First Trip to Kiev!

[TW1970]

Well, I am finally here! I arrived last friday and so far things are going great. The apartment I am staying in is about a 7 minute walk to Khreschatyk street. Now, for my minority perspective:

No problems at the airport or in the metro. A few folks look but nothing out of the ordinary. I consider myself to be a well seasoned traveler but it is really easy to get lost in the metro if you do not pay attention. With my knowledge of Russian nearly non-existant, I found paying attention to landmarks (designs on the walls) and watching the monitor in the subway car to be the best way to navigate it. Each car has a monitor near the ceiling and it spells out the stop (Russian of course) as the train arrives.

The shopping market is interesting. The I did not know there was so many types of sardines. At least I think that's what they are based on the photos on the cans. Also I saw something that looked like birds eggs. I will have to take a photo and post it here later. The cashier was rude to me and charged me 1 greivna (sp) for a bag and did not bag my food. But then I watched and she did this to Ukrainians too so maybe that is just her.

I have seen about 3 Black people each day on the streets. Generally I would say they are from East Africa although I did see one USA brother with a Ukrainian girl holding hands. I've met the lady I worked with in the USA and a few of her friends. So far things are cool but Anna (girl I worked with) clearly wants more than a platonic relationship. Anyway, I'll report more later.

[groovlstk]

The cashier was rude to me and charged me 1 greivna (sp) for a bag and did not bag my food. But then I watched and she did this to Ukrainians too so maybe that is just her.

This is perfectly normal, you'll notice that many local people bring their own bags to avoid this.

Glad to hear your trip is going well, keep us posted!

[dneid]

The shopping market is interesting. The I did not know there was so many types of sardines. At least I think that's what they are based on the photos on the cans. Also I saw something that looked like birds eggs. I will have to take a photo and post it here later. The cashier was rude to me and charged me 1 greivna (sp) for a bag and did not bag my food. But then I watched and she did this to Ukrainians too so maybe that is just her.

Yeah, I had similar experiences when in Kiev, less so in Nikolaev.  Pavel was a huge help for things like this when I was in Kiev.  My first couple of trips to the store were with Pavel.  I did 2 more without him and had the same cashier.  She was nicer on those trips though.  I guess she understood I was a clueless Amerikanski.

[BillyB]

Tw, sounds good and hopefully you don't have any bad experiences. Some of us know you're half black and of course we're curious on how Ukrianians will treat you. Looking forward to hearing your experience.

[BC]

Darn.. and I thought TW was half white.. LOL

Glass half full or half empty, either way, have a great time TW.

Enjoy!

[Kuna]

Yeah, I had similar experiences when in Kiev, less so in Nikolaev.  Pavel was a huge help for things like this when I was in Kiev.  My first couple of trips to the store were with Pavel.  I did 2 more without him and had the same cashier.  She was nicer on those trips though.  I guess she understood I was a clueless Amerikanski.

Really??? He took you food shopping?  He refused to help me out with food but he did stand on the footpath outside of the apartment and point down the street explaining I should turn right at O'briens, then "Right or left, I cannot remember, but there is a market somewhere on that street."

 

Must be varying levels of service or something... or maybe he doesn't like going out in winter.   




TW,

Drink up every moment while you're in Kiev because your first trip will be in your memory forever, and it sounds like it might be for good reason.   

Being charged for plastic bags is standard, as is rude service... don't worry, it annoys Ukrainians as much as it annoys us.

Good work on getting around on the Metro...  beats the hell out of private car and taxis because it let's you mix with the locals!

Thanks for the update, we'll look forward to hearing more.

Kuna

[myrddin]

TW,

Drink up every moment while you're in Kiev because your first trip will be in your memory forever

That cannot be said enough!

Thanks for sharing, TW, and don't let any of the little stuff get to you.

I hope things go well with your friend.   

[BillyB]

Darn.. and I thought TW was half white.. LOL

Yeah TW, let us know if anyone in Ukraine bothers you because of your white heritage too.

[Ooooops]

The cashier was rude to me and charged me 1 greivna (sp) for a bag and did not bag my food. But then I watched and she did this to Ukrainians too so maybe that is just her.

