Never thought I'd write one

[Brianinaz]

I never pictured myself writing one of these mostly because I was sure I didn't have the patience to record all the details that I have seen others recount after their trips. I figured the best I would do was "spent a week in xyz city, met some interesting people, in the end nothing worked out, I guess I'll try again." I don't really have a real desire to 'tell my story" but I have learned a lot from reading what others have written so in the spirt of giving back so that others may benifit I think I should share some of my experiences.

I'm not going to write in miniute to minute detail about one trip but rather I'm going to hit the high lights of the last three or so years. Most people start at the begining of a trip and go through to the end. I'm going to start at the end and go back to the begining.

On July 19, 2008 at about 4:20 in the afternoon Kharkov time I married the most wonderful woman I have ever met. I still don't quite believe it but I've got a ring on my finger, and an offical looking document that I can't read that say's I did, and a bunch of photo's that seem to indicate it happened. How I got so lucky I'm not sure but I did so I'll just have to accept that it was my turn.

This all started a little more than 3 years ago, actually I take that back, a little closer to 5 years when my ex-wife told me she didn't want to be married anymore. The details that led up to that aren't going to help anyone here so I will spare everyone. A couple of months later she moved out and we were arguing over custody of the kids (no amicable s*** here). As I guess for many of us it was a couple of months before I could do much more than get up and go to work and take care of the kids when I had them. I mention the business of kids because it it played a significant role in me being where I am now.

Anyway after 3 or 4 months it settled in that relationship was over. I started to think about my options for the future and take stock in the situation. It wasn't a pretty picture. I live in a beautiful place about an hour from the state capital. It's a great place to raise a family but a really bad place to be single. I was sure I wanted 50/50 custody of the kids. That was a responsibility I had to them and I wasn't budging on that. If I could have moved an hour down the road I would not be here today; I'm sure of that. I hear many people bash American girls. My experience with them has not been that bad. I've been fortunite to know some pretty cool women. But getting back to my little corner of the world; great place, slim pickin's for single women. So, where does one turn? WHere else the internet. Match, Yahoo, AOl, and that Dr. What's his name? from eharmoney, talk about a scam, 20 areas of compatability (excuse me while I hurl in a bucket here). What I found is there are some pretty interesting women out there on some of these sites. However they are/were for the most part unable or unwilling to pack up and move to my little slice of heaven. So, as you can imagine I've got profiles on a bunch of these sites, and as I said I met a few nice girls. One day I'm going through the email and I get a letter from a lady who say's she lives not that far away and she sounds kind of interesting. A few letters later and it's well I'm actually from Russia and can wou send me a hundred dollars (to be continued)
 

[Thor]

Brian,

First of congratulation to you and your beautifull and sweet wife!!! I am glad that Rich and I came and saw you together on your big day . It was not hard to tell that you where a very proud grom on sauterday Brian. You have found a wounderfull wife, beautifull and sweet and with sutch a charming and nice charackter. Thanks for the time we had together in Kharkov this summer, I will always remember it. Now I wish the best for you and Natalia and I hope that she will start her new life in the US as soon as possible.

On your weeding day you both looked like the most happy couple in the world!!! Now starts your new life together. I hope to see you in Kharkov in the future Brian and all the best to you. PS: I got your PM and I will tell Rena to ad Natalia to her Skype list...Take care!!

[steviej]

Brian (is that it?) - Congratulations! I'm glad you're doing this retrospective TR. Even though I've been married 5+ years now, I still find I learn useful things in them. Like you, I was coming out of the divorce/kids/family town thing too.

Thor, you were at the wedding? Man, that is soooo cool !!

[Thor]

Stevie,

No I was not at the wedding. In Kharkov the tradition is that the bride and the groom travels to several places in the city to take photos. So my US buddy Rich and I went to the steps not fare from Schevshenko park and found the happy couple there busy taking photos. We gave our congrats to the happy couple . We where the only foreign peoples present there and the photographer "shoot" some photos of the happy couple and Rich and myself . It was great to see how proud and happy Brian was. I think that this big day in his life gave a huge emotinonal impact on him...

[ambach123]

Congratulations!

Excuse me for asking but I have a question, doesn't getting married in Ukraine delay the visa process?  I thought K1 or fiance visa is the quickest.

Thanks.

[groovlstk]

Congratulations!

Excuse me for asking but I have a question, doesn't getting married in Ukraine delay the visa process?  I thought K1 or fiance visa is the quickest.

Thanks.

