age differences- more info needed on younger fsu women

[topofthekey]

Actually I disagree that you are too young.

Sure, I'll travel anywhere as long as the CIA factbook says its ok for Americans to visit. As for a first trip over there- should be a nice vacation to check out Sofia and possibly drive out Varna. From just my research Bulgaria seemed like an interesting place (so did Tallinn, Estonia), so maybe later this year I should just pick one of those.

For whatever reason (likely just because Sofia is smaller than a lot of cities in Russia and Ukraine) Sofia doesn't seem to have a bunch of agencies.

I might use a personal site- but probably not on my first visit. I like the idea of something that would sort out the girls at some point though, but thats no big deal right now. But down the line when you are only visiting for a couple of weeks at a time I see why guys use personals or some kind of agency.

[WmGO]

1....nobody can judge if you are ready or not.


2.  Perhaps some of the old guys would advise against young WM going over to keep their competition away. 

quote]


***************************************************************

1.  Not judging, but would note that if a man is only 25 years old and he
is giving up on domestic women then something IS wrong with him.

2. I wouldn't assume that all men on RWD are old.  Some aren't.    And some have
enough sense to stay away from young (under 25) FSUW.  

 

[topofthekey]

quote]


***************************************************************

1.  Not judging, but would note that if a man is only 25 years old and he
is giving up on domestic women then something IS wrong with him.


 

I just dont get how you have enough information about me to say something is wrong with me- unless age discrimination is your thing- or that by expressing an interest in foreign women regardless if they are from bulgaria, ukraine- or if i want to visit hong kong, costa rica or anywhere else for that matter that I wasn't dating or seeing domestic women now.

I have no idea who you are, but I see no reason why any adult that is interested in meeting foreign women- shouldn't give it a shot (assuming he or she isn't already committed to someone else)

[Kuna]

I just dont get how you have enough information about me to say something is wrong with me- unless age discrimination is your thing- or that by expressing an interest in foreign women regardless if they are from bulgaria, ukraine- or if i want to visit hong kong, costa rica or anywhere else for that matter that I wasn't dating or seeing domestic women now.

I have no idea who you are, but I see no reason why any adult that is interested in meeting foreign women- shouldn't give it a shot (assuming he or she isn't already committed to someone else)

Top,

You're right... it's a strange question, but as always you must consider the source.

Member of RWD for 2 years... searching for a relationship for 2 years...  been to FSU 4 or more times...  perhaps there's a reason he feels men younger than him have something wrong with them and/or would fail???

You do have a challenge though with ladies younger than yourself because you may find (like many others before you have) that girls under 25 tend not to be serious.  Not all, but certainly many are just out for a good time.

Another thing to consider is locations...  If you're thinking Bulgaria, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia etc you might need to adjust your thinking and our advice to compensate for quite different local conditions.  Those countries are already going through tremendous social changes which haven't swept through Ukraine and Russia as much yet (or not to the same extent).

If you're considering trips there your dating experiences are likely to be much more like dating would be in Germany or France, rather than Ukraine or Russia.

You're 25, there's no rush, I'd suggest where ever you go you treat your trip very much like a holiday with some dating along the way.  If so don't use marriage agencies unless you're actually ready for marriage.  There's many other ways to meet girls.

Don't date too young (WOuld it be a bad thing if you found a spectacular 25 yr old instead of a "bubbly 22 yr old"), and make sure you can support the costs (both financial and time) because they are not small (Especially time after a lady arrives).

Kuna

[topofthekey]

Kuna-

with the age thing I was just being honest like the thread that was on the subject... younger women. Anyone my age or younger sure. Fluent english wouldn't be a requirement- but it would be ideal they she had some knowledge. at least moderate skills or a good base.

As for Tallinn my understanding is that a lot of those girls are actually of Nordic descent- which is awesome. And its fairly close on a short flight or long drive to St. Pete. I think that is another bonus. The down side is HIV/AIDS. They have an abnormal amount of infected persons in the country. My understanding is that it is drug related (mostly) and most prevalent in the northeastern part of the country (russians in estonia). I haven't considered Latvia or Lithuania, and I really haven't done a lot of research on Minsk, Belarus either.

[ScottinCrimea]

Kuna-

with the age thing I was just being honest like the thread that was on the subject... younger women. Anyone my age or younger sure. Fluent english wouldn't be a requirement- but it would be ideal they she had some knowledge. at least moderate skills or a good base.