Welcome to the "green country"!   Excessive use of plastic in totally unnecessary.    "Avos'ka" goes a long way!      (actually that's what I'm doing now in HK - carry a burlap bag with me when I go grocery  shopping to reduce the waste) 

[dneid]

Really??? He took you food shopping?  He refused to help me out with food but he did stand on the footpath outside of the apartment and point down the street explaining I should turn right at O'briens, then "Right or left, I cannot remember, but there is a market somewhere on that street."

Hey, Kuna,
I know you had a bed experience with Pavel.  All I can say is Pavel was wonderful with me.  If I needed to look for something, we would tear Kiev apart looking for it.  In fact, I thought I needed a power adapter for my MAC Book.  We walked all over the central part of Kiev looking for one.  Pavel finally recalled a store that sold Apples and we went there to find out that the supply I have is a "world supply".  It was during that hunt that we would up in the middle of the NATO protest in Independence Square.  What an experience!
I guess the old saying YMMV is true.  I can tell you that I will use Pavel services again.

[SANDRO43]

Hey, Kuna, I know you had a bed experience with Pavel.

Finally we know the real reason behind Kuna's animosity towards Pavel .

[Kuna]

Finally we know the real reason behind Kuna's animosity towards Pavel .

Sandro,

I almost feel offended Pavel didn't proposition me but if that's the way he keeps his other customers happy I'm glad I'm not "in the club".

[GreginGa]

Be careful in the evenings. I read somewhere a few weeks ago that there have been problems with locals jumping on folks of a different color. Just stay on the main streets and dont stay out too late or get drunk at the bar and try and stumble to your apartment. Tell Pavel I said hello and I'll see him in Sept,but for him not to worry about my airport pickup. So how many days are you going to be in Kiev? What are your plans? The Black Sea would be nice if you had a few extra days to kill,but that train ride is a MOFO.

[TW1970]

Tw, sounds good and hopefully you don't have any bad experiences. Some of us know you're half black and of course we're curious on how Ukrianians will treat you. Looking forward to hearing your experience.

Thanks Billy B! Ok, Here's another quick update:

Day 8 in Kiev- Well today was the first time anyone said something derogative in my direction! I was in Mydon? (sp) square right near the McDonalds and these two big drunk dudes were sitting on the side of the walkway and one of them yelled something at me when I walked by. Whatever it was probably wasn't good because a few folks turned and looked to see what my reaction would be but I kept walking and there wasn't any incident. 

Interesting to know that I can pay after I use the Internet but I must pay before I make a telephone call. Maybe folks weren't paying at the telephone place. It's interesting because all the other countries I have visited, you can pay for your international call After you hang up the phone. Also, a Ukrainian lady sitting next to me chirped something to me, pointed at her bags, got up and left them there when she went to the rest room. I realized at that point she had asked me to watch them for her so maybe I'm looking more Ukrainian, lol!

The Bessarabskaya market near Khreshatyk is awesome! Lots of fresh fruit, etc. The metro is getting easier to navigate but I still don't use it after 10pm.

Today I also visited 2 agencies so I'll report on them next time.

[kievstar]

I think Kiev is open to different races.  I went to the Lenny Kravitz concert there last week and Lenny had no problems.  Lenny even went into the crowd several times up to 5 minutes each time with really no security.  Plus many different races in the crowd.

That being said there were 5 foreigners killed in Kiev two weeks ago included one African American. Paul McCartney concert brought a lot of bad dudes to Kiev from the villages around Ukraine.  Thankfully it rained during the concert to reduce the amount of crime.  Free concerts are never a good idea.

Crime is really rising this year.  But still a safe city if your careful once it gets dark.  Just like any big city in the World.

[TW1970]

Crime is really rising this year.  But still a safe city if your careful once it gets dark.  Just like any big city in the World.

Funny you should mention this because yesterday a buddy of mine who is here with me got robbed in a scam. Here's what happened: We were at the market and I decided to return to the apt alone. About 30 minutes later, he showed up and told me that as he was walking up the street, a man dropped his wallet but kept walking. My friend picked it up and told the guy and then another man suddenly showed up. This man flashed some random ID and told my friend he wanted to see what he had in his pockets. In the confusion, they managed to steal his Visa card. Luckily he called it in and only one charge of about $80 had gone through.