I think this Q is irrelevant given your requirements for a spouse. Regardless of how long the visa process takes, if a woman arrives on a K3 she'll get her green card several weeks after arrival. So in the event she escapes from your basement she'll fly the coup and you'd have no chance to lure her back.

[GreginGa]

Congratulations!

Excuse me for asking but I have a question, doesn't getting married in Ukraine delay the visa process?  I thought K1 or fiance visa is the quickest.

Thanks.

It used to speed it up when someone got married and done a DCF(direct consulate filing) in Kiev and then interviewed in Warsaw. I think it has since changed. I do know there were once huge advantages to getting married there in regards to citizenship. I wanted to get married there because I wanted my wife to spend her special day with her family. Mine had already given up the thought of ever seeing me walk down the aisle. LOL, not really

[Jumper]

Brian Congrats!!



greginG said..

It used to speed it up when someone got married and done a DCF(direct consulate filing) in Kiev and then interviewed in Warsaw. I think it has since changed. I do know there were once huge advantages to getting married there in regards to citizenship. I wanted to get married there because I wanted my wife to spend her special day with her family

Ambach-

I also married in Ukraine, and like greg,
that was exactly our situation.

it was done to let her have her family involved in the wedding ( traditional and a very big deal )
and at that time,, several years ago,,
the DCF process was in place thru warsaw,,so it was as fast,,or maybe faster,,
 than a K1.

I have no idea what the various ways of filing are today,
 or the advantaged/s disadvantages.

the original poster,
Brian knows i am sure ,since he will be right in the middle of it all, at this time?
 

[steviej]

Congratulations!

Excuse me for asking but I have a question, doesn't getting married in Ukraine delay the visa process?  I thought K1 or fiance visa is the quickest.

Thanks.

There could be BIG differences between what happens if you marry a UA girl vs. a RU girl, too.

[2tallbill]

There could be BIG differences between what happens if you marry a UA girl vs. a RU girl, too.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a UA vs RU girl in the middle of a trip / life report. If so
I recommend starting a new thread, and let the guy tell his story here.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

[steviej]

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a UA vs RU girl in the middle of a trip / life report. If so
I recommend starting a new thread, and let the guy tell his story here.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

Bill you misunderstood me. I meant about the visa. The US government may deal with a marriage in Ukraine differently than a marriage in Russia. For example, just for travel, you don't have to have a visa to go to Ukraine, but you do to go to Russia. The marriage visa (I thinks its K-3 ?) may not be handled the same way from different countries. Just something that might need investigation.

[BC]

Bill you misunderstood me. I meant about the visa. The US government may deal with a marriage in Ukraine differently than a marriage in Russia. For example, just for travel, you don't have to have a visa to go to Ukraine, but you do to go to Russia. The marriage visa (I thinks its K-3 ?) may not be handled the same way from different countries. Just something that might need investigation.

I kinda doubt it.. Their efforts to deter seem notable http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7986.msg144751#msg144751

[Brianinaz]

So, I ended above with the letter writer from Russia. I don't remember if I even bothered to reply to the last letter. I kind of forgot about it and went about my business; working and periodically thinking about how to put my life back together. I met a few people through the domestic sites and had a couple of nice casual relationships but distance always became the limiting factor. If I recall I was cleaning out my email folder one day and came by one of the letters from that "Russian" lady that had a photo attached. I looked at it and remembered how impressed I was with her appearance when "she" first wrote. I remember I thought for kicks I would "search" Russian women on the internet. What a shocker that was. I spent an hour or two cruising through a few sites. I was floored. Over the next weeks to months I became increasingly interested, reading as much as I could. Looking at the web sites it seemed way too good to be true. You know the propaganda, drunken abusive men, disproportionate men to women ratio etc. I figured most of it had to be BS and eventually found my way to a few forums and discussion groups like this one. There was one I was looking at that had a tour leader for the large tour group based here in AZ debating with other members of the board on the validity of the claims that his Agency was making. This debate went on for weeks and weeks. I talked to this guy on the phone, I talked to one of the agency owners on the phone, listened in on a few of the conference calls they sponsor and finally went to one of their meet and greet presentations. At the end of it all I figured a lot of it was BS but was it 60/40, 70/30, 90/10 I couldn't tell. I figured by the number of profiles it couldn't be a complete fabrication. So after about 6 or 7 months of investigation I decided the only way to know was to make a trip and see for my self. So, I applied for a passport and set about deciding where and with whom I was going to go with. I guess there are some adventurous souls out there who make the first trip solo but for me this was the former Soviet Union. I'm old enough to have done the under the desk at school when the warning sounds so this was the land of commies, AK-47's, gulags, you know James Bond s***. So, I wanted someone to hold my hand and watch out for my a**. In retrospect I would have been fine had I gone alone but going with a group made the first exploration much easier and painless. I settled in on one of the two large US based tour groups and of those two I picked the one here in AZ for no other reason than I could drive to their office if I wanted. The next decision was where to go. That came down to timing with work and my kids. I have them every other week and I promised myself I wouldn't vary on that so they would have as much stability as possible. As it worked out the Odessa tour fit into the schedule. So, I signed up and off to Odessa I was going. (to be continued)

