A Wallet on Legs?

[Admin]

So when he insults all of us, you try to devine what you think he may have meant. Your bias in this matter is really unfathomable, because right and wrong is clear here, and you are siding with wrong. Reminds me of an abused housewife making excuses for her husband "but I know he means well".

Andrew does not mean well. And he insulted every man here more than once in this one thread. He admits that he is at cross purposes with this board. But for some reason you value him enough to ignore this, and to make excuses for him. Fine, it is your board. It is your right. But if you want to know why RWG ticked so many people off, it was guys like andrewfin and cameragirl who got coddled by the mods, and protected by the owner.

Oosik,

I am not coddling anyone. I didn't appreciate some of what Andrew wrote, and I addressed it to him. We'll see how he resonds - but as you probably know, it's currently the middle of the night where he lives - so it may be some time.

It seems that you have a history with Andrew - just as you had one with jb. In this case, you drag that history with you, and act on it here at RWD. I do not share your history, hence, read things differently - and you get your nose out of joint because I won't do as you wish.

Sorry - but that's the way it is.

I do not see Andrew as being cross-purposes with the direction and intent of the board. If I did, I would have acted long before this.

So let's stop 'talking' about Andrew - and let's address your personal insults. They need to stop.

- Dan

[RacerX]

To Whom It May Concern:

3.   Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

1. Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view.

9. I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

[Bruno]

To Whom It May Concern:

3.  
1.
9.

:noidea: What is the mean of these strange order ( 3,1,9 )... usually, it is "1,2,3"...

 

[BC]

Interesting how so many get upset when Andrew gets a little bold or uses a word like 'misfit' for which there are several meanings.

I read his posts quite carefully, even the one Ken mentioned..  I find no insult.

Like many of us he likes to play with words.. I'm surprised so many get sucked in.  He's probably ROFL over this..

[Michelangelo]

Interesting how so many get upset when Andrew gets a little bold or uses a word like 'misfit' for which there are several meanings.

I read his posts quite carefully, even the one Ken mentioned.. I find no insult.

Like many of us he likes to play with words.. I'm surprised so many get sucked in. He's probably ROFL over this..

Fine, but what about the statement
"lets be straight about this. If the guys making trips to buy a bride had the personal requisites to attain their ambitions back home, they would. As they do not, they travel abroad. If they lack the personal attributes, then that pretty much leaves financial attributes"

The meaning is VERY clear.  The guy is incorrect and off base with this statement.

[BC]

Michelangelo,

I noticed that the post was addressed to another user.  Andrew was not talking about anyone here specifically only about his general opinion of the majority of guys that get caught up in MOB and seek brides in the FSU.

I share also thoughts along these lines.  Although there are some guys going there for good reasons and making good choices, the MOB scene does seem to attract a whole slew of guys that are going there for the wrong reasons and making very poor choices.

Just a general side note:

Someone I highly respect once told me that if I ever get hot under the collar about what someone says then there is probably an issue I should look for within myself.

[Leslie]

I started this thread 5 months ago and it had stopped a month later.  A Fiance restarted the discussion a couple of days ago and it soon descended into an arguement.

Listen guys if you want to argue open a thread in "No holds Barred"  and hammer away.

I may even join in in

Dan you need to separate posting your views on a topic (which in this thread I agree with) and moderation activity.  These two roles don't mix.

 

 

[Rvrwind]

Well I ain't no moderator & I certainly don't have any ambition to aspire to be one. Being as I know Andrew personally & have shared living quarters with him albiet for a short period I can assure you he was not insulting anyone in particular or singling anyone out for a brow beating.

Andrew is to my mind a very intelligent & well learned man, perhaps too much so for many who are not so well learned. His knowledge on many subjects sometimes when he writes come across a condicending & arrogant. One of the flaws of being overly intelligent I suspect. Other than that he is a nice guy, very helpful & willing to give to others without expectation. He is by no means a sex tourist. All his relationships have been of a long duration, a sex tourist has many short lived relationships as once he gets the sex he moves on to the next one.

As for his remark:

Are you guys misfits? Of course you are. All of you! Does that make you bad people, nope.  Misguided, self deluding? Perhaps, but not bad people and, after all, most people, in one way or another, are self deluding.