As for me, two teenagers stopped me on the street yesterday and one asked if he could take a picture with me. Strange. I caught a cold about 4 days ago so I'm trying to recover from that too. 

[GreginGa]

Funny you should mention this because yesterday a buddy of mine who is here with me got robbed in a scam. Here's what happened: We were at the market and I decided to return to the apt alone. About 30 minutes later, he showed up and told me that as he was walking up the street, a man dropped his wallet but kept walking. My friend picked it up and told the guy and then another man suddenly showed up. This man flashed some random ID and told my friend he wanted to see what he had in his pockets. In the confusion, they managed to steal his Visa card. Luckily he called it in and only one charge of about $80 had gone through.

As for me, two teenagers stopped me on the street yesterday and one asked if he could take a picture with me. Strange. I caught a cold about 4 days ago so I'm trying to recover from that too. 

You know I've always hear of this happening,but it's never happened to me. I remember not long after my wife and I were dating,we were down near the river in the Podol district. You should check it out. Anyways I found a $200 grivna bill on the floor of a store. My wife absolutely freaked and told me to leave it there. I'm like no way in hell,thats like almost $50. I took the money and she finally calmed down the next day when we used it to eat pizza.

[TW1970]

Well after 18 days, I am finally back home in the USA. I’ll put my observations/experiences in a few sections.

Agencies/Dating

I actually did visit 3 agencies in Kiev and here are my observations/experiences.

1)   Kiev Connections- www.kievconnections.com
This agency is run by an American and has a great staff to assist you with translations, etc. I even took an excellent tour of Kiev with one of the translators and paid only $10 an hour. In this agency I choose 4 women that I wanted to meet at a rate of $50 per introduction. The first girl was out of the city on vacation, the second was not interested in me, and the last 2 agreed to meet me. I met one lady (Marina), who spoke some English and was 28 years old. In her profile she said she didn’t smoke but on our date, she almost went through a whole pack of cigarettes. I know they are cheap (about $1.50 a pack but still.) Also, I like to drink but I think this lady was an alcoholic because she had 6 Mojitos in about 4 hours. Needless to say I did not ask her on a second date despite the fact she seemed quite interested in me.

The next lady (Yana) was 24, spoke perfect English and seemed at first to be a good fit. However, some of the assistants at the office told me that she has been going on several dates each week for over 1 year. Thought she might be a serial dater but still went through with my date. I met her and we hit it off and agreed on a second date. But in her profile she states that her dates must pay her $40 for taxi fare since she lives outside the city. Hmm…. I forgot to read the fine print. Anyway I paid her the money and we met again after a few days. Unfortunately this time she caught an attitude, ate an expensive dinner, took another $40 for cab fare and left. I told the assistants/translators in the office and all three of them shook their heads from left to right in unison, like a chorus line. Well, live and learn.

2)   DaisyBride Marriage Agency- www.daisybride.com
This agency is run by a Ukrainian lady and is in a small 2-room office next to the Mcdonald’s in Independence Square. Dates cost $60 each. I choose 2 ladies from this agency but 1 was not available and the other was not interested to meet me.

3)   UkrainianWifeNow- www.UkrainianWifeNow.com
I initially met a Ukrainian lady Alyona who spoke good English and works for the agency. She told me that 3 dates cost $120 or $40 each. Not bad but as I was talking with her, another Ukrainian guy came in the office and said some of the girls in the agency are interested in just casual dates and others for marriage. Great, but neither of them could tell me which ones. I didn’t have a good feeling about this, so I didn’t choose any women from this agency.