[2tallbill]

So, I ended above with the letter writer from Russia. I don't remember if I even bothered to reply to the last letter. I kind of forgot about it and went about my business; working and periodically thinking about how to put my life back together. I met a few people through the domestic sites and had a couple of nice casual relationships but distance always became the limiting factor.

If I recall I was cleaning out my email folder one day and came by one of the letters from that "Russian" lady that had a photo attached. I looked at it and remembered how impressed I was with her appearance when "she" first wrote. I remember I thought for kicks I would "search" Russian women on the internet. What a shocker that was. I spent an hour or two cruising through a few sites.

I was floored. Over the next weeks to months I became increasingly interested, reading as much as I could. Looking at the web sites it seemed way too good to be true. You know the propaganda, drunken abusive men, disproportionate men to women ratio etc. I figured most of it had to be BS and eventually found my way to a few forums and discussion groups like this one.

There was one I was looking at that had a tour leader for the large tour group based here in AZ debating with other members of the board on the validity of the claims that his Agency was making. This debate went on for weeks and weeks. I talked to this guy on the phone, I talked to one of the agency owners on the phone, listened in on a few of the conference calls they sponsor and finally went to one of their meet and greet presentations.

At the end of it all I figured a lot of it was BS but was it 60/40, 70/30, 90/10 I couldn't tell. I figured by the number of profiles it couldn't be a complete fabrication. So after about 6 or 7 months of investigation I decided the only way to know was to make a trip and see for my self. So, I applied for a passport and set about deciding where and with whom I was going to go with.

I guess there are some adventurous souls out there who make the first trip solo but for me this was the former Soviet Union. I'm old enough to have done the under the desk at school when the warning sounds so this was the land of commies, AK-47's, gulags, you know James Bond s***. So, I wanted someone to hold my hand and watch out for my a**.

In retrospect I would have been fine had I gone alone but going with a group made the first exploration much easier and painless. I settled in on one of the two large US based tour groups and of those two I picked the one here in AZ for no other reason than I could drive to their office if I wanted.

The next decision was where to go. That came down to timing with work and my kids. I have them every other week and I promised myself I wouldn't vary on that so they would have as much stability as possible. As it worked out the Odessa tour fit into the schedule. So, I signed up and off to Odessa I was going. (to be continued)

Brian I quoted you then broke up the sentences every 4 or 5 lines It makes the whole thing much easier to read.
Don't misunderstand me, I appreciate you writing this.

Udachi,

Bill[/size]

[Brianinaz]

Bill

Thanks for the editing, you're right.

Brian

[Brianinaz]

So off to Odessa I went. Aside from Mexico and Canada it was the first time I had traveled abroad. This tour company stated in the brocure that someone from the company would be traveling with the group from JFK in New York. Not. It would have been nice though because changing planes in Vienna was a bit of a challenge. You adjust to being unable to communicate verbally pretty quick but that first experience of not being communicate and the associated feeling of being helpless was scary.

Anyway, the rest of the plane flight was unremarkable. Landing in Odessa was interesting. The first time you see the disrepair that much of the FSU is in it is an eye opener. I was also a little taken aback by the military types who met the plane and having to get off the plane on the tarmack and ride a bus to drab building. My first impression was a Toto we're not in Kansas anymore combined with maybe this wasn't such a good idea.

I made it through customs without any problems but was a little intimidated by the guys walking around with AK-47's. It is interesting, since then I have traveled around quite a bit in Ukraine and some in Russia and Odessa is the only place where police/military were carrying automatic rifles. It is also the only place I felt a little intimidated by the guys in uniform.

Anyway, after getting through customs we all got on a bus to ride into the city. It was a western style tour bus. After I got on the bus and sat down I felt back to normal. Looking back it was like back to familiar surroundings (western style bus) relieved the little bit of anxiety I felt. The ride to the hotel was an eye opener. The row after row of deteriorating block housing, minibuses, and old trolleys was nothing short of amazing.

