Experiencing the Cinderella Complex: I married a FSU woman

[gousa]

Bring it on boys and light me up.  I will take all comers.  Words will never hurt me.
I like all of these comments and opinions and I will try to address all of them.
My purpose for being here is to say to anyone, "Don't let this happen to you."

The house in Florida was 150,000.  Half of that went to her for the divorce.
For those who haven't read carefully the DV was filed by me against my wife, not her against me.  She almost went to jail.  I dropped the charges.

About the inheritance, it's a long story:    At the turn of the 20th century the local lumber company had leveled all the trees in the area and was moving out.  They were looking for someone to sell their property to and my mother's father stepped up and made the investment.  He bought about thirteen square miles of logged off property and held onto it.   I live in a forrest region and there are no jobs here and almost no women.   He built a boys camp on it and it ran for several years until the great depression hit.  He wasn't very good with money and
was broke then so he killed himself for the life insurance money so the family could have some money.   He had three daughters and one son.  THe oldest was my mother.   THe townspeople never told how he killed himself and they kept it a secret for the children's sake, but that's what happened.   My mother never knew this and only recently have I learned the details.  Anyway, her mother kind of fell apart after his death and she just became a land manager and sold most of it.   THere was the best of it, 30 acres of lake frontage left when I was born.  My mother and father were living there and my father constructed a trailer park on the property during the year that I was born.    They were older parents.  My mother was 44 and my dad was 52 when I was born in 1961.   It was a small house with a wood stove.  I never had a bedroom and I slept on the sofa and the floor most of my life, and I still do.    I grew up with an axe in my hand.  It was my job to split up all the heating wood for the house.   I'm really good with an axe, chainsaw or any heavy forresting equipment and I am very good at falling trees and cutting them and piling them up.   I also have a dual BS degree in mathematics and computer science,  an MCSA (Microsoft Certified System Administrator) certificate and a private pilot license.   I worked with my father on the trailer park and in the woods until I was 14 when I got my first job at a full service Holiday gas station.    I was there when a phone call came that the tree had fallen on my father.  He was 67 then, I was 16.   He became a paraplegic and my mother and I took care of him for the next 14 years until he passed.   We continued to operate the trailer park.   My folks got a small place in Tampa because they didn't want to sit with him in his wheel chair indoors all winter.  I helped them move there for the winters.     I worked various jobs including steel erection and then went to colleges in both the north and the south.    Eventually my dad passed and my mom got sick and passed too.   The trailer park was getting old and I was advised to close it and sell half of the thirty acres which sounded like a good deal to me.  That's how the inheritance came, and I still live in the old house and I am trying now to  restore the three large log lodges that made up the old boys camp.     I knocked down a forrest before I was 14 years old and no longer have to be a slave to someone else and I am thankful for that.      My parents are the heroes of my life and I love their memory now more than ever, above anything else.   I am proud to be financially independant now and I worked hand in hand with my parents and cared for them when they were old.   My mother didn't work much but she had teacher's retirement from a teaching career earlier in life.   I wish my dad could have had a chance to retire and to be more independant, but he was his won boss and was self employed.   The trailer park was closed in the winter so my parents had winters for themselves.  Would anyone like some pictures?

If most of you saw the lifestyle that I live you would probably go out and try to take up a collection for me.    I was raised by people who lived through two world wars and and a great depression and my parents were extremely frugal and so am I.    I fix and drive old cars and I never buy anything new and do my own repairs on just about everything.    I'm not rich but I am financially independant.   I buy clothes at Goodwill and thrift stores.

During the marriage she was my job.   It was continuously a buyme, takeme, high pressure situation, high maintenance ticket.    I remember once in Florida she woke up she said she had a nice dream where I had hired a butler to cook and clean for her and her kid.    My eyes rolled into the back of my head.

I won't talk anymore about paying for marital sex.  That's just dumb.  I have already stated that my inheritance is not an option for division without my permission.  I know nothing is free in life but this situation was ridiculous.  

Once in a while she would comment on the benifits of having a solid gold toilet like some of the rich people in Russia have.   One time it was a party when she did this.   I then offered a toast to my wife, calling her "Misses Golden Zshoppa (which means rear end):  golden toilet must mean golden zshoppa, but in reality it's a shithole!"  That was just before the divorce.   I cleaned also and did some cooking too, and I noticed the more I did the less she would do and when I inquired about this she said, "If you are doing it then I don't have to."

