FSU misconception

[Son of Clyde]

I am wondering if there are misconceptions that everything in the US is within easy reach we have easy access to everything.

She wants many things but no more than any other woman and she may think I can write a check or put everything on a credit card and make them happy.

In Russia and Ukraine are there credit cards? Do people purchase items by cash only?

She knew I had an above average income and lived in an apartment, but she was utterly shocked to see I had only a few dishes (many had been accidentally broken by me). I was actually waiting for her arrival to find kitchen items she would like. She was appalled to find that the landlords let the front and back porches go to hell but paid thousands of dollars to install siding.

 
I don't understand guys who have everything waiting for their woman when she has not had input as to what they have purchased. Iryna has her own style and it is definitely not the same as mine.

Like I said before, I will get them everything they want and need, but not next week. I think the RW idea of a budget is different from the AM idea of a budget. I may see my accountant and bring her along so he can explain how things work in the US as far as spending goes.

[KenC]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

I am wondering if there are misconceptions that everything in the US is within easy reach we have easy access to everything.
She wants many things but no more than any other woman and she may think I can write a check or put everything on a credit card and make them happy.

Of course they expect a lot more than they had back home.  Why else would they give up everything they ever had or knew?  You see the deal works like this: He gets a wife younger, prettier, probably better educated and with a different attitude towards men in general.  She gets a husband that provides a significantly better lifestyle.

In Russia and Ukraine are there credit cards? Do people purchase items by cash only?

They are starting to use credit in Russia, but it is in it's infancy.

She knew I had an above average income and lived in an apartment, but she was utterly shocked to see I had only a few dishes (many had been accidentally broken by me). I was actually waiting for her arrival to find kitchen items she would like. She was appalled to find that the landlords let the front and back porches go to hell but paid thousands of dollars to install siding.

I can understand her disappointment.  You have a funny way of presenting the facts.  On one hand you proudly state that you are an above average wage earner, but yet you live in a dump.  Huh?  I don't buy your earlier excuse that Baltimore is an expensive city either.  There are many many more expensive cities than Baltimore.  Try San Diego where the average home price is $550K.

 
I don't understand guys who have everything waiting for their woman when she has not had input as to what they have purchased. Iryna has her own style and it is definitely not the same as mine.

And I don't understand how a man of your age (that is an above average wage earner) doesn't have a houshold with at least the basic necessities of life ie. furniture, dishes, cooking utinsels, sheets ect.  For Christ's sake, Clyde, your not a college graduate just setting up a household, you're a middle aged man that has worked his whole life and you don't have proper dishes?

Like I said before, I will get them everything they want and need, but not next week. I think the RW idea of a budget is different from the AM idea of a budget. I may see my accountant and bring her along so he can explain how things work in the US as far as spending goes.

I am sure her fears (rightfully so IMO) are that if you have failed to accumilate even the basic household items in 40 some years, how is that going to change in the future?  The more you write here, the more I think it is you that has to prove your worth within the 90 days.

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

Deleted

[PeeWee]

To add to it. She had a certain expectation of what she thought America was like and how she thought your home looked. Either her mental image of these were higher or lower than what she found to be reality. The apartment might be lower than what her mental images were.

I was suprised by the condition of my lady's apartment building but overly impressed with how she had decorated her flat. I said nothing to her about the run down condition of the building but much about how warm and cozy her flat was. \

What you are used to she is not yet used to. You may find yourself moving to a new home, like my friend in Belgium did when his RW told him that she would not live there.

 

PeeeWee

[Todd]

I'm not sure if this advice would be helpful for others, but I actually took a picture or two of my apartment prior to Kate's arrival.  She KNEW what she was getting into, which I think helps.  I can certainly empathize with high real estate prices; the Harvard Sq. area in Cambridge is roughly $500 k for a 2 bed room condo. 

[Photo Guy]

'L' requested photos of my condo and car. I sent them.