If you are taking it personally you in fact are proving his correctness in the matter. I also believe he was including himself in this statement because he knows as well as I that niether he nor I are perfect specimens of the male species. Having been in this buisness as long as I have, I can assure you that the majority of men fit idealy into this discription. To clarify the majority are probably not on this or any other board. There are thousands of men in this game & there certainly are not thousands on this board nor all the boards put together. Believe me out of every 100 guys trying this route, 95 of them are total losers. You may well be insulted by that as well but unfortunately those are the facts.

You also have to understand that I include into those figures the 'Keboard Romeo's' that will never make a trip, are probbably married, are deffinitly living a fantasy & couldn't get laid at home other than by their fat ugly wife, for love nor money, of which there are litterally thousands of such guys. You look at this board & think that this is the majority of men who are in a search for a foreign wife. My friends you are but a pitance. These boards I would guesstimate actually represent less than 10% of the total of men in this endeavour. Not even bringing into it the number of guys just playing games that will never conclude their search.

Most agencies thrive on these losers, they are their bread & butter & I can site several examples. I can even give agency owners comments that I know personally that love these guys to death. One owner told me straight up, "I don't care whether they ever show up & personally prefer they don't. That way I don't have to babysit them or provide anything for them." He makes his money on 'Keyboard Romeo's' & prefers it that way.

Another told me that the 'Bait & Switch' is perfectly alright & swears by it, the results are undeniable, he is thriving & I am dying. He has translators writing to the men & when the guy shows up to meet the lady she suddenly isn't available. They throw all kinds of gorgous agency girls at him & he soon forgets the lady he originally came to meet, who quite likely wouldn't know who he was anyway.

Now, to my point, why do these type of agencies get away with such tactics. I'll tell you & if it hurts your little feelings, oh well, the facts remain the same.

90% of the men in this game are not the pick of the litter!!

If you take this personally then obviuosly you fit into that catagory. Most agencies know this & use it to their advantage, why else would anybody continue to send money to known scam agencies, other than they are idiots or suckers for punishment? Why is it scam agencies continue to flourish well honest agencies continue to die out? I'll tell you, because most men think with what is in their pants instead of what is in their head, very easy deduction.

So don't chastise Andrew or me for that matter because we only state the facts.

Albert Ienstien once said, "Only two things are infinite, the universe & human stupidity. And I'm not too sure about the universe." The MOB industry has used that fact for years & will continue to do so until proven wrong by those who aspire to this endeavour.

I can see this post will cost me dearly but as those who know me will atest, I am not known for pulling my punches. I tell it like it is & am fully prepared to accept the conciquences. I have lost clients because I won't lie to save their feelings. Its better in my mind they should know upfront than to learn later & spend thousands of $'s on a dream or lost cause. Funny part of it is, most would rather continue spending money on that fantasy than spend it with someone honest who really is trying to help. What does that tell you about the male condition?

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[andrewfi]

I slept whilst you guys played.

It is strange that we share a language but not comprehension...

All of you guys who are seeking a foreign bride by travelling to Russia and seeking something that you can not get at home, are misfits. If you were not, then you would not be on that plane. You would have found a life partner from your own community. You would have fitted! If your need to conform is so great that you are insulted and upset by my pointing out the sublimely obvious, then you need to do one of two things:

1) Learn the English language.

or

2) Stay at home and learn to fit in and cease being that which you claim to abhor!

Ken and Oosik, if you are going to post in a critical manner, please do so from a fact based perspective. You Oosik render yourself open to reasonable claims of illiteracy or amnesia by making claims that are simply untrue and not worthy of response, particularly when your points are so easily rebutted by reference to the very organs that you claim to have been assiduously reading for half a decade. Ken, you might want to re-read the posts of those on this thread who DO know me and a little of how I live, They make the, fact based, points much better than I can in response to your inaccurate and puerile attempted jibes!

Michelanglo, when you have attained some degree of success in the field that you describe to us, perhaps you will have some credibiity when you make claims of astounding success within your own community. Your naive fumbling around the cities of Ukraine in the company of grifters and hookers suggests a fundamental lack of facility in the interpersonal relationship department. Your tales are interesting to read and are, hopefully descriptive of your darker moments and not the generality of your experiences with women from Ukraine, they are certainly not descriptive of normal relationships with the generality of women. We talk, in the world of work, of 'transferable skills' If your skills were up to the mark,as you claim, you would have transferred them with much greater success than you have managed thus far. Your actions and words tell us the truth.