I agree that I did not examine her thoroughly and I only went to visit her once for 2 1/2 weeks.  That was a big booboo but my mom was in a nursing home then and I was helping care for her and I didn't want to take multiple vacations across the globe.  Her husband was a mess.  He had been stalking her for the last three years since she divorced him.  He even followed us around while I was there.  I felt sorry for her.  It seemed like she had been dealt a rough hand.  I  was intoxicated with the idea of being married, kind of like a mental block, and I was excited about how I would be able to change her life and her child's life.   The years of being alone were starting to wear on me and I was determined to find a companion and solve the dilemma of being lonely.   My initial idea was that neither of us would have to work but when her requests and demands piled up I definitely changed.    

I like that guy Bean.   His deal seems worse.   The problem with saying yes to  RW who is a digger is that no matter how much you do or give, more will always be immediately expected.   As soon as you say YES to one thing it paves the road for the next unnecessary request and/or demand.  They believe that we AM's  are obligated to spoil them because they are bestowing their valuable company upon us.    All resources are expected to be expended for their entertainment and whimsical happiness.   My ex always wanted big vacations but I told her she would have to contibute to them in some way and that stopped those requests in a hurry.  Eventually I told her that she can have whatever unnecessary things she wants as long as she gets it herself, including a different husband, please.


A RW digger will always try to manipulate through invalidation.   They will try to make you feel like the scum of the earth if there is something in it for them.  You can't be generous to them because it accelerates their expectations and then create the monster.  I know there are RW's who aren't diggers, I just haven't met any yet.  They all love to get together and talk about how stupid and naive their men are and how easy it is to make them buy things and spoil, spoil, spoil.   My ex would go around bragging to her little digger's group about all the places I took her and all the things I bought for her and then their husbands would call me up, angry at me for spoiling her because now their wives were jealous and making ridiculous demands on them.

The fact that she ws a doctor did influence my decision somewhat, thinking that if worse came to worse she could still have some skills as a nurse or something.   Getting a new medcal certificate in America is really rough, but nursing isn't so bad.   I lost interest in the sex almost from the beginning because of all the grief.

There are men in the world who are terrible examples of husbands.    My last attorney recently told me about a wealthy woman who came to his office and told a story of how a man wooed her and loved her and  married her and quickly encouraged her to buy a 600,000 dollar house.   Then he quickly filed divorce and claimed 300,000 dollars for himself according to Florida law.  I haven't heard about the outcome of that one yet but it's coming.   That is an example of a lousy husband.  Some diggers are men.


Now finally, for those here who are supporting the diggers of the world, and there are many that are not RW's,  you are one of them.        If you support this mentality then you are a member this cult.   If you support the one way philosophy then you are part of it.   Sooner or later each one of us must decide which side we will be on:  the givers or the takers.   Myself and the other people who have experienced being used continuously and over and over will take the former.  The rest of you can enjoy the company of the takers, and be one of them.   You are either with us or against us.   You can be part of the problem or part of the solution, plain, and simple.    It's your choice.   I don't call people losers.   Everybody loses something in life.   In life there are givers and takers and I married a taker and I will stay single because I'm tired of being used and being taken advantage of.   I was nice enough to release her to let her find someone who will do what she wants, when she wants,  spend out all funds and have some gratutitous sex.  To all the givers out there, paying for someone's love is a poor way to live your life.   Don't do it.  

I guess I'll have to retire from this blogging business  now  because it is exhausting.   If anyone wants to delete all of this feel free.   I just had to tell my story one more time but I probably shouldn't do it anymore because it wears me out and I'm  just one situation and  I'm sure there are many others like it.   There are some good things that came out of my experience and some of them are really great but none of the positive things were inspired by her.  

My father told me once many years ago to spend my time with women who are assets, not liabilities.    I haven't found one of those yet who is available.    He wrongly thought that my mother was a liability, but that was before he got hurt and she took care of him for 14 years.   He definitly changed his opinion before he died.

[DKMM]

Learning how to tell a RW "no" is an important skill you lack dear sir.

[gousa]

I guess it would be sufficient to say that the whole thing was one big fat mistake.
But she would have been a brat to any man who married her I was just one who didn't want to put up with it anymore.   She wanted  to be spoiled and I did some spoiling but where do you draw the line?

