, and the prices are not inexpensive.  Was my date a Professional Dater - Good Time Girl?  I think the litmus test proved her not so.  What test?  I talked her into having a raw oyster (her first).  She gave the Orthodox Sign of the Cross before trying it. 

[ScottinCrimea]

What will become of it, time will tell, but I anticipate that eventually I would select one of them and bring her to USA by the time the year is out.

This sounds like you are looking to buy a puppy -  searcg things out on e-bay, go check out the merchandise, select one and arrange for shipment home.

You seem to forget that this is not only your choice and that the selcetion process works both ways.  This could be part of why you have gone from 20 to 2 so quickly.

You also talk about a time frame - go meet her over coffee, select one, return one more time to propose and begin the k-1 and have her arrive at your door 6 months later.  You need to realize that the 'selection" process is the easiest part of this whole thing, with things getting progressively more difficult through the dating, the visa processing and ultimately getting her settled in the US.  You still have much to learn, my friend.

[msmoby_ru]

msmoby; I see no obligation to respond to any questions.

No argument there.. thanks for responding to mine....

I respond to those who I think I should respond to, the others I ignore. I don't have any desire to get involved in arguments with people who are complete strangers to me.

Again, no problem with part one, yet I am a complete stranger, too....

But why ask for advice, then within days start handing out advice as if you've "Been there, seen it, done it" - which by your own admission, you haven't...?  

In fact, I'd go as far to say that you'd rather not "pick a fight " with someone with whom you know would "wipe the floor with you" - and I fully realise you replied to me

I read from other people's experience and make my own inferences.

Sorry, ambach123 - but *I* see no indication of of a "learning curve" here, just more symptoms of Troll -like behaviour.. your responses do suggest any absorption of data

I have and will modify my plans pursuant to some of the experiences that I have read here.

Yet again, based on you responses, IF you will go to Kiev, you might tell us what you feel you'd like some of us to hear... I seriously doubt it will reflect reality.

I don't have any desire to pick up a fight with you or anyone else.

I'm not seeking a "fight".. I'm making an observation, and conclusions based on your posts.

By the way, the mods also suggest using the ignore button, you should use it too. You see something that you don't like, move on. It would be very peaceful for everyone.

1/ Those that suggest this- including me, only a few days, ago, forget that your quotes still show in other persons messages
2/ I don't need / want to "ignore" you.

I think Blues Fairy made some good points and still wonder why you would seek to avoid replying - unless I'm right in my contention above...


Russia 2 - 0 Sweden .. 10 minutes to go !!!

[GreginGa]

I think that once Ambach123 makes his first trip then his attitude will be different. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and wishing him all the luck. I'll even be happy to buy the ole boy a beer in Kiev as it looks like we might be there at the same time. Until anyone gets on that plane and makes the first trip then I think we should cut them some slack. We've all been exactly where he is now in some way or another. He's got women writing letters and making phone calls and it can be confusing I would think on a new guy. I think he's scaled down the meet 20 in 10 days thing and thats a good idea. Two years from now I hope we're all talking about Ambach123's success and how we doubted him and how some thought he howled at the moon and everything that goes with it.