Richard was certainly not far off base in suggesting that I was applying the epithet 'misfit' to myself. I certainly was and that is why I did what I did. I can recognise that in myself and it is no bad thing. It is a little sad that some of you guys have such a problem with recognising yourselves. Without a good deal of of self-awareness, building a cross cultural relationship becomes a very difficlut thing to do. But then, I guess I am lucky. I have most of what I want and I can look upon what I do as an illustration of learning and demonstrable success. This has real benefits in terms of obtaining respect from those with whom I live and have close relationships. I DO have more than perceived economic benefits to offer! Life is indeed good!

[Admin]

Dan you need to separate posting your views on a topic (which in this thread I agree with) and moderation activity. These two roles don't mix.

Well Leslie - here is how I see it.

We are ALL moderators here - to some degree. We ALL share a responsibility for what the board *IS* and what the board *BECOMES*.

If I had gone in and deleted something - then your point would have greater merit - but as it is, this is no different than if you were to decide to try to guide someone back from the precipice and get back on track or avoid a topic devolving into a flamefest.

The other thing is, your comment presumes I did not consider my moderator/adminstrator role in my responses in this topic. Actually, I even made what I *thought* was a joking type comment about the fact that I did, indeed, restrain my natural urges - to insure balance. Nearly all of my pointed comments were made in PM's - as they should be.

My running the board does not mean I forego my opinions or experiences. It does not mean that I must remain silent in the face of an opinion which differs from my experiences. And it is not often possible to predict the course of a topic which MAY end up needing future moderation when initially expressing those opinions/experiences.

- Dan

[KenC]

Andrew,

Maybe it is you that should learn the English language.

• Main Entry: mis·fit [/*]
  
• Pronunciation: 'mis-"fit [/i]also "mis-'fit[/i][/*]
  
• Function: noun[/*]
  
• 1 : something that fits badly[/i] [/i]
  2 : one who is poorly adapted to a situation or environment <social misfit[/i]s>[/i][/*]
   lookupchange('misfit','lookUpDic');
   [/b]

I for one do not consider myself a "misfit" and I am sure that many of my fellow members here feel the same.  I did not seek out a RW because I was poorly adapted to my environment, but because I was open minded to expanding my exposure to women from other countries.  It certainly wasn't because I couldn't find an AW to have me.  I "fit in" here just fine.  To say differently is offense and condecending.

Another language note for you:  When you include "all" in any statement, you are usually wrong.  As in "All of you"!

KenC

[andrewfi]

Ken, whilst I am sure that they told you you could read, it seems that cognition is not a strong suit.

Really. Think for a second. You married a young girl from Russia. A girl young enough to be a daughter. Without commenting upon the rights and wrongs, because there is no need. Ask yourself these questions.

1) Is it normal, in your society, for a man to marry a girl young enough to be his daughter?

2) Is it normal, in your society, for a man to marry a woman from another country, indeed, to actively seek her out? (And no, you can not tell anyone, with any honesty that you did not seek her out. You did not meet by accident. You made a series of specific choices that led to an almost unavoidable conclusion, marriage to a foreign woman.)

Neither of those things are normal. In these regards you did not FIT with the norms of your society. In these regards you are a misfit! If you fitted well with the norms of your society you would have an age appropriate relationship with a woman who shares your culture, language and nationality!

Is language so hard?

Frankly, I am proud that I am not the same as everyone else in the world. I am proud to be different from my peers. If you see conformity and your need to attempt to display it as being so important, and lack of conformity as such an issue, well, that's is your problem, not mine. Bt it does not render the reality any less real!

BTW, to the extent that the people here are:

1) Seeking a foreign wife

2) Married to a foreign woman

3) Living, by choice, in a different country

All are misfits. I was accurate and clear. Again, when making a post, please try to make it accurate and fact based, except when you are stating an opinion.

[RacerX]

Bruno ~ I was referencing that "silly phrases" thread Dan posted a little while ago, hence the numerical order.

This board's goal is primarily for men to discuss RW - when an individual hijacks a thread to spin his own  bating post I thought it best to ignore it and simply reply with canned commentary.

[KenC]

Andrew,

So as to not take this thread too far off it's intended course, I will start a new thread and answer your current post there.  Look for it under "Misfits" in the NHB section.  Give me a few moments to do so.

KenC

[andrewfi]

Ken, there is no need to do so. If you choose, feel free. I made a point here. You and others did not understand and chose to attempt insult. I clarified, without doing so. There is no need for you to parade ignorance further.