[Shadow]

Gousa, you are right in that some women will never be satisfied. But also understand that you made a vital mistake by marrying a stranger, and thinking that the improved life would not change her or make her better. Also you, once she married, did not comply to the idea she had, that of a very wealth and 'generous' husband. Instead you live to protect your inheritance.
There is not a lot wrong with that, as long as you make your lifestyle clear to any future prospect.

There are not many men in your situation, and I hope that your story makes it clear that picking a puppy from the RW pound without proper preparation can lead to disaster. Similarly the 'she will be with me forever because of the better life and passport' thinkers.

[gousa]

After a while my middle name became "NO".  That's what started all the fighting.
She didn't work until just before the big divorce, three years into the marriage.
My job was full time taking care of her high maintenance.  I guess it will be sufficient to say that she was very nice looking.  I really don't want to post a picture, but she turned a few heads for sure.  I turn a few heads too when my own head isn't too bloody LOL but my looks are fading as fast as hers.  LOL  I'm 47, she's 44.  I suppose I could send a picture if someone wants to send me an email.   Thanks for asking for sure.

[Shadow]

Gousa, women are looking for a provider. That means they do not expect to need to work, unless the family income needs it.
Any RW will not understand that you can buy a house with cash, but need your wife to work for daily life.
This is something that you should make clear if you ever meet a woman in the future.

[groovlstk]

Gousa made three mistakes

1) He chose the wrong women

2) He chose not to get out of what looked like a doomed marriage quickly

3) He further entangled himself financially with her as this time went by.

These are all academic, the OP's biggest mistake was in simply marrying, it's obvious from his story that he doesn't have anywhere near the emotional maturity to make things work with any woman. Such men are poster children for marriage agencies that claim RW are a quick fix to the void of loneliness. "Write our beautiful women, courtship is optional and indeed discouraged, and in a few weeks you can be on your way to filling that vacuum of emptiness in your life!"

This quote says all I need to know:

When I told her it wasn't safe for me to marry her she was already here and said she couldn't go back and started crying all day and night and wouldn't stop.

 

OK, the OP screwed up in getting the prenup, so why did he drag his fiancee from her home, family, job, and culture? This isn't a clerical error or a "my bad!", he messed with this woman's life (and her child's) as if she were a bag of groceries. When things didn't work out to his satisfaction, he blithely expects her to get on a plane and go  back and start a new life? With a young child? The "white knight" syndrome is exposed here for what it really is: a desire to make a damsel in distress feel as if she owes something to her "rescuer," who likes to think of himself as a hero but in reality is simply monumentally selfish and has nothing to offer to any women but the most desperate.

After a week of that I had had enough, grabbed the stupid prenup, made her sign it and said, "Okay we're married now, just don't be a goldigger."  She said that she wasn't and I believed it. 

So the woman he loves and planned to spend the rest of his life with weeps for an entire week at the prospect of having to start her life over again, and his reaction is to spit on the last piece of cake before he offers it to her?

I have no problem accepting that his wife may have been a gold digger, but what did the OP have to offer her other than his $? Actually, I hope she was a gold digger, because if he behaved this way to a decent woman he deserves to have his nads excised.

gousa, nothing personal, I hope things work out for you and your ex, but reading this kind of crap again and again is draining. It's no wonder that my whenever my wife tells colleagues or clients that she's married to an American the men hit on her even more, assuming that she married an idjit for material gain. 

[GreginGa]

For the record Gousa, I'm on your side and wish things wouldve worked out better for you and I also hope things get better for you in the future.  You probably did feel sorry for her. You said her mother raises chickens and sells eggs to earn a living. My wife has her own business and she knows that she needs to work so we can live the lifestyle in which we do. We travel a lot as well as with her parents when they are here. I did tell my wife in the very first letter that I ever wrote to her after having met her in the train station that I wasnt rich,but lived comfortable. I certainly dont think that just because she left her home in Russia or bumbfock Egypt or wherever that you should have to buy her a house as a consolation prize for being married for a couple of years. Not many here have walked in your shoes so I wouldnt worry too much about public opinion. Hang in there and hopefully things will get better.

