A letter to Ambach123

[Taz]

Sorry, can't say that I've ever lined them up.

You have to work pretty hard to spend $60 in a restaurant for one person, without any alcohol, outside of Kiev, Moscow or Piter. I've spent some pretty decent money on meals but it was for someone truly special to me and not on a first date.

If this was how this woman normally lived I could understand but on her salary it was solely to gouge me. I am a pretty generous guy but don't demand generosity from me, I don't demand sex.

What a woman orders on a first date says a lot about her character. You'll know pretty quickly if a woman is out to take advantage of you.

[Ooooops]

What a woman orders on a first date says a lot about her character.

Or not.   She might be a clever one and pretend not to be hungry, but later on take a half of you savings.      C'mon, guys, that's just cheap...   

[ambach123]

When all is done, I may not have met with even ten ladies. Many would not show up. Most of them specially the Kiev girls are complete strangers to me. You can't establish communication with someone who does not want to. The only answer I get is " I would love to meet with you, call me when you are in town, here is my phone number ". Some go on to say " I am not interesed in a pen friend ".

It appears the only viable option for me is to meet them first.

I am considering staying at the Hotel President or the Hotel Dniper; both of them are in the center city, they have concierge services that can help with the scheduling, they can also receive my guests, make them comfortable before she meets me. They also have several restuarants in the hotel, one can move from one to another. They also have private meeting facilities. Also they take credit cards so I don't have to bring local cash.

I would act and dress exactly like I was on a first date in my country; very courteous but reserved, wear a dark suite and a tie; talk less listen more and observe.

I will also observe how they are dressed, showing too much skin is a no no for me; well I eliminated those profiles anyway.

What one can tell in an hour or two, I am not sure. But I can tell if she feels comfortable with me and the surroundings at least by the end of the first hour.

Whether anything would come out of it or not, only time would tell.

[Blues Fairy]

The only answer I get is " I would love to meet with you, call me when you are in town, here is my phone number ". Some go on to say " I am not interesed in a pen friend ".

You have their phone numbers, man.  Why don't you pick up the phone and just call them?  They may be working full-time jobs with no time for writing, or they may just dislike writing letters.  But you, you have their digits and still whine that they don't want to establish communication.  How much time would you wait to call if a cute American girl handed you her phone number?

[ambach123]

BF, I have talked to all of them on the phone, some several times. that is a prerequisite for all before any meeting.
Some of them are conversant in English, some have difficulties. It is not the same as talking to an AW.

[Gator]

What a woman orders on a first date says a lot about her character.

Or not.   She might be a clever one and pretend not to be hungry, but later on take a half of you savings.      C'mon, guys, that's just cheap...   

I also believe such it is not a reliable measure of character.

These women are schooled on what to do and say.  Most will try to act frugal or at least defer to your suggestion if they are attempting to impress you.  Meanwhile, thay are probably thinking how much they would enjoy a nice cut of meat.

Nevertheless, if a model-type pulls you into GreginGeorgia's Dante Fish Club and orders lobster without discussing it with you, run!!!!  I mean that you should immediately rise from the table, leave about $10 for the waiter and walk out without a word.  You are the man.

I always encouraged women to order something special.  First, I want them to have an enjoyable dinner experience.  Second, it gives the initial impression that perhaps you are not greedy.   Third, life is too short to drink cheap wine.

[dispozo]

You can't establish communication with someone who does not want to. The only answer I get is " I would love to meet with you, call me when you are in town, here is my phone number ".

I would think if they were really interested in you, they would want and try to communicate with you.

If you want to know the person more before you meet. I would focus one the ladies that write you and learn everything you can about them before you leave.

[msmoby_ru]

Honestly I wouldn't get sucked into dinner on the first date ESPECIALLY if I don't know the place we are dining at. Have a cup of coffee or tea the first meeting. If it goes well add a slice of cake and extend it a bit. I am not cheap by any stretch but getting stuck in a long meal with a bad date is like torture.