[ConnerVT]

I had made a video that included a walk through tour of our home and the neighborhood; a drive into the city; city parks, Lake Champlain, downtown B'town VT and pedestrian mall; and inside a local supermarket and shopping mall.

In addition, in preperation for her K-1 interview, she had 3 years of my tax returns (self-employed for some time), bank and retirement statements, HUD-1 statement from the recent purchase of our home, paycheck stubs and contract from my current employer, and other financial documents.  And she's an accountant.

Full disclosure.  :cool:

[Elen]

for me it would be better ( and more clear for everybody from FSU) just to tell how much you can spend in month. ( Sum per year are not clear for FSU people)  If you say her I can spend 2000$ she would not waste 800$ from that sum at sheets

Yes we have now credit cards mostly those which we recive our salaries at. But there are also those ones which banks offer you with some sum you should pay % for. But in majority people use them only for buying some "expencive" goods as everybody does understand that you must return what you have took from bank and with %s

As for household things ( a lack of them) I would not be surprised with that - rather typical for bachelor:D

[Jet]

for me it would be better ( and more clear for everybody from FSU) just to tell how much you can spend in month. ( Sum per year are not clear for FSU people)  If you say her I can spend 2000$ she would not waste 800$ from that sum at sheets

 

This is pretty similar to how I approached it. Rather than going through Gross and net, finance rates on the vehicle, shop rent, etc. I gave her the percentage of money left after the bills were paid. It worked well for us, she wasn't shocked on arrival .

There was plenty of time to discuss the rest later. Lil also had copies of my tax stuff from the time we filed for the visa which gave her 10 months to inspect it .

[Turboguy]

I have a feeling for a lot of the gals even though they have this info it is a total mystery to them.   I am sure some of the gals with an accounting background understand more.   Luda seemed to have no idea what a tax return is and she asked me about the statement from my stockbroker but when I tried to explain stocks and the thory and practice I might as well have been explaining the theory of relativity.

On one of my earlier trips she spotted the issue of Money magazine I brought for reading material and asked if she could have it and said she was going to read it cover to cover but I doubt that she did or understood anything.

Luda did ask me one time what my income was and asked how that compared to others here but I really think she is totally in a fog about anything financial and I think a lot of the gals are the same.  Luda does seem to get upset when she finds I own something she does not know about but I almost feel she would like me to own less.    I don't think it is ever a serious problem but there are some propties I own she does not know about.   Well, I will try my best to unravel the mysteries for her, but slowly.

 

[PeeWee]

for me it would be better ( and more clear for everybody from FSU) just to tell how much you can spend in month. ( Sum per year are not clear for FSU people)  If you say her I can spend 2000$ she would not waste 800$ from that sum at sheets

Yes we have now credit cards mostly those which we recive our salaries at. But there are also those ones which banks offer you with some sum you should pay % for. But in majority people use them only for buying some "expencive" goods as everybody does understand that you must return what you have took from bank and with %s

As for household things ( a lack of them) I would not be surprised with that - rather typical for bachelor:D

And my friend just flat out asked me, "How much money will you give to me each month?" Later she told me that she wanted to have her own money and that she wanted to work for it. When it comes time for the finance discussion I'll explain to my idea of me paying for everything to do with the house, food, medical care, school. She can pay for her car, gas, her clothes and her daughters clothes. I think it is a good idea but I am not Russian and my idea may be totally wrong. We will see.

Regarding the credit cards. My friend has 3 or 4 of them, all issued by different banks in Moscow.

 

PeeWee

 

[Shadow]

The misconception is not in the ability of people from the FSU to spend money, but in the value of money itself.

FSU countries are a cash-based economy. Most people can not afford to pay back credit on their salaries, but do manage to save a little. However saving money is not seen as a usefult thing. The reason is simple. Property will not lose value, gold and jewelery will not lose value. But money will.