The first time I ever went to Kiev one of my best friends was coaching me. He helped me with an apartment. I still rent that apartment when we go by the way some 7 years later. Anyways he hooked me up with an old boy from North Carolina that was going a day or so after me. Me and this guy talked on the phone several times a week and sometimes twice daily getting ourselves pumped mentally about the trip. I changed my ticket so we could hangout for a couple of days in Kiev as we were sharing the same apartment. Anyways after meeting this guy I knew within the first 5 minutes that this was one stupid Mu$#$% Fu%#er. This clown steps out on the balcony and starts screaming I'M HERE, I'M HERE NOTHING CAN STOP ME NOW!!!BRING ON THE GIRLS!!  To make a long story short. We were walking around Kiev that evening and a rather nice looking prostitute approached me as I was the best looking guy of the 3 that was walking. I politely told her that I wasnt interested and that maybe one of my friends might oblige her. This clown from North Carolina jumps all on it. I come back to our room which we had agreed to share sometime around 3AM. Some 5 or 6 hours their initial meeting. Anyways this guy gets pissed even though he had a private room. He's trying to true love this girl and gives me her life story and thinks that I'm home too early. I'm like dude it's been 6 hours and I'm ready to lay down. You have a private room,no big deal. Well the next day this focking guy tells me that i'm going to have to get a hotel room for the next 2 nights. I said man I've already changed my ticket and I'm not paying $100 a night for a hotel. He starts shouting and telling me that the apartment should be his and he wants privacy and blah blah blah and he's going to be seeing this girl again and he really likes her and that i'm in the way. So I did the right thing. I ended up jacking his ass up against the wall and threatening to kick the shiat out of him if he even spoke to me again. It was unbelievable. It just goes to show you that people can change. Some for the better and some like this clown from North Carolina that was in the jewelry business. Ambach123 you have 3 months before you take the dive so to speak. Read more, post less and try to have a good time. I wish you the best.

[Ooooops]

What test?  I talked her into having a raw oyster (her first).  She gave the Orthodox Sign of the Cross before trying it. 

Did she apologize to it for eating it alive as well?   

I love oysters...   We plucked them right off the rocks at Olympic Peninsula.   This is my gear for oyster picking.   

[steviej]

IThis clown steps out on the balcony and starts screaming I'M HERE, I'M HERE NOTHING CAN STOP ME NOW!!!BRING ON THE GIRLS!! 

Oh my G*d, what a story !! 

He probably went home with a whole new bunch of microscopic friends as well

You are right, though. It's possible that ambach could turn this thing around. The big red flad to me seems to be his projection that this is more about buying merchandise on eBay rather than dealing with living breathing human females, and all that entails. We'll see. Some movies do have a happy ending.

[Gator]

I love oysters...   We plucked them right off the rocks at Olympic Peninsula.   This is my gear for oyster picking.   

Salivating photo.  I lived near Olympia a long time ago, ventured to the Peninsula, ate the oysters, but never plucked nor shucked.

Did she apologize to it for eating it alive as well?   

I never told her that, or she probably would have declined.

While working in New Orleans, I frequented places such as Acme Oyster House.   One afternoon upon exiting , a video crew on the sidewalk approached me and asked me to participate in a commercial about the joys of dining on raw oysters.  I said, "Sure," the crew set up around me, and I signed releases. 

Soon, filming commenced and the interviewer asked me a couple of questions followed by, "What is your favorite part about eating raw oysters?" 

Me:  "They are so fresh that I can see their little hearts beating as I raise them to my mouth." 

Him:  "Cut!"

Should I have instead mentioned the oyster's rectum and anus?

[Ooooops]

Me:  "They are so fresh that I can see their little hearts beating as I raise them to my mouth." 

Him:  "Cut!"

Should I have instead mentioned the oyster's rectum and anus?

 

I really splurged in New Orleans - 4.95 per dozen of fresh oysters - I ate them by hundreds!      And the "raki" - Louisiana crawfish bloil!    Man, oh man!   I sure miss that...

[topofthekey]

maybe i should have started another thread but reading through this i came up with a question.

I know Kiev is turning into a big time business hub/ city in eastern europe but just in general I'd like to hear more about lunch/ dinner date spending. Now here in the midwest- you name the big city (KC, chicago, omaha, whatever) you can go out and easily find what you want- ribs, sandwhich whatever for 20 bucks a plate. Sure I've spent a lot more and you certainly can buy $100 bottles of wine or plates of food that cost a lot more. But in general a middle class family of 4 here can go out and order a meal at 12 bucks a plate, get drinks, desert whatever and spend less than that 100 dollar figure you guys noted.