I think you are equating dating in the USA with going all the way to the FSU.. it isn't the same and surely you would have talked / emailed and knew a little more about the lady, than you would with a date back home ?!

OTOH, if she starts ordering everything expensive on the menu it sure tells me she isn't the one. I had a woman do that and I politely excused myself to the restroom and never came back. She ordered literally the most expensive salad, soup, entree, etc. When it was obvious I was being taken for a ride I decided to hitch one myself. I did give the waiter my portion of the tab before I left of course. She had literally ordered about $60 worth of food. After she'd only take a few bites of the soup and then a few nibbles of a seafood salad it was pretty well etched in my mind what she was all about.

As above, this has never happened to me.. are you doing ANY filtering before a date?

It is often easier to extend the date if it is going well than to block off too much time up front. 

Agreed, but what if you have another date - lined up ... ? Could you REALLY ring her/ the agency up in front of your present date? I've read many reports here where the guys think every lady is great- until they meet the next one. Now I know you know the area, and you've been many times, so COULD it be that your methodology isn't sound - not working... ? .. or isn't your aim to find a wife, but to have a good time ! Which is great as long as the ladies know that - beforehand.

This is NOT a WOVO propaganda post - it is a "you know the FSU is different - and how a  man is "expected* to behave on a date ..

[Taz]

Or not.   She might be a clever one and pretend not to be hungry, but later on take a half of you savings.      C'mon, guys, that's just cheap...   

I still maintain it tells a lot about the woman. If she orders all the most important things on the menu, without consulting me, it does speak volumes about her. OTOH if she doesn't order the most expensive things on the menu I can infer two likely things. Either it is her nature OR she has been coached.

Either way it does tell me a lot. In the first instance where she is likely to order anything she wants without asking she is likely a pro dater or the kind of woman I wouldn't be interested in anyway.

Unlike many of you here, I don't typically use an agency to meet women. I tend to meet them doing things I normally would or via friends. My language skills and charisma tend to work pretty well without it assuming I have enough time.

For all of you who think WOVO is the answer on this topic I respectfully disagree. You might get lucky, you might not. Words  (and letters) are cheap. Actions tell you much more about a person than letters ever will. So you may think you can filter, assess, measure, etc. but tell the rubber hits the road you aren't REALLY going to know. I could be the best "virtual" car driver in the world but when I actually strap on my helmet, get in my nomex suit and point the car down the track I'll never know. Even the best simulators have their limitations. I'll submit that a letter writing campaign, phone calls, etc. is more a virtual relationship than a real one. Until that point you have met in person at which time it becomes a non-virtual one.

Personally I'll keep first dates short. I don't line up a bunch of women to meet so it is easy for me to extend if all goes well. Alternatively if you are meeting several women you can still block off 2 hours for the date until the next one but plan initially for 30 minutes or so. Extend it out as needed. I think the key is to be flexible.

OTOH if you are a WOVO and your first date goes bust, then what are you going to do? Slink away from the forum where you bragged about how you knew you were meant for each other before you met and how you filtered, pre-screened, etc. until you just KNEW she was the one. Early on I'd rather not put all my eggs into one basket no matter how good it might seem.

Once I am pretty comfortable with my woman then I tend to be more lavish in my gifts. I am NOT stingy by any stretch and I am sure SwissKid and myrddin will attest to that.

@msmoby_ru- why do you continually sugges that I am just there to have a good time? I was married to a RW for quite a while so obviously I wasn't there for just a good time!

[BC]

When it comes down to marrying a fsu woman there will likely be some 'make up' baggage involved.  Given the chance to spend, she will.

Believe it or not, our baby was lovingly fed a couple teaspoons of caviar for breakfast and I got my portion of 'pizdulay'(sp) when I tapped into the supplies.

[ScottinCrimea]

I am considering staying at the Hotel President or the Hotel Dniper; both of them are in the center city, they have concierge services that can help with the scheduling, they can also receive my guests, make them comfortable before she meets me. They also have several restuarants in the hotel, one can move from one to another. They also have private meeting facilities. Also they take credit cards so I don't have to bring local cash.

