A Wallet on Legs?

[dostogirl]

[user=743]a fiancee[/user] wrote:

 If ur husband is greedy ,how will u live the first time in another country,

the thing is, the idea of "greedy" is different in the US. What seem greedy for a RW is not greedy for an AM, just economical...

[Rvrwind]

the thing is, the idea of "greedy" is different in the US. What seem greedy for a RW is not greedy for an AM, just economical...

Good point dotsgirl...I look at it this way.

My immediate family comes first...my wife, my children & me. No matter whose side of the family the rest fall under they get what is left if anything which usually we try to send a few dollars for birthdays & Christmas but nothing in between.

Friends well, when they pay back what they already owe, I might consider loaning more, but not bloody likely. I always pay back my loans, sometimes I am a little late or take a little longer because of circumstances, but always they are repaid. I have no qualms about helping my family or my wifes family but when they come to expect it, that is an insult in my mind & disrespect. I work just as hard if not harder than most of them for what I get & I see no reason why I should be obligated to support anybody elses lazy ass.

I don't see myself as greedy, I just don't picture myself as the local welfare office.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[catzenmouse]

[user=743]a fiancee[/user] wrote:

Well,guys,let me to explain an another point of view.

Yes,many girls who looking for a foreigner husband,expect him to give her the gifts and some money(it depends-some girls want alot,some a little). I had many arguments with the russian brides on our forum. Their point: no need to change ur life for worse,only for better. Whats the use to go in usa,for example,if here u have a better life than will have there? If ur husband is greedy ,how will u live the first time in another country,where ull be absolutely dependent from ur husband ? I must to say,they are right from one side. But every situation is unique. Personally I never looked at my fiancee as a walking wallet. Though I am not rich. I am a doctor,but my income is too low. And when he proposed me a help,by himself,it was so pleasant for me. It showed me,at first,his attitude and that he willing to care about me. I am generous by myself,and I would like to give him many gifts as well. I did what I could. Yes ,I accepted his help:) But I appreciate and love him only more because of that. Because it shows him as a person. IMHO.

Firstly: Welcome to RWD Fiance!

 I think that it is correct and expected for a man to give small gifts etc. to a lady he is dating but not cash. If they become engaged then it is only normal for him to help her out additionally. If this is the woman that you are going to marry and spend your life with then why would you not want to make things a little easier for her and her family? If even a small amount like $50 or $100 a month if beyond you means then you better get this idea out of your head and go back to your trailer.

Ken

[Bruno]

... If this is the woman that you are going to marry and spend your life with then why would you not want to make things a little easier for her and her family?

:noidea: There is something that i don't understand... since several year, woman fight for the same right between men and women... so, why woman cannot :

- make small gift to man

- help him financially

- make it easy for his familly

I make a gift to someone because i wish it and not because some old tradition... in old time, this gift was needed since women was without income, and lower right...

Now, they have the same right and maybe more... from what i know, a woman is human but not a leech... Do you speak about love relation or business relation ?

 

[andrewfi]

Bruno ~ Dunno if you noticed, but in general, women in the FSU are poorer than the average man in Western Europe. In your Dad's day, men treated women a little differently, but as economic power has shifted and equalised, the needs change.

But, that said, I get nice things from my women, but not usually money. 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs!'

[catzenmouse]

I make a gift to someone because i wish it and not because some old tradition... in old time, this gift was needed since women was without income, and lower right...

Now, they have the same right and maybe more... from what i know, a woman is human but not a leech... Do you speak about love relation or business relation ?

As AndrewFin said, a woman there generally does not have the means availble to her to do much to help out anyone else except herself and her immediate family.

Ken

[Leslie]

The theme of this thread was not about small gifts and supporting your future wife. It was about the attitude of all the other hangers on -

"However to most of our friends and family I became the wallet on legs as soon as we married.  Now my wife's parents are dead so I don't reckon we owe anyone else a living but that is not the way they think.  I have more money than they do.  I should give them money...."