Now spending 100 bucks isn't a real big deal, but I'm just guessing that most of the dinners for 2 you have here in the USA don't cost that much (or if you are only a fine diner- then maybe they do). But what I'm wondering is if you go out a spend 100 or more on dinner aren't they looking at you like a sucker?

Wouldn't it be smarter to go out to a cafe or coffee shop/ juice bar (whatever) and have the be a first screening process?

Now I know I'm not looking at agencies and am looking at more of a vacation, but curiousity got the better of me.

Maybe meeting them for coffee is a better way to screen them and set up second dates with ones you click with- that way you can meet more in a day to narrow down your list- then at the same time those looking to scam you or for an expensive dinner will leave you alone (for the most part anyways)

[dispozo]

Wouldn't it be smarter to go out to a cafe or coffee shop/ juice bar (whatever) and have the be a first screening process?

I think the problem with that is that some of these ladies Ambach is meeting are from out of town.  They may be taking a day off from work. They may have to take a several hour bus or train ride to Kiev. I feel she deserves a lot more then just coffee. But that is just me.

[Jet]

Now spending 100 bucks isn't a real big deal, but I'm just guessing that most of the dinners for 2 you have here in the USA don't cost that much (or if you are only a fine diner- then maybe they do). But what I'm wondering is if you go out a spend 100 or more on dinner aren't they looking at you like a sucker?

My experience isn't recent, and it's in provincial Russia, not Kiev, but the problem I found was that there were two classes of restaurants

• Great and expensive
• horrible and cheap

And virtually nothing in between.

Even back in '02-'03 one could easily dump $150.00 for dinner and drinks (without having a terp to pay for) at a nice place and even more in Moscow.

[Jet]

I think the problem with that is that some of these ladies Ambach is meeting are from out of town.  They may be taking a day off from work. They may have to take a several hour bus or train ride to Kiev. I feel she deserves a lot more then just coffee. But that is just me.

Totally agree! If I were travelling overnite to meet someone, it better be more than a 5 minute interview at Dunkin' Donuts! Same principle should apply to the ladies...

[topofthekey]

Totally agree! If I were travelling overnite to meet someone, it better be more than a 5 minute interview at Dunkin' Donuts! Same principle should apply to the ladies...

Totally, and maybe i really should have started another thread because it really was just a general question (nothing to do with ambach's situation or plight might be a good term).

In Sofia it looks think there are a nice range of bars, clubs, and restaurants- so maybe its different than Kiev. I thought there would be some american chains in Kiev- but what do i know.

I'm totally with you guys on not wanting to eat in a dump- I'd rather pay 150 for good food and a good experience compared to the alternatives you mentioned.

But assuming they were locals. And I'm guessing Ambach may even meet some locals. Wouldn't it be smarter to pay their cab fare both ways, but just have coffee or something the first time?

[Jet]

But assuming they were locals. And I'm guessing Ambach may even meet some locals. Wouldn't it be smarter to pay their cab fare both ways, but just have coffee or something the first time?

Absolutely, and I used to do this in the US when I was single as well...drinks or coffee, and if things went well I could always extend it.

[Kuna]

Totally, and maybe i really should have started another thread because it really was just a general question (nothing to do with ambach's situation or plight might be a good term).

In Sofia it looks think there are a nice range of bars, clubs, and restaurants- so maybe its different than Kiev. I thought there would be some american chains in Kiev- but what do i know.

I'm totally with you guys on not wanting to eat in a dump- I'd rather pay 150 for good food and a good experience compared to the alternatives you mentioned.

But assuming they were locals. And I'm guessing Ambach may even meet some locals. Wouldn't it be smarter to pay their cab fare both ways, but just have coffee or something the first time?

Top,

At this point there are so many variables.

As the other guys have said if you're going to be meeting ladies traveling from outside Kiev, etc it wold be rude to shout them a coffee and send them on their way... but you have choices to not meet ladies traveling from surrounding towns.