Anyone in the FSU can remember more than one point in time when money in the bank or stashed away became almost worthless over night. As a result they are very sceptical about the value of savings. Instead they will spend the money until the limit, then save up for something needed and buy it once the savings are enough.

This is how the people manage to buy new PC's, expensive clothes and winter coats. It is also the reason why children need to support their parents financially when they become pensioners.

When you transfer a woman who is used to this kind of economy to the USA or a West-European country, you will see the trademarks often described.

- Shopping until all credit limits are maxed: the concept of money not having value causes this. If they are not explaine the concept of having a credit limit they expect to be able to spend as long as the ATM (bank or male) produces cash.

- buying high quality expensive goods : The reasoning is that expensive goods will be of high quality and last longer. Custom is not to buy a thing every week, but to buy a few that will last for years.

Understanding that the risk of money becoming worthless is low, credit is for emergencies and savings are for retirement will come slowly. Until it is there, just tell how long it will take to save enough to buy such things.

[Turboguy]

Shadow,   I think that was one of the best posts on the subject I have seen.  That makes a lot of sence and I think a lot of the situations people run into are in the different perspectives.   That helps clear up a mystery for me.

[KenC]

Shadow,

I agree with Turbo.  That was a very good explanation.  It took me quite a while to recognize the patterns you described, but I never knew the reasons behind them.  Where was this post 6 years ago?

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

Shadow, that post should be placed on all the boards for newbies and naive spenders like me. Can you have it translated to Russian? I want my fiance and son to read it too.

[PeeWee]

The misconception is not in the ability of people from the FSU to spend money, but in the value of money itself.

FSU countries are a cash-based economy. Most people can not afford to pay back credit on their salaries, but do manage to save a little. However saving money is not seen as a usefult thing. The reason is simple. Property will not lose value, gold and jewelery will not lose value. But money will.

Anyone in the FSU can remember more than one point in time when money in the bank or stashed away became almost worthless over night. As a result they are very sceptical about the value of savings. Instead they will spend the money until the limit, then save up for something needed and buy it once the savings are enough.

This is how the people manage to buy new PC's, expensive clothes and winter coats. It is also the reason why children need to support their parents financially when they become pensioners.

When you transfer a woman who is used to this kind of economy to the USA or a West-European country, you will see the trademarks often described.

- Shopping until all credit limits are maxed: the concept of money not having value causes this. If they are not explaine the concept of having a credit limit they expect to be able to spend as long as the ATM (bank or male) produces cash.

- buying high quality expensive goods : The reasoning is that expensive goods will be of high quality and last longer. Custom is not to buy a thing every week, but to buy a few that will last for years.

Understanding that the risk of money becoming worthless is low, credit is for emergencies and savings are for retirement will come slowly. Until it is there, just tell how long it will take to save enough to buy such things.

I do recall my friend telling me that she converts a portion of her money to Euros and US dollars. Her money is kept in her home, hidden somewhere. I like the non credit system anyway. We, as Americans, are far too dependent on credit. I was surprise the other day to hear her tell me that she was going to buy a new car, her's is shot. She was going to get a loan to buy it  When she first talked of it I had assumed she would pay cash for it.

Regarding your comment about the buying of items that will last for years reminds me of Clyde's comment about the sheets. But my son is the same way about spending and he is as American as anyone.

PeeWee

[KenC]

Clyde,

This is where you miss the mark IMO.  It isn't as easy as having someone else translate a post for you and you hand it to your fiancee and her son.  PRESTO CHANGO problem solved!  It just isn't that easy.  Now that you know the roots of the problem, it is up to YOU to solve it.  You cannot possibly think that she will grasp and understand what Shadow wrote.  I won't even get into the idea of a 14 year old understanding it.  Even Shadow warns:

Understanding that the risk of money becoming worthless is low, credit is for emergencies and savings are for retirement will come slowly. Until it is there, just tell how long it will take to save enough to buy such things.
I gave you an idea about using a pie chart in another thread, but maybe even that is too complicated and abstract for your situation.  A better idea might be to lay out the cash on the kitchen table and tell your fiancee (not the son) that this is how much money the two of you have to spend for the week.  When it is gone, it's gone and you will get the same amount when you next get paid.  In this conversation, you need to be explicit as to what expenses have to come out of the money ie. food, entertainment, new clothes ect.  If you want to educate her on financial responsibilties, you have to lay out the ground rules in a very specific manner.  Not in theory or abstract terms.