Richard and I are in complete agreement -

"I have no qualms about helping my family or my wife's family but when they come to expect it, that is an insult in my mind & disrespect. I work just as hard if not harder than most of them for what I get & I see no reason why I should be obligated to support anybody elses lazy ass.

I don't see myself as greedy, I just don't picture myself as the local welfare office."

A Fiance - Welcome to RWD. 

Of course your future husband should help.  You become a couple when marriage is proposed.  I don't think any of the married guys here would disagree. Ocassional help to retired people (for example babushka or parents) is normal.  Beyond that and you are into the territory Richard describes..........

Dostogirl is right the term  "greedy" in FSU does not have the same meaning in the west. 

A typical Russian guy with some money will not give a second thought to spending it all - especially if on holiday.  A typical Western guy will see that behaviour as stupid. Some of the money should be saved (invested).  This is a cultural difference.

The expectations of many single Russian women are out of proportion to what they bring to a marriage. (and these expectations are shared with many western women!).

When I was searching I always asked women who asked me for things what they were going to do for me in return??? 

Almost never got an answer to that question

My wife only learned the proper value of money here in UK when she went out to work.  Most new immigrants start at the bottom.  Working at a minimum wage job will soon curtail demands for Jimmy Choo shoes and diamond earrings.  The simple arithmetic of the number of  hours that must be worked to buy these things is far more persuasive than anything you can say..........


 

 

[mischief]

Working at a minimum wage job will soon curtail demands for Jimmy Choo shoes and diamond earrings.  The simple arithmetic of the number of  hours that must be worked to buy these things is far more persuasive than anything you can say..........

 

That was very well said!

[Zhena]

Bruno:) Welcome to a Russian world.

Let me explain. This problem comes from our menthality difference and nothing more. U saying about a similarity of men and the women...well,here its not so really. U wont meet many women who earns more then men. Sure,they existing. But even then,its not traditionally here that u have to pay for ur cup of a coffee-I mean,if a man invites a woman-he will pay. In USA,I guess,everybody pays for themselves. About the small gifts for a man-yes,I do it with a pleasure. All what I can. And as I said,all what he did for me-only beause he wanted so. And I appreciate that very much,cos that characterizing him as a person.

[Bruno]

[user=743]a fiancee[/user] wrote:

Bruno:) Welcome to a Russian world.

From my own experience, russian world don't exist really... the difference is more between be a gentleman or a greedy man...

Some cultural difference exist but inthe last year, the russian mentality have evolve a lot... i can go away from my own country one year, when i am back, it is the same mentality... this is not real true with russia... same after 6 month, the difference are huge...

Now, about my last post, i consider russian women like true feminist... in the good meaning of the term... our own local feminist are more like extremist... and i have really no problem with russian feminisme...

gift for familly and girlfriend are normal in the seduction process... but like everything, it is relatif ( ask Einstein for more info  ) ... but in any case, women who have the level of love linked to the bank account of men are not women for me...

Remember what is say when you marry : " For the best and the bad"... so woman, materialist minded, will quit the husband in case of problem... leading to more problem...

I prefert a wife who can enjoy a simple rose that i give her without any reason that the wife who is waiting some expensive gift...

So, if i choose to pay something to a women, it is because i am a gentleman, not because i am obligate...

being a gentleman means treating others in a respectful manner especially women.

I have respect for women when they show a mutual respect... if they consider myself like "a wallet on legs", the mutual respect dissappear. 

[Bruno]

Bruno ~ Dunno if you noticed, but in general, women in the FSU are poorer than the average man in Western Europe. In your Dad's day, men treated women a little differently, but as economic power has shifted and equalised, the needs change.

But, that said, I get nice things from my women, but not usually money. 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs!'

Agree with you... but FSU women are not specially poorer that FSU men... if the fact that we are westerner allow them to threat us differently, i cannot more agree...

Yes, in Western country, you have a few people who are very rich... but the main people, the worker mass, is not very different that FSU men...