I sense you're yet to find your feet (and that's reasonable) because your talk is still much about Bulgaria, Estonia, etc and the ladies expectations are likely to be MUCH different there than in UKR or RU. 

As I just said in another thread if this is your plan your dating experiences are going to be much more tlike dating in German and France - perhaps just with more attractive women than you'd find in Germany and France  ).

To answer your original question...  you can eat affordably while in cities like Kiev but the question will be DO you want to eat "reasonably".  You certainly shouldn't splurge but yu don't want to get to know a woman while eating in a dump do you?

At the moment you're just developing knowledge - and that's a good thing.  Don't make any decisions yet but consider this:

1. You end up deciding to travel to Ukraine, because Estonia and Latvia don't have the same style of agencies anymore.
2. You plan your trip and decide you want to meet many ladies and see if any click, and then you'll start writing to her and only her on your return and you'll let the relationship evolve.  In this case yore not writing before meeting, just using an agency (effectively for speed dating) and a coffee will be fine.
3. The alternative is to write to ladies before traveling. Some will say you can still meet many.  This is more touchy because any correspondence stretching for months will unavoidably come with expectations.  Do this and take a lady for a coffee only and you might hurt some feeling or look like a schmuck to someone you really like.
4. You might write to many but find one who you're very focused on.  Maybe you go to meet ONLY her and if that doesn't work out you roll back to option 2 above - use agencies for speed dating.  Would that be so bad?

There's lots of info here and lots of discussion to come.  You sound like a sensible guy so I'm sure you'll find the bst approach for you.

As said earlier though, consider the increased difficulties with countries like Bulgaria, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia in the current economic and political climate.

Kuna

[ScottinCrimea]

Just my observations on totk's question:  My experience is only with Ukraine, not so much in Russia and I admit that it has been a couple of years, but I too have been quite surprised to hear how people are paying upwards of $100 a person in rrestaurants in Kiev and other cities.  I disagree with jet that you only have expensive and great or cheap and horrible.  I have found many places that fall into the inexpensive and quite good category.  It may be difficult to find them because the women typically might go to the cheaper local places so they know these, and they know the expensive places by reputation or through visits by their foreign suitors, but there are still many places that fall into the middle category.  I can find many places where I can get excellent food for under $10 a person.  Even TGI Friday in Kiev has prices and food similar to in the US and would be a very reasonable place for a first date.  Not exactly the place to set a romantic mood, but very appropriate for a first date.

[topofthekey]

Thanks Kuna-

And considering some of the trips I've been able to take (I'm a lucky guy) trips to Tallinn and Sofia do seem do-able to me. Bunch of good info. The first thing I wrote in my first thread was that I wasn't writing anyone- just so everyone knew that I wasn't leading anyone on. Personally I don't plan to write anyone and I understand both countries are emerging markets that have joined the EU.

For me at this point I'll probably end up meeting girls around the city- so coffee or drinks will work out for me. I was just curious since they were talking about restaurants.

As for ambach- maybe the question will help the guy out. So he treats the women that are traveling to meet him right. but- at the same time doesn't spend 150 bucks on pro daters in Kiev if he uses an agency.

[Jet]

I disagree with jet that you only have expensive and great or cheap and horrible.  I have found many places that fall into the inexpensive and quite good category.  It may be difficult to find them because the women typically might go to the cheaper local places so they know these, and they know the expensive places by reputation or through visits by their foreign suitors, but there are still many places that fall into the middle category.

You're not really disagreeing, we had different experiences in different places, nothing wrong with that 
It's a 370 mile drive from my wife's place to the nearest TGIFriday's, so what you save on the tab you make up for in gas 
Seriously, when we were in Moscow we were both visitors so we really didn't have any idea where the good local spots were.

[ScottinCrimea]

Believe me, Jet, I found plenty of places that were cheap and not so cheap with crappy food before I knew where to go.  It was mostly trial and error, as often my idea of crappy food was different from some of the locals.  Unfortunately, most here don't have the luxury of time to do the trial and error thing.