[KenC]

Andrew,

There is more to be said on this subject, but not in this thread.

KenC

[Michelangelo]

Dear Andrew,

I never objected to the term "misfit."   That implies someone who is willing to take the path less traveled, much like the sojourner in the famous American poem.

My objection was to your over generalization that

"…you would not be on that plane. You would have found a life partner from your own community…"

Andrew, you speak of your power with the English language.  Try writing "The majority of…." and you would be on target.  I'd even agree with you.

But when you directly state "ALL" men who date foreign girls do so because that is all they can get, you are dead wrong.

Just look at the married guys on this board for some examples that prove my point--competent men can choose a foreign wife for many reasons--and not simply because that is all they can achieve.

On a more personal note, I posted those 3 trips reports to illustrate what the journey is like so those that follow will have a mental set in place as the make the trip.  I did not make these trips looking for an "instant wife."

You wrote to me "If your skills were up to the mark, as you claim, you would have transferred them with much greater success than you have managed thus far."

I have had great success. I DID NOT post details of success, because the girls I really care about I will not subject to a public discussion.  But in light of your comments, perhaps I will post some "winners" that I have encountered the last two years in my relations with FSU girls…. But just because you find a great girl, it does not mean you should marry her!

The fact is, you are simply dating girls.  The object is not to marry quickly, but to have enough experience that you come to understand that foreign relationships are just like domestic.  And you patiently wait for the girl who you will be best with.

Yes, I could have been married countless times, in the US and in Russia and Ukraine.  But I choose to wait for the best, and enjoy the process along the way.  Just like at home.

[KenC]

[user=65]Michelangelo[/user],

Please post this on the new thread.

KenC

[Michelangelo]

No need to do that, Ken.

Andrew's arguement was doomed when he used the word "ALL."

[KenC]

Just an observation here.  We at RWD seem to like to continue old threads on and on, meandering through topic after topic there by making the entire thread too overwhelming for anyone to re-read.  This is not the way to make information user freindly.  We need to show more discipline and start new threads with new ideas.

KenC

[Michelangelo]

True, and it was Leslie's request.  So I'll post there.  But I'm done with this arguement--no need to repeat myself.  Plus, when Andrew wrote "all" or 100%, he sunk his own arguement...

[Leslie]

Dan,

I want to comment on your reply -

"My running the board does not mean I forego my opinions or experiences. It does not mean that I must remain silent in the face of an opinion which differs from my experiences. And it is not often possible to predict the course of a topic which MAY end up needing future moderation when initially expressing those opinions/experiences. "

Please post your experiences and opinions.  Both are valuable! 

However when you post on a thread and combine these with a moderating influence it does not work. 

You cannot be referee and play for either team

 

[Admin]

Dan,

I want to comment on your reply -

"My running the board does not mean I forego my opinions or experiences. It does not mean that I must remain silent in the face of an opinion which differs from my experiences. And it is not often possible to predict the course of a topic which MAY end up needing future moderation when initially expressing those opinions/experiences. "

Please post your experiences and opinions. Both are valuable!

However when you post on a thread and combine these with a moderating influence it does not work.

You cannot be referee and play for either team

Les,

The essence of my response was contained in my final sentence. It is, for all practical purposes, impossible to predict when (or if) a topic that I post my opinion on something, will later veer off-track and require intervention.

All I am able to do (all ANYONE is able to do) is be aware of the responsibilities they accept when they decide to be a moderator - and act accordingly. And I did.

I don't think it's so much a matter of picking sides - at least, for me it's not. It's merely a matter of protecting the interests of the board. I often contend with people whose opinions are different than my own. That is OK with me, and I like to think I am 'big' enough to accept that others have differing, and often valid, opinions from mine. When on RWD, I have the added burden of needing to protect the board and her members - and I try to do that as best I am able given all my frailties and humanness.

FWIW

- Dan

[al-c]

I support Dan on this 100%.

As a moderator on two other internet boards, I have no problem moderating and also participating in discussions.  Moderating does not mean taking sides or ruling on the validity of anyone's opinion.  It is about protecting the board.

For those who associate moderating to being the referee, your association is not accurate.  The person at a football game whose function most closely resembles a moderator is not the referee, but instead the security guard or the police officer.

 

[Oosik]

I put it on other thread.