Ten year ago, i was a rich man for FSU women... not, i am a usual man... and in some way, i prefert the actual situation... more difficult to find the right bride but she will love me for who i am and not for what i have...

[dostogirl]

so, why woman cannot :

- make small gift to man

- help him financially

- make it easy for his familly

It's totally possible after RW gets here and starts working, but it will take time

[Zhena]

Why do u look for a russian wife?

[Zhena]

Sorry-Bruno,look above,I asked u something.

[al-c]

Our U.S. dollars will buy 28 rubles.  U.S. dollars go a long way in Russia.  I make more in one day than most RW make in a month, but most RW could not live in New York for one day on her monthly income.

So when I open my wallet and buy things she could only dream about affording, like theater or dinner in a fine restaurant, I look rich.

So I prepare them by telling them up front that my income is an astrononical sum by Russian standards, but not by New York standards.  They cringe when they hear about the $500,000 houses here and the $25,000 cars.

Still some won't get it.  My ex-fiance didn't get it, demanded expensive gifts, and became insulted when I told her I could not afford them.  Even though I laid out my monthly budget to her, she still insisted that one can live in New York just as cheaply as in Novosibirsk and insisted that I could easily afford $1,000 gifts for her when she wanted them.

 

[Bruno]

[user=743]a fiancee[/user] wrote:

Sorry-Bruno,look above,I asked u something.

Please, give me some delay... 1 minute between your last post and the question... i am not always online, i need to work too !!!

So, your question was :

"Why do u look for a russian wife?"

The reply is very simple... i don't look for a Russian wife... i look simply for a wife... she can be from Belgium, Europe, USA, Russia, everywhere in the world... from Mars... i don't care...

Due to my previous work in Navy, border of country don't mean a lot for me... It is only political border and i think that a woman is a woman ... where she life is only a detail...

Of course, some cultural difference exist... some side are better and some other are bad... by example, i like honesty from russian women but they can have a so strong mind that it is not easy life together each day... of course, it is based on my own experience and a woman is not a other...

So, in short, my reply is simple, i look for a wife... and i don't care from where she is... border of country is not a limit for me... easy to understand when you see that the global population of my own country is around the same that Moscow... the fact that my country is little "obligate" me to have a mind more open to women from other country.

PS : My actual girlfriend is from your city  She is really a good woman  I have never send her money, i have never send her expensive gift, i have explain her that i am not rich... but it seem that it is not a problem for her... she like other quality that money... I have never ask her but it is possible that she earn more money that me since she have a good work...

But i can say that our case is not usual... we have know each other via forum... several month, i have think that she was a man... only recently, i have receive a photo from her... She have never think marry a foreign man... Maybe she will visit Belgium next month ( for business, but why not add pleasure when it is possible )... In any case, she is very different and better that the women i have try build a relation before... Some will call this "luck", other will call this "destiny"... but i am happy and she is happy too ( i think )...

Only answer honestly,ok

I hope that my reply is enough honest for you... if you need more info, ask it... i have never hide something and i will not begin now... honesty is a main value in my life...

 

[Bruno]

[user=527]al-c[/user] wrote:

So when I open my wallet and buy things she could only dream about affording, like theater or dinner in a fine restaurant, I look rich.

you have right al-c... the looking rich is a big problem... myself, i earn a medium income ( low medium ) for my country... but when i visit FSU, these girls think that i am rich...

And it is why when i visit FSU, i try to life like a FSU man... simple appartment in a block... shopping in FSU market... never visit tourist place but go to FSU popular place ( can be more dangerous but a lot of fun   )

Your behavour in FSU can give a bad idea over your life standing in your own country...

PS : When i compare with my own country, thing like opera, theater, musea are more cheap in Russia... but restaurant, food, etc... are more expensive in russia...