[Ooooops]

I don't think it's about the price - it's about amount of attention that those ladies deserve.   Cup of coffee lasts half an hour, it's just ain't enough.    Quite rude, actually - sorry, gotta run, other candidates are waiting... 

[steviej]

Has anyone eaten in a place in Kiev, which I think translates as "Big Belly?". It's a kind of buffet/cafeteria line, with great traditional food and good prices. (At least they seemed good to me). No one has mentioned it, but I think there were several of them around Kiev.

As an American guy traveling around, you can meet local girls anywhere you are anyway you want. "Hi, hey, let's get a cup of coffee and you can tell me about Kiev, etc" Or, "Maybe we could stop somewhere for a drink", Or, "Would you like to take a shower  But, if you have corresponded in advance, if girls are expecting you, if you contacted them through agencies that specialize in matching men and women with the intent of creating long term relationships, and especially if they have traveled, then the protocol is very different. These ladies deserve a lot more consideration. I think Kuna enumerated quite well above the several different scenarios.

You can tell that us more experienced guys are somewhat protective towards the ladies if any expectations have been set. They really are (most) wonderful girls and we want them to have experiences that Western men are solid, considerate gentlemen, even if the romantic angle doesn't work out. This is important for the next fine fellow that will follow in your footsteps.

By the way, just to repeat, Bulgaria is definitely not Russia, and never has been. Are the girls pretty there? I've heard than some consider the Romanian girls quite attractive. Bulgaria and Romania are not Slavic. If you have Slavic fever, you won't find it there, but I've heard they have some real beauties too.

[Taz]

Honestly I wouldn't get sucked into dinner on the first date ESPECIALLY if I don't know the place we are dining at. Have a cup of coffee or tea the first meeting. If it goes well add a slice of cake and extend it a bit. I am not cheap by any stretch but getting stuck in a long meal with a bad date is like torture.

OTOH, if she starts ordering everything expensive on the menu it sure tells me she isn't the one. I had a woman do that and I politely excused myself to the restroom and never came back. She ordered literally the most expensive salad, soup, entree, etc. When it was obvious I was being taken for a ride I decided to hitch one myself. I did give the waiter my portion of the tab before I left of course. She had literally ordered about $60 worth of food. After she'd only take a few bites of the soup and then a few nibbles of a seafood salad it was pretty well etched in my mind what she was all about.

It is often easier to extend the date if it is going well than to block off too much time up front. You can always go for a little stroll too. Who says you MUST go to a cafe/bar/restaurant to have a first date. Sometimes when the weather is good I'd rather be outside than stuck in some smelly establishment filled with cigarette smoke. Downside is sometimes it can be noise outside but many indoor places are extremely noisy as well especially in the bigger cities.

[steviej]

Taz, I certainly defer to your advice. You have your own experiences, and you have seen the foibles of others as well. The original comments started from, there was some guy named ambach or something (think he's vanished at this point) talking about how he was going to have 20 women coming in to Kiev on overnight trains from far away places, and meet them 15 min. for coffee. That struck me and some others as just too crass. That's probably an extreme case anyway.

[Taz]

I see your point. He does come across as rather arrogant at times. If his posts are any indication, what he seems to be willing to offer the most to women is his alleged wealth. A surprising number of RW/UW will have dated men far richer than he will likely ever be. If he doesn't treat all people well, they will surely pick up on it.

Bringing in 20 women would be a logistical nightmare anyway. Perhaps he should hire someone to "manage" the women for him. Hell, if he is so loaded, why not pay a company to put on a "private" tour for him. That might be the way to go.

Still I'll stick with the shorter first dates in case it goes bad. Sort of like the dating version of "coyote ugly!" I've had about 3 RW/UW dates that were like that. Not ugly in the sense of looks but ugly in the sense of the woman's personality and how bad the date was going.

[Ooooops]

She had literally ordered about $60 worth of food.

 

Ok, I get it - line them up and date them cheap.