As for Tallinn my understanding is that a lot of those girls are actually of Nordic descent- which is awesome. And its fairly close on a short flight or long drive to St. Pete. I think that is another bonus. The down side is HIV/AIDS. They have an abnormal amount of infected persons in the country. My understanding is that it is drug related (mostly) and most prevalent in the northeastern part of the country (russians in estonia). I haven't considered Latvia or Lithuania, and I really haven't done a lot of research on Minsk, Belarus either.

Don't get too caught up in the HIV thing.  although it is a concern, like it is anywhere, just practice safe sex like you would in the US and you don't need to worry.  You are right, the majority of AIDS cases in Russia (around 90%) are drug related and are due to a higher incidence of sharing needles.  According to one source I read, 70% of the AIDS cases in Russia are in Moscow and surroundings.

One thing I've noticed and others have pointed out to some extent is that you don't completely realize how different the various countries of the FSU are and that the women you will find and the dating strategies required can be totally different.  It's easy as a Westerner to lump them all together for various reasons, but their histories prior to, during and following the USSR are quite different, as are their cultures.

It's good that you're looking at the various countries, but you need to be sure that the reasons you might choose one country over another are valid reasons.

[Lily]

Well, I haven't looked into it myself, but if your Google something like Jobs in Russia it might point you in the right direction.   Or Manager Abroad programs.   Or something along the lines.   Try to look at Big 5 companies that have offices there and their vacancies.   It's an emerging market, so I'm sure you won't have problem finding something with the right set of skills.   Good luck!   

Agree with Ooooops, you also may want to read the classifields section at www.themoscowtimes.ru, or there are also a choice of positions advertised by Economist.

Western companies would gladly hire an American graduate for probably some junior positions. An MBA makes a difference. You have good chances to work with Russian girls about your age who are top educated and internationally versed.

To add to the thread, I would tell that the challenge with Russian girls about 23-25 are that in many cases they are under strong supervision and influence of their parents, especially mothers 

[Zmejka]

I was 22 when i was contacted by my now partner for 2 years (he was 24). My parents were suspicious about his intentions first, but now they're relaxed. We both got lucky to find each other, it's true. And i believe the author can get lucky the same way as we did!
There're plenty of opportunities and time. Good luck!

[msmoby_ru]

Kuna-


As for Tallinn ... The down side is HIV/AIDS. They have an abnormal amount of infected persons in the country. My understanding is that it is drug related (mostly) and most prevalent in the northeastern part of the country (russians in estonia). I haven't considered Latvia or Lithuania, and I really haven't done a lot of research on Minsk, Belarus either.

OMG

WHERE are you finding this info !!!!  You can be more certain of HIV / Drugs related problems and statistics in Estonia than FSU countries...sorry, if this offends, some.

Russia ( and many FSU states are REALLY downplaying this and so do "The" Ukraine. You are as safe as the risks you are prepared to take - and it is good you are well - aware of the "risks".


I've just watched a BBC documentary where one of our famous journalists criss-crosses Russia. I was SHOCKED to see/ hear a Russian Doctor ( who gives a lot of his spare time doing voluteer work with narcotic users - including exchanging used needles for new ) discuss the level of HIV/Aids related cases in..... IRKUTSK, of all places.. ! We "met" a lovely girl (22) called Sveta, who is HIV positive, who needed meds and  offers sex - at incredibly low prices - to fund the costs of ... MEDS... she is off narcotics - and she wasn't too fussy about the consequences for her clients ...

Now I now this can be true of ANY city FSU or NA, Eur, whatever..but the Doctor reckoned that HIV could be as high as 25-30% in unders 30's in the city... :-o



   

[topofthekey]

OMG
WHERE are you finding this info !!!!  You can be more certain of HIV / Drugs related problems and statistics in Estonia than FSU countries...sorry, if this offends, some.

Sorry man- first I was really comparing and contrasting Bulgaria and Estonia. And I can provide some links to articles- and I don't doubt anything you are saying. Maybe Estonia is just more open and honest about the problem then Ukraine or Russia. I'll post some articles just so you know I'm not making it up and Estonia does have a real problem- greater than Bulgaria for example. However, being safe and protecting yourself is of course the best way to handle the situation no matter what country you are in.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/21/aids.nickpatonwalsh
http://ijsa.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/18/6/389
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE1DC163DF936A25751C0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

[topofthekey]

I was 22 when i was contacted by my now partner for 2 years (he was 24). My parents were suspicious about his intentions first, but now they're relaxed. We both got lucky to find each other, it's true. And i believe the author can get lucky the same way as we did!
There're plenty of opportunities and time. Good luck!

first off, congrats. secondly i'm guessing more younger guys would probably travel to the FSU but i see the challenges especially if they just entered the workforce and had student loans.