I would act and dress exactly like I was on a first date in my country; very courteous but reserved, wear a dark suite and a tie; talk less listen more and observe.

I will also observe how they are dressed, showing too much skin is a no no for me; well I eliminated those profiles anyway.

What one can tell in an hour or two, I am not sure. But I can tell if she feels comfortable with me and the surroundings at least by the end of the first hour.

Whether anything would come out of it or not, only time would tell.

Okay, I'm trying to get this picture in my mind:  You have the concierge call the girls to arrange to meet you according to your schedule.  They are to arrive at a high class hotel where the concierge will greet them, escort them to a seat in the lobby or a private meeting room.  You will then make your entrance in a dark suit and tie.  You will talk little, requiring her to maintain the conversation while you listen and observe, being always courteous but reserved.  Of course coffee and perhaps some cookies will be graciously served.

Are you sure this is exactly how you dress and act on a first date at home?  I'm sorry, but the only women who will feel comfortable in such a situation are those who frequent the lobbies of high class hotels there for other reasons.

[ambach123]

Scott I live in New England, most upscale restuarants here may not serve you without a jacket and a necktie.
I wear a dark suite almost always and most certainly on the first dates. Manhattan is  no different.

Guests ushered in is a fairly common paractice, at least where I live.

[topofthekey]

Scott I live in New England, most upscale restuarants here may not serve you without a jacket and a necktie.
I wear a dark suite almost always and most certainly on the first dates. Manhattan is  no different.

Guests ushered in is a fairly common paractice, at least where I live.

eh, now i have another question. first off i have a couple different black leather jackets so im set there. but- outside of job interviews, formal events, and business meetings i really dont like ties. i've got blazers and suits but as far as vacationing goes I'd much rather just wear my designer stuff with a leather coat minus a jacket and tie.

and i have to admit i have dark clothes- especially pants. but a lot of my shirts are bright. bright red. light green. is that a big no-no?

[Taz]

Ukraine isn't Boston! Or like any other place in the NE US. I spend a lot of time there and if you plan to approach it like that, you might want to amend your approach. Honestly this seems like a bit of a stilted approach there. Most women definitely won't feel comfortable in this situation. Honestly it is more like you are wearing your wealth on your sleeve. OTOH there are enough guys like that in the FSU you might just fit in. Unlikely that you will be as wealthy as them but have a good time.

I would definitely suggest meeting her in person if at all possible rather than let some hired hand do it for you. Are you taking an administrative assistant along as well to manage your social calendar? I would HIGHLY suggest you approach this more low key. Do you want the women to be attracted to YOU or your finances?

[ScottinCrimea]

Scott I live in New England, most upscale restuarants here may not serve you without a jacket and a necktie.
I wear a dark suite almost always and most certainly on the first dates. Manhattan is  no different.

Guests ushered in is a fairly common paractice, at least where I live.

ambach, If you still think this is anything like where you live, you need to step back and learn a whole lot more.

[ScottinCrimea]

eh, now i have another question. first off i have a couple different black leather jackets so im set there. but- outside of job interviews, formal events, and business meetings i really dont like ties. i've got blazers and suits but as far as vacationing goes I'd much rather just wear my designer stuff with a leather coat minus a jacket and tie.

and i have to admit i have dark clothes- especially pants. but a lot of my shirts are bright. bright red. light green. is that a big no-no?

A nice leather jacket without a tie is just fine.  I can count on one hand the number of times I wore a tie in Ukraine and believe me, if it had been necessary my wife would have tied it VERY TIGHT around my neck for me.  Stay away from the very bright shirts.  You might as well have a neon sign over your head saying "FOREIGNER WITH NO FASHION SENSE"

[ambach123]

You wear what you feel comfortable in, I feel comfortable in a dark suite, that has nothing to do with my wealth or lack of it.
Use of concierge is nothing unusual for us. Almost every upscale building in New York and Boston has one.