The tour was based out of the Odessa Hotel. We got there and it was like OK this is nice. It's definitely a solid 4 star place built on a pier that juts out into the black sea. If you have occasion to be in Odessa it's worth the price to stay there for a couple of days. I had a beautiful view of the sea from the 15th floor, and the rooms were very nice.

The first evening there was a group meeting, an orientation, what will happen and meet and greet with the interpreters thing. It was marginally informative but interesting. Meeting the interpreters was the first contact with any of the local ladies and there were some hot young women in the group. A couple of us went up to the bar/lounge on the top floor. That was another eye opener and my first experience with some of the differences between here and there. By the end of the evening I was convinced this would be an interesting 10 days. (to be continued)

 

[Brianinaz]

The next day we got a tour around the center of town arranged for phones and generally got oriented. I was struck by both the beauty of the place and the degree of disrepair of many of the buildings. Some of the architecture is stunning. You may have a beautiful building with intricate detail right next to one that is literally crumbling apart.

And of course there are the girls. On the first trip it is at first hard to believe there are that many stunning women in one place. I later discovered that it is a bit of a city center phenomenon. If you venture out into the neighborhoods out from the center and walk around you find it is a little more normal. Not every woman you see is gorgeous. But in the city center you can sit in a side walk cafe' and be entertained for hours by the sheer beauty of the women walking by.

Some of the guys who had been on one of these tours before were already busy hitting the catalogues and making phone calls. Why you would want to do more than one of these is beyond me but some people are apparently repeat offenders. One was probably a good idea and I think for someone who does not have much international travel experience going on a tour is a reasonable way to get started. You are not going to meet the love of your life on one but then again I think the first trip should be a vacation of sorts; go check out some place you've never been, introduce yourself to the culture, talk to some people, make some contacts that sort of thing. Everything is arranged for you. All you have to do is show up. I know I learned a lot on that trip. But after that introductory experience I don't see any value in them at all.

So the first full day was a Friday and Friday night was the first of the 3 "socials". This was another unique experience. I had no idea what to expect. They tell you a little bit about them. There will be a bunch of women and you walk around and talk to them. I thought to myself well this will be interesting. I'm not really one of those people who are good at the "cold sell"; you know one of those people who can walk into a room full of people they don't know and just walk around talking to people like they've known them for 20 years. I've always thought it would be a good skill to have, I just don't have it. So, to be honest I was a little nervous. Keep in mind at this point I thought it might be possible to meet someone on one of these tours. So, I was sitting outside the hotel later in the afternoon looking at some of the yachts that were parked in the marina and this bus pulls up and 40 or 50 giggling beauties get off the bus and head into the hotel. I found out later these are the girls they bus in from Nikolaev. I was sitting there watching these girls get off the bus and thinking Oh my God, It was an interesting combination of disbelief, joy, excitement, and fear.

They have you make out a list of the women from their web site you would like to meet/invite to these socials which I did. I was like a little school boy before that first social. I went over the list of women who had supposedly responded and would be there that night trying to memorise some bits of information from their profile so I could sound like I was very interested in them when I talked to them. It's funny because of the 30 or so women I picked to invite and who were suppose to come to one of the 3 socials I didn't recognise or meet one of them.

They hold these socials in the banquet room of this hotel and the women are all inside by the time you arrive from upstairs. It was another of those unique experiences walking into that room. There were maybe 15 guys on the tour and they came through with the promise to have a bunch of women there. I'm going to guess there were close to a hundred women or more tin this room. Most were seated at tables, 5 or 6 at a table. I walked in and stood in the back of the room and thought holy s*** what do I do now.

I have to go to work so I will continue this some other time.

[Brianinaz]

Sorry for the long pause to anyone who was reading and or interested. I find it hard to carve out the time for long passages but but I'm back in Kharkov and have some time before my wife gets off of work so I will write a few lines.

So, there I was at this "social", first time in the FSU, a room full of women and I was pretty much speechless. The set up is a bunch of tables in a ballroom with 4 or 5 women at each table. After a few glasses of the complimentary champaign I regained the power of speech. The idea was to go from table to table and chat with as many ladies as possible. What happened is you would sit down at the only chair available at the table and it was so loud and with no language skills you really could only speak to the girls right next to you that is if one of them spoke any English. Invariably the girl that was attractive to you was on the otherside of the table. The evening went along more or less like that. Most of the girls were young, in their early 20's and since I at 49 (at the time) was looking for someone a bit older the whole thing was more entertaining than productive. I ended up spending a good amount of time with a young lady and her sister from Nikolaev. She was a sweet girl and I saw her a couple of times afterwards but again too young (21) (You know at my age if they're calling to ask mom if it's OK to stay out for a while they're too young). The next next night was a repeat of the first.