[Maxx2]

I don't see gousa as a bad guy. Just someone who made a few mistakes in judgment. Most of the time the men in this process do not know that 99% of RW will not be happy living in the country or a small town. Gousa was one of these guys. It seems he has some thinking of practicality, her age being close to his as an example. As far as his maturity. Get into his position and see how you would act and what you would say. The heart is screaming at these times and it spills out over on to what you write. I am with Greg in that he shouldn't have to pay her a small fortune for a brief marriage. She'll land on her feet quickly and move on to the next guy. 

Maxx

[KenC]

I agree that I did not examine her thoroughly

Examine? You mean she didn't come with papers and a vet report?  You do not "examine" your future wife, you develop a relationship with her.  You "picked a puppy" and deserve what you got.  To be so callous with another human being is reprehensible.

 

and I only went to visit her once for 2 1/2 weeks

A whole 20 days?  Wow, why so long?  Oh that's right no papers or vet report.  Sorry, I forgot.
 

That was a big booboo but my mom was in a nursing home then and I was helping care for her and I didn't want to take multiple vacations across the globe.

If your mom was in a nursing home, why was your help necessary?  Tell the truth, did you miss your Mommy?  Bet you wish you spent more time with your wife before jumping into the first now, huh?
 

Her husband was a mess.  He had been stalking her for the last three years since she divorced him.  He even followed us around while I was there.  I felt sorry for her

.
Now there is a GREAT reason to get married: sympathy.  You (Prince Charming) saved the damsel in distress.  You accomplished your goal, why you b!tchen about it now?  Oh, you  wanted love too? 
 

It seemed like she had been dealt a rough hand.  I  was intoxicated with the idea of being married, kind of like a mental block, and I was excited about how I would be able to change her life and her child's life.

Mission accomplished!  Why you b!tching now?
 

The years of being alone were starting to wear on me and I was determined to find a companion and solve the dilemma of being lonely.   My initial idea was that neither of us would have to work but when her requests and demands piled up I definitely changed.    

It sounds like a total misjudgement on your part.  You misjudged how much it takes to maintain a marriage and a family.  BTW, $200K over 3.5 years including the purchase of the house is not an unreasonable amount of money.  You, alone applied for the position of "White Knight" and miscalculated the costs, shame on you for trying to blame your short comings on the damsel you "saved."
KenC

[KenC]

I don't see gousa as a bad guy. Just someone who made a few mistakes in judgment. Most of the time the men in this process do not know that 99% of RW will not be happy living in the country or a small town. Gousa was one of these guys. It seems he has some thinking of practicality, her age being close to his as an example. As far as his maturity. Get into his position and see how you would act and what you would say. The heart is screaming at these times and it spills out over on to what you write. I am with Greg in that he shouldn't have to pay her a small fortune for a brief marriage. She'll land on her feet quickly and move on to the next guy. 

Maxx

Gimme a break here Max!  You can't be serious.  I am very much in the "groovlstk camp" on this one.  This putz went to Russia and "picked a puppy" with absolutely no regard to human emotions.  The only thing this poor woman is guilty of is believing all the crap that goUSA told her!  He told her that she would not have to work.  He gave her everything he wanted to give her.  Read his words, Max.  He is pissed because she didn't tell him how great he was for giving her stuff.  But that was the deal he offered her from the beginning.  She accepted and then he reneged.  To blame his actions on his loneliness and weakness, just doesn't cut it here as this woman uprooted her AND HER CHILD'S life to become this man's wife.  GoUSA even says she loved him well.  At least up until the time when he could no longer perform.  And even after he stopped preforming his matrimonial duties, she STILL stayed with him!  The woman deserves to be set up in her new life without him, no matter how much that bites into the money he really cherishes more than people.
KenC

[gousa]

I am convinced that she would have stayed with me for the duration as long as I continuously submitted to her dominance.   That was her chautauqa.   What kind of a life for a husband is that?  Is that what RM have to do?  That is taboo in my part of the woods.    I kind of feel sorry for the new guy(s).   I had a marriage couselor for myself.  She said that I should proceed with my instinct of separation a divorce if I feel strongly about it.   I never stopped performing duties, but I wanted to and they did get few and far between.

Someplace I heard that the FSU has among the highest crime rates and divorce rates in the world.   Anyone else?

Yes I definitely got into this thing with little preparation or knowlege.  I don't think the amount of advice that is availiable now was available four or five years ago.   How long has this site been up?
  