KenC

[Elen]

As for me I CAN"T see a connection between Russian un-trust in banks with somebody's un-ability to cut her appetit in shops. And it's odd to read that Russian can't save money - we with our salalries and inflation can do that better than you otherwise we would have no one "expensive" thing at home as our salaries don't allow to do that "at once" . As for spending under limits then if you gain 200 $ per month then trust me you would spend ALL as well. ( and NOT because you would not trust banks )

A problem is in some other place:?

May be she STILL does not know limits as sombody STILL has not informed her?

As for translation then.... nobody asked me so ....<shrug> 


 

- buying high quality expensive goods : The reasoning is that expensive goods will be of high quality and last longer. Custom is not to buy a thing every week, but to buy a few that will last for years.

Of course we do have here a saying "We are not rich enough to allow ourselves to buy sheap things" BUT in cases with things which are expencive "over all resonalble meas" it's rather a case for other saying  "From mud into queens"

 

 


 

[KenC]

 


 

[Elen]

I'm hopless in understanding how somebody who had to live here at Russian salary could lost mind completely and give up to "feelings" about such thing like money. ( especially if we are speaking not about girl who has never really ruled money for support her family but about woman with 14 years old kid)

Giving a credit to Clyde's wife I still sure that's because he doesn't open all cards about his finances ( don't know why.:?)
PS there is no need to understand ALL processes with stocks, funds and banks. I't enough to say how much garanteed FREE money you have per month .

 

[Shadow]

And it's odd to read that Russian can't save money - we with our salalries and inflation can do that better than you otherwise we would have no one "expensive" thing at home as our salaries don't allow to do that "at once" .

Elen, this is exactly what I wrote.

Savings mean saving money not to buy something nice, but to keep the money around for years until you are old and have less income. Many people here save money until they die, at which point their children will save more and repeat the process, or spend it and have a good time;)

I am sure that once a Russian woman understand the concept she will be able to save more money than her husband ever did when he was a bachelor.

As for spending under limits then if you gain 200 $ per month then trust me you would spend ALL as well.

Very true. But if you are used to spending all and suddenly come in a situation where you can spend a lot more, it will take some time (and fulfillment of wishes) until you stop spending all.

[Elen]

Savings mean saving money not to buy something nice, but to keep the money around for years until you are old and have less income. Many people here save money until they die, at which point their children will save more and repeat the process

 Yes I know We do watch cartoons about Scrudge Mc Duck here:P

Very true. But if you are used to spending all and suddenly come in a situation where you can spend a lot more, it will take some time (and fulfillment of wishes) until you stop spending all 

True but not for everybody from FSU I'm afraid that I would die about starvation in your supermarkets ( full with perfects american hambugres )  because each time I try to buy something I would "transfer" a price into my salary here and my hands would be just paralyzed:?

 

[Michelangelo]

Sounds to me like that it would be a good idea to start your girl in the USA on cash, which she understands.  Gradually, introduce her to credit...

[ConnerVT]

Elen, food for thought:  It is easy to spend other people's money.  People only save money they feel is their own.

[Son of Clyde]

Elen, food for thought:  It is easy to spend other people's money.  People only save money they feel is their own.

Conner, I am going to make a copy of this statement and put it where it is always in full view. It is for me to read every day.

I am contemplating taking her with me to see my CPA who is very good at explaining these things.