During the day you would go through the catalogues picking out girls for "private meetings". They had a bunch of interpreters sitting around making calls and arranging meetings. The interpreters were sweet and did a great job. If you had the stamina for it they would have you meeting someone every 20 minutes all day long.

I started writing this not to tell my story but to share some of the things I learned with the folks that haven't gotten to the end of the road yet so, here's the first thing I learned: You can't tell much of anything about a person from a profile. It should seem obvious but if you're sitting at home and that's all you've got it's not that hard to "fall in love" with a picture, a description, and a few letters. There's very little correlation with the person you meet in person. So, IMHO don't fall in love with someone you don't know.

I did meet one girl in all those "private meetings" that was a standout. I met her just before the second social. She had just registered with the local affiliate, her profile wasn't on the web site, and I later found out I was the first person she met, wrote to etc. Anyway when the interpreter called her earlier on Saturday she said she would like to meet me, but was studying for exams (law student) and it would have to be later in the week. I said fine. Well she called back later in the afternoon and said she would like to meet for a little while but couldn't stay long. I said fine (I'm easy). So, I met her in the lobby of the hotel just before the social. I was floored, beautiful, smart, charming. It was kind of cute, she was more nervous than I was, I could see her heart was racing, she was breathing like 30 times a minute, I was just amazed. I saw her probably 5 more times before I left and thought wow maybe this is going somewhere. I talked to her twice on the phone after I got home and then puuff, gone. No answer on the phone, no reply to emails, nothing. Second lesson boys: don't take things too seriously until you have a solid relationship, with a bunch of face time. It's hard to do but try to keep some composure and rationality to your thoughts. If a relationship is going to develop let it do just that. Don't let the distance make you irrational.

Got to go more to come 

 

[William3rd]

Out of the 15 men on this tour, how many of them went home engaged? Are you still in touch with any of the men?

15 on a summer tour- a far cry from the 30-40 of past years.

[Brianinaz]

Midweek the tour took a trip to Kherson for a “one nighter”. That was pretty much a waste of time with the exception of getting out of the Odessa city center. It was my first exposure to what things really look like in most of the country. The first time you see the row after row of block housing all in varying states of decay and disrepair it is fairly impressive. Thinking about it however it is not that different from the tenement housing in the Bronx but my first thought was “Toto we aint in Kansas anymore”. It was a stark contrast to the city center in Odessa which is quite picturesque with its restored architecture and sidewalk cafés. And the girls; again on the first trip it’s almost surreal. It’s hard to believe it’s real.

As far as the claims that the tour company made about over 50% of the guy’s getting engaged/married after one tour that’s a complete crock of s***. Of the 15 or so guy’s on the tour I know of only one who got engaged and that was to a girl he had met through another site and had been corresponding with for some time. Unfortunately for him that ended up falling through .

So, to summarize my experience with group tour; it was a great introduction to travel in the FSU. I would have never had the where with all to do it solo the first time. Some do but I know I would not have taken the plunge. 

I think it is extremely unlikely that you will meet someone and develop a relationship on one of these tours but for those like me who would like a firsthand view before striking out on your own it is a good way to go. My objective with this first trip was to find out for myself what was real and what was not. When I returned I thought I had done that. Little did I know that it would take several more trips before I began to understand what and who was real (“on the level”) and truth be known I think that unless you live there for a while, develop friendships with the people, and are fluent in the language the best you can hope for is to be an informed outsider looking in. In the end I had a lot of fun , met some interesting people, and probably most important concluded that I might be able to find a beautiful, intelligent woman there to spend my life with. 

[Brianinaz]

William

As I mentioned above I know of only one guy who got engaged on the tour and it was to a girl he had been writing to from another site. She broke off the engagement some months later. In all fairness though I did not do anykind of follow up survey of all the guys. I wish I had gotten everyone's contact information because it would nave been nice to be able to say I spoke to everyone 6 months later and x number of 15 got engaged but I didn't. Ispoke to a few of the guys a couple of times afterwards and none of them developed any relationships with someone they met on the tours.