I'll repeat that I believe my ex wanted to get out of Russia because of her crazy ex husband and her spoiled boy and make money on the sponsor that was her main goal in life.  I believe whoever did it was not really important to her but she did chose me from her gang of suitors, probably because I could write better and faster than they could.   She also maybe hoped that she could make someone happy but how to do that with an irresponsible bottomless one way street is beyond me.   Yes yes yes I fell into the intoxicating belief that the companion problem could be solved.  I'm through trying to solve it now.   That's just part of life that is designed to go wrong for whatever reason.  There are too many risks and too many maybes and too many pitfalls.  By the way she wrote to me first and picked me out of the lineup.   I responded to her request.

What a bunch of user lovers here.  Yes I accomplished my mission and she accomplished hers.   It is funny in a way.   Yes I am callous now but I wasn't then.   People here told me that I should have done more examination that's why I said that.  Of couse I did everything for all the wrong reasons.    Wrong is my middle name here.    I don't believe in leaving parents in a care facility that is callous and reprehensible.  I guess I'll just have to spend my time defending myself now.   Spare me from the cheap shots please.

One of my exwife's  female friends from Russia dumped her and recently I asked why and the friend replied,  "She's a user.   She asks for favors, gets them and never returns them."   I almost cheered.    I gotta get otta here.


WOW I know some people who have wives that are workahoilics and would not even think about being taken care of.   I don't mind having a dependant spouse but I would prefer that they get off the inheritance pilfering and profiteering and high maintenance ticket.     Gee I wish I could find someone who would support me while they spoil me.
My contributions in this relationship were endless until I couldn't give anymore.   I just ran out of gas from the endless overload.  She took no responsibliby for anything.  She could not structure or discipline her child.  She was mentaly unfit for a relationship if anyone was.   She let all responibilities fall to me that was her goal.  For me it was like taking care of an old person with alzheimers in a nursing home except for the ability that she could go to the bathroom by herself.   I don't hate her but  I have never observed a more useless female anywhere.   I've observed a lot of useless males, however.  Some of them have women taking care of them.

Thank you GreginGA.   Are you from Georgia?   What area?  Do you like geology?  I have some interesting geological info from Georgia.

[KenC]

GoUSA,
She wasn't "useless" when you were jumping her bones three times a week until ........um, er, you lost your desire.
 

It has been my experience that couples that do not set reasonable boundaries in the very beginning of their relationship, usually end up divorced.  You painted a pretty picture for her and she bought it.  The problem as I see it, is you didn't have a clue what it was you really wanted except to rid yourself of your lonely life.  Next time, buy a Golden Retriever not a RW!
KenC

[pitbull]

Go USA, this is how you describe your lifestyle:

"If most of you saw the lifestyle that I live you would probably go out and try to take up a collection for me.    I was raised by people who lived through two world wars and and a great depression and my parents were extremely frugal and so am I.    I fix and drive old cars and I never buy anything new and do my own repairs on just about everything.    I'm not rich but I am financially independant.   I buy clothes at Goodwill and thrift stores."

Did you expect your new RW wife to accept this lifestyle for her and her son? From what you describe, I understand you brought a doctor from a big european city to the middle of nowhere in the woods, where there isn't (in your own words) much opportunity for a career, to live in some kind of a log cabin...

Did you expect her to "never buy anything new, and her clothes at Goodwill"? This explains your nagging about your "high maintenance".. I guess you would see ANY purchase as terrible overspending, and if she actually wanted to buy a new pair of shoes at the mall rather than the thrift store - it should have been a tragedy!!!
But, seriously, buy a puppy next time you feel lonely!!

[gousa]

There seem to be a lot of people here who just aren't getting the message.
I bought so many new clothes and shoes that were never used that she was thinking about throwing them away.  She liked throwing things away.  It must have made her feel big and important. 

She lived in a southern town of about 10,000 people.  Her hospital was in a nearby town of about 75,000.    She and her son lived with her mother in her mother's little one bedroom house.   She didn't get to keep the marital condominium for some reason, probably because her divorce was her idea.   In my small hometown I have two older houses, one a three bedroom downtown the other a two bedroom on a lake and a private beach.   It's not the end of the world but you can see it from here.  She saw pictures of everything before she came.    I like cats better than dogs and I like my cat more than I like her.

 Does anybody know how to delete this entire thread?   I would like to just delete this whole mess.