By example count how much kg kip meat that you can buy with your income in your own country... in my case, with my full income, i can buy around 1200 kg kip month... this seem a lot for a russian women... but i can only visit a musea only 80 time month with my full income... something who can seem low for RW

[al-c]

Well let me give you some comparisons, all in U.S. dollars:

Theater, Novosibirsk, 2 people:  $13.00

Theater, New York, 2 people:  $350.00

 

Dinner, 2 people, fine restaurant, Novosibirsk:  $30.00

Dinner, 2 people, fine restaurant, New York:  $150.00

 

Fast food, pizza, Novosibirsk, 2 people:  $3.00

Fast food, pizza, New York, 2 people:  $20.00

 

Hotel, Novosibirsk, 1 bed, 1 night:  $80.00

Hotel, New York, 1 bed, 1 night:  $350.00

 

1 bedroom apartment, per month, Novosibirsk:  $150.00

1 bedroom apartment, per month, New York:  $2,500.00

You get the idea.  I wish the ladies did.

 

[mischief]

It is very understandable why people in poor countries (not only FSU) assume that people from countries like US or UK have everything and don't have to work hard.  The myth comes mainly from the cheap stupid movies with a beautiful life and happy end which US alone produce quite a bit.  Another thing when poor person sees a little more money than they have, their imagination is overgrown by it and this does the trick!

(There is a good story for that… My mom is head of a certain department and any documentation in English addressed to her goes straight to the translators first.  Last year I faxed to my mom at work my husband's earning statement & other papers to obtain visa to US.

The translator (his imagination went wild) added extra two figures to his salary- wishful thinking on my part - so our income looked more than impressive . Anyway, within an hour the whole building knew how much my husband "makes" and everybody were asking my mom why she still works having son-in-law that rich.)

 

What I'm trying to say that it's quite natural for people in poor countries to see you, guys, as the ones who have money to burn …

Another thing that in the FSU countries especially young generation is not taught to work hard but is under delusion that one day a rich guy would come in their life and make it better… There are lots of reasons for that including the Soviet system itself and it's decline.  Who was a target of the extermination of Soviet Regime? - Rich people, people who worked hard enough and saved more to have a better future…

I'm not saying that there are no hard working people there… there are lots of them but they do understand the fact that money don't grow on the trees and they wouldn't come up to you and say: " Gimme some money, because you have more than I do".

Anyway… Leslie, the only cure for your brother in law is to find him a job in UK and let him see for himself how "easy" it is to make some money over there.

[ConnerVT]

I'll make a guess that you can use the same 10:1 salary ratio that I found works in Tver (a mid-level manager makes about $300/mo vs. about $3K/mo in the US).

[user=527]al-c[/user] wrote:

Well let me give you some comparisons, all in U.S. dollars:

Theater, Novosibirsk, 2 people:  $13.00

Theater, New York, 2 people:  $350.00

Novo wins, about 2.5X cheaper.

Dinner, 2 people, fine restaurant, Novosibirsk:  $30.00

Dinner, 2 people, fine restaurant, New York:  $150.00

Again to Novo, about half the comparable cost.

Fast food, pizza, Novosibirsk, 2 people:  $3.00

Fast food, pizza, New York, 2 people:  $20.00

 
New York wins this one.  But what did you expect?  As a former  New Yorker myself, all of the best pizza in the world can always be found one block from your door!

 

Hotel, Novosibirsk, 1 bed, 1 night:  $80.00

Hotel, New York, 1 bed, 1 night:  $350.00

 New York wins again, but it also works out as an issue of supply and demand.  NY has many rooms, and most of them are filled.  It also is easy to double or tripple that hotel price.  Perhaps we'll just call this one a draw...

1 bedroom apartment, per month, Novosibirsk:  $150.00

1 bedroom apartment, per month, New York:  $2,500.00

Same on this one.  Location, location, location.  Prices vary too much to call.

 

[Leslie]

Mischief,

"Anyway… Leslie, the only cure for your brother in law is to find him a job in UK and let him see for himself how "easy" it is to make some money over there. "

Tried to get him here for a visit 2 years ago.  Told him he could only come for a holiday, no working. I might have well been talking to the wall.  I sponsor him for a tourist visa and he goes to The UK consulate in Kiev.  The interviewing officer took 15 minutes to decide he was an undesirable alien who intended to work illegally in UK.  She turned down the tourist visa application (no appeal is possible for a tourist visa) and stamped a visa denial in his passport! 