Overall, the best feature of all the agencies is that they do not take your $ unless the lady is interested in meeting you. I was able to spend some time with a translator from one of the offices and she had an interesting perspective on the whole matchmaking process. She was very intelligent, spoke 4 or 5 languages and whenever we hung out, I could tell there was definitely a connection between us. When I would come into the office, she would always perk up and quickly ask me if she could get me anything and if I needed anyone to show me around the city. But she was very young (let’s just say under 20) and the whole thing reminded me of the relationship between Natalie Portman and Jean Reno from the movie, The Professional. Clearly wise beyond her years but nevertheless, still a child. I told her she should write a book about her experiences working in a dating agency and this was her reply more or less:

“The main idea of MY book would be revealing all the negatives of American private and social life and about how you guys are extremely lonely.... I’m not accusing you personally of that, I don't think you have very much in common with our average clients, I’m talking in general. The work in the agency so far has shown me that if one's unhappy in his own country, going to another country will not make him happier, because happiness is inside you, not around you, and that even if you guys have democracy, better political organization and your retirement payments are higher, people are the same everywhere, and loneliness is the same everywhere....”

After my initial post on here, I expected quite a few women would not be interested in dating interracially. I found quite the opposite to be the case. While there were some that were not interested, there were nearly as equal a number whom were curious and wanted to know more about me. But as for dating agencies, my thoughts are mixed. I think they are a good place to start but I wouldn’t place much stock into them in terms of a long investment. Personal connections are invaluable especially in a foreign country and if you find a good translator/agency assistant hopefully she can direct you to a few good ladies or at least steer you away from the bad ones. Ex. She might have a few single girlfriends. 

General Observations

Enough cannot be said about the necessity to know some Russian. Without a basic understanding of key Russian phases, your interactions will probably consist mostly of pantomiming and smiles. Which is fine if you want your trip to be one long Charades game. I figured I would be ok but what I did not factor in was that everything is written in the Cyrillic alphabet and even in Kiev, not that many people speak English. Oh sure you can ask someone for directions as I did several times but all they do is bombard you with more Russian (might be Ukrainian but I could not tell) and that does you no good in terms of getting you towards your destination. I thought I had figured out a system for navigating the metro by looking at the monitor in each car for the stop. But after 3 days, I could not find any cars with the monitor in them so I was SOL and had to regroup.   

Kiev is expensive for housing: apartments or hotels. For some reason, the buttons on the phones do not work when you try to push them when you are on a call. Ex. You dial a number to the USA and when you are connected, you try to press the buttons to check your voice mail. I never seemed to get them to work and nobody could tell me how to make them work either.

Often ATMS will not give you cash because USA banks will block transactions assuming there is fraud. So you have to constantly call your bank to verify and get the security department to release the block on the account. I would suggest just taking enough in cash, hiding it, and exchanging some $$ when you need it.

Almost all women I met smoked cigarettes. Not one but several in an hour. So that was a shock to me.

A Minority perspective

Other than 1 incident that I mentioned in an early post, I never felt threatened nor was harassed. Ok, on one date in a restaurant a guy sitting with some buddies at a table in front me made a comment in Ukrainian, “Why do foreigners come to our country to take our women?” My date spoke some English and told me what he said and to ignore him. But I was feeling very generous so I bought the table a round of shots of Ukrainian Vodka. In retrospect that was probably like adding gasoline to put out a fire but I managed to escape unharmed.

Occasionally some folks would look at me, as I was ridding the metro or walking around but nothing that made me feel too uncomfortable. Not like being in India or Africa where kids would follow you around the streets. I did spend much of my time though in about a 7-mile radius of Khreschatyk st. I think if I had traveled by train outside the city into the countryside, my experience might be significantly different because several Ukrainian women I met told me this (i.e. people are less wealthy and not as accepting of foreigners or people of darker skin).

One time I did see a little Mulatto girl with her mother playing the violin on the street for money. My parents made me take cello lessons when I was her age so I could empathize with her situation (plus she was mixed race like me too). Anyway, I tried talk with her mother who couldn’t understand me but luckily someone walked by who spoke English and offered to translate. I think her father was from some country in East Africa.

I think Black Americans or mixed race guys could do ok in Kiev but there are a lot of things to prepare for and consider. My flight from NYC was at least 9 hours and not cheap (plus the price of oil is rising every day). Hotels and apartments are not cheap in Kiev and without a basic understanding of Russian, a translator or guide would be invaluable.

[dneid]

Finally we know the real reason behind Kuna's animosity towards Pavel .

Oh, shite!  Leave it to you Sandro to find that one.  I have never claimed nor will I ever claim to a decent typist.