Staying in an upscale place is somethng I would do in my country, so why should I do it differently in another country? I don't get it, why is it showing off? I do the same here.

With regard to whether these practices are unaccpetable to Ukrianians and I should look elsewhere, I would consider that advice.

[dispozo]

The funny part about all of this is how FSW are so materialistic in the eyes of Ambach. But he doesn't mind showing or telling everyone how wealthy he is.....
Go figure

[TwoBitBandit]

With regard to whether these practices are unaccpetable to Ukrianians and I should look elsewhere, I would consider that advice.

I think of the advice here is more along the lines of "you should change your approach to fit the culture" rather than "go look in a different culture."

[ScottinCrimea]

You wear what you feel comfortable in, I feel comfortable in a dark suite, that has nothing to do with my wealth or lack of it.
Use of concierge is nothing unusual for us. Almost every upscale building in New York and Boston has one.

Staying in an upscale place is somethng I would do in my country, so why should I do it differently in another country? I don't get it, why is it showing off? I do the same here.

With regard to whether these practices are unaccpetable to Ukrianians and I should look elsewhere, I would consider that advice.

Your goal is not only to feel comfortable yourself, but to make them feel comfortable as well. Very few FSUW will feel comfortable in such a setting.

Shows of wealth are interpreted differently in the FSU than in the US and what may seem normal to you can easily send a very different message there.

The sooner you realize that you will not be in New York or Boston the better off you will be.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I will have to disagree with some of you.  If this is the life that Ambach lives then why should he change?  It would be more advantageous to him to find someone who is comfortable with this type of environment.  That would be the type of life she would be getting if she married him.  The only problem is being able to know that the woman is interested in the man not the life.  I would say spend a lot of face time and that would work itself out as well.

[ScottinCrimea]

I will have to disagree with some of you.  If this is the life that Ambach lives then why should he change?  It would be more advantageous to him to find someone who is comfortable with this type of environment.  That would be the type of life she would be getting if she married him.  The only problem is being able to know that the woman is interested in the man not the life.  I would say spend a lot of face time and that would work itself out as well.

All well and good, but he has already stated that his timeline is to make this trip, then another to start the k-1 and then have her shipped to the US within a year.

[LiveFromUkraine]

All well and good, but he has already stated that his timeline is to make this trip, then another to start the k-1 and then have her shipped to the US within a year.

He will see if reality keeps up with his timeline.  That attitude will most definately get him screwed.  I don't see what the reason for hurrying what will be one of the most important decisions in his life.  Now, lets talk about how he will handle the pre-nup.   



Thomas

[GreginGa]

Like I said earlier. I feel that when Ambach123 gets his feet on the ground in Kiev,gets checked into his hotel and goes on his 4th date,he will be a different man as far as his thinking and expectations. Here's a guy that has the recourses to not rush and to not get in a hurry. I think he could probably use the services of a guide/translator on his first trip. You just have to be careful about who you use. Some of these guys/gals certainly know how to put the fleece job on clients. A good guide will not expect full meals and hopefully they'll have your best interest in mind when it comes to reading the girl. Again I would like to reiterate what I've said about the girl being able to speak English as a must when starting this process. I've looked at some of the rates pf some of these guides and like I said they are very proud of their services. A good guide can actually save you money if he or she is not on the take at every corner. I know that Kuna and I had  kinda a different experience with the same guide so I'm not going to really recommend anyone. If you decide to go with someone then I'd go ahead and set major ground rules on day 1 with some flexibility about when his services would be needed and billing and so on and so forth. The right girl will not want anyone hanging around and she will look out for you as far as pricing on cabs and etc. The tricky part is finding the girl that would rather walk a mile in heels because it will save you $10 in cab fare.

[Ooooops]

I still maintain it tells a lot about the woman. If she orders all the most important things on the menu, without consulting me, it does speak volumes about her.

And if she will consult with you - oh, look, lobster!  I've never had one! - then what?