Oh and guess who he blamed for this situation. 

Easy Peasy - Me!!

This summer we will vacation in Ukraine.  The summer after that we will petition for a visa again.  By this time Natasha will be a British citizen and a family visit visa cannot be denied.  So he can come for a holiday -  but not to work.  He has zero chance of a UK work permit as he speaks no English.....

 

[Zhena]

Bruno-congrads,I hope shes what u want:)

But let me tell u,if shes rich,she may not willing to change her location. What is shes work,if not a secret? I think u realise that in Belgium she wont be able to make same money,at least a first time.

The girls here dont look for the foreigner husband cos hes rich. Most of them not so silly and understand that in another country such income is not so much. But the presents is a part of a culture,not more. The men here are spoilt by a big choice of the young pretty women. The guys who visited my country will understand what about I talking. But also,men here are generous mostly and gives to their girls alot of things. Thats why the girls expect the same from u. They consider the men to be a bread-winner. So if u dont agree with it,possible u shouldnt look in this country. A russian woman will be quite expensive for u ,at least a first time. And as I said,the rich women who erans alot,usually dont willing to change their location.

[Bruno]

[user=743]a fiancee[/user] wrote:

Bruno-congrads,I hope shes what u want:)

Since i know her, "what i want" have change... so, i will say that she is "what i need"

But let me tell u,if shes rich,she may not willing to change her location.

When we have know each other, she was not thinking about a foreign marriage, she was not thinking change her location. Since our friendship have evolve in a "love" relationship, now, she is not more opposed to marriage and relocation.

 What is shes work,if not a secret? I think u realise that in Belgium she wont be able to make same money,at least a first time.

Import/Export business... administration and translation ( russian-ukrainian-english-dutch)... about make money in Belgium, i am not sure in her case... She will normally work next month in Belgium during a few days due to a business contract ( in Antwerpen )...

The girls here dont look for the foreigner husband cos hes rich. Most of them not so silly and understand that in another country such income is not so much. But the presents is a part of a culture,not more. The men here are spoilt by a big choice of the young pretty women.

From what i have see by myself, Russian/Ukrainian men are more able to say "no" that the foreign one... and a FSU man make only gift to his already girlfriend or to a woman he is hoping bring to bed... And local men don't buy gift like necklace at several thousand $$$ or shoes at several hundred $$$, they need to eat...

The guys who visited my country will understand what about I talking.

I have already visit your country... and some other FSU country

 But also,men here are generous mostly and gives to their girls alot of things. Thats why the girls expect the same from u.

Yep, they give a lot of cheap gift... they make the girlfriend pregnant... flee away since they don't wish have financial responsability for the child... do you expect the same from us?

 They consider the men to be a bread-winner. So if u dont agree with it,possible u shouldnt look in this country. A russian woman will be quite expensive for u ,at least a first time.

I was previously married during 5 year with a russian woman... She have never wish work and i was the only bread-winner... and you can add that i have take care during these periode of her own daughter ( result of his previous husband who have flee when she was pregnant )... So, i think that i have already the needed experience about how take care financially of a FSU/Western family.

Of course, i am not marriage material for a gold digger since i am not rich enough... i can only be a good and responsible husband... and i think that it can be enough for some FSU women...

 

[Zhena]

Of course, Bruno-ure a good person,I wish u all the best. Hope ull find what u lookin for.

[Oosik]

When I was in Kamchatka, I knew a 38 y/o Russian Man. He loved 18 year olds. He had a 18 y/o gf that had just left him.

Turns out he had been spending 2-3 times an average russian monthly salary on her for 3-4 months, and then had to back off. When he backed off the money, and tried to step up her committment, she dumped him.

You don't have to be AM to be a wallet with legs.