The summer would be a nice time to travel I would suspect- warmer- which would be awesome- but I myself am cramming in the rest of my graduate classes this summer

Lily-

I did a little research and it does look like companies in Kiev and Moscow are looking for american graduates. Very interesting, and I'll have to look more into it.

[msmoby_ru]

Sorry man- first I was really comparing and contrasting Bulgaria and Estonia. And I can provide some links to articles- and I don't doubt anything you are saying. Maybe Estonia is just more open and honest about the problem then Ukraine or Russia. I'll post some articles just so you know I'm not making it up and Estonia does have a real problem- greater than Bulgaria for example. However, being safe and protecting yourself is of course the best way to handle the situation no matter what country you are in.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/21/aids.nickpatonwalsh
http://ijsa.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/18/6/389
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE1DC163DF936A25751C0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Hi TOTK

and thanks for posting the data.

However, I'm STILL saying that FSU states whether within the EU or not , have been fibbing about the scale of their problems - Bulgaria has only just joined the EU, and is the subject of plenty of censure re misreporting on government finances, so why should we believe their stats on drugs.. I work with Bulgarians and they'd mostly tell you the same...

Estonia - like Lativia and to a lessor extent Lithuania ( who allowed Russians who wanted to stay after the withdrawal to become full citizens - but had lessor numbers involved as a %age ) have "issues" with Russian speakers and they often get blamed for everything bad ... You mustn't forget that Russians were regarded as "occupiers" / liberators who forgot to go home after the end of WWII / Gt Patriotic war - I still don't understand how the EU allowed Latvia and Estonia to join while they allow Russian speakers to pay taxes - but can't vote have citizenship.

Lies, dam lies and statistics..

[djfourmonie]

 Joining the EU means very little in terms of how the people are treated in the near future. Watch LINK TV and DW, its quite EYE OPENING.

 ToTK (Great screen name btw)

 Don't listen to WmGo, he suggested as a Black Man I go to North Africa because my chances with FSU women were slim and none (in his estimation). Clearly he doesn't venture beyond his own circle of friends very much (which more than likely don't include African-Americans) and makes some outlandish suggestions based on what he saw or because the women he has talked too either don't find Denzel Washington, 50 Cent or Tyson Beckford attractive. Nevermind I know a Ukrainian girl with 50 Cent as wallpaper on her desktop. Nevermind few hundred that are members of the web portal Black Planet.

 But I digress.

 You should not fear for your safety if you travel internationally. If you do, your defeated, say home! Be smart, ask alot of questions. If you can find somebody local to where your staying to befriend, do it. If you find a girl that your interested in seeing and she's interested in having you visit, she will see to all your needs.

 FYI but the majority of people in Europe like Americans just fine, they don't like Dubya! Don't confuse the two, I seldom found myself answering for things like the Iraq War, unless I brought it up and of course I think its a bad idea, "Loose Change" is the truth, Rupert Murdock is a liar (he said we would get $40 a barrel Oil from Iraq) and live in a new Gilded Age.

 If you have or about to get your MBA, I highly suggest looking into working overseas. It could be the best time of your life and that's no lie. You'll find that being single and American is fairly desirable by women anywhere you go.

 Just be smart; I met a Ukrainian woman online and it didn't cost me hundreds of dollars to do so and only cost me $286 to fly from Germany to Kiev at the last minute (and $19.95 to join Lucky Lovers)

 Got any questions, shoot me a PM...



 

[Misha]

As for Tallinn my understanding is that a lot of those girls are actually of Nordic descent- which is awesome. And its fairly close on a short flight or long drive to St. Pete.

Well, you have two different populations. You have the ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers in Estonia (1/3 of the population give-or-take) and the ethnic Estonians. The ethnic Estonians are a Finno-Ugrian population and speak a language related to the Finnish language and other languages in Russia. This is a different language family than the languages of the other Scandinavian countries which are Indo-European languages. There is (was?) an overnight train from Tallinn to both St. Pete and Moscow in the past. But, haven't been to Estonia in over a decade so don't know whether this is still true.