[Shadow]

You have got a lot to learn about dating RW I guess. I hope your trip was intended to 'get your feet wet', and met your expectations.
Perhaps next time you should try to build up some knowledge of the woman you are going to meet, that might help you in meeting.

6 mojitos in 4 hours is not near the standard of an alcoholic in Ukraine or Russia, it is moderate drinking when having fun.
Regarding the woman with the $40 cab fare lets just say you might have just as well ordered a prostitute...it would have been fun to tell her you would accompany her to see where she lives.

[TW1970]

You have got a lot to learn about dating RW I guess. I hope your trip was intended to 'get your feet wet', and met your expectations.
Perhaps next time you should try to build up some knowledge of the woman you are going to meet, that might help you in meeting.
 

My first trip to Kiev far definitely met my expectations and then some. I was expected a lot of doom and gloom (as predicted by some folks on here) but it was not that bad at all. Corresponding with ladies before traveling is fine but nothing beats meeting them in-person.

As for the RW, I'm going to stick with Ukraine.

[Gator]

TW,

I liked your reporting style.

You did okay, and I am glad you are were not overzealous about finding a wife.

The 20-yo terp is indeed wise.  I don't know your age; however, is she too young for you?

I second Shadow's comments about drinking alcohol.  Some of these women drink little, what we would call "social" drinking.  Others have a huge thirst and capacity, yet consider it "social" drinking.  According to my RW wife (who loves her mojitos and would drink 6 in two hours if they are made in the Cuban style with lots of crushed mint), "social" drinking is defined as anything other than drinking alone, regardless of the quantity consumed.

Cigarettes too.  Did you made her nervous! 

The price for dates from Kiev Connections has doubled from $25 to $50 in 2 1/2 years.  And for that you got fleeced a little.  I don't think just showing up at an agency is the best approach for you. 

If your goal is to find the love of your life, you would probably do better with a long correspondence with just a few ladies to include mostly telephone calls for spontaneous dialogue.  If you receive good vibrations, then take a trip to meet one, maybe another.

[TW1970]

The 20-yo terp is indeed wise.  I don't know your age; however, is she too young for you?

Yes, she is much wiser than her years. We are actually emailing almost every other day and I appreciate her frank insights and opinions especially since she knows quite a bit about Ukrainian women. I'm 37 BTW.

I second Shadow's comments about drinking alcohol.  Some of these women drink little, what we would call "social" drinking.  Others have a huge thirst and capacity, yet consider it "social" drinking.  According to my RW wife (who loves her mojitos and would drink 6 in two hours if they are made in the Cuban style with lots of crushed mint), "social" drinking is defined as anything other than drinking alone, regardless of the quantity consumed.

It's hard to say because over 18 days, I only met 2 women that I would consider, "heavy drinkers". Sure the rest enjoyed a drink or two but not to the extreme that 2 ladies did who I met. I think if I had consumed 7 beers on one date there, that might not have gone over too well with the woman.

The price for dates from Kiev Connections has doubled from $25 to $50 in 2 1/2 years.  And for that you got fleeced a little.  I don't think just showing up at an agency is the best approach for you. 

If your goal is to find the love of your life, you would probably do better with a long correspondence with just a few ladies to include mostly telephone calls for spontaneous dialogue.  If you receive good vibrations, then take a trip to meet one, maybe another.

Yeah, I think the cost of a lot of things has gone up in Kiev of the last 2 years. Other folks there told me similar stories. I can not say how things in agencies were in the past but my impression is that there are fewer Americans going these days. In the office I mostly saw Aussies and dudes from Europe. Only ran into 2 other Americans.

BTW, in your profile is that a Russian or Ukrainian police hat?? I saw a few police/military wearing the same hat in Kiev.

[Ooooops]

$40 taxi ride?   Where does she live?   Moscow?      Although I have to give it to her, not bad way to make money.   

As for drinking and smoking - don't go for it if it bothers you.   Social or asocial - it's a habit and won't change, probably. 

[BillyB]

Almost all women I met smoked cigarettes. 

It seemed like most women in Kiev smoked when I was there too. Strange that most these ladies profiles on websites don't reflect that. Agencies know that most Western men prefer non smoking women and do coach them on how to write their profile.