[KenC]

Nah, goUSA, the thread should stay.  It is a great lesson in how "not" to do this and how some men look to blame their mistakes on anyone but themselves.
KenC

[gousa]

Yes yes yes I know I should have never done this thing and it should have been left to someone else and I certianly accept lots of the blame but she was/is still a brat and nothing will ever change that.   

[BC]

Why delete?.. we and I think even you are learning...

Let me clarify...

My wife also did not come from a family with great means.  I mentioned in another thread spending 10k+ when our baby was born. This was her second child, the first being our daughter who was born during the economic crisis in RU.  Of course mothers want the best for their children.. I'm sure she did back then and she obviously did the same now.. within the means available.. is that unreasonable?

Believe it or not both kids got a spoonful of black caviar every morning.. and I got my hand often slapped for dipping... LOL

[groovlstk]

I like cats better than dogs and I like my cat more than I like her.

Remember that next time you feel lonely and get the urge to buy a wife. People are way too much maintenance, stick to your four-legged friends.

Does anybody know how to delete this entire thread?   I would like to just delete this whole mess.

Did you come here for sympathy and expect everyone to pat you on the back and tell you that you did the right thing?

[BC]

Yes yes yes I know I should have never done this thing and it should have been left to someone else and I certianly accept lots of the blame but she was/is still a brat and nothing will ever change that.   

Lets say an artist is born.. but in a place where no canvas or oil paints are available..  Wouldn't it be natural to expect them to go a bit overboard if they moved to a city that had both in abundance?

If anything, you were totally unprepared.. and I am beginning to really hope that she is a true gold digger and only wanted your a$$ets.. this would at least comfort me that the baby did not go out with the bath water..  but you haven't yet convinced me yet.

That you do accept a good part of the blame for the demise of your relationship is commendable and shows you are able to accept critique.  That in itself is quite positive.

[Maxx2]

Gimme a break here Max!  You can't be serious.  I am very much in the "groovlstk camp" on this one.  This putz went to Russia and "picked a puppy" with absolutely no regard to human emotions.  The only thing this poor woman is guilty of is believing all the crap that goUSA told her!  He told her that she would not have to work. 
KenC

I spent the last 20 minutes reading his posts and I didn't see this. Is it there? I was also searching for his promises to her before she came and I didn't see any of those either. I may have missed them. He had responsibilities for sure. He did spend a fair amount of money on her. Drew the line on getting her a Corvette and got her another more practical car. He then bought her the second home in Florida. Cutting her off on the sex was not cool.  

From what I can believe is that they both had different expectations on her life that were never clarified before she arrived. Couldn't she lower her demands and meet him half way?

Maxx
  

[KenC]

Yes yes yes I know I should have never done this thing and it should have been left to someone else and I certianly accept lots of the blame but she was/is still a brat and nothing will ever change that.   

OK, goUSA,
Now that you admit that you are also subject to a lot of blame here, let's talk about it.  
You tell us here that she is a spoiled brat.  Who spoiled her?  It doesn't sound like she was living in the lap of luxury in a one bedroom home with her Mom and son.  Did you make promises to her that you could not fulfill?  Did you tell her it would not be necessary for her to work and then later belittle her for not contributing to the family finances?

But most important question:  What mistakes did you make in this process?
KenC

[BC]

Oh.. and by the way.. regarding your inheritance.. if as you last described it, disregard my previous remarks as it seems you did work for it and know the value of blood, sweat and tears associated with such a gift.

[BC]

From what I can believe is that they both had different expectations on her life that were never clarified before she arrived. Couldn't she lower her demands and meet him half way?

The chance to improve lifestyle is always sought after..

Decreasing lifestyle is a huge hurdle..

I submit that gousa's wife, when presented with the necessity of degrading her newly acquired lifestyle, found herself in a position where there was little, if any difference with the overall quality of life where she came from.  She did after all give up a respected job, family, friends and everything else to join him.

[Maxx2]

It is pretty hard not to spoil a RW after paying for all their basic needs of food, shelter and clothing, getting them cars and paying for the gas, oil, tires, repair and the insurance on it, redecorating the house to their taste, saving money for a trips back home with gifts for the in-laws and friends of course. Then giving them spending money and credit cards to boot. Of course this is all necessary but it is easy to cross the line and spoil